Do you believe in God? Simple question

[geoff]

ok let me ask you this. there have been numerous accounts of miraculous medical breakthroughs and unexplainable healings. how does your scientific method react to these? how does your scientific method explain a 90 year old woman getting pregnant, a 4 year old boy having cancer but it dissapearing even before kemo, or countless other miracles. my point is that science only goes so far....then comes God. not that science and God cant coexist.

[StreetHazard]

ok let me ask you this. there have been numerous accounts of miraculous medical breakthroughs and unexplainable healings. how does your scientific method react to these? how does your scientific method explain a 90 year old woman getting pregnant, a 4 year old boy having cancer but it dissapearing even before kemo, or countless other miracles. my point is that science only goes so far....then comes God. not that science and God cant coexist.

I hate to do this but I will let these guys answer all of this for me because your question is almost identical. Sound quality is not that good but it saves me time that I have already invested to much of on this topic, that in my mind is completely put to rest.

And like those guys in the video are dealing with, you or anyone else has yet to offer prove of the existence of god. The only thing you offer is more questions that science is giving you answers for, but you are choosing to ignore.

[geoff]

yeah you should hate to do that because that didnt answer my question. i asked you how can and if the scientific method can be used to explain miracles of healing? please put the scientific method to this...

my grandmother when she was 35 years old had a hole in a valve in her heart. she had multiple x-rays and tests done and all the conclusions were the same. she would need surgery. she didnt have the insurance or money to get the operation done and for a long time until she was 46 suffered many medical problems. at the age of 46 and many years of pain she stopped having problems after many years of faith and prayer. she finally goes back into the doctors office and gets more x-rays done and the doctors are astonished at what they found. they asked her if she had gone with heart surgery and she said no why? there was scar tissue built up where the hole in her valve used to be yet she had no scar on her chest. she told them about the prayer she had recieved over the years and the doctors put down on the report that, beyond medical understanding floare vancica was healed. she still has the report.

so please apply your logic here and scientific method to explain how there was scar tissue as with surgery on her valve yet no knife was ever put to her. is this a case of something that just happens? please explain

[StreetHazard]

yeah you should hate to do that because that didnt answer my question. i asked you how can and if the scientific method can be used to explain miracles of healing? please put the scientific method to this...

my grandmother when she was 35 years old had a hole in a valve in her heart. she had multiple x-rays and tests done and all the conclusions were the same. she would need surgery. she didnt have the insurance or money to get the operation done and for a long time until she was 46 suffered many medical problems. at the age of 46 and many years of pain she stopped having problems after many years of faith and prayer. she finally goes back into the doctors office and gets more x-rays done and the doctors are astonished at what they found. they asked her if she had gone with heart surgery and she said no why? there was scar tissue built up where the hole in her valve used to be yet she had no scar on her chest. she told them about the prayer she had recieved over the years and the doctors put down on the report that, beyond medical understanding floare vancica was healed. she still has the report.

so please apply your logic here and scientific method to explain how there was scar tissue as with surgery on her valve yet no knife was ever put to her. is this a case of something that just happens? please explain

Is this your evidence that god exists? and we can email this to the Academy?

Let me ask you a question before I invest anymore of my time with you. Are you open to possibility that god does NOT exist?

[geoff]

its not my evidence that God exists, i asked you a very simple question, can your acceptance of scientific method or theory explain what happened to my grandmother?

you ask any doctor if they have ever seen or experienced something that no book or doctor or scientist can explain and they will say yes. that was my point.

to answerer your question, am i open to the possibility that God does not exist, at times yes. i am human and like anyone with faith i have doubts at times and i question, but 99% of the time i believe my God exists. im still growing in my relationship with God and ever learning.

[5speed]

This thread is just repeating itself over and over. I def understand both points of views but I am with Geoff on this one. We cant prove everything, we are only human

[StreetHazard]

its not my evidence that God exists, i asked you a very simple question, can your acceptance of scientific method or theory explain what happened to my grandmother?

you ask any doctor if they have ever seen or experienced something that no book or doctor or scientist can explain and they will say yes. that was my point.

to answerer your question, am i open to the possibility that God does not exist, at times yes. i am human and like anyone with faith i have doubts at times and i question, but 99% of the time i believe my God exists. im still growing in my relationship with God and ever learning.

