glad to see the bitching has settled down for a minute....
glad to see the bitching has settled down for a minute....
The EMPIRE
Originally Posted by boostedb16
Thats the dumbest thing i ever read, why would u sell the hondata to accomadate a tuner? It would be cheaper for you to go get tuned on the hondata and be done with it whjy change EMS
I have seen this going on alot a certain tuner cant tune it or dont know how so he talks customers into selling there EMS and getting Uberdata or Chrome to me thats plain stupid!!
Dido. Now Quiet down, the Babies are sleep. LOL!!! Mike Glad to see you back on with yet agian useful and informative things to keep car running. Also I'm glad you unlocked the thread cuz I was going to tell Jamie(Built H23accord-T) while he was up there yesterday to tell you that wasn't cool, but I know why you did it, off of principle.
"I be on the that Boostanite"
Well lets look at price break down. Assuming both cars are OBD2, need an OBD1 ecu
Tuning with HONDATA
Taken from: http://hondata.com/s200.html
Hondata S200 $295
Boost Option $200
Launch Control $50
Datalogging $50
Chip ECU $75 takes 4-5 days
Used P28 $100
Tuning a boosted car 2.5 hours x$150 (rough estimate, most cars with mild setups only take that long. I assuming Balanced charges $150 form what i have heard, i MAY BE WRONG)
TOTAL:$1145.00
Tuning with CHROMEPRO
Chipped P28,P30,P72 ECU with basemap from Scotty $180
Boost option FREE
Launch Control FREE
Datalogging $20
Tuning a boosted car 2.5 hours x$140 (MSPi rate)
TOTAL:$550.00
Roughly half the price for the exact same results. We dont make people sell their EMS systems to run ours, nor do we bad mouth the other systems. What we tell them is "we are not authorized to tune Hondata S200, we can do S300. IF you have S200 you need to contact Balanced Performance or Knowledge Performance, otherwise youll have to switch to one of our systems if you want to tune with us".
9/10 times they switch because its more cost effective, people have seen the results from Chrome and Uberdata , and know that its just as competitive and user friendly and capable as Hondata. And 9/10 times they can sell their Hondata for $300 with the boost option and put that money towards tuning, so yes its easier on the wallet for some people.
its all PERSONAL PREFERENCE. They both do the EXACT SAME THING. THe only time i would reccomend Hondata is if someone had nitrous. They have OUTSTANDING Nitrous controls which Chrome lacks. Other than that, unless your going for 800-900whp, id stick with Chrome. Hondata is proven beyond the 700+whp territory, Chrome is not, but not many people roll through here shooting for that much power.
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and just to clarify, im not trying to start anything at all, so cool down before you pop off at me danny.
im not bashing hondata, just offering another point of view, lets avoid the shit that happend yesterday please
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Hmm..sorry..I am not ISP..I am St. Marlo Ghetto Tuning....
what ever man...you're DAD RACINGHmm..sorry..I am not ISP..I am St. Marlo Ghetto Tuning....
DRILLING ASIAN DENTISTRY
BTW...spoolin...we never said we were a "BIG BAD TEAM." I dont know if we're a "RACE TEAM" but friends that always helps each other out.
In drag racing there are egos and some shit talking but damn..this thread is funny.
94 Supra= 500rwhp
well i already had hondata s200 w/boost option and chipped ecu and conversion harness, and after all of that it was still going to cost me $800.00 so yea i sold my hondata for $400.00 and i am going with chrome. so figure up mikes cost plus mine and then you tell me i was dumb for going a differant direction.
NICE TO MEET U ST. MARLO GHETTO TUNING of DAD RACING. IM BTEC of PSA TUNING. I DNT HAVEA RACE TEAM YET.Hmm..sorry..I am not ISP..I am St. Marlo Ghetto Tuning....
and had you stayed with hondata, im sure you would still have been very satisfied, you would just have to spend alot more money.
see you soon
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NICE TO MEET U ST. MARLO GHETTO TUNING of DAD RACING. IM BTEC of PSA TUNING. I DNT HAVEA RACE TEAM YET.
BTEC = Bee's Turbo Engineering CrewLOL
94 Supra= 500rwhp
NAw no biggie, im just stating he already has the system then why change?
Yes Chrome is cheaper than hondata no question there,but why sell a good system just so one tuner can tune it. Keep in mind scvotty ids the only person who tunes chrome or uberdata he moves everyone in ATL is fucked!!
DNT BE CONBLAMINATING MY NAME LIKE THAT. LOLBTEC = Bee's Turbo Engineering Crew
NOT ME. LOL!!!!!!
since its open source, anyone with the hardware can tune it. Ed could prob tune it if he wanted to. Batlground can tune it, Topspeed can tune it.
What if knowledge an balanced shut down, then everyone with hondata is fucked lol. Cause without an authorized dealer, you cant tune the S200
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good point.
also, i dont think someone with a mild build would need 2step.....cause they'll break trannies and axles.
