xMAS and Christianity???

[b@d @pple]

and this is the theodice problem

We also have the theodice problem, stated by David Hume:
If the evil in the world is intended by god he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can't be both almighty and good. There are many objections to this, but none that holds since god is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Besides, if only god can create he must have created evil. If somebody else (the devil) created evil, how can one know that god, and not Satan created the universe?

[b@d @pple]

god is void

If everything must have been created, then god must have been created as well. If god is not created, then everything mustn't have a creator, so why should life or cosmos have one?

Besides this argument has another leap. If everything has a source and god is that source, then god must have existed without it before he created it. So if god created time and space, he must live outside of time and space. Thus he is non-existent. If all life must come from something and that is god, god is not alive and hence non-existent. If moral must come from god, god lacks moral. If logic comes from god, god is illogic. If nature comes from god, god is unnatural. If existence comes from god, god is non-existent. If god is the cause of everything, god is void

[b@d @pple]

i hope this argument has been informative....there are you happy this wasnt just a "typical christian" defense

[trini_gsr]

there's a lot of reaching in those arguments you posted. we could go into picking them out still, if you really wanna debate...but i think the thing to realise is that belief systems, be it religious or scientific, are usually based on unprovable assumptions.

for example, scientists don't yet have an sure explanation to where the matter came from that exploded with the big bang. they just assume that part and build from there. all of euclidean geometry is built on the assumed and unprovable 5 Postulates. and so on...

so it's really simple. you can either believe God exists and build from there, or you can believe God doesn't exist and build from there. it's all based on an assumption, that you should logically make given the facts. this can be argued in either direction. i personally believe in a higher power, because there are things that science has yet to explain (like why stuff like voodoo, witchcraft, etc works).

[b@d @pple]

agreed!

[metalman]

for example, scientists don't yet have an sure explanation to where the matter came from that exploded with the big bang. they just assume that part and build from there.

Some scientists have discovered radioactive "halos" in the foundation rock of the earth. These occurances last less then a nano second yet are frozen in granite. All non Creator theorys involve TIME and LOTS of it to form this rock. So much for that theory.
Is there a more plausible answer? Yes...God spoke...and it WAS. Instantly!

As you say, "they just assume"....non Creator origin theory takes a great deal of faith and overlooking glaring evidence to believe.

[{X}Echo419]

everything "must" come from somewhere. an absolute nothingness can't create anything. it's like having an empty fish tank and expecting the fish to just appear. it's can't happen. believing some nerd in a dark room with a test tube tells you about the creating of everything sounds alot more stupid than believing in a higher power.

tring to understand the creation of the whole flippen universe with our technology and scientific abilities is like one of you trying balance the national budget alone with 1 calaulator. there is not way, your infantile minds couldn't handle it.

Einstein did many great things and some terriable ones too. but one thing he did not discover or prove the SOURCE OF ALL FRIGGIN THINGS EVER!

ya, got pwned on the "holliday tree" issue so ya need to go somewhere else with the topic advocating an issue that gets beat to death by up tight pricks on college campuses (spelling) everyday. an issue that "can't be proven" period. there's only 3 ways this can be found out for sure by any of us, 1.we die 2. God/Jesus slaps us all in the face and says "WTF, you talkin' bout' willis?" 3. one of our friends turns out to be an alien and right before the earth is destroyed were beamed abord an alien ship. after whice we go on an interstellar journey only to find out the the meaning to life is 42.

Merry Christmas!

[metalman]

ya, got pwned on the "holliday tree" issue so ya need to go somewhere else with the topic advocating an issue that gets beat to death by up tight pricks on college campuses

Thanks for the unsolicted "advice" but I feel free to respond to whatever topical issues or questions arise in the course of any discussion.
I didnt get "pwned" on any holiday tree issue. Perhaps you didnt read carefully. I have no objection to the word christmas, having trees, or the american people celebrating it or not. I only pointed out the real meaning and orgin of it all and that in fact it was never a christian thing to begin with.

[ISAtlanta300]

god is void

If everything must have been created, then god must have been created as well. If god is not created, then everything mustn't have a creator, so why should life or cosmos have one?

This can be argued both ways. If God does not exist and did not create life and cosmos, then who did? If it was not "created" but "just is" then again, everything mustn't have a creator. If the big bang "just happened, just because", without God. then what is the theory behind it?

Besides this argument has another leap. If everything has a source and god is that source, then god must have existed without it before he created it. So if god created time and space, he must live outside of time and space. Thus he is non-existent. If all life must come from something and that is god, god is not alive and hence non-existent. If moral must come from god, god lacks moral. If logic comes from god, god is illogic. If nature comes from god, god is unnatural. If existence comes from god, god is non-existent. If god is the cause of everything, god is void

Then who created that void? You are bordering on theories that neither you or I can comprehend. We reach a point where 2 = 0. Neither side can be explained. If God is the source, the everything, something must have created everything. If God is NOT the source, and the creation of creation, is the result of some mathematical sum, then someone must have created that as well. In neither cases can something exist just out of nothing. So in either cases there must be a source. So both theories are right, and both are wrong. In our mind, it is the universal puzzle.

Our minds are only able to comprehend that something must come out of somewhere. That is the nature of humanity and of life. We originate. We can not comprehend something just being.

[ISAtlanta300]

and this is the theodice problem

We also have the theodice problem, stated by David Hume:
If the evil in the world is intended by god he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can't be both almighty and good. There are many objections to this, but none that holds since god is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Besides, if only god can create he must have created evil. If somebody else (the devil) created evil, how can one know that god, and not Satan created the universe?

As explained above, evil in this world is not intended by God. It is created by our own absence of goodwill and his grace. Devil did not create evil. God created everything, even the devil. Therefore, God created evil.

Let's put it even further. It is generally agreed that God has both a good side and a "bad" side IN OUR EYES. The "bad" side is known by his wrath. The good is known by his creations and blessings.

God has the ability to create and kill. He can create universes and end them. Create the earth and destroy it.

And again, God is not mortal. Do not think of God as a man with white beard as much as you can think of the devil as a half-goat with horns.