i do not believe in something greater. i wouldnt be an atheist if i did.Originally Posted by Incontt
i do not believe in something greater. i wouldnt be an atheist if i did.
LOL...
Man - there is a lot of win in here. But definitely more lose. LOL
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
In opposite scope of my post #219:
If you research quantum mechanics and read about electrons, positrons, quarks, protons, bosons, ect... Then you also know that there are things so inversely sized to the thousand lightyear wide celestial objects I mentioned that you could say their existence is irrelevant in our day to day life. But on the contrary, for if these subatomic did not exist then the universe would be an infinite vacuum and not filled with the matter we know of today. The sole fact that atoms can share electrons to form a covalent bond is so important that practically everything to use today, even your own body would not exist. Something that is less than .1% of the entire mass of the atom its part of, yet the atom could practically not exist without it.
So we humans could feel like those 3,000 lightyear wide space objects compared to atoms. What does this scope of reality say to me? It says that even if there is a god/creator, it is completely not necessary to do the silly things religious people do. It, if exists, can't answer, or even hear prayers. It, if exists, does not have gender. It, if exists, can not do miracles. It, if exists, can not have an image. It, if exists, does not and can not judge you.
It, if exists, can not exist here.
So why call it god? If anything, call it nature. Nature is not divine, it is nature.
I'm an atheist.
exactly....christianity is THAT funny. time to go kill the adulterers
Last edited by Incontt; 07-13-2009 at 09:30 PM.
slower than you
the ignorance you have amazes me....i hope you dont approach your car with the same mindset
MINE IS RUNNING AND WILL DRAG YOURS. god must love me more than you. its all in gods plan though.
I built my own car because I have the intelligence and skill to do so. You can't say the same.
oh yea..41000 children died todaY from hunger....yay god.
slower than you
obviously this thread has gotten out of hand. the people arguing against the existence of God have not studied Him or christianity. its funny i heard people say before that christianity is nothing but brainwashing people into believing what they believe....kinda sounds the same to me as when people argue that there cant be a God because science cant prove Him or disprove Him. so for all you out there that dont care to search yourself and use the methods or sociology, philosophy, psychology, and social sciences to find truth i say to you, keep living your life on beliefs that other people have pounded into your head and keep living in your close-minded in a box way of thinking. i myself used to not know what to believe untill i searched and found God. i am free now from the world view that has been implanted in us since we first start school.
yojimbo you make some very strong arguements i have to give you that. especially the ones on evolution. you agreed in your above statements that evolution is a process of life. please explain to me then where that life originated. evolution doesnt explain that. you also stated that the earth is a living organism and that microorganisms have existed since the begining. please explain to me how those microorganisms became mountains, trees, grass, water, humans, animals, ect...all from the same microoganisms? and its not a possibility for an almighty all powerful God to make man from dust? i as a christian do believe in some form of evolution and i do believe in natural selection. i believe God gave all creatures the instinct to survive and adapt. hence natural selection. i believe to say that a big bang and evolution created everything and that the possibility of God doing it being imposible is a very close-minded and elementary way of thinking. i believe that God and science ( some form of evolution and adaptation) can co-exist. i believe in both. science alone falls short on explaining where everthing came from and i believe thats where God comes in.
as far as you saying that God enjoys suffering...no where in the bible does it state this. somethings happen cuz of outside influences( chemicals, environment, ect).
and you made a very strong point for my side of the debate...why do people try to put God into their understanding? how can we mere humans try to comprehend something so awesome? He is above our explanation and understanding.ere's the thing - i can't define him. if he is god we can't imagine him. he'd be that great that i couldn't even begin to start making up his figure or how long is hair would be somethings should just be left alone.
