Lakshmi,Hindu goddess, exists on Earth!
The mother said in a television program that a few weeks before giving birth to Lakshmi, she had a dream which told her to build a temple to the goddess Lakshmi. Subsequently, Lakshmi was born during the "Festival of Lakshmi".
I'd hit it.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
No, and if there is I hope it's not the Judeo-Christian god. He seems like an asshole.
EwwwOriginally Posted by BABY J
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
Yes. Just got saved in December and baptized in March of this year. I am a christian.
THAT'S MY JAM!
Yes. God is real.
If you're born once, you will die twice. If you're born twice, you will die once.
True, and I am weak...so very weak.Real inspiring words there jihad
Religion is for the weak.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
yep
i think about this daily. i really dont know what too say. on one hand i pray and sometime they come true but is that god or coinsidence?
you have a old old book that meraculously has many different people speaking of god, but who wrote the book. how did all of those different people merge there stories into one book we know as the bible? why is there other religion? there cant be more than one god. someone came up with this a long long time ago and i believe it was nothing more than a scare tactic sometimes. but then i go to church sometimes and it just feels so right and real but then you have the theory of evolution. If humans evolved from aps then why are the monkeys not still evolving?
science is made up just like everything else, yes the evidence supports the facts but what are you comparing this too? there is nothing to compare it too, science changes daily people come up with new words for different things when it comes down to it life is just a wonderful thing that should not be questioned, just live it brother
What did you pray for? If it was either a yes/no thing, like passing a test or having a friend recover from an illness, then that's like a 50%/50% thing. Like praying to win a coin toss. Or was it something like praying to see a Cooke Monster impersonator tap dancing with silver shoes in the middle of a Big Lots parking lot and have the Oscar Meyer wiener mobile show up at the same time?
I bet people of other religions get the same feeling when they go to their house of worship? Does that make them both "right and real"? You can probably get the same feeling by doing other activities with people.
Apes have evolved... The same apes that are our ancestors have evolved into humans and chimpanzees. We did not come from chimpanzees, but have evolved from the same common species. So chimpanzees have evolved out of that same common ape. If you want a reference to evolution dealing specifically with chimpanzees, research the Bonobo and Common Chimpanzee. The Bonobo is a chimpanzee that lives north of the Congo River and the Common Chimpanzee is a chimpanzee that lives south of the Congo River. This seperation allowed them to evolve a bit differently.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Whats simple about this? define god? This should've been worded "Do you believe in a or multiple supreme beings"
You haven't told anyone that those are my boobs in your avatar right? Wouldn't want people going crazy or anything...I know how you get jealous
The existance of a God that is listed in the books that have been written on this planet, makes absolutely no sense.
However, I always find it funny when Athiests are sooooooo sure they're right and find people who believe in a God to be silly or ignorant, when KNOWING one doesn't exist is just as ridiculous.
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we can be certain that certain types of gods don't exist. most atheists i know of are agnostic atheists, where we might acknowledge that one might exist, but if it does exist it isn't really a god at all, more like an addition to nature.
please elaborate on this?
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
Is it also rediculous to not believe in Unicorns? Are you sooooooo sure they don't exist? Using your logic I expect that you believe in every fantasy creature.
Most rational people however don't say something is true because we can't proove it isn't true. We usually require evidence before we say something exists, not the inverse.
i believe in God, i have been saved for many years now.
Einstien and Hawking and other scientists use the word "god" many times in their writings. Hawking was straight up atheist, has said he was atheist, and his use of the word god means an abstract principle of order and harmony, a set of mathematical equations, as does Eisnstien's god.
Their god is simply just nature, the reason why Alkaline Earth Metals like to ionicly bond with the Halogens. As in why the speed of light is 300,000 kilometers per second and not 500,000 kilometers per second. As in why velocity is the derivative of position and the integral of acceleration. As in why a force at 90 degrees to intended direction of movement produces no work (Force*distance*cosθ=work). That is nature, that is what many famous scientists refer to as "god".
Now the equation "dv/dt = a" doesn't seem like a god does it? Your right, its just nature. It might as well say on dollar bills "IN DV/DT=A WE TRUST" because that is the only thing an atheist might even refer to as god. Just imagine that on our currency: "IN F=MA WE TRUST". "F=MA BLESS OUR SOLDIERS". "dQ-dW=dU BLESS AMERICA".
