Best Boosted B-series?

[Vteckidd]

Well then, lets agree to disagree so we save ourselves the time

agreed lol

[Vteckidd]

and i would bet money we tune way more hondas than any other shop, so if scotty hasnt made himself a name by now, i dont know what hes gonna have to do to "make it"

not being arrogant, just telling the truth.

[BTEC]

I SAY THE GSR IS THE BEST B-SERIES TO BOOST. MORE TORQUE THAN THE B16 AND IT HAS VTEC (BETTER AIRFLOW) AND REVS HIGHER THAN THE LS B18A/B.

AND IT HAS OIL SQUIRTERS, LS MTR DOESNT. LOL!!!

[BTEC]

and i would bet money we tune way more hondas than any other shop, so if scotty hasnt made himself a name by now, i dont know what hes gonna have to do to "make it"

not being arrogant, just telling the truth.

I TUNED ALOT OF HONDA, MY HONDA. LOL!!!

I MUST ADMITT SCOTTY HAS GOTTEN WAYYYYY BETTER FROM WHEN I FIRST WENT TURBO.

[RiceBoy]

I made 320 whp on mine..A completely stock GSR engine 4 yrs ago...Yes, 4 yrs ago when everyone didn't think stock block can be boosted and much less over 300..Here is a video from one of Commerce fast friday nites...The car lasted the whole year with weekly visits to Commerce..Still would have lasted even longer but I yank it out for the built block I was building..Sold it to a dude out west....that was a good block too...

http://bellsouthpwp.net/g/h/ghia/track.AVI
Click and save

[juan b]

i dont understand why people say its not reliable to make over 300 on a stock block.. there are too many ppl that have done it on honda-tech to not say its possible and reliable..

i guess your right we cant tell if they are lying but i know for a FACT peter (isp) made 425hp on a completly stock gsr motor,15 psi, drag raced every friday for over a year, (best run 11.20) then pulled the motor and sold it.. if thats not reliable i dont know what is. and drag racing is beating the shit out of the motor i would consider that motor completly reliable..

[93H22ACX]

what is the defination reliable? In racing there isnt such a thing as reliability....

Racing is breaking... breaking is making power.... and i got to go take a big ass shit from these 15 slim jims i just ate

[BTEC]

what is the defination reliable? In racing there isnt such a thing as reliability....

Racing is breaking... breaking is making power.... and i got to go take a big ass shit from these 15 slim jims i just ate

U WAS ON A ROLL BUT THAT LAST PART THAT CAME OUT OF BUMFUC EGYPT WAS UNNECC.

[juan b]

and i would bet money we tune way more hondas than any other shop, so if scotty hasnt made himself a name by now, i dont know what hes gonna have to do to "make it"

not being arrogant, just telling the truth.

any other shop nation wide or in ga?

[Shawn]

The answer is simple, IT IS REALIABLE TO MAKE OVER 300 ON A STOCK MOTOR. / THREAD

[BTEC]

any other shop nation wide or in ga?

IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM.

[Vteckidd]

any other shop nation wide or in ga?

in GA

Ill agree to disagree with you guys. When it comes to reliable power, i stand by my statements.

if you , the customer, want to push it past that, if it makes the power, then thats fine, if it pops, ill be there holding the waiver

[juan b]

in GA

Ill agree to disagree with you guys. When it comes to reliable power, i stand by my statements.

if you , the customer, want to push it past that, if it makes the power, then thats fine, if it pops, ill be there holding the waiver

mike whats there to disagree about? whats your definition of reliable power? in the thread you have 2 people that made over 300 hp (trihn 320, peter 425) beat the shit out of the motors, drag raced them every friday and they both ran for over a year and they were pulled out in perfect condition..

[Shawn]

and nextelbuddy 326

[Vteckidd]

i just dont think you guys get where im coming from.

Im a BUSINESS, you guys are PRIVATE BUILDERS. on your PERSONAL car you cna do whatever you want, if it blows, thats your problem. but also, ISP an all of them (trihn, etc) have been around an KNOW what it takes , and if it pops, they can deal with it.

When i have guys that come in and dont really know what their motors are capable of, what the mileage is, the overall condition, then its hard for me to say "yeah it can hold 350whp EASY". especially since ive seen alot of them blow up past 300whp.

hell, we pushed a STOCK D16Y8 to 249whp, hows that for aggressive, or Armans GSR to 297whp stock motor.

we get aggressive when the customer asks for it, but like scotty said, its a double edged sword.