This thread is just repeating itself over and over. I def understand both points of views but I am with Geoff on this one. We cant prove everything, we are only human

and hopefully it will end.


The answer rests solely on your acceptance and belief that "god" or a supernatural entity is interacting with our lives and our universe.

If you are open to the possibility that it is not true, then you could no longer claim being a christian, you have crossed over to being agnostic. If you deny the existence of god completely then you are...that's right, an atheist. I "believe" there is also a point past this view in which you are so secure in your non-belief, and you grow tired of the intellectualism and political-correctness of Atheism you begin to project your non-belief onto others in the same way religious types do and actually lead them astray from their belief! I would say it's called Satanism, but only using the name to make a mockery of Abrahamic religion and to identify yourself as their enemy of "faith".

That is why it is an important question, it does not matter what answer I give because it all hinges on your ability to not believe. It would be alright if you chose not to though, you would not be the first christian I have personally baptized in the smokey hellfire of non-belief. There is a lot of freedom to had in your life after your have shed the weight of all that guilt, phony piety, righteousness and virtue. But what I like most about it is the hours, I don't believe 24 hours a day and 7 days a week and I don't carry a single shred of guilt I feel I should apologize for, to anyone or anything.

now excuse me but there is more sinning to do.

[5speed]

and hopefully it will end.


The answer rests solely on your acceptance and belief that "god" or a supernatural entity is interacting with our lives and our universe.

If you are open to the possibility that it is not true, then you could no longer claim being a christian, you have crossed over to being agnostic. If you deny the existence of god completely then you are...that's right, an atheist. I "believe" there is also a point past this view in which you are so secure in your non-belief, and you grow tired of the political-correctness of Atheism you begin to project your non-belief onto others in the same way religious types do and actually lead them astray from their belief! I would say it's called Satanism, but only using the name to make a mockery of Abrahamic religion and to identify yourself as their enemy of "faith".

That is why it is an important question, it does not matter what answer I give because it all hinges on your ability to not believe. It would be alright if you chose not to though, you would not be the first christian I have baptized in the smokey hellfire of non-belief. There is a lot of freedom to had in your personal life after your have shed the weight of all that phony piety and righteousness. But what I like most about it is the hours, I don't believe 24 hours a day and 7 days a week and I don't carry a single shred of guilt I feel I should apologize for, to anyone or anything.

now excuse me but there is more sinning to do.

its funny bc everything I believe about morality and things that are considered sin is what I always have believed anyways with or without religion.

[StreetHazard]

its funny bc everything I believe about morality and things that are considered sin is what I always have believed anyways with or without religion.

That is because your morality is shaped by your culture, culture in many ways is defined by it's religious views which then impact the society. if you were in Iran you would think it was alright to stone a woman to death because she cheated on her husband. With this logic, in America you must also think a homosexual act is morally wrong and deny those that engage in the practice basic legal civil rights of marriage.

I could fuck anyone I wanted. Male, female outside of my race or creed, married or unmarried, and with a different religion or culture as well. I could just walk into a room and and fuck anyone that was willing to have me....Ahhhhhh freedom. It is left to me to define my own morality.

[5speed]

haha yea I hear ya. I dont think being gay is morally wrong. Basically if its not hurting anyone or doing harm or taking away then I am fine with it

[StreetHazard]

haha yea I hear ya. I dont think being gay is morally wrong. Basically if its not hurting anyone or doing harm or taking away then I am fine with it

you got it! hold on to that philosophy and never give it up.

[geoff]

well my friend this is one christian you wont be baptizing into the hellfire of non-belief. i have doubts at times where God is in my life and feel alone sometimes, which inevitably leads to doubt in my mind. but those are very few and very brief moments. i will stick by my faith and my God and my beliefs and not hell nor high water will change that about me. i went 19 years under a veil of smoke believing what others told me was right and that science was our god, the past 2.5 years of my life as a follower of Christ have been filled with peace, understanding, wisdom, knowledge, and love that surpass all understanding. you stick to your faith in nothing but yourself my friend and i will stick to faith in my God. if we run into eachother in the afterlife i will say " sup ". God bless you and keep you and i pray earnestly that one day He will shine some light in your life. God love you my friend.

