^^ Will you marry me?
^^ Will you marry me?
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
I'm loving your 1st and 3rd paragraph. I agree with your 3rd paragraph about Evolution 100%. Nothing to debate on that. However, when you talk about the Drake equation, you are simply guessing numbers. The equation really can't hold any value as they are guessing most of the numbers involved in it. Also the fact that the Earth's atmosphere is very unique. The chances of other similar life-breeding planets existing in the Milky Way is high, but nothing close to the Drake's equation. Even though I have no proof to back my previous statement up, science is not something that can be guessed up, and that is exactly what Drake did in that equation. Some of those numbers can never even be calculated.Originally Posted by Fuhrer
Nothing close to Drake's equation? Let me use your own words against you; you have no proof to back up your previous statement. Although any type of extraterrestrial civilizations haven't been discovered doesn't mean that there cannot be hundreds if not thousands of civilizations out there. Drake's equation is just that; an equation.
Something to work with not be taken as hardcore actual fact.
~ Der F u h r e r
Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves...
...and now here's Tom with the weather.
As long as we don't get married in a church, then yes, I accept.
~ Der F u h r e r
Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves...
...and now here's Tom with the weather.
Touche!
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Yep I believe
Yes
I do believe in God! I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for the sins humanity committed. We as humans are a very interesting ourselves. Why? We are not perfect. Many people think that there is nothing wrong with them, and numerous people are brought up in a "It's all about me" state of mind. But, it's not. We are all capable of great love and compassion, but also great hate and destruction at the same time.
So, why are we even here? I like to believe that life itself is somewhat like the ultimate test. God puts us on this earth with a free will, so that we may learn from our natural sinful nature, and try to be the best that we can be.
No matter what you believe, as long as you are happy with yourself, then it should not matter! If most people can accept that, then maybe we will all be able to learn the truth someday! As far as God, and may individuals thinking that he is never there for them, ask yourself "Is it God that has turned his back on me, or have I turned my back on God?"
We all find a newfound faith at points in our lives. We may lose our faith for awhile, and gain it back because of an act of a miracle. It's all about learning, and gaining the knowledge about yourself and the lives around you, which will reveal who you truly are. Many of us don't even know ourselves. Each day, we learn something new.
In my opinion, God will always be there when you need him. No matter what you believe, or what you don't believe, God will always be there for you if you call for him. If you truly open up, and you are true to yourself, you will hear him. One way or another, he will always be there. Maybe some of us are just not looking!
Sorry for the long post.
i just spent way to much time reading like 7 pages of this. WOW
evolution is and will never will be proven. its just a theory ppl. if you think a big bang or what ever can make a world so perfect. i wonder what else goes on in your mind.
i am no perfect example to follow, but damn, what are they teaching our kids in schools now-a-days
^^ I assume that you have proof of God then... yes?
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
walk out side and look at nature. proof of God is right there.
there is also a study that was done in the Arctic Circle about ice caves and how nothing could have evolved with in them due to the harsh climate. yet there is still live living within the caves...give me a few and i will find the study.....im at work so i gotta find time to do it
I'm just picking at you man -- don't waste time out of your life providing that data.
I'm all about letting people be who they wanna be though -- Cheerio.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
This post of yours contradicts your previous post... because your first said that the evolution theory has yet to be proven and that it is only a theory, yet in this one you say that there is a "study" of life in ice caves, glaciers or whatever you want to call em, but that's proof enough of organisms evolving and adapting to that harsh environment. you asked what our school's are teaching kids these days -- well, just look back in history and take a look at the accomplishments atheists and other anti-religion people made and you tell me.
Do I believe in God, yes or no?
The universe is incredibly massive. Nevertheless, its mass must be spectacularly fine-tuned for life to be possible. Exactly how massive the universe is remained unknown until astronomers focused the Hubble Space Telescope on a patch of sky no bigger than a tenth the Moon's (angular) diameter, and held it there for some 278 hours (1million seconds). This Ultra Deep Field (picture below) successfully imaged all the galaxies (at least those bigger than dwarfs) that exist in that region.
The field contains roughly 10,000 galaxies. By extrapolation, then, astronomers determine that the entire observable universe contains at least 200 billion galaxies. These galaxies contain an estimated average of 200 billion stars each. The total number of stars in these galaxies, then, is 40 billion trillion. The unobserved dwarf galaxies would contribute an estimated additional 10 billion trillion. Thus, the total number of stars in the observable universe adds up to about 50 billion trillion.