... exactly. for what? people should just focus on being good and call it a day.
but noooo the church wants to create an image and go by that
which is probably not even what god would look like.
for real i mean someone who could snap his fingers and create a new planet wears some old clothes and has long hair and resembles a human-being? yea right.. if i were to picture him he'd be some crazy lookin ball of light...
and speak to you through some strange alien type of way --- possibly telekinesis(not sure what you would actually call it) or something.
oh... and i'll reply to the rest of your post tomorrow. I gotz to bounce
i dont understand how your story of murder fits with drinking bloodhere is another thing I do not understand. My wife's father is a preacher, I heard him talk about "if i pick up a squirt gun and pull the rigger and a bullet comes out and kills someone, I am guilty of murder by law, but God would forgive me: I did not know it would kill them I only thought to get them wet. however: if i pull the trigger on a real gun and water comes out and the person gets wet then by law i am free to go but in God's eyes I am a murderer, since I thought it would kill them." now... if drinking blood is an abomination to God... wouldn't drinking a substitute be just as heinous? you are drinking it because it symbolizes his blood. therefore: drinking blood. __________________. but Jesus said to eat of his "body" and drink of his "blood" as a symbol. doing this means you accept Christs broken body (bread) and his holy blood (wine, juice, ect) as a sacrifice for your sins and you accept Him. Drinking blood is an abomination...nowhere did Jesus command them to literally drink His blood and eat His flesh. its called symbolism. the people that did actually eat flesh and drink blood used it as a pagan cerimony to worship false gods. That is why God said it was an abomination because we are to worship and obey the ONE TRUE GOD not lifeless false idols.
Do people still worship the sun, moon, and wind?
Most likely not.
One can say that god is just what they can't explain or don't know.
When a lightning storm comes do people say "oh its just water molecules rubbing against each other producing massive amounts of static electricity until it finally shoots to a ground source." or do they say "its zeus being mad."
So if there comes a point in history when everything people ever wanted to know becomes known and every action of nature becomes explainable. What place is there for a god?
i dont know if that will ever happen
there are actually couple of religion and beliefs that people have that they worship the sun, moon, wind, earth, fire, water, etc... Some even worship gods & goddesses.
there is more than just Christianity & agnostic/atheism. if you believe in roman /greek culture, you could say zeus is mad and throwing lightning bolts. people probably have never seen these people or i mean higher beings, but they believe because a bunch of people have made drawings, statues, writings, etc. that is the same as what happened with Christianity. You just need a following to help people believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
Thats actually part of the problem with placing too many eggs on science...it is a process of observation and even in our understanding of things we typically only end up with more questions.
For instance: how does a car work.
well it has an engine...combustion...carbon...fuel...man foot on the pedal... but then you start going from one question to hundreds. So we do not see the number of questions declining in science we see them multiplying. Many of them we think we will be able to answer, but many of them we KNOW we will NOT be able to answers...like the exact age of the earth, or the exact age of the universe. The only reason science can give account for these things now is because there used to be an understanding the SCIENCE IS NOT EXACT because everything cannot be reduced to numbers.
another example is the numerous versions of evolution and different theories that people have on that. Some say its specific selection, some say it is adaptation, some say its random mutation...and more...but it is NOT exact and the different schools of thought are all continuing their studies with their own beliefs in the foundation...this will most certainly yeild different results.
Yojimbo...WHAT THE CRAP?Thats going to take half an hour to read!
but i did catch thisAbiogenesis is being worked on in a lab right now. They have gotten as far as amino acids,(which are the building blocks of life). It is in a process that is much like the early stages of the evolutionary argument as of the middle of the 1900's. I will let you look it up.the bible speaks of adam being created by dust well that just doesn;t seem plausible because dust doesn't contain dna, organ-signs or cells that give a human the ability to grow and mature.
it's not a living thing...
I don't necessarily doubt evolution, I am just going to error on the side of caution because I realize that if we are to understand science we have to realize that even now our understanding of evolution or the processes of life are limited.when you take 4 billion years into account the possibilities of you evolving are great... life and living things do not remain the same -- things change -- time changes -- conditions change -- all of the changes that occur affect a beings survival instinct and forces it to adapt and CHANGE.
if you're so familier with biology you should know that microorganisms have existed since the earth was created -- they are the building blocks to life. good or bad they provide life, they, were the first signs of life on earth NOT adam or eve.
tell me... do you think the earth is an organisms? i think that it is. although hard to comprehend it's existence - I don't see why earth couldn't be a living organism, since everything in the cosmos has a birth and death sequence...
sometimes I feel that homosapiens aren't that homo after all...
by this i mean the latin term for wise or smart. compared to less complicated organisms -- we're the only animals that give a fuck about any of this.
why?
The earth cannot be a living organism based on the human definition of life. But you are trying to get philosophical. In doing so you are making another point of mine.