[StreetHazard]

finally after 30 pages

/ end thread

[geoff]

atleast between you and me my friend

[StreetHazard]

[BABY J]

What the FUCK makes you so special that an all-knowing being will make moves on your behalf? A being that created the sun and all that we observe would not give a SHIT about your mom being cured of cancer. Nor would She give her ONLY offspring to save a substandard creation that couldn't even follow simple instructions -LOL. People are so fickle I swear - LOL.

[5speed]

Malcolm X was so much cooler than MLK, just saying...

[geoff]

you said baby j that there is no evidence of Jesus rising back from the dead, are you in agreement tho that a man named Jesus did exist and proclaim that He was the Son of God? and here is a question for you, you said that a creator that made the sun and so on and so forth wouldnt care about us, would you as a father not care about your children that you created? would you turn your back on them after they were born and let them fend for themselves? God is more than a creator, He is a Father to us all.

[BABY J]

you said baby j that there is no evidence of Jesus rising back from the dead, are you in agreement tho that a man named Jesus did exist and proclaim that He was the Son of God? and here is a question for you, you said that a creator that made the sun and so on and so forth wouldnt care about us, would you as a father not care about your children that you created? would you turn your back on them after they were born and let them fend for themselves? God is more than a creator, He is a Father to us all.

Are you arguing my view that there is no evidence of this?

I said what I had to say about Jesus existing. No more important than the "heros" we have today - you kno, like Evil Kneivel. LOL. The fact that Jesus proclaimed to be the Son of God means nothing - he is one in a long line of people to claim such - and not ONE of the people who have claimed such has been seen again (verified) after they die on this rock. What happens on Earth is what happens IRL (LOL)... this is not Avatar or the Matrix - you die here you're dead - FOR REAL. Make this life the best that you can.

Look around - there are million od dadless kids around where the dad doesn't/didn't give a fuck about them. Why blame them... "God" is the creator of life remember?? So it's his job to care for kids that are created - not "their dad". What say you to that?

God has done NOTHING for me that a father would/should do for his kids - nor has he done anything for you.

[sport_122]

Are you arguing my view that there is no evidence of this?

I said what I had to say about Jesus existing. No more important than the "heros" we have today - you kno, like Evil Kneivel. LOL. The fact that Jesus proclaimed to be the Son of God means nothing - he is one in a long line of people to claim such - and not ONE of the people who have claimed such has been seen again (verified) after they die on this rock. What happens on Earth is what happens IRL (LOL)... this is not Avatar or the Matrix - you die here you're dead - FOR REAL. Make this life the best that you can.

Look around - there are million od dadless kids around where the dad doesn't/didn't give a fuck about them. Why blame them... "God" is the creator of life remember?? So it's his job to care for kids that are created - not "their dad". What say you to that?

God has done NOTHING for me that a father would/should do for his kids - nor has he done anything for you.

That is not necessarily the case. There are writings of eye witness accounts of Jesus being seen alive after his death. Paul wrote that there were some 500 or so people who saw Christ. Do you not think that this would have been verifiable as a claim in the early first century?

Now of course you could ignore that, but there are also other things such as the explosion in growth that happened after his death. and the actions of the disciples after his death versus after he was said to have risen.

There is a place of where I think when we look at what is out there we want to dismiss this stuff because of our desire to either be right or deny what is there, but eye witnesses in modern court cases often are the ones with the most weight. You get 25 people to testify to seeing something happen, then the jury will respond, let alone hundreds, but this has all been said. You can continue to ignore it.

But i ask this....

Why would the followers of Christ present such a powerful movement after Christ was dead unless he rose again? Christ claimed that he would, when he died they scattered in fear of what would happen, because they expected something different. When they saw him again, they were made more bold than ever before. Why would they have continued on, even to death, had they not been fully convinced that the Christ they followed did indeed rise from the dead as he said he would.

Why would so many people change their minds about Christ in the early first century, in that same region? Had his resurrection not been witnessed we can reasonably conclude from looking at other (cult) leaders in history, that his movement would have died, simply because the movement was based on the principles of the resurrection and his God hood.