These equations do not have a conscious, nor a personality or plan, they do not even know they exist. They are simply equations of nature. The only thing most atheists will even refer to as god will be the thing that makes those equations valid, which is just nature. I believe in nature, but I don't believe in god. Any type of god. Nature is sometimes referred to as a product of a god, that may be true, but all we have is nature, there is no divine thing here. God can not exist in nature. All there is is nature. Therefore god cannot exist. All that exists is nature. What if one said, "What if god is nature?" then you are just using the word god as a synonym for nature. Which is what a lot of famous scientists do. Nature is not divine. It is just nature.
I hope I elaborated enough.
Last edited by zimabog; 10-04-2009 at 11:51 AM.
Will you marry me? I promise to marry you back.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
I like this post,
BUT... you forget something. The only reason why those equations work is because variables and the functions are grounded in an absolute. The variables as you state can be defined in numerous ways, but the not so easily understood principle of the whole thing is the WHY those equations work everywhere.
Why does this matter? Well...
You used the name Hawking in that post. In his book "The Big Bang and Black Holes" He wrote about the perceptive conscience that controls our universe. He wrote about this and personified it. He did this because even in his observations he admitted that there was something else going on in our universe that the purest form of the scientific method could not explain. Origins, structure, and even the predictability and universal rules and how they are what allows science and logic to work.
After writing this he went back and wrote an excerpt. He changed his mind and wanted to edit some of the passages, because he did not want his conclusions to be evidence for a God or a creative conscience. He admittedly said that his observations led him to state something that he did not believe and did not want to promote.
I point this out because the truth is that equations present conscious origin. No equations or formula to calculate anything originates from nowhere. Things that "just happen" have no equation to represent them. The design of triangles, the formulaic expressions for circles and spheres, and pyramids, these all have a function that is created and designed. The formulas ONLY work because the objects were designed.
Circles do not form naturally in our universe. Squares do not form naturally, triangles, do not form naturally. So if you want to discuss the formulaic expressions which are universal to our human understanding in mathematics then you need to understand that these things are product of a conscious designer and not circumstance. Likewise, formulas are a product of the design of these objects. The objects do not occur naturally.
When speaking of natural phenomenon. It is not to be forgotten that the same rules apply. The only reason we can understand the speed of light or the properties of alkaline metals is because they follow rules. They have constants. The question is why...why is it that these things all act within a certain spectrum if our universe is simply the product of disorder and chaotic probability. All it takes is for a few of these things to be without "rule" for the formula to never work. For instance, the speed of light, slowing itself down or the rules of mass and gravity deciding that they do not want to work this time.
We do not see that. And we have yet to give a logical counter claim to why things function this way if their is nothing defining the rules with which they can and will function. Hawking observed this. Dawkins observes this but also refuses to name this "process".
My point is the further you go into the scientific hole, its not the more you understand about our universe, its the more you realize that you DO NOT know what is going on and that the pieces of the puzzle are not simplistic. The presence of our universe methods can only at its root serve to point to a universe logic. Logic does not exist without conscious. What would you define this conscious as. Do you think it is just random that the thousands upon thousands of equations that we have developed work?
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
This relates directly to the popular "blind watchmaker" debate (except we are not talking about evolution). I do not agree that equations present conscious origin. You seem to be saying that the universe cannot exist without a creator to ultimately create it. This is highly debatable as it is impossible to prove that the universe even had an ultimate 1st creation (not talking about any cyclic destruction/construction that may be present).
So what came first? The formula or the idea of object?
I fail to see how this helps your argument. You say these shapes do not form naturally (many shapes do though). But wouldnt a naturally forming shape be product of the designer you describe?
Are you saying that in a universe without a designer formulas would not work? As in one moment gravity hold me down, but another moment, with nothing changed, gravity throws me into the air?
"The question is why...why is it that these things all act within a certain spectrum if our universe is simply the product of disorder and chaotic probability."
If the universe had different operating formulas, its not that there would be no universe, its just that the universe would be different than the universe we know now.
Its simple, if there were no operating formulas, you would not exist, but there is always existence. I'll use human evolution as an example. People say, "but existence of homo sapiens, our 5 fingers on a hand, our brains, our legs... it is evidence of design." But its totally selective randomness, human evolution could have as easily produced a creature with 10 fingers on hand, tails, 4 legs, green skin, and babies are born from hatched eggs.. and we would STILL call ourselves human! If the universe had different formulas, it would still be the universe, just a different universe.
So what came first in sports universe, the rules or the actions? Can not actions define rules?
I am in extreme disagreement in that you say logic cannot exist without conscious. How does consciousness exist before logic? Who designed god? If god is without cause/designer, who's to say the rest of the universe isn't?