You cn be aggressive an get yourself a name for making power, but you can also get a name for "blowing" stuff up. Pick an choose wisely. Im comfrotable with our tuning procedures, and most people arent going to want to push their stock motors past 280whp.

For the OCCASIONAL customer that wants to, then , hey, as i said before, they sign a waiver

[SPOOLIN]

yeah those few people have made 425 and been successful BUT, the general consenses out there, meaning the majority of motors pushed that hard, EXPLODE WHEN THEY GO THAT HIGH.

[juan b]

i just dont think you guys get where im coming from.

Im a BUSINESS, you guys are PRIVATE BUILDERS. on your PERSONAL car you cna do whatever you want, if it blows, thats your problem. but also, ISP an all of them (trihn, etc) have been around an KNOW what it takes , and if it pops, they can deal with it.

When i have guys that come in and dont really know what their motors are capable of, what the mileage is, the overall condition, then its hard for me to say "yeah it can hold 350whp EASY". especially since ive seen alot of them blow up past 300whp.

why would you even let any customer that doesnt know shit about cars boost their motors if they are not in good condition, i believe that if the motor is fine, (ie. compression test, leak down test) hell boost it and make good/reliable numbers. make the most power out if it that you can. there is plenty of stock motors pushing over 300 hp and reliable. i wouldnt say that a motor is not reliable if it is pushing over 300 hp mike. YOU (mainstream) do not recomened you push the motor over 300 hp, because the owner wouldnt know how to drive it none the less maintain it..

we get aggressive when the customer asks for it, but like scotty said, its a double edged sword.

when scotty was tuning my car we hit 250 on 10 psi.. and he said he wanted to stop there. i asked to go up a little more and he hesitated to say yes. we went up to 11 psi and he wanted to stop.. hell i wanted to go to 15 psi on my stock b16.. and if it would of blown that would of sucked, but when you boost a motor you have to be prepared for bad stuff to happen. i beat the shit out of my car on 13 psi with a 11 psi tune.. not to smart i know but i dont think scotty wanted to push the car that much on the dyno. and i understand, hes earning his rep and a blown motor would make him look bad.. on the other hand 300 hp stock b16 would also make him look great. let me know when your ready scotty

You cn be aggressive an get yourself a name for making power, but you can also get a name for "blowing" stuff up. Pick an choose wisely. Im comfrotable with our tuning procedures, and most people arent going to want to push their stock motors past 280whp.

For the OCCASIONAL customer that wants to, then , hey, as i said before, they sign a waiver

lol the funny thing about this comment is the first time i got tuned, i signed a waiver, but the second i didnt.. what does the waiver actually say i never even read it.. but even if my motor would of blown the second time, it would of been totally retarded for anyone to want to sue you guys.. like i said before you have to expect the unexpected.. if it blows shitty, time for bigger and better. if you expect a perfect car that will last forever then your an idiot. imho i think most of the times that a motor blows is beacause the owner is an idiot. most of the times the owner dont know shit about cars and nothing about maintaining a boosted motor.

[boostedb16]

ok again what about 8 psi, i'm not looking for 300+ hp but 200-230, i'm not trying to blow it up because i have to drive mine everyday.

[1/4Mile]

we'll push your car as much as you want, but if it pops, dont blame the tuning, cause ill pull the a/f grahps up an theyll be flat and where they are supposed to be, its your motor that failed. not my problem.

cheers

Well said Mike, Scotty has tuned both my cousin's H23accord-t and Kid Battle(Srt-4) cars and all is well, and he'll be tuning H23accord-t new built H23 engine. Can't wait to see what happens. Good things, Good things

[1/4Mile]

ok again what about 8 psi, i'm not looking for 300+ hp but 200-230, i'm not trying to blow it up because i have to drive mine everyday.

Dude give it a rest already, before I call the thread police for you trying to jack my thread. And yes You'll be fine on 8psi(TUNED)

[boostedb16]

Dude give it a rest already, before I call the thread police for you trying to jack my thread. And yes You'll be fine on 8psi(TUNED)

thanks was that so hard to answer.