If the resurrection did not occur, what are some reasonable explanations for the missing body of Christ? The Jews would have quickly produced evidence of this as soon as people spoke of Christ walking around after his death. They did not and could not. We could have expected that there would have been some sort of evidence from one of the hundreds of followers of Christ, who would have said, "no, this is not the case and christ was not seen". And he was said to have been around for 40 days which would have allowed ample opportunity for solidifying the claims.


About the dad thing, that is an emotional appeal not a logical one. First off, your children (if i recall you do have a wife and at least one kid) will never know how much you as their father have done for them. They will never know or understand the sacrifices you have made to discipline, provide for, or love them, yet they could still present the exact same statements as you. "You have done nothing for me that a father should/would do for their kid" Does that mean that you have not done your job or does that mean that something is wrong with your kids? No, it simply means that sometimes we cannot fully understand the intentions, actions, and motives of others.

My point on this is that you seem to be making arguments based on the actions of God vs the existence of God. As you have simply stated already, there are thousands of children who are fatherless, yet, not a single one of them is truly fatherless because they all come from somewhere. The fact that their fathers are dead or not acting in a certain way in their lives does not remove the fact that their fathers EXIST and ARE their fathers.

So my point is how does the actions and our understanding of why God does anything weigh in a conversation about whether or not God exists...It doesn't. Now if you want to argue the character of God, that is a different story, but existence does not mean that he is good to you or not. It simple means that he is.

[quickdodge®]

That is not necessarily the case. There are writings of eye witness accounts of Jesus being seen alive after his death. Paul wrote that there were some 500 or so people who saw Christ. Do you not think that this would have been verifiable as a claim in the early first century?

There are "eye witness" reports that Santa Claus exists, too. There are "eye witness" reports that Bigfoot exists. So what. Several people have wrote about Santa Claus. Seems verifiable enough to me, yes?

There is a place of where I think when we look at what is out there we want to dismiss this stuff because of our desire to either be right or deny what is there,

It has nothing to do with desiring to be right. It has to do with there is no factual evidence of any existence of God. A book? Right. There you go.

Why would the followers of Christ present such a powerful movement after Christ was dead unless he rose again? Christ claimed that he would, when he died they scattered in fear of what would happen, because they expected something different. When they saw him again, they were made more bold than ever before. Why would they have continued on, even to death, had they not been fully convinced that the Christ they followed did indeed rise from the dead as he said he would.

Why would so many people change their minds about Christ in the early first century, in that same region? Had his resurrection not been witnessed we can reasonably conclude from looking at other (cult) leaders in history, that his movement would have died, simply because the movement was based on the principles of the resurrection and his God hood.

Again, all this documented in the same book that gave us a man parting an actual sea. The same book that had a man build a boat big enough for a pair of every animal at the time to be saved in from a 40 day/night flood. The same book that had a man swallowed whole by a whale. I can see where all this is 100% believable.

If the resurrection did not occur, what are some reasonable explanations for the missing body of Christ?

Repeat after me....there are no such things as grave robbers. There are no such thi......

First off, your children (if i recall you do have a wife and at least one kid) will never know how much you as their father have done for them. They will never know or understand the sacrifices you have made to discipline, provide for, or love them,

You don't have children, do you? You're completely wrong on this.

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]My point on this is that you seem to be making arguments based on the actions of God vs the existence of God.

That's because all the God-people on here keep making their cases on each. People thanking God for what he has done for them is referring to actions supplied by God. People saying He exists is referring to the existence. Not sure what your "point" is.

The actual point is this: There is no factual or tangible evidence that God has placed anyone in the position that they are currently in or have ever been in. Not one. There is ONE BIG piece of evidence that shows how you (general you) have placed yourself in the position that you are in or have ever been in.

Later, QD.

[sport_122]

There are "eye witness" reports that Santa Claus exists, too. There are "eye witness" reports that Bigfoot exists. So what. Several people have wrote about Santa Claus. Seems verifiable enough to me, yes?



It has nothing to do with desiring to be right. It has to do with there is no factual evidence of any existence of God. A book? Right. There you go.



Again, all this documented in the same book that gave us a man parting an actual sea. The same book that had a man build a boat big enough for a pair of every animal at the time to be saved in from a 40 day/night flood. The same book that had a man swallowed whole by a whale. I can see where all this is 100% believable.



Repeat after me....there are no such things as grave robbers. There are no such thi......