"blind watchmaker". The blind watch maker scenario assumes that I do not believe that the God that created this universe has revealed himself to us. I do. I do NOT believe that we simply happened upon this universe and all that is in it and are seeking to justify its order. I believe that God is revealing himself to us and the advancement of understanding of him will grow our ability to understand the universe that we live in.
I would say that I believe the formula or the rule of how that specific object/idea functions came first. If not, at the onset of its existence it would have no rule and no properties of which to identify it. This is because I do believe in absolutes. Now if those rules were different, the universe would still function under rules. Its not what the rules are that I am pointing to, its the origin of such rules. If there is a multi-verse. Each multi-universe would function under its own set of rule or its existence would cease. Even if the rules are different than those that we hold in our own.
Think about other planets. Even though gravity, temperature, etc is different based on different planets, we still have to note that should some basic principles not be established then those bodies would cease to exists.
So the idea is not, WHAT the rule is, it is that the rule exists and that the order dominates that physical existence or such physical existence cannot be known. we could not do any form of science, hard or soft, if we did not have rules that govern.
if there was no operating formula, or understandable order. Then how would I exist? How would planets exists. How would gravity exist, how do we measure the speed of light. My point is that.Its simple, if there were no operating formulas, you would not exist, but there is always existence. I'll use human evolution as an example. People say, "but existence of homo sapiens, our 5 fingers on a hand, our brains, our legs... it is evidence of design." But its totally selective randomness, human evolution could have as easily produced a creature with 10 fingers on hand, tails, 4 legs, green skin, and babies are born from hatched eggs.. and we would STILL call ourselves human! If the universe had different formulas, it would still be the universe, just a different universe.
In my study of evolution, I have come upon one conclusion. It is definitely not understood. Evolution in and of itself is described as being extremely ordered (dawkins) yet extremely randomized (Gould). But to say it simple I do not believe in natural selection theory and survival of the most fit etc etc. Human societies have already demonstrated the errors in that. Especially in humans. I believe in genetic combination that allows our changes to be modified based on our genetic history, but to get back to my thoughts, its really not about what we call ourselves...its that we have the ability to define ourselves.
I do not believe actions can define rules. If so we are in trouble. If the misgivings of human interaction defines the rules of which humanity should function then where would we be...Stalin, Hitler, Christian and atheistic fundamentalists, would all be justified in their actions under the principle that the actions of many were in sync therefore they were justified. As I said before, I believe there are moral absolutes...I believe that they should not be confused with legality because that is different. But rules and actions are not even on the same plane.
Rules and consequences fall under law. Laws can be followed or they can be broken, but what MUST exist is consequences for breaking those laws. Without consequences there is no justice in law. For instance, two pieces of matter cannot occupy the same space...they can try to break that law, but one or both of them will be destroyed in the process. Or they can avoid contact in obedience to that law.
Are not their illogical people in the world? Logic is the ability to use ones consciousness. Demonstrate to me a universe where logic exists and there is no conscious to understand that logic? Without a consciousness, what would be perceived as logic? If anything they MUST coexist. but logic can never come first as a conscious dictates what is logical.I am in extreme disagreement in that you say logic cannot exist without conscious. How does consciousness exist before logic? Who designed god? If god is without cause/designer, who's to say the rest of the universe isn't?
In your definition of God. refer to previous posts. I believe that God has demonstrated to us that HE is that which exists not just in our universe but before our universe and eternally. This is demonstrated to me in that upon what I view as his revelation to us, he has demonstrated his ability to function outside of our rules. I am running out of time, but I can revisit this for elaboration later. Simply put, God is defined as eternal. This means that his conscious is not locked in our space time, therefore he does not have to follow (he could not follow) the understandings of causality that we place upon that which is within this creation. Much the same way that you say...could something outside our universe exist and not be subjected to our universal laws.
Good discussion. I hope not to confuse and I welcome questions.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
Maybe I am misunderstanding you but it seems you are saying rules/order = conscious design? Along the lines of:
(a) There can be no order without design
(b) There is order in the universe
(c) Therefore the universe is designed
I would argue that if this is your logic, (a) is not proveable and thus can not be used as a basis for proving existence of a God. If I am misinterpreting you then please let me know.
Additionally, I'd be interested to hear why you think humans prove that natural selection is false but maybe that has to be another thread.
we agree on there must be rules, its the creation of rules is what this boils down to. which is impossible to determine.
How have human societies demonstrated errors in natural selection?
Is it because of the existence of fat people or something? As in who would reproduce with a fat ugly person?
I was more talking in line that rules = formulas of nature.
Is it not possible to close your eyes, and write a bunch of numbers and symbols and + and - signs without even thinking of them. Or write numbers, symbols, and math operators on flash cards and throw them into the air and where ever they land is the formula that will be used.