...........................fifty billion trillion stars that's an unimaginably enormous universe. And yet the universe is more massive by far. The stars, both those that are still shining and those that have burned out, account for just one percent of the universe's total mass!
One reason the universe must be so massive is that life requires it. The density of protons and neutrons determines how much of the universe's hydrogen fuses into heavier elements. With a slightly lower density (producing fewer than about 50 billion trillion observable stars), nuclear fusion would be less productive and at no time in cosmic history (either in the big bang or in stars) would elements heavier than helium be produced. Or, if the density were slightly higher (producing more than about 50 billion trillion observable stars), nuclear fusion would be so productive that only heavier-than-iron elements would exist. Either way, life essential elements such as carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and phosphorous would be too scarce or nonexistent.
Another life-related reason the universe must be so massive is that the cosmic mass critically influences the universe's expansion rate. If the mass density were smaller, the influence of gravity would be too weak for stars like the Sun and planets like Earth to form. On the other hand, if the mass density were greater, only stars much larger than the Sun would form. Either way, the universe would contain no stars like the Sun or planets like Earth, and life would have no possible home. The required fine-tuning is so extreme (one part in a quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion) that if one were to remove or add a single dime's worth of mass to this vast cosmos, the balance of the observable universe would be thrown off and physical life would not be possible .
God spoke it and it stood fast
BABY J....we really need to get a UFO, E.T. thread going...that could be pretty fun hearing what people think.
I have an abundance of evidence that makes it logical for me to believe. But the very nature of a transcendent God means that our methods of proof will not be able to define or articulate his existence.
It is impossible to prove God. Not because there is no evidence, but because most people who believe in God believes that he is responsible for creation, and the atheistic and some scientific minds ould not accept anything that is subject (created by or under the rules of) to the thing to be proven to be used as proof of that things existence.
For instance, they say you can't use the Bible because it is defined by believers to be the word of God therefore it cannot be used. But if you believe God created all things then nothing serves as sufficient proof to the mind that refuses to objectively ask questions about the evidence prevented. Mostly because everything can be tied back to the Bible because it gives God credit for creating ALL things.
And to finish, this same point goes both ways. Science does not disprove the existence of God. In fact, the inability of scientists to account for our cosmological laws, the universally applicable tool of logic as we see it in living things and in our universe is not accounted for.
Example: science cannot give reason as to why we can look at the universe and reasonably know that there is order and that certain types of matter respond and act certain ways. A lawless universe does not allow for such deduction and without the ability to do so, there is no grounds for scientific observation and theory because the rules of observation would be non-existent based on a totally chaotic and non-specified universe.
But those of you who think evolution disproves God are sorely mistaken. The Biblical account says that God created man from dirt(the dust of the earth). That is the only detail that we have. That God created life from non-life. The origins of the evolution theory are now finding themselves having to answer the question what was the first thing. We know it wasn't lightning mixed with the perfect cellular cocktail. We could assume a comet, but that still does not account for original life in our universe. So what are they looking at now? Abiogenesis. Abiogenesis is the theory that life can come from non life. This is the idea of some evolutionists, but it actually will make the theists argument stronger, because that is the ONLY criteria that was given in the bible. And not only was it stated in the Bible, but the validity of such statement is solid when at the time that was written there would have been no way on earth that men would have been able to imagine and understand or conceptualize saying that life came from non life. There was nothing that would have demonstrated that to them yet they wrote it down in all of its original nonsense, but now we are investigating its probability.
This will be interesting to see how this argument plays out in future debates.
True, although some of us bring decent reason and rationale to our beliefs and some of us are just saying what we heard our pastor or some guy on TV say without really investigating into any of their claims.When every1 learns that we are arguing OPINIONS then they will accept some1 else's view a lot better. ...
