It was fate that my mom and dad decided to have a baby and it happened. What you think God planned you? LOL Don't be ridiculous. Religion is some of the biggest bullshit I've ever seen and people use it as a crutch.Originally Posted by btstone
How does God make us self-sufficient? How does it make it so there is consequences?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
Free will. yes. if i wasnt planned then i or you would be wondering around your entire life with no purpose and never accomplish anything.
I want to believe that there is something up there and that when I pass away I am not gone forever and ever. Which I am deathly afraid of. Scares me right now just typing it.
But, evolution is everywhere and it looks to be the correct belief.
-Ant.
The Carbon Fibered R6
Exactly, took my thoughts and put them into words
Evolution should not be looked at as a belief. It is a scientific theory that gives a suggestion as to HOW. Faith in the existence of a transcendent God (all powerful, and not fully known or understood) does not necessarily give a HOW.
For instance: you believe that birds exist, but it doesn't tell you how they fly. Or you believe that cars are real but that doesn't tell you how they work or what they do.
I agree with Geoff and as a believer I do not doubt evolution in most cases (there are several different versions of evolution) I think there are HUGE holes in the theory, but I believe there are some valid points. But until a complete fossil record is found then nobody can even say that evolution is 100%, we can just say there is evidence.
Also, my world view does not lead me to believe we have a free will. I believe we have the ability to make choices, but not a free will. For instance, in a multiple choice question, you have the option to select A, B, C, or D. You cannot select F unless it is given as a possible answer. So even in your ability to make choices, your options are limited as well. And what gets even crazier is that choices made apart from us dictate how we will establish our choices. Pointing back to some causal event that began the process of responses and decisions which will echo and place us where we are to be. But i digress free will cannot logically exist in the finite and only in the infinite can 1 free will logically exists. I believe that 1 will governs and establishes all universal laws which is why our universe is seen as consistent and predictable when we observe it.
Did you seriously type ALL that to my PERSONAL opinion about MY beliefs? Get a fucking life loser. I don't care what YOU believe. I did not type anything to get involved into a religion debate. I stated what I feel like is going to happen.
-Ant.
The Carbon Fibered R6
I have had the same thoughts before. I had to take a nap to shake it off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
you say that fate was decided by your parents? what you fail to realize is that God formed you in the womb and breathed the breath of life into you( your soul). and yes God planned me, He knew me before i was formed and has my entire life planned out, the same goes for you and all of us. there is no such thing as an accident and God is the one who dictates fate. i agree with you that religion is pretty messed up these days. God never intended for us to make it what it is today. He doesnt call you to any religion but a relationship. Anthony F...there is hope for you and all of us. God is very real and very interested in your soul and life. no one said evolution was wrong.
must refrain from...
okay, i'm good now..
Please explain to me how he is able to do this to every single human being? Is the same treatment done to animals? Because animals are made the same way humans are. They might not be as advanced, but same concept. A mommy and daddy have sex and then a baby(ies) is(are) made.
There is no such thing as an accident? Oh please. That doesn't even make sense. So if you are so "into" God. You've never yelled at your parents, right? You are saving yourself for marriage, right? You are only gonna be with one woman, right? etc. etc. etc.
God can't be interested in everyone. He's a "superior being" I know, but why do people use it as a crutch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
evolution and science are tools God uses to help us explain the world around us. evolution is not all wrong or all right. God was the creator...things adapted to their surroundings and survived because God put that instinct in us. remember, nothing could not produce everything because then there would be no potential to create anything.