Tuning with HONDATA
Taken from: http://hondata.com/s200.html
Hondata S200 $295
Boost Option $200
Launch Control $50
Datalogging $50
Chip ECU $75 takes 4-5 days
Used P28 $100
Tuning a boosted car 2.5 hours x$150 (rough estimate, most cars with mild setups only take that long. I assuming Balanced charges $150 form what i have heard, i MAY BE WRONG)
TOTAL:$1145.00
no more s200 really....just s300
so....
S300 =$600
Chippnig=$50
Total= $650 + tunning of atleast 1hour min at $150 /hr
BTW mike, you forgot to add cost of ecu with Scotty. I remember asking him a few months back for an ecu and he said something of the $200 range.
there are a few guys from AL that can tune s200
Last edited by dirty_cars; 08-18-2006 at 11:01 AM.
94 Supra= 500rwhp
S300 =$600
Chippnig=$75 (PER hondatas website)
Used P28 ECU $100
Tuning 2.5hoursx$150=375.00
TOTAL:$1150
no i didntBTW mike, you forgot to add cost of ecu with Scotty. I remember asking him a few months back for an ecu and he said something of the $200 range.
that includes the ECU. Your right though, i think he charges $200-225 for the P72s because of the knock board, an since you have an H22, thats the ideal ecu you would need.
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thats just plain COLD BLOODED
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Not really! Thats why we all run S300 now, and we have a dyno we can use anytime, THANKS AAP ALSO!!!
And im sure its harder for 2 shops in Atl too close down than loose one tuner!!
thats why i said S200
Does hondata offer their existing customers the option to upgrade their old S200 systems to S300 for a small fee?
just curious
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upgrade from s200 to s300 is....buy a brand new s300 LOL... i dont think its upgradebale like the old stage 1,2,3,and 4's
94 Supra= 500rwhp
Too be honest i wouldnt know, i didnt worry about it.I sold my S200 for what the s300 cost me. As a matter of fact you still owe me my disk that where not in the box when i got the s300 from you!! hmmmmmmmmmm...
im sure you can upgrade the uberdata and chrome for free,why? becasue the systems are free to begin with.so what you charge for is socketing teh ecu and stuff. So with chrome yes u can upgrade for Free because it was Free to start with!!
I still have the box here i think, ill look in a min
Well we run CHROME PRO which is $180. We bought the software but upgrade everyone to it for free. If someone wanted to tune regular Chrome or uberdata its free off pgmfi.orgim sure you can upgrade the uberdata and chrome for free,why? becasue the systems are free to begin with.so what you charge for is socketing teh ecu and stuff. So with chrome yes u can upgrade for Free because it was Free to start with!!
But Chrome Pro which has 5 bar map capability, ITB tools, Map and TPS based tables is $180
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my 2cents....you guys are like women... bitch bitch bitch
The EMPIRE
no ones bitching.
hurry up an get to work fucker, we have cars to finish
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theres a guy name chris in dalton or calhoun that tunes s200 but like i said "$800.00". thats why i will drive 45 minutes to mainstream and get mine tuned.
nah i think the bitches have left, now we can talk boosting and tuning with out whinning about whos shop is better, because i think both shops are able two tune,install turbos or swap engines if not they would not be in buisness.
YEAH SO HAVE U SET UP THE APPT TO GET UR CAR TUNED AND MAKE SOME REAL POWUH?
Well dumbass i dont own a shop, and im not the one that needs help trying to decied what EMS to go with becasue im a broke ass and cant afford shit!!
YEa talk that smack you slow ass bitch that wont even hit 229 according to mike before your motor blows up!!!haha
Anything under 300Hp isnt real power!! SHit my old maxima made 280hp i guess that was real power for you also!!
Once again, i said 230whp is reliable, i wouldnt trust a b16 PAST that, if he wants to make more, ill push it. it may last it may not.
/thread because now, officially, its going nowhere
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WHY ARE U STILL GOING AT IT? 230 IS BETTER THAN THE POSSIBLE 200 HE MIGHT BE MAKING NOW SO HELL FEEL A DIFFERENCE. LET IS GO DOOD.
because even with a DRAGII or III kit (takin it back old skool) those are shameful numbers back in those days. what makes you think any one would be happy with 230 whp when 300 whp is totally fine on todays motors with good tuning, conservative timing and nice straight AFR's
its almost unspeakable now days to admit you only got 230whp with a turbo stock gsr motor just because anything more is not reliable.
no, what it is though.. these shops are SAYING that anything more than 230 whp is NOT reliable because they are trying to protect them selves by giving them selves a BUFFER with numbers. so fingers cant be pointed at them etc etc..
its either that.. or lack of knowledge and experience to push the envelope..
and honestly 300 hp is not even close to pushing the envelope on stock block GSR motor anymore. maybe 2-3 years ago when people were starting with DSM injectors stock MAP sensor and SAFC/VAFC tunes.
Mike if you made as much as you id on a NA motor which was what over 240 right? to the wheels
then making 230 whp with turbo i dont care if it was with a tiny greddy TD05 turbo is just pathetic.
that kind of gain is not even worth spending all the money on stand alone or hondata piggy backs when the kind of tuning is available today that can run a boosted stock motor for miles and mies as long as standard maintence is kept up and yo dont OVER BOOST whch i havea feeling was probably the case in more than one of the cars you claimed to have failed over 250whp in your past replies.