That is not necessarily true. Some staunch religious people are willing to apply developing knowledge and understanding into their beliefs. I think the clash is that some people think that some of these things should serve to disprove the beliefs of the religious person, when it is almost impossible because their world view dictates that they believe already. therefore all of their interpretation of new scientific discovery will be reflected through that scope. And I think its obvious that I don't believe the Bible gives many scientific specifics that we have to argue with and this belief affords me the same opportunity that you have. It would be a different story if the Bible were a scientific book and it had data that would could really test and understand. But because it doesnt I can have my own personal thought on how something happened, but I also am flexible enough to know that those things are mostly assumptions coming from my limited understanding of the world, history, and God. I guess it is my scientific approach to understanding God, while my spiritual approach to believing in Him and knowing him rests in the character demonstrated in the Bible.Religious zealots are not afforded that, b/c in their mind they have arrived at the absolute... and that's a slick slope IMO.
But I can't put my eggs in the science basket when it is obviously a developmental institution. It will always change, and it will never know all things because there will always be questions.
umm no... organisms do not evolve to live in the arctic, they adapt. Much like you would if you moved to the pole tomorrow. Or much like we all do as the seasons change. We adapt. Also I don't know what research he is talking about but he specifically said, "nothing could have evolved because of the climate".This post of yours contradicts your previous post... because your first said that the evolution theory has yet to be proven and that it is only a theory, yet in this one you say that there is a "study" of life in ice caves, glaciers or whatever you want to call em, but that's proof enough of organisms evolving and adapting to that harsh environment. you asked what our school's are teaching kids these days -- well, just look back in history and take a look at the accomplishments atheists and other anti-religion people made and you tell me.
Lastly with your last sentence I am not sure if you are about the science and what it states or if you are about the atheists or anti-religion message. People like Richard Dawkins have surely clouded this relationship, but to say it easily, you can believe in evolution and be into science and still be a believer or involved in religion. There is nothing about science that says that religion is wrong, or that you should be a scientists and not a religious person. In fact science has its foundations based on faith that we will eventually have the ability to understand our world in much greater detail. There is faith invovled in the scientific process. Even Richard Dawkins said that men are wired to have faith in something.
I just don't get down with mixing science with rhetoric because that ignores the fact that science is neutral in this discussion. It does not prove definitively one way or the other. I am not sure if it ever will.
found an interesting video on youtube that made a scientific approach to prove God. anyone care to discuss? link is below...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1J5kX4Cubc
the organisms never evolved. they have aways been there and have never changed. i dont contradict myself ever..re-read my post. dont plug words in my post
I don't believe in God.
Do I believe there could be a superior being? maybe.
More than likely, there's nothing. I think it's just all fate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
buttons who dictates that fate? how can there be fate " a set plan for your life" if there is no higher being who made your fate? something cant come from nothing and fate cant be a consequence of randomness or nothing. God is very real...we all have it wired in our dna to look up at the stars and ask why are we here? what is our purpose? its faith that God uses to first get our attention and when you use faith and search for Him whole heartedly He will reveal Himself to you. when you said do you believe that there could be a superior being and answered maybe you were half way there. all you have left is to search and find out who that being is. The end result might just shock you. i can tell you that you might not believe in God but He believes in you and each one of us. Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ
you think it was fate you were born? are you happy with being an accident? "it was fate my daddy didnt pull out of my mom, and it just so happen that fate decided that sperm would travel to an egg"!
thats not what anyone should accept. if God never existed than we would be totally self sufficient. there would be no consequences.
sorry but you have no evidence to support that claim of yours...
how do you know that the organisms have been there since the beginning of time? who told you that lie? are you confused as to what evolution actually is or do you just not wish to understand it or put any effort into reading up on it?
polar bears, sea lions, walrus', pinguins, ect. all evolved and adapted to the arctic environment... so, what makes you think microorganisms didn't?
am i wrong here? or were they placed there in a snap of a finger?
It was fate that my mom and dad decided to have a baby and it happened. What you think God planned you? LOL Don't be ridiculous. Religion is some of the biggest bullshit I've ever seen and people use it as a crutch.
How does God make us self-sufficient? How does it make it so there is consequences?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
I want to believe that there is something up there and that when I pass away I am not gone forever and ever. Which I am deathly afraid of. Scares me right now just typing it.
But, evolution is everywhere and it looks to be the correct belief.
-Ant.