Your question ofcan only be answered philosophically and philosophically our universe had a singular origin, the logic we use cannot be defined by evolution, and our moral code has to be defined by something other than our individual chemical processes.we're the only animals that give a fuck about any of this.
why?
This is one of the big points that I make...science is good, but it cannot function without the knowledge and understanding of history, philosophy, and some understanding of culture because all these things blend together.
The reason I believe we are the only ones that care is because we are wired to, something inside of us says that we are responsible, and you are coming extremely close to arguing a point in Genesis where God gives man the responsibility of taking care of this world....but that is philosophical and not scientific, and the question you asked cannot be answered with science because it is not numerical. Philosophy pics up where science and history cannot fill in the gaps. Religious faith should be based off of a compilation of all of these things and then some.
Your response actually backed up my statement. Thank you.
first off...God has no image. He came down as flesh(human form) as Jesus Christ. second..we wont get to the point that we can explain everything. the way things are going on in the world these days we will surely wipe ourselves out or Jesus will come back. either way humanity is in its last days whether you believe that God will come and judge us or since we are all messed up we kill ourselves off through nuclear war. and to buttons....
christianity was not born cuz of statues drawings ect...there is historical proof from non christian believers who wrote of Him and His miracles here are a few exaples.
Cornelius Tacitus,Flavius Josephus,Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian. there are also numerous writings from jewish historians and philosophers that wrote about Jesus the man and the miracles He did but from a non believer point. there is no arguing that a man named Jesus was born and started a ministry and performed great things and preached and was crucified and that christianity was founded by Him. its faith that He was God in flesh and the same God of the jews that christians believe.
i swear the Devil came to my house and turned my TV on and i have proof.... does that make it true? damn. you know how many people have said they've seen ghosts, witches, etc?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
these were greek/roman and jewish writers that didnt believe the teachings of Jesus. they thought he was a demon himself and used witchcraft or they just said He was a good teacher of good morals. they had no reason to write about Him but to give an account of history. with your way of thinking buttons how do you know that george washington was real? how do you know any historical figure( licoln, julius ceasar, ect...) or any other person before tv, radio, internet, pictures were invented were real? you know because credible historians and philosophers wrote about these people. here let me try your mind frame. i believe that humans came around 200 years ago because thats the only physical proof we have of them. if i can see a picture of the person or a video than i know they were real. in that case i dont know if my great great great great grandfather was real because i never met him in person and i dont have any pictures of him.
so just because they have a different belief they should be discredited? right. here is historical proof of many religions being true. just get over the fact people believe in something other than what you believe in.these were greek/roman and jewish writers that didnt believe the teachings of Jesus. they thought he was a demon himself and used witchcraft or they just said He was a good teacher of good morals. they had no reason to write about Him but to give an account of history. with your way of thinking buttons how do you know that george washington was real? how do you know any historical figure( licoln, julius ceasar, ect...) or any other person before tv, radio, internet, pictures were invented were real? you know because credible historians and philosophers wrote about these people. here let me try your mind frame. i believe that humans came around 200 years ago because thats the only physical proof we have of them. if i can see a picture of the person or a video than i know they were real. in that case i dont know if my great great great great grandfather was real because i never met him in person and i dont have any pictures of him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
I dont know about you guys but I can not wait to get to heaven and get my flying horse. I dont know why we cant have a cars are planes or why we can not fly ourselves. but we got smelly flying horses at least.
haha god = joke.
People believe in god like children believe in Santa. One day you gotta grow up and realize you are on your own.
i have no problem with what other people believe. i have given bilbical, scientific, and historical evidence that there was an intelligent designer. video below for more evidence. what proof is there of other religions being true?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl9fO...aynext_from=PL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq9pO...om=PL&index=36
i would also like you to explain something....how did gravity evolve?
gravity doesn't evolve, it is not a form of life... gravity exists due to massive congregations of molecules in a vacuum. you can observe a similar effect with bubbles and water... bubbles will tend to float together and form clusters
Objects in Mirror Appear to be losing.
i know that knowing everything is impossible, its a just a rhetorical question to get you to see that we tend to call the unknown as a god.
