Vagina hurting? Vent in here.

[David88vert]

Actually, the Neon was designed by Chrysler to be a track car. The design team was approached to create a vehicle that could compete in a road course race scenario. Hence why the car was "cheaply" made. The all plastic interior that just snaps off, the rarely any power options and in the case of the ACR, race ready components. It was the best performing car in it's class for several years....and this included the highly coveted (<---- I made a funny) Honda Civic of the same years. Later, QD.

Actually, according to Chrysler, it was designed to be an internationally sold compact FWD, and reintroduce the Chrysler name to Australia, where they had not sold any cars since '81. It was a replacement to the Duster and Sundance also in North America. We all know that compacts are designed to be cheap, and the pencil pushers look to limit costs in the whole process. That's not how you design a racecar.
They couldn't sell enough cars to SCCA member to warrant designing different geometry for a car for track use. How many ACRs do you think they sold in the 1st gens? Not enough to warrant production of a coplete line of cars, for certain.
It was the best performing car in a limited, controlled class - but that was done with factory bolt-ons, like suspension, and different transmission ratios. The interior for all of the Dodges back then were cheap plastic clip-on interiors. I've taken out lots of them.

There is nothing wrong with the Neon. I think that it is more impressive that as a true street car, it clearly outclassed its competitors in performance, but the truth is that the ACR was really a base Neon without the sound deadening, ABS, etc, and a slightly upgraded suspension/brake setup. The chassis was still a street car, not a engineered race car.
Even more impressive is that it absolutely demolished its competition in bang for the buck with more horsepower than any of its rivals - by a good bit. Granted, they copied Mitsu's motor, but it worked.

The real question is why is Simon berating a 240 when it outperforms his own car at his own type of racing?

[Elbow]

Actually, according to Chrysler, it was designed to be an internationally sold compact FWD, and reintroduce the Chrysler name to Australia, where they had not sold any cars since '81. It was a replacement to the Duster and Sundance also in North America. We all know that compacts are designed to be cheap, and the pencil pushers look to limit costs in the whole process. That's not how you design a racecar.
They couldn't sell enough cars to SCCA member to warrant designing different geometry for a car for track use. How many ACRs do you think they sold in the 1st gens? Not enough to warrant production of a coplete line of cars, for certain.
It was the best performing car in a limited, controlled class - but that was done with factory bolt-ons, like suspension, and different transmission ratios. The interior for all of the Dodges back then were cheap plastic clip-on interiors. I've taken out lots of them.

There is nothing wrong with the Neon. I think that it is more impressive that as a true street car, it clearly outclassed its competitors in performance, but the truth is that the ACR was really a base Neon without the sound deadening, ABS, etc, and a slightly upgraded suspension/brake setup. The chassis was still a street car, not a engineered race car.
Even more impressive is that it absolutely demolished its competition in bang for the buck with more horsepower than any of its rivals - by a good bit. Granted, they copied Mitsu's motor, but it worked.

The real question is why is Simon berating a 240 when it outperforms his own car at his own type of racing?

Yeah, the actual chassis wasn't any different. It came stock with adjustable Konis and what not though and other Mopar options. This car isn't just a stock ACR either though. The point is it was built to run SCCA SS racing and to win, which it did. Dodge even made the "Neon Challenge" series which was a semi-pro series that ran at pro events as a support series with factory Dodge support. This car also raced in that very competitively. The car has a shit load of history and that's another reason I was happy to buy it.

Like I said, a 50HP race car and a 800HP race car are both race cars. There is no better way to showcase a new car than racing it. Mazda and Honda have both announced a new series with Fits and Mazda 2s, I guess those aren't real race cars either.

[David88vert]

Like I said, a 50HP race car and a 800HP race car are both race cars. There is no better way to showcase a new car than racing it. Mazda and Honda have both announced a new series with Fits and Mazda 2s, I guess those aren't real race cars either.

There is nothing wrong with Neons, not any other limited series racing; however, you cannot say that a street car with a couple of bolt on suspension pieces is suddenly a racecar, because it was put on at the factory. You turn around and call all the people that do the same thing aftermarket ricers. That's nothing but trying to boost your own ego. The ACR was available with A/C, not something most racecars have.

A 150 hp street car is nothing like an 800hp engineered racecar. If you think they are, you haven't driven a race car.

Modern cars that top out at 115-120mph, and no different from their street counterparts, are not racecars to me. Just because you take a car on a track does not turn it into a racecar. Just like if you take a tube chassis car, and put lights and a tag on it, doesn't make it a street car.

[Elbow]

There is nothing wrong with Neons, not any other limited series racing; however, you cannot say that a street car with a couple of bolt on suspension pieces is suddenly a racecar, because it was put on at the factory. You turn around and call all the people that do the same thing aftermarket ricers. That's nothing but trying to boost your own ego. The ACR was available with A/C, not something most racecars have.