He is able to do this with every single human being because like you said HE is a "superior being". and He gave all creatures godlike power by being able to procreate. the difference with humans and animals is that he doesnt breath in a soul to animals. and thats right there are no such things as accidents. newton said "every action has an equal or opposite reaction". so then every cause has an effect and you cant have one without the other right? so hence no accidents. and yes i am very "into" God but i wasnt always. im 21 and came to God when i was 19. im not a virgin but i havent had sex since i made my commitment and i am with one woman now who i am marrying. and yes i have yelled at my parents and done alot worse, but no one is perfect thats why Jesus died on the cross..to give us forgiveness. and yes God is interested in everyone and can be. HE is our creator and just like when and if you have children your going to be interested in all of them not just one or two. and i dont use God as a crutch. He is my direction and guidance in life. whichever path i take is my ultimate decision.
I believe in Newton's laws. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". I believe in Fate. I believe that there could be a superior being. But God/Christianity, not so much. I was a Christian for over 12 years of my life. Around 13, I decided to be Agnostic. It is a personal choice.
But whatever path you take, should be the path God choose for you. So where is free will?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
I believe in Newton's laws. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". I believe in Fate. I believe that there could be a superior being. But God/Christianity, not so much. I was a Christian for over 12 years of my life. Around 13, I decided to be Agnostic. It is a personal choice. But whatever path you take, should be the path God choose for you. So where is free will? __________________
well if you believe in newtons law and you believe in fate then how do you still believe in accidents or chance? and you said you were christian until you were 13 years old? like i said its a personal relationship with God. and i hope one day you get a chance to come back to that. and yes the path you choose should be the path God has for you because thats the one that leads to salvation and the one that leads to eternal life and happiness. where is free will? free will is that you dont have to choose Gods path for you. you can choose to live life how ever you choose. you can live a life pleasing to your flesh and do whatever you want and not worry about the consequences or you can live a disciplined life and live it for God. thats free will.
for zach and anthony. like i said. there is hope guys. if you have a bible pick it up and start in the new testament, thats Gods promise for everyone.
No sir, thats "gods" promise for you. I am not trying to be an asshole but you cant force or guilt other people to believing in what you believe. Thats the problem with religion, its like building an army to take over other peoples beliefs, who ever has the most people wins the war. I dont want to be apart of that.
that is an unfair statement. i am a christian. my basic beliefs are prob close to geoff's. have a i tried to convert you? have I tried to make you feel guilty about not believing what i believe? i would love it if you were a christian and believed in salvation, but you dont. I am not here to preach it to you, i am here to follow my path God has chosen for me. if you want to follow as i do then that is great. if you dont, i could honeslty give less than a shit!
thanks
Wow. Just wow. This is the problem w/ "Christians" right here. LOL. Amazing.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
so the problem is that i said a "bad" word. oh no. dont go to mommy. i wasnt perfect. oh no. point made!
This is a perfect example of what i mean, other sides of the battle field. You feel as if i lashed out towards christians or your beliefs. The fact of the matter is that you feel better about yourself by "shutting me down" grow up dude seriously. As for your questions no, this is the first time i have ever even commented in this section or even quoted you so that is an unfair statement
I would love to debate this, but there is too many close minded people. Reason why I only talk about these subjects with other Agnostic/Atheist people is because they are open to listen to everything... Not just promote the bible and Christianity with every single argument they have.
We are supposed to be able to discuss this, not just push the bible on someone. Do you really think saying "God is right ... blah blah" is actually going to change someone's mind that has already made their decision? Just because you think your opinion is right, does not mean that everyone else thinks it is correct.
If one religion was "better" or "more correct" than another, then that would be the only religion. Religion was made, because different groups of people separate and started a belief on their "takes on life". That's all it is. Just like how language was formed over the years. You don't speak primarily English in Latin America countries, you speak Spanish. Just like prodominantly there is English in the USA and not Spanish.
When the first people were on the earth, they spoke the same "sound" language and probably believed in the same things. Then when they broke off to follow the food, after so long of learning new things and seeing new things, they began their own language and their own beliefs. People living in sand all the time are going to thing different then people living in the woods all the time. It's just how it is.