[v8killr]

thanks was that so hard to answer.

no it wasnt hard...but it was a very STUPID question to answer when the answer to your question you couldve plainly read in this thread...lol. 8psi is NOT anywhere close to the power i was making on a stock gsr(395whp pump gas)...little on peter...425whp.

anyways, its all PERSONAL PREFERENCE. if you want to make the power that a N/A b-series can make on a boosted b-series then more power to you. for me, if i am going boosted then anything under 300whp wont be worth the money i spend on the turbo kit. i could just throw a 100shot direct port on and hit 250whp ... lmao!

[scttydb411]

Im not trying to talk smack, I know Scotty tunes a lot of cars(he does, not you). But tuners make a name for themselves but doing great things and pushing the envelope. If you wanna play it safe you'll never make it anywhere. I hate to say this, but i know scotty plays it very safe, all the cars i have seen him tune run rich as shit and the rears of the cars are black as hell.

true, tuners can make a good name for themselves pushing the envelope, but also make a bad name for popping engines on the dyno. i push as far as the customer wants to go. if they ask my opinion i'll give it to them. a lot of time they say they want to daily drive and want it reliable and i make those recommendations and be conservative. however, if they say that's ok and want want to push it xx far because they heard on the internet someone made xx power i'll do it as long as they know that it might not end as happily for them.

what afr do i tune at? not as rich as your statement implies. how much more power does a n/a car make at 13.0 vs 14.0 wot? how about a boosted one at 11psi or less between 11.5 and 12.5? the reality is not very much. fuel is used as a thermal barrier to help prevent detonation and increase the reliablility of the motor in these instances. any boosted car will have a sooty bumper whether it's tuned at 13.0 (insane) or 11.5 (not that i tune all of them that rich).

aggressiveness comes from timing. you stop adding timing when the addition of timing stops increasing power or detonation occurs. luckily many honda motors have a nice buffer zone where power increases slow/stop before detonation begins, unless you are being "aggressive" on your afr and lose that buffer. race gas is the other magic bullet to help push it when you really push the boost up and cylinder pressures get extreme to not follow this rule.

when it's all said and done i have to answer to each and every customer i tune and also answer to shops that refer me those customers. i'm not going to take advantage of them for the chance to "make a name for myself". my goal is to give a good tune and service to each car and customer. if that makes me conservative then i'm guilty.

[scttydb411]

when scotty was tuning my car we hit 250 on 10 psi.. and he said he wanted to stop there. i asked to go up a little more and he hesitated to say yes. we went up to 11 psi and he wanted to stop.. hell i wanted to go to 15 psi on my stock b16.. and if it would of blown that would of sucked, but when you boost a motor you have to be prepared for bad stuff to happen. i beat the shit out of my car on 13 psi with a 11 psi tune.. not to smart i know but i dont think scotty wanted to push the car that much on the dyno. and i understand, hes earning his rep and a blown motor would make him look bad.. on the other hand 300 hp stock b16 would also make him look great. let me know when your ready scotty



lol the funny thing about this comment is the first time i got tuned, i signed a waiver, but the second i didnt.. what does the waiver actually say i never even read it.. but even if my motor would of blown the second time, it would of been totally retarded for anyone to want to sue you guys.. like i said before you have to expect the unexpected.. if it blows shitty, time for bigger and better. if you expect a perfect car that will last forever then your an idiot. imho i think most of the times that a motor blows is beacause the owner is an idiot. most of the times the owner dont know shit about cars and nothing about maintaining a boosted motor.

i'm ready whenever you are...don't forget you'll need to upgrade your map sensor from stock to 2.5bar or 3bar. this is also another reason i didn't want to push it farther because your map ends at 11.xx psi.

i'd be ecstatic to push a stock block/internals as far as everyone has been showing...it's up to the owner and you sound like you're up for it.

regarding the waiver the second time i think i had you re-initial the original one. i save every waiver for every car i tune and it can transfer anytime i tune, but i sometimes get a new one signed or the original intialed each time. in a nutshell the waiver states that we take every precaution and you are aware that your car will be tested under extreme conditions and damage can occur and that you are assuming those risks and not hold us liable. it's similar to bungee jumping or parachuting...you are aware that something may go wrong and SPLAT!

[scttydb411]

i hope the original posters question has been answered in the 4 pages of debate.