A 150 hp street car is nothing like an 800hp engineered racecar. If you think they are, you haven't driven a race car.

Modern cars that top out at 115-120mph, and no different from their street counterparts, are not racecars to me. Just because you take a car on a track does not turn it into a racecar. Just like if you take a tube chassis car, and put lights and a tag on it, doesn't make it a street car.

Well we're going to just have to disagree then. What I get from what you're saying is that a car modified to be a race car isn't a race car. In this case, the ACR Neon was modified to a start to be a race car. I'm saying this particular car, started life from the dealer, went to get a cage, and has raced sense. The fact that it has road racing logbooks and what not makes it a race car, simple as that.

I've driven purpose built race cars and of course there is a difference. I'm saying though to me a race car is a race car. If it can legally compete in a wheel to wheel race then it is a race car. It doesn't matter if it goes 10mph, it's still a race car. I am very open minded when it comes to my definition of a race car and I've seen just about any type of car you can think of racing, maybe that's why I disagree what what you're saying.

Who have I called a ricer? The 240 guy just to piss him off. Like I said though, if I bought a Civic, put a full cage, fire system, seat, harness, etc. Chose a class, did some work, got a logbook for it, then yes, it very well IS a race car. The only reason I keep saying is the ACR wasn't a street car or was built to be a race car is that it WAS, I didn't buy an ACR and turn it into a race car. I'm speaking of my car in this situation.

As for the A/C thing, I don't know what the ACR could or couldn't come with, like I said I don't know much about Neons, I bought it because it was ready to race, not because I like Neons. lol I do know this one doesn't have A/C though. I also know most race cars these days in larger series DO have A/C, just not the factory installed type.

If you have a Showroom Stock ACR which is a basically stock car and it turns the same laps as a street ACR, the SS ACR is still a race car. Why? It's legal to race. THAT is my definition of what a race car is, if it races, it's a race car.

[David88vert]

Well we're going to just have to disagree then. What I get from what you're saying is that a car modified to be a race car isn't a race car. In this case, the ACR Neon was modified to a start to be a race car. I'm saying this particular car, started life from the dealer, went to get a cage, and has raced sense. The fact that it has road racing logbooks and what not makes it a race car, simple as that.

I've driven purpose built race cars and of course there is a difference. I'm saying though to me a race car is a race car. If it can legally compete in a wheel to wheel race then it is a race car. It doesn't matter if it goes 10mph, it's still a race car. I am very open minded when it comes to my definition of a race car and I've seen just about any type of car you can think of racing, maybe that's why I disagree what what you're saying.

Who have I called a ricer? The 240 guy just to piss him off. Like I said though, if I bought a Civic, put a full cage, fire system, seat, harness, etc. Chose a class, did some work, got a logbook for it, then yes, it very well IS a race car. The only reason I keep saying is the ACR wasn't a street car or was built to be a race car is that it WAS, I didn't buy an ACR and turn it into a race car. I'm speaking of my car in this situation.

As for the A/C thing, I don't know what the ACR could or couldn't come with, like I said I don't know much about Neons, I bought it because it was ready to race, not because I like Neons. lol I do know this one doesn't have A/C though. I also know most race cars these days in larger series DO have A/C, just not the factory installed type.

If you have a Showroom Stock ACR which is a basically stock car and it turns the same laps as a street ACR, the SS ACR is still a race car. Why? It's legal to race. THAT is my definition of what a race car is, if it races, it's a race car.

We definitely disagree, as that definition puts every street car that ever rolled off the line as a racecar, if it runs just once.
By that definition, any car that is on track in a race - even just once - is a race car. Basically, a bonestock VW diesel that enters a bracket race on Saturday afternoon at Commerce, is still a race car. Even though it would do 22-23 seconds.
Any stock Kia that is entered in a track day event that participates in a lunch time race would be a racecar.
A lawnmower could be considered a race car if it was on a track even - and only doing your 10mph.

To me, those are just street cars that are being enjoyed, but not race cars. As an example, my old RX7 (GSL-SE, not the FD) was caged, built suspension, motor, etc, and I did not consider it to be a racecar. It was just a street car that saw some occasional track time.

Ultimately, as long as you enjoy the car, that is all that matters though. If you want to consider it to be a racecar, that is up to you.

[quickdodge®]

There is nothing wrong with Neons, not any other limited series racing; however, you cannot say that a street car with a couple of bolt on suspension pieces is suddenly a racecar, because it was put on at the factory. You turn around and call all the people that do the same thing aftermarket ricers. That's nothing but trying to boost your own ego. The ACR was available with A/C, not something most racecars have.

The ACR did come with adjustable Koni shocks. It did NOT come with AC. AC was an option, like on another car. The ACR was designed and built to be a track car that could be driven daily as well. Even the radio was an option in the ACR model. Later, QD.