CLIFFS: Just if you are going to continue in this discussion, have other things to say then bible this, bible that, and God blah blah blah. Use factual things. I don't care to read the bible and nothing anyone is going to say will give me an epiphany.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
do you want to DEBATE or PERSUADE. Debating denotes you would discuss it and give your reasons and evidence. Persuading means that you would do so IF you felt people would listen and be changed. Thats more like what people would associate with an evangelical...like Geoff. The only difference is you two are on opposite sides of the discussion.
You cannot have a discussion about a persons beliefs or a debate on such without discussing the foundation of their beliefs. For instance, even as a person who does not believe, I am sure some of your reasons are based off of things you don't believe to be correct in scripture.We are supposed to be able to discuss this, not just push the bible on someone. Do you really think saying "God is right ... blah blah" is actually going to change someone's mind that has already made their decision? Just because you think your opinion is right, does not mean that everyone else thinks it is correct.
That is really bad logic and not even close to accurate based on history and biology. Even one of the foremost atheists (Richard Dawkins) says that he believes that all men are wired to be believers and somehow in our history we have always believed because without it we would not be forward thinking individuals. Also, if one "x" was better then there would be only one because everyone would be doing that specific "x"... I don't think so. Also, you guys are using religion to mean different things. I would not push "RELIGION" on anyone, yet I will sit down and give you evidence for why I believe the way I believe and I have plenty of reasons. From the standpoint of someone who is infuriated by people spreading their legalistic forms of religion/faith, I can understand your frustration, and I should let you know that is one of the things about the foundation of faith in Christ that is important to the Christian. Its NOT about your efforts. Its not about how good you are and the good deeds you do. Its about grace because we cannot live up to the standard set before us by God.If one religion was "better" or "more correct" than another, then that would be the only religion. Religion was made, because different groups of people separate and started a belief on their "takes on life". That's all it is. Just like how language was formed over the years. You don't speak primarily English in Latin America countries, you speak Spanish. Just like prodominantly there is English in the USA and not Spanish.
But as Chris Hedges (an atheist) says: "atheists and agnostics need to stop blaming the religions and the systems that people of faith subscribe to and start realizing that the actual problem is one that is existent in the hearts of ALL MEN. We are all broken. The world without religion is one that too many atheists ask for, yet it truly could be the end of society, because if you believe the religious zealot bad now, just imagine the world when they have given up on their unfaltering desire to please their God through restraint and humility." I paraphrase this to say that we are all messed up in some way. That is why the christian believes in the need for an outside assistance if we are to be reconsiled.
~enters~~leaves~
i am open to any discussion/debate and am expressing what i believe to be truth. and your in a RELIGION forum so of course ima use the bible lol. and in case you have misread any of my posts i have been using facts all along. and i never said any religion was correct or wrong. i said a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with God is what counts. you will find whatever religion suites you and your beliefs best after. and agnostic/atheism are not religions, they are beliefs. and you no what...ima say it and offend some one. Christianity and Jesus Christ=right!!! watch the link to the youtube video i posted. and your right religion was made by men...thats why God Himself came down in flesh as Jesus to preach truth. no other religion/God comes close to being scientifically plausable or comes close to being rational. if u think of 1 lmk...lets hear the atheist/agnostic side
That's fine. You grew up differently then me and have a whole different mindset then me.
you don't have to keep telling them about the path of god and what not.and your in a RELIGION forum so of course ima use the bible
this doesn't even make sense. Whatever religion suites me after my relationship with god? If Agnostic fits me the best, then i don't need a relationship with god. There is nothing wrong with my beliefs.i said a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with God is what counts. you will find whatever religion suites you and your beliefs best after.
You can think that, but that doesn't mean you are right. I don't even think everyone needs a religion. Your belief is all that counts in the end. And my belief is always going to be different than yours. You don't see me pushing my beliefs on you or saying that my beliefs are more correct than yours.Christianity and Jesus Christ=right!!!
No one is absolutely right and no one ever will be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
Oh wow. Someone should enter the definition of close-minded into wiki and urbandictionary all summed up into one word, "Geoff".