You don't have children, do you? You're completely wrong on this.



That's because all the God-people on here keep making their cases on each. People thanking God for what he has done for them is referring to actions supplied by God. People saying He exists is referring to the existence. Not sure what your "point" is.

The actual point is this: There is no factual or tangible evidence that God has placed anyone in the position that they are currently in or have ever been in. Not one. There is ONE BIG piece of evidence that shows how you (general you) have placed yourself in the position that you are in or have ever been in.

Later, QD.

I do believe in God, and I do not believe simply because the Bible says so. I believe because I realize that our existence can only function by way of accepting some things as transcendent. Now maybe for some people the scientific approach will provide answers but the truth is it doesn't, and the Bible doesn't give all the answers to life. That said, I have just read how you didn't really make any real comments to support your disbelief. Am I to take that as you are saying that you don't believe because you "just don't believe".

We can play the rhetoric game over and over (which is why I stopped coming to this forum for so long), but the truth is that gets us nowhere. There are obviously some things that you have to apply general logic to in order for them to make sense. In your statements you choose to throw the logic out. Santa Claus (the big red suit) is historically known as a fictional character and in no way equates to Jesus. The big foot thing is something else entirely, even though Jesus was definitely a real person, but my point is, if you cannot except eye witness testimony, because according to your statements you make it seem unreliable, you cannot accept written testimony, because that somehow presupposes God's existence and that is against your stance, then how exactly do you make up your mind about anything. Where do you gather the ability to use logical reasoning to determine your answer because you have not evaluated the evidence, you threw it out before it was presented.

Do you base it off of yourself? That is impossible because all that you are is a product of your upbringing so you have been influenced by the outside as much as anyone else (and that includes us "God-people"). So tell me. Since you say there is no God? Is this something you feel inside. What is your tangible reasoning to a seemingly intangible question.

so let me see...
Scientists...they are as much a part of eyewitnesses and the people who see Santa Claus,
historical documentation is a much a part of inadmissible literature as the words written in the bible....

So the problem is that if you really want to have the conversation on a rational level (just as in court where things are argued rationally on a daily basis) the validity of my arguments must be tested thoroughly, but the argument that you make is sufficient in throwing out ALL evidence. so that leaves us in a courtroom pointing fingers at one another, and that is how illogical people make decisions....I would rather error on the side of logical inquiry that ignorant perception.

[sport_122]

Wow...i haven't logged in a long time...this thread is still kickin'!

[StreetHazard]

I typed something, then I realized I didn't care, then I looked at pornography

[geoff]

you speak for yourself my friend. God has done plenty for me

[BABY J]

you speak for yourself my friend. God has done plenty for me

Interesting. You weren't speaking for yourself when you said...

God is more than a creator, He is a Father to us all.

With that statement you were speaking for all people... yet you want to tell me to speak for myself only. I heart hypocrites.

[geoff]

good one sport, you took the words out of my mouth. nice to have you back brother. God bless you

[bodhi]

hey sport122 or whatever... tackle this post... since your buddy geoff didn't have the brains to engage in a rebuttalathon (get it? like a marathon--its funny, right?) with the lights of me
not saying you're any brighter... haha, jkjk

no, really i wasn't kidding

http://importatlanta.com/forums/show...&postcount=498

if you don't know what im talking about start reading from here http://importatlanta.com/forums/show...231713&page=25 or a page back

lemme know when you've got something other than the same old boring things that religious ppl bring to the table
oh, and if you've studied this in some fancy college then show me some things your professor taught you

Either way this should be interesting
geoff was about to bust out the white flag haha, getting bombed to hell by a few "dumb" folks 'round here in dis thread

[On_Her_Face]

I think I posted in here but Yes I do believe. Why? Faith. Can you take it away? Nope.

[BABY J]

QD stole my thunder. Great post...

If God is perfect, then why would he want to act at all on our behalf? If a perfect God wants to create something outside of himself, this implies to me that he is incomplete. However, human beings desperately want there to be some purpose behind the universe and they want to be apart of it. Sure enough, God "just so happens" to have created everything from nothing as part of a divine plan and that plan just so happens to revolve completely around us... LOL. Did God create us in his image or did we create God in OUR image... think about that REALLY hard. Think about the earliest humans explaining to a child while "uncle Billy died."