[boostedb16]

no it wasnt hard...but it was a very STUPID question to answer when the answer to your question you couldve plainly read in this thread...lol. 8psi is NOT anywhere close to the power i was making on a stock gsr(395whp pump gas)...little on peter...425whp.

anyways, its all PERSONAL PREFERENCE. if you want to make the power that a N/A b-series can make on a boosted b-series then more power to you. for me, if i am going boosted then anything under 300whp wont be worth the money i spend on the turbo kit. i could just throw a 100shot direct port on and hit 250whp ... lmao!

idont think it was a stupid question because i dont know what 8 psi = hp

[juan b]

idont think it was a stupid question because i dont know what 8 psi = hp

no body knows that 8psi would make hp wise to many factors..

[1/4Mile]

no it wasnt hard...but it was a very STUPID question to answer when the answer to your question you couldve plainly read in this thread...lol.

Dido!!

[1/4Mile]

i hope the original posters question has been answered in the 4 pages of debate.

Yes it has Scotty, but you've gotta admit it's pretty interesting

[scttydb411]

Yes it has Scotty, but you've gotta admit it's pretty interesting

agreed...interesting.

[§treet_§peed]

i'm so JDM i'm running 30 PSI on my Snapper...

[TypeRSi2o3]

H&M motorsports home of the daily drivin bone stock 300 whp @ 10 psi ls/vtec 1yr strong not even smokin yet holla

[93H22ACX]

idont think it was a stupid question because i dont know what 8 psi = hp

8-10psi is differnt on alot of things especially size of turbo and health of engine as well as manifold, dp, etc.

Here's an example of my hp at 10psi.
GT4088
10psi with 3" dp and 2.5" IC piping= 383whp
10psi with 4" dp and 3" IC piping = 410whp

T3/T4B Super V
15psi=283whp

T3/T4B Super V untuned @ 10psi = Weaker than stock (back in 1996 )

see the difference? its not about what boost level but about hp output at that boost pressure.

[Turbogixxer]

B16s WILL NOT LAST past 250whp. their Ringlands are WEAK an THINNER, they break an crumble under boost. Anything past 230whp on a b16 on your on borrowed time.

We have gotten 270whp out of a bone stock GSR(stickys) and it popped a headgasket. I have seen GSRs make 300+whp on HT but anyone that thinks its reliable an feasible for every day, i hve a dyno here that will totally disagree with you.

For safety an reliability, a GSR can stay between 230-280whp. anything over that an your on borrowed time.

I am sorry, that is completely wrong. If you think those numbers are correct, it is a tuning issue or (rarely) a motor problem.

If it is done correctly, you will have no problems with either motor over 300whp.

[Vteckidd]

H&M motorsports home of the daily drivin bone stock 300 whp @ 10 psi ls/vtec 1yr strong not even smokin yet holla

yeah we tuned it lol

you cant tell me im wrong when i have PERSONAL experieince.

ISP has had succes with 300whp+ stock motors. We have had SOME successes and some failures, thats why i said its not RELIABLE.

if you really want to blame the tuning, i can post the a/f graphs along with the timing tables if you like for every car we have ever dynoed.

ITS NOT A TUNING ISSUE, its a RINGLAND issue on the B16s, its a CAST piston issue on the honda motors, period.

i have $100 ill bet anyone , bring your stock gsr up here an ill take it to 400wh[ on pump gas an if it lasts longer than 15 pulls, ill give you the money

[Turbogixxer]

you cant tell me im wrong when i have PERSONAL experieince.

I am sorry you have a ego, but you are wrong. Saying you have personal experience means nothing. Come on, all these people are doing this, but you have different experience?

The fact that I have done what you call "living on borrowed time" and never had a problem (within reason).


I really do not care about your a/f charts, because the odds are they are measured on the dyno wideband.

[Vteckidd]

I am sorry you have a ego, but you are wrong. Saying you have personal experience means nothing. Come on, all these people are doing this, but you have different experience?

Am i sposed to go by what HT says? im sorry but personal experience means alot then "i heard someone did this". what i meant was i cant tell you that YOUR wrong cause obviously there is a select few that have made over 300whp for awhile, an you cant tell me im wrong because i have seen cars make over that an blow up.

I dont know about you, but id rather go from personal experience than follow the crowd.