Christianity and Jesus Christ is right for YOU. Good for you. Now how has it made you a better person in helping the world? Something that is GOOD doesn't need advertising. 2,000 years later if you have the best product available from everyones experiences and use of it then it will be a monopoly. Every house hold on earth will be using it, or living by it. Not even Billy Mays could sell Christianity on everyone.
"Right religion"? How on earth do you know what is right? Because you read it? Because you "feel" it? If that what it takes to make YOU the person you should be then so be it.
What is scientifically plausible or even rational about religion?
fixed for ya....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
first...i dont have to keep telling them about the path of God...wrong. you grew up in church you know that Jesus told the disciples to spread the word.
second...i dont believe everyone needs a religion but they do need a relationship with God. but...the bible clearly states that we need to hear the word preached.
last...there will be someone right in the end...God. the bible says that on Jesus' return every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord. i just dont wanna or want anyone to be on the side that says it too late...hence me witnessing to people. im curious...you say your agnostic so by your own beliefs you admit that you dont know if there is or isnt a God because a lack of metaphysical evidence. so with all those questions why not seek some answers? and not answers from any man but from God Himself? what do you have to lose in trying?
Who says the Bible is more right than any other article ever published? Because it's sold more? It's sold more because it's solely the basis of the largest controversy on earth. It's a collection of peoples experiences, most weren't even written for years after then they translated multiple times after that.
I want to know how Christianity and believing in God has made you a better person for other people, not as a determination for after-life.
Take TOMS Shoes for example, no where does it mention religion in their movement to help the world. The founder could be atheist for all you know, maybe he's a Christian or he may practice Buddhism. You don't know but it doesn't matter because his movement has helped prevent infections and serious illness of over 140,000 children in poverty stricken countries, just by providing them with shoes. I think religion was created to point people in a direction like they have done.
http://www.tomsshoes.com/content.asp?tid=227
Just like I've done countless mission trips, but do I need a church to drive down to Mexico and install a new roof on a house? No.
Do I need God to tell me I should help a women with a flat change on the side of the road? No. What if I were to get hit by a car while changing it for someone else? Would I blame God? No. I would be thankful it was me and not the other person.
Would I need religion to go to Central America and teach dozen of farmers how to use natural resources to irrigate their crops so an entire community can survive a drought? No.
Is religion needed to go to Asia and teach an entire civilization how to effectively filter water after 1,000's of died and contaminated the soil following a nature disater to prevent thousands of more deaths? No.
The only person you should believe in is yourself. If someone can't do that yet then yes they need "God" until they can.
Stop making sense - you're scaring me. You cut that out this instant!!
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Believe in yourself for what? What does that mean? Believe in yourself to go out and serve the needs of others. Believe in yourself to do the right thing. Sure people can do that. No problem and you don't need to be religious to do it, but I am not sure where this entire statement fits in the flow of this thread.
How does that make you any different than people who believe that a car bomb is the will of God or people who believe in themselves who think that religious people should be purified (erradicated). What tells me that your beliefs matter when our two beliefs in self conflict? What tells an army in africa that their belief in self does not give them the right to torture rape and steal from the communities. What tells the people in asia that it is not right to prostitute young girls, or people in europe that sex trafficing is wrong.
so when your worldview says, believe in yourself what do you mean because not all help is help, not all change is good, not all quests for peace are bloodless. What is the belief in self fix for these things?
My point is that if life is about self and interpreting good for others then that can easily be oil and water and if we are waiting for people to believe in self what happens when their "self belief" violates yours?