We value faith and trust because we are finite beings. They are a direct result of our limitations. However, God is supposedly infinite and all knowing. God "just so happens" to value that which is logically impossible for him to exhibit based on the very properties ascribed to him. How convenient that "streets of Gold" is the best that he as has to offer considering that a God of his stature "gold" is nothing. How convenient that the major fear that we have (death and the uncertaintly surrounding it) God has worked it out - LOL.

We fear death, so God wants to give us eternal life. We are uncomfortable with the unknown, so God magically reveals different, but detailed, answers to specific people using some undetectable and unverifiable communication channel. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

So, yes. When one takes an a deeper and more intellectual look at the supposed actions of God, the question becomes: if a omnipotent and omniscient being being does exist, why should he appear tailor made to our wants and desires?

[geoff]

baby j- you make alot of sense with your post above^. there is only a few problems with it. you are trying to exhibit knowledge on something you yourself have never taken the time to study. i have done the same thing when it comes to all the different scientific theories out there and what not. your view of God seems to me is coming from things you have read and heard other men say but you yourself have never taken the time to investigate. so to answer your question, God is not tailor made to our wants and desires. you see God has His way of doing things and we as people try and follow that. the reason God might seem tailor made is because of all the people out there that try and fit God into their own comprehension. A creative being as you might imagine and can admit, did exist then would it be fair to say that someone or something with the capability to create everything we see would be beyond our farthest understanding and logic? YES! people try and figure God out like He is some kind of patient being studied for sleeping problems. the cold hard fact is that we have made a false image of what God is. they take the christian God and His Word and skew it and twist it to fit their own ideologies and thoughts and theories and pray for things they know are not right and when He doesnt answer it they come up with an excuse. over the past few months i have learned alot about myself and my God. He does not give us the desires of our hearts and all of our wants. He will give what He promised and anytime we try and be sneaky and selfish and pray for things that are against His ways we will always get disapointed. there are two gods in the christian faith. the god of the world= skewed idea made by men to instill their own desires that has no biblical accuracy. and the God of the bible, creation, and men= Jesus Christ, who stands for righteousness, self sacrifice, love, honesty, morality, eternity, TRUTH! you have to actually search yourself to find this God.

[quickdodge®]

the cold hard fact is that we have made a false image of what God is.

Do you know why that is? It's because the "cold hard fact" is that there is NO set image in place as to what we are to see Him as. How do you honestly know what image is false or not? All you can really say is that you don't know. You go on faith. Which is not fact.

you have to actually search yourself to find this God.

You really don't have to search. Just have that faith. Later, QD.

[geoff]

i didnt mean image as in a view of man. i meant a false perception of what God is all about. and you do have to search, which will lead you to faith in the real God, not the 30 somthin different denominations views on Him. you instead will have true faith which is your own and not what someone taught you

[quickdodge®]

i didnt mean image as in a view of man. i meant a false perception of what God is all about. and you do have to search, which will lead you to faith in the real God, not the 30 somthin different denominations views on Him. you instead will have true faith which is your own and not what someone taught you

But no one knows who the "real God" is. You think yours is. Someone else may think his/hers is. How do you really know that your perception of God isn't false You don't. And that is where I agree with you on having a faith that is all your own. Later, QD.

[geoff]

i see where your coming from. i was just trying to point out that the god of this world that most people know christians for is not the God of the Bible. ofcourse believing in a God or anything requires faith, but not blind faith. as someone with faith i should always be able to answer why i have faith in my God, and be able to defend my faith. not just say, " well i heard someone say sometime that this is the truth and this is what i gotta do." we can both agree that blind faith is stupidity and foolishness

[BABY J]

[Starrfire]

It takes a complete and total fool to believe that there is no other life in the galaxy, even sentient life. But would people have faith that such beings did not exist, of course because it would rain on their parade.

[geoff]

how would that rain on people with faiths parade? the bible make mention of alien galaxies or other life. if you look at what the bible is supposed to be( God's blueprint for man) than why would it matter to us if there is other life out there?

[Starrfire]

Sure it does...

[geoff]

why would it matter to us? sure it would be cool, what if we found other life and they came to this earth preaching Jesus? would that sway your opinion at all?