Nikon D300s|SB900|Nikkor 70-200 f2.8 VR I| Tamron 17-50 f2.8
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE B16.
NO we where talking about B series motor in general. As i recall the topic was BEST BOOSTED b series motor!!
FOR A MINUTE I THINK WE GOT STRICTLY ON THE B16 AND 230 HP. BUT I REALLY DNT CARE BC IM GOING HM AND MY CAR IS THE FASTEST IN THE GALAXY.BITCHIZ!!!!!!
i understand. but i am 100% confident in B16 having reliable 300 whp every day wit no issues as well.
yes tey have weaker ring lands but BOOST doesnt kill ringlands, DETONATION does. and detonation comes from the tune, gas used, and over boosting due to shitty boost controller, terrbile connections with shitty rubber/silicone hoses. for the wastegate/boost source.
if you have a sound turbo setup on a B16 weather its 1st gen/2nd gen B16 motors and good hose connections and nice conservative tune with good EMS then making 300 whp is every bit as safe as running 230 whp.
i would be ashamed to say "yes my car is turboed and i have 230whp"
Nikon D300s|SB900|Nikkor 70-200 f2.8 VR I| Tamron 17-50 f2.8
STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER TO THIS
Once again for the LAST TIME
I said b16 motors have WEAKER RINGLANDS, THEY SEEM TO FAIL PAST 230-250whp.
A stock GSR I would think is safe around 280whp, i would not call a 300whp STOCK BLOCK RELIABLE. Although it has and can be done.
I never said "it cant be done, your dynoes are bullshit, etc" i merely stated taht i think its not RELIABLE as in you can drive it for 2 years beat the shit out of it an it wont ever break. I never said its not possible.
Considering most guys go from :
135Whp B16 or 145whp stock GSR to 230-250whp with one of our turbo kits, they are more than happy with the power increase. we dont build DRAG cars, we build STREET cars that the customers can have fun with, not do alot of maintanence, worry free, etc.
Occasionally with someone like SPOOLIN or ILOVEBOOST we get to push the limits and run 30psi through some motors. But if you know mainstream, you know thats not our CORE group of customers. We build a shit ton of fun, reliable, street cars. We build what customers want. If someone wants a 400whp stock GSR, we'll do it, but i would advise the customer to make sure he has money to rebuild it cause it wont last. Most of the time people arent lookning for that kind of power. they want hassle free power. best bang for the buck.
Look at Tunerfest, we didnt have 2 10 sec cars, we had 25 12-15 sec cars. Had spoolin been there we would have had 11 sec car. I really dont care if our cars ever go into the 10s,9s, 8s. Thats not what we build, not saying we cant build it, but its not our main focus. Honest truth is we all have cars capable of 600whp + , but we literally dont have the TIME to work on them we are so busy with customers cars.
Comparing my $8000 ALL MOTOR sleeved, built professionally, forged rods an pistons motor to a stock B16 is not even right lol If someone had my NA motor but with 9.5:1 slugs in it, i would be happy to rev it to 9800 with 30psi of boost.
Who is happy with a 230whp turbo setup? lots of poeple, 100whp increase over stock is ALOT of power. Not everyone is making 500-800whp turbo cars. Some guys want street cars without the big laggy powerband. A t3 Super 60 on a stock GSR is WAY MORE FUN to drive than a T3/T4 60trim on a stock motor. Sure the t3/t4 makes more power, but which is MORE FUN TO DRIVE, the T3 is. cause it spools at 3500rpms and makes peak tq across till redline. Not everone is in search of big numbers. some just want a fun car to drive.
I think thats really waht all this is about. UNDER PRESSURE has no doubt set the bar HIGH an so has ISP. They have always had big numbers, fast cars. Alot of them are PERSONAL cars or Friends cars. But thats TOTALLY different from what the subject at hand is.
The subject was, whats the best boosted b series motor. The asnwer is a GSR, it can handle 300whp+. A b16, if you think can hold over 300whp every single day, id love to see one last longer than 3 months. Dont confuse my B16 statements with my GSR statements. You and danny are both doing that.
For me to reccomend to a CUSTOMER what a STOCK motor can handle, the answer is 100-130whp over stock, drive it, enjoy it. My PERSONAL car, i would have no problems running 400whp through it, but if it pops, i can fix it cheaply, others dont have that luxury. Thats my opinion, if you think thats ludicrous and we dont know what we are doing, THAT IS PERFECTLY FINE BY ME. feel free to reccomend Ed, Jesus, God, Bernie Man , whoever you want. That is your right as a CONSUMER.
Cheers, and good luck on your M3 sean, never got to say how badass it is
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About 3.5yrs ago I was running 15psi on my bone stock ITR motor for like a year or so, making 300+whp, then was sold, ran nitrous through it for a good bit, and now back to stock, and still running...How much more reliable do you want...hmmmm
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