I mean understand the good side of what you are trying to focus on but this does not change the human condition. We are a really bad society overall and there is no shortage of scholars today or through history that believe we are very capable of pushing ourselves towards extinction because of a promoted world view of self interests. So how is this a good world view?
dont get me wrong, I am not saying that a religious world view is better. I am saying that you are completely ignoring the human element of all world views. This is why I believe people need a common standard to uphold. Without one, we have seen that we cannot function and to ask for a world without one is to ask for more genocide and more persecution because our history tells us that most of the people in this world are NOT humanitarians, and the ones who are not have the biggest guns pointed at the ones who are.
When does the bible say that this will happen - LOL.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
i am open-minded about hearing others beliefs and will discuss them and my own. how has it made me a better person? its given me a purpose to my life. to be a good example, to be kind, to try and help others (financially, spiritually,ect) as much as i can. and im not advertising or trying to sell christianity to anyone. i am simply giving an alternative to all the "theories" out there to what i found to be TRUTH. and how is religion plausible or rational...i meant to say that God is rational and plausible. whats not plausible about christianity? tell me how atheism or agnostic belief is plausible?Oh wow. Someone should enter the definition of close-minded into wiki and urbandictionary all summed up into one word, "Geoff". Christianity and Jesus Christ is right for YOU. Good for you. Now how has it made you a better person in helping the world. Something that is GOOD doesn't need advertising. 2,000 years later if you have the best product available from everyones experiences and use of it then it will be a monopoly. Every house hold on earth will be using it, or living by it. Not even Billy Mays could sell Christianity on everyone. "Right religion"? How on earth do you know what is right? Because you read it? Because you "feel" it? If that what it takes to make YOU the person you should be then so be it. What is scientifically plausible or even rational about religion? __________________
But this concept of your God comes from Christianity....
If I believed in God and had a relationship with him, that would make me believe in Christianity.
How do you know this? Because the bible says so? If I wrote a book on my beliefs and had a few million follow, would that make me right? No.last...there will be someone right in the end...God.
i don't know if there is a superior being... It may or may not be a god(s).you say your agnostic so by your own beliefs you admit that you dont know if there is or isnt a God because a lack of metaphysical evidence.
I do read up on stuff. When I open my eyes, I realized that Christianity wasn't for me.so with all those questions why not seek some answers?
How can I get answers from "God himself"? The fucking bible? People can't even correctly translate it to English, so how can I know it is the absolute truth? You should just stop. I will believe in what I want to, just like you can. There is no reason to be ignorant.and not answers from any man but from God Himself?
Definition of Ignorant... The lack of knowledge, before anyone says I'm personally attacking you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
i respect your beliefs...im not trying to "convert" you. just pass on some knowledge. and i pray that God would show Himself to you and show you "truth". God bless you, whether you believe in Him or not.
Then why are you continuing like a broken record? I know everything that you have already said. God isn't what is needed for everyone. I'm glad he has made you a better person, but believing in God won't change the person I am. I know many people who are bad that are Christians. It doesn't change who YOU ARE. It just gives you something to believe in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
just because they say they are christians doesnt mean a thing. if i told you i was a bird, would you believe it. follow people's actions, not the words they say. that will tell you where the heart really is
KNOWLEDGE is not disputable. What you're passing on is information - which IS disputable. Kthnxbye.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
a "true" christian is a changed person. the bible says they are a "new" man. and going to church and reading the bible doesnt make you a christian so there are no such things as "bad" christians or churches. you either live for God whole heartedly or you dont. there is no middle ground. and i wont discuss this anymore with you since your not up for it. my bad. God bless
it's just you aren't making much sense. besides telling me basically how right you are and you are telling the absolute truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKLx...layer_embedded
response from 03RCode: Hell, it turns me on. I have a steel hard erection as speak
"Who Gives a Fuck" Crew Member #5
you dont need religion to be a good person. thats not the issue here. i honestly dont have an answer to answer you baby j or speedminded. you have your belief and i have mine and since when is knowledge not disputable? you never stop understanding or growing in knowledge. something we are sure of today in 50 years could be different. knowledge is limited by experience and ever changing hence it IS disputable. i will be prayin for you guys. god bless
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