The Carbon Fibered R6
you say that fate was decided by your parents? what you fail to realize is that God formed you in the womb and breathed the breath of life into you( your soul). and yes God planned me, He knew me before i was formed and has my entire life planned out, the same goes for you and all of us. there is no such thing as an accident and God is the one who dictates fate. i agree with you that religion is pretty messed up these days. God never intended for us to make it what it is today. He doesnt call you to any religion but a relationship. Anthony F...there is hope for you and all of us. God is very real and very interested in your soul and life. no one said evolution was wrong.
evolution and science are tools God uses to help us explain the world around us. evolution is not all wrong or all right. God was the creator...things adapted to their surroundings and survived because God put that instinct in us. remember, nothing could not produce everything because then there would be no potential to create anything.
must refrain from...
okay, i'm good now..
Please explain to me how he is able to do this to every single human being? Is the same treatment done to animals? Because animals are made the same way humans are. They might not be as advanced, but same concept. A mommy and daddy have sex and then a baby(ies) is(are) made.
There is no such thing as an accident? Oh please. That doesn't even make sense. So if you are so "into" God. You've never yelled at your parents, right? You are saving yourself for marriage, right? You are only gonna be with one woman, right? etc. etc. etc.
God can't be interested in everyone. He's a "superior being" I know, but why do people use it as a crutch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
He is able to do this with every single human being because like you said HE is a "superior being". and He gave all creatures godlike power by being able to procreate. the difference with humans and animals is that he doesnt breath in a soul to animals. and thats right there are no such things as accidents. newton said "every action has an equal or opposite reaction". so then every cause has an effect and you cant have one without the other right? so hence no accidents. and yes i am very "into" God but i wasnt always. im 21 and came to God when i was 19. im not a virgin but i havent had sex since i made my commitment and i am with one woman now who i am marrying. and yes i have yelled at my parents and done alot worse, but no one is perfect thats why Jesus died on the cross..to give us forgiveness. and yes God is interested in everyone and can be. HE is our creator and just like when and if you have children your going to be interested in all of them not just one or two. and i dont use God as a crutch. He is my direction and guidance in life. whichever path i take is my ultimate decision.
I believe in Newton's laws. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". I believe in Fate. I believe that there could be a superior being. But God/Christianity, not so much. I was a Christian for over 12 years of my life. Around 13, I decided to be Agnostic. It is a personal choice.
But whatever path you take, should be the path God choose for you. So where is free will?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
yes you are wrong....you can not prove evolution. you can try to feed me a bunch shit darwin said about fruit flies mutating and birds and etc. still no proof..
im not sure if i was placed here by a snap or just a command. ill have to check on that
I believe in Newton's laws. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". I believe in Fate. I believe that there could be a superior being. But God/Christianity, not so much. I was a Christian for over 12 years of my life. Around 13, I decided to be Agnostic. It is a personal choice. But whatever path you take, should be the path God choose for you. So where is free will? __________________
well if you believe in newtons law and you believe in fate then how do you still believe in accidents or chance? and you said you were christian until you were 13 years old? like i said its a personal relationship with God. and i hope one day you get a chance to come back to that. and yes the path you choose should be the path God has for you because thats the one that leads to salvation and the one that leads to eternal life and happiness. where is free will? free will is that you dont have to choose Gods path for you. you can choose to live life how ever you choose. you can live a life pleasing to your flesh and do whatever you want and not worry about the consequences or you can live a disciplined life and live it for God. thats free will.
Free will. yes. if i wasnt planned then i or you would be wondering around your entire life with no purpose and never accomplish anything.
Exactly, took my thoughts and put them into words
for zach and anthony. like i said. there is hope guys. if you have a bible pick it up and start in the new testament, thats Gods promise for everyone.
Evolution should not be looked at as a belief. It is a scientific theory that gives a suggestion as to HOW. Faith in the existence of a transcendent God (all powerful, and not fully known or understood) does not necessarily give a HOW.
For instance: you believe that birds exist, but it doesn't tell you how they fly. Or you believe that cars are real but that doesn't tell you how they work or what they do.
I agree with Geoff and as a believer I do not doubt evolution in most cases (there are several different versions of evolution) I think there are HUGE holes in the theory, but I believe there are some valid points. But until a complete fossil record is found then nobody can even say that evolution is 100%, we can just say there is evidence.