The reason Christmas is on Dec 25 is because so many other religions have special holidays nearing the same day as well. It has nothing to do with divinity. It has to do with the winter solstice. The winter solstice has the longest night, therefore after that the days gradually get longer. It is a "birth of the sun" event that many many religions of history have stories to accommodate it.
you know what i have heard nothing but bashing on God and christianity. i have a couple questions for you all that dont believe that there is a God and for those that believe there is something but its not God.
1- why is it so farfetched and impossible for there to be a God that created everything and cares for us?
2-why is evolution the right explanation and the only one? why cant God (intelligent design and creationism) coexist with science?
3-what if all of you are wrong? what if there is a God you will one day have to answer to? what then?
if me and every other christian out there are wrong and anyone who believes in God is wrong then at worst we lived a pure life not being selfish and loving others and then we just die. if your wrong then thats a whole different story now isnt it?
"So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end, it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator? (pp. 156 - 157 of Brief History of Time)" - Stephen Hawking
"Perhaps the world is not made. Perhaps nothing is made. Perhaps it simply is, has been, will always be there. A clock without a craftsman." - Dr. Manhattan
It is possible for there to be a creator. But as I say again: In the scope of everything, we are nothing. We are simply a complex chain of carbon and amino acids. We are no different in chemical structure than other animals. The same thing that happens when a plant, ant, or cockroach dies also happens to us. A god, if exists, whether a deity or pantheistic, must obey the laws of the universe. That means acceleration MUST ALWAYS be dv/dt; that is the derivative of velocity with respect to time. Conservation laws ALWAYS APPLY. And heat energy ALWAYS goes from an area of higher heat to an area of lower heat. Such as you can't extract heat from an icecube to heat up your coffee. Impossible.
A god entity can't change the rules of physics. So hoping that a god entity cares for you by saving your life in a car crash, giving you a 100% on a quiz, or by allowing you to live a little bit longer when you have AIDS or cancer... impossible.
A heaven or hell is impossible to exist. According to evolution, humans evolved from lower level life forms. Such as walking fish, a rodent looking thing, even single celled organisms. Even a sperm is a single cell, and it has life, it swims. A plant, a single cell organism, or even a sperm or an egg cell. Those things don't have brains. How can you judge something on wrong and right when it doesn't even have a brain? A walking fish, an rodent, a cockroach. All these things are animals such as us. Those creatures do not have the ability to be judged according to the way we think we are judged by a god entity.
We are a continuation of the lineages of such creatures. So how can a heaven or hell exist back a billion years ago? Can you judge a single celled organism or simple sea plankton on being right or wrong? No.
If are are refering to something like 'intelligent evolution' which is what a lot of people believe, then I would respond with the question: Why?2-why is evolution the right explanation and the only one? why cant God (intelligent design and creationism) coexist with science?
Why would a god entity make the primates of the genus Pan seperate into Common Chimpanze (who live specifically north of the Congo River) and the very very tiny bit different Bonobo (who live specifically south of the Congo River)? And what would the purpose of having differnent Finch bird phenotypes on each of the islands of the Galapogos? If there was a god driven evolution, you would think it would make it so girls don't have to shave and men to not have nipples.
Then it will say "You lived your life, congratulations. Now have a cooke."3-what if all of you are wrong? what if there is a God you will one day have to answer to? what then?
nope, because atheists can "live a pure life and not be selfish and love others". If a a god is that narsocisstic and egotistic to not allow people who lived a good life to get into a heaven... then fine. I don't like living with narsocisstic egotistic assholes anyway.if me and every other christian out there are wrong and anyone who believes in God is wrong then at worst we lived a pure life not being selfish and loving others and then we just die. if your wrong then thats a whole different story now isnt it?