So why is it a "he" and not an "it"?
So you have just demonstrated that if there is a god, there can be no miracles, prayers, divine intervention... because all those must operate within the universe's rules.
no
I do believe in god.....no, i dont know what he/she/it looks like, but i definately do believe. I dont consider myself to be a part of any denomination, but i know the bible and i know what i believe.
i believe in G.O.D 100% all the way!!!! he's my man!!! he helps me out with everything!!!
"When life knocks you down on your knees, god's just asking you to pray"
true story
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Damn God has a SERIOUS ego problem.
"I'm God. Let me create some things. I'll then create some other things to ensure that those things live... ohhhh... 85 years or so. I'd let them live longer, but shit I get tired of the same things stroking my ego. I need new things to be born so that they can stroke it as well. During that time on this rock, those things that I created MUST tell me that I'm the shit and praise me. And if those fuckers don't - I'll kill 'em. Why?
B/c I'm GOD bitch!!"
Makes sense to me.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
lol. you just figuring this out?
^^ Oh I've known it since I was 10. LOL
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Damn, I was prolly fucked up when I made this thread. Hahahahaha.
God is questionable....
ill find out when i die. as far as im concerned the only place you go when you die is 6ft under, and everything else becomes what it was before you were born, nothing.
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i use to I guess. god was never real to me as far back as i can remember. and now the concept of prayer and god is elusive. i believe in satan more than i do god. at least evil makes more sense than this "good" thats suppose to come out of existing.
negative
"I remember the first time I had sex – I kept the receipt."
i sure do, no doubt about it!
You have to differentiate between the arguments for the existence of god and arguments over the validity of organized religion.
As far as god goes, the argument is moot.
God, as most people use the term, refers to an all-powerful being, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, etc. The human mind is a finite thing, incapable of conceiving of the infinite, so how can one begin to prove or disprove the existence of an infinite being?
It cannot be said for certain either way, so arguing about it is pointless.
Now arguing about the validity of organized religion--christ, if people can't figure out when they are lying to themselves, how do you expect them to know when they are hearing the truth?
Man is fallible. Man wrote the bible. Man is capable of lies and deceit, and of being deceived.
Why trust in the works of man, when he tells you the work is "of god?" Everything is of god, and being of god makes the bible no more a source of truth than Beowulf, or Le Morte De Arthur, or any other myths. Take Scientology. It has fiercely dedicated followers that believe what is an obvious pack of poorly written lies put together by a failed Sci-Fi author. What kind of horseshit is that?!
top 5
"get with the Gs, or get on yo knees"
^^ Me likes the new guy.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
i would agree with furry rabbit....except, the bible is not man made. it IS the Word of God given through the Holy Spirit to men to write down. the Holy Bible is valid, truth, and infallible. i say this with these points. the Holy Bible is by far the greatest work of literature ever. if one ACTUALLY takes the time to sit down and read it through you can see that it, being written by several different authors at different times can not be copied. no man in that time had the know how or the knowledge to write a book that doesnt contradict itself from begining to end and that is been relevant to each generation for thousands of years, and then come the prophecies, they are not vague in meaning and cannot be applied to any situation, they are descriptive and up to this point dead on accurate, just look at the world around you and you will see what im talking about. the mark of the beast for one, "and he caused everyman to recieve a mark to buy and sell goods" (short version) exactly where this world is headed to, an implantable chip that will hold all your information and allow you to buy and sell
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The bible was written by flawed humans. A story to keep humans from doing horrible things to eachother. Everyone interprets the bible differently, and this is clearly obvious. It was humans attempt at passing some morals on to others. In such brutal times, the only thing that could get through to people was the fear of some horrible shit happening to them by a powerful evil monster with his own torture dungeon to keep you, and being good would be rewarded with heaven.
Passing morals onto dumbshit people is good, taking these crazy-ass magical stories as anything but a crazy-ass magical story used to instill fear apon a developing world of savages is your own poor judgement or the poor judgement of the people that forced all this bullshit into your young developing brain.
Does "God" have anything to do with the "bible god" or whatever scripture you have been raised with? Doubtful, as humans have proven themselves to be liars. We are at a point that humans can be quite good and moral without thinking you "need" to be for fear of eternal damnnation.
I am generally a good moral person that puts others before myself. I feel, whatever happens to me when I die is the same thing that happens to every human of every religion, no matter how deep their faith.
Can I prove it to be true? Of course not.
Can anyone prove it to be false? Of course not.
top 5
"get with the Gs, or get on yo knees"
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