The fact that I have done what you call "living on borrowed time" and never had a problem (within reason).

that would be YOUR personal experience, you say its reliable, i think for a customer to ask me "is 300whp on a stock motor reliable" i would have to say no, from my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE:

Lances b16 turbo 10psi popped ringlands the second he went above 12psi
Jerrys ITR (same ringlands as b16 pistons) popped 1 month after he boosted it at 10psi
Mikes 2000 civic si blew within 1 week of 8psi of boost (popped ringlands)
Kevins b16 exploded a valve with a 75 shot of nitrous
Seans 00 Civic si popped after 3 months, ringlands collapsed
Reggies B16 DA popped ringlands after 2 weeks of 10psi

now we have tuned H+Ms LSVTEC that made over 300whp stock ls block, armans made like 290ish stock gsr, Matts Gt28Rs made 280whp stock gsr, Stickys stock gsr =270whp.

I would say to keep it RELIABLE because i know the composition an heat ranges of a CAST PISTON, would be between 250-280whp, for RELIABILITY. anything over that i think your on borrowed time. 1 detonation on a CAST pistons at 12-18psi, and the motor is DONE. One bad batch of gas from BP, motor is toast.

Now you say its reliable. well when you run a shop, and have to stand behind your statements, you might think differently. I would not feel good telling someone "so an so says 350whp is reliable, so lets do that", then after 2 months it grenades cause i know there is a good possibility that it will. Id rather tell them 280whp is reliable, an to enjoy it until they want to really push it.

Just like guys say taht 10,000rpms is reliable in an NA car, its not, i dont give a fuck who does it. Johnzm revved his STOCK block b16 to 10,000rpms for over a year, doesnt mean ill say its reliable.

make sense?

I really do not care about your a/f charts, because the odds are they are measured on the dyno wideband.

LOL an what else would you like me to use? a uego? PLX? HONDATA? our dyno wideband is MUCH more accurate than any other wideband, sorry. Matter of fact, we tuned a KPRO car last week, an his wideband on hondata was 1.5 points OFF from our dyno on the LEAN side. so had we used his wideband, it would have probably gotten us in trouble. We replace our wideband every 3-6 months, i HIGHLY doubt regular customers replace it that often.

Tuning is not the problem, the factory motor is

[B18c1Turboed]

Lances b16 turbo 10psi popped ringlands the second he went above 12psi
Jerrys ITR (same ringlands as b16 pistons) popped 1 month after he boosted it at 10psi
Mikes 2000 civic si blew within 1 week of 8psi of boost (popped ringlands)
Kevins b16 exploded a valve with a 75 shot of nitrous
Seans 00 Civic si popped after 3 months, ringlands collapsed
Reggies B16 DA popped ringlands after 2 weeks of 10psi

Wow all those motors on such low boost, obviously something else is wrong.
I would like to add me into this mix KNowledge Performance tuned my 1st motor this is before there was a ISP crew and i dynoed 320 on 18lbs on a Gsr motor,I beat the Hell out of that motor also, so obviously theres another proplem know we have a totally diffrent tuner Kevin and he never blew my motor.
I understand you stand behing your tuner and you should but there is another proplem, MIke i have a quick question who own MSP? becasue you make it sound like you can fire scotty if you didnt like him, just wondering did you buy in too that shop?

[Vteckidd]

AS i said, i can post a/f graphs and timing tables of those cars if you want.

TUNING IS NOT THE PROBLEM. its the stock motor, sorry fellas, hate to burst your bubbles. an if you noticed, they were all B16 motors, you guys are saying GSRs make over 300whp. Show me a b16 that makes over 300whp an has lasted longer than 6 monmths an ill be impressed.

GSRs have thicker ringlands, they can last longer under boost, but i still wouldnt say they are reliable over 300whp, sorry

Scotty is a subcontractor that works for us. Same with Turbo Dave Fabrications. We have a good relationship with both contractors, and they arent going anywhere anytime soon.

As far as my role within MSPi, im shop manager,marketing, parts, PR. Charles is my boss, but as far as ownership, thats between me an our board of directors.

what does that have to do with anytinhg?

[B18c1Turboed]

As far as my role within MSPi, im shop manager,marketing, parts, PR. Charles is my boss, but as far as ownership, thats between me an our board of directors.

what does that have to do with anytinhg?

Oh i was just wondering becasue in a previous post you said,If i didnt like scotty tunning i would get rid of him.So i was just curious if you had it like that.that was it!!
But i never heard of a board of directors for a repair shop!!