we are the only ones with a conscience and morals and the ability to logically think hence we are the only ones that will be judged. and if a creator created the universe, the laws, and everything else then the creator Himself is not subject to those laws. He is above them since He had the ability to create them. and i was not refering to "intelligent evolution". God spoke everything into existence. what you see around today is the result of natural selection where only the strong survived and the weak species died off. as far as why an athiest wouldnt get to heaven even tho you lived a good life...because the creator God is holy without blemish. He created us to be the same but we failed. so He gave us a list of how to live life so we can be Holy thru Him...its called the bible. The creator God also created us to worship Him. when you dont worship Him and believe Him and live your life according to His word and accept Him as the Lord of your life then you are denying Him and He will deny you. good works are nothing compared to Gods holiness. and they are not enough to get you to eternal life. if the bible was just a book on being a good human then works alone could save you. but thats not the case. we are ALL sinners and the wagers of sin is death (hell). its only through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross and through His Holy blood that we have grace. in a time not too far away God will reveal Himself to all. the book of revelations is playing out as i am typing this and the world will see that it is going to change. every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. you put too much of a limitation on God and believe only what you hear instead of using your own mind and searching yourself for the truth. you say christians are brainwashed but i beg to differ. i say you all are the ones following a set plan set by men to keep you in control like good pets and do as they will. free your self with the only thing or only one that can truly give you freedom. May the name of the God of the christians and the only saving name under heaven and earth be praised forever Jesus Christ!!! God bless
geoff, have you ever heard of the mirror test?
There are other creatures out there who have the ability to solve problems and think, and can even pass the mirror test.
How so?the book of revelations is playing out as i am typing this
I didn't just hear it, I have 'used my own mind' and found these things to be true. Its quite hypocritical and ironic you said such a thing.and believe only what you hear instead of using your own mind and searching yourself for the truth
So you say scientists and researchers have a secret plan to control us all?i say you all are the ones following a set plan set by men to keep you in control like good pets and do as they will.
I was pretty sure it was the powerful bankers who were doing that.
Please try this experiment on the 2nd law of thermodynamics, which has to do with entropy. Take an icecube and place it next to something warm. Does the icecube stay the same temprature? Does the icecube get colder?
No. That rule can not change ever. Thank you scientist Rudolf Clausius for showing this. You can try this experiment while praying that the heat from the icecube (yes an icecube does have some heat energy) will flow to the warmer object.
no other creature has the ability to logically think. yes you can teach pets tricks and monkeys how to problem solve but in the end they are still irrational beasts. and the book of revelations is playing out by the wars, famine, lack of morals in the world, a one world religion, a one world government, a mark(verichip is the first step) false preaching of the gospel, wide spread of knowlege and technology, falling away of believers, murder, greed, envy, the list goes on. the greatest trick the devil did was to convince mankind that God doesnt exist. the people these days are being brought up to believe what the people in power tell them too so when they take over there will not be a fight. the bible talks of this aswell. we are a society that no longer has morals and believes we can do whatever we want. we are cattle being controlled by the elect few that run this world. the bible also speaks of this.
please explain how the 2nd law of thermodynamcs has anything to do with my God.
that is not Gods fault. that is the cause of those in power in those countries that are selfish and ignore the people. dont blame God for the cruelty of humanity.
not his fault but he could prevent it. more excuses for a supposedly all powerful all knowing god. what does letting 41000 kids a day starve to death accomplish.
slower than you
yeehaw
slower than you
Why do i feel like kicking infants after reading these posts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
17 orphans lost their foster parents to robbers... where does GOD fit in there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
You are wrong. And I know that even if i show you a bunch of evidence, you will dismiss it.
So how are we the chosen species and not Homo Erectus?
And the 2nd Law of Thermodyamics is a law that can not be broken.
Last edited by zimabog; 07-14-2009 at 07:07 PM.
why would He want to change the laws He created. and as far as the suffering in the world its caused by men not God. He doesnt step in to prevent it cuz its the evil in men that do this and He doesnt punish these people cuz of grace. just know that these children are going to a better place with no suffering and no pain.
So you agree that your god can not perform miracles?
Because that's what a miracle is... a breach of the laws of nature.
"He doesnt step in to prevent it cuz its the evil in men that do this and He doesnt punish these people cuz of grace."
So your saying your god is not benevolent? And you are saying that the evil men are people of grace?
lol...they are in a better place? no they are dead...done. They suffered from starvation while god watches his ant farm? it so funny to read this stuff. Its like watching kids defend santa as being real.
post above me is spot on.
slower than you
YOU ARE TELLING ME SANTA ISN'T REAL?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
well i THINK he isnt real....he is nicer than god though. he cant stop the murder and crime against the kids but he will bring all the good ones a toy. Not the promise of a pie in the sky but actually brings the toys every year
slower than you
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