Also, my world view does not lead me to believe we have a free will. I believe we have the ability to make choices, but not a free will. For instance, in a multiple choice question, you have the option to select A, B, C, or D. You cannot select F unless it is given as a possible answer. So even in your ability to make choices, your options are limited as well. And what gets even crazier is that choices made apart from us dictate how we will establish our choices. Pointing back to some causal event that began the process of responses and decisions which will echo and place us where we are to be. But i digress free will cannot logically exist in the finite and only in the infinite can 1 free will logically exists. I believe that 1 will governs and establishes all universal laws which is why our universe is seen as consistent and predictable when we observe it.
I have had the same thoughts before. I had to take a nap to shake it off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
I would love to debate this, but there is too many close minded people. Reason why I only talk about these subjects with other Agnostic/Atheist people is because they are open to listen to everything... Not just promote the bible and Christianity with every single argument they have.
We are supposed to be able to discuss this, not just push the bible on someone. Do you really think saying "God is right ... blah blah" is actually going to change someone's mind that has already made their decision? Just because you think your opinion is right, does not mean that everyone else thinks it is correct.
If one religion was "better" or "more correct" than another, then that would be the only religion. Religion was made, because different groups of people separate and started a belief on their "takes on life". That's all it is. Just like how language was formed over the years. You don't speak primarily English in Latin America countries, you speak Spanish. Just like prodominantly there is English in the USA and not Spanish.
When the first people were on the earth, they spoke the same "sound" language and probably believed in the same things. Then when they broke off to follow the food, after so long of learning new things and seeing new things, they began their own language and their own beliefs. People living in sand all the time are going to thing different then people living in the woods all the time. It's just how it is.
CLIFFS: Just if you are going to continue in this discussion, have other things to say then bible this, bible that, and God blah blah blah. Use factual things. I don't care to read the bible and nothing anyone is going to say will give me an epiphany.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
~enters~~leaves~
i am open to any discussion/debate and am expressing what i believe to be truth. and your in a RELIGION forum so of course ima use the bible lol. and in case you have misread any of my posts i have been using facts all along. and i never said any religion was correct or wrong. i said a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with God is what counts. you will find whatever religion suites you and your beliefs best after. and agnostic/atheism are not religions, they are beliefs. and you no what...ima say it and offend some one. Christianity and Jesus Christ=right!!! watch the link to the youtube video i posted. and your right religion was made by men...thats why God Himself came down in flesh as Jesus to preach truth. no other religion/God comes close to being scientifically plausable or comes close to being rational. if u think of 1 lmk...lets hear the atheist/agnostic side
That's fine. You grew up differently then me and have a whole different mindset then me.
you don't have to keep telling them about the path of god and what not.and your in a RELIGION forum so of course ima use the bible
this doesn't even make sense. Whatever religion suites me after my relationship with god? If Agnostic fits me the best, then i don't need a relationship with god. There is nothing wrong with my beliefs.i said a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with God is what counts. you will find whatever religion suites you and your beliefs best after.
You can think that, but that doesn't mean you are right. I don't even think everyone needs a religion. Your belief is all that counts in the end. And my belief is always going to be different than yours. You don't see me pushing my beliefs on you or saying that my beliefs are more correct than yours.Christianity and Jesus Christ=right!!!
No one is absolutely right and no one ever will be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
Oh wow. Someone should enter the definition of close-minded into wiki and urbandictionary all summed up into one word, "Geoff".
Christianity and Jesus Christ is right for YOU. Good for you. Now how has it made you a better person in helping the world? Something that is GOOD doesn't need advertising. 2,000 years later if you have the best product available from everyones experiences and use of it then it will be a monopoly. Every house hold on earth will be using it, or living by it. Not even Billy Mays could sell Christianity on everyone.
"Right religion"? How on earth do you know what is right? Because you read it? Because you "feel" it? If that what it takes to make YOU the person you should be then so be it.
What is scientifically plausible or even rational about religion?
first...i dont have to keep telling them about the path of God...wrong. you grew up in church you know that Jesus told the disciples to spread the word.
second...i dont believe everyone needs a religion but they do need a relationship with God. but...the bible clearly states that we need to hear the word preached.
last...there will be someone right in the end...God. the bible says that on Jesus' return every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord. i just dont wanna or want anyone to be on the side that says it too late...hence me witnessing to people. im curious...you say your agnostic so by your own beliefs you admit that you dont know if there is or isnt a God because a lack of metaphysical evidence. so with all those questions why not seek some answers? and not answers from any man but from God Himself? what do you have to lose in trying?
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