German Muscle vs. Japanese Hustle (335i vs IS350)

[Mike Lowrey]

My m3 is pretty damn good. It has 0-60 times comparable with Large American V8s. It can out handle many cars triple its price. 97 it won best handling car at any price. Beat a 355, viper, prelude SH(this won for under 20 or 25 i think) and an NSX(OMG NO WAY?!?!?!) It is a drivers race stock verse stock to a NSX.

I call BS. When did the M3 "outhandle" an NSX? LOL What were the criteria? Where is the data? This is funny. Face it, the M3 is a "sports sedan" NOT a sports car.

I know I come off like a douche bag and that is fine. The problem is 7/8th of you guys have never driven an M3 or a 3 series and yet you call me a nut swinger. Well drive the car like it is meant to be driven and then make a comparison. Come drive an M3 at Road Atlanta and see what the car is really about. Don't arm chair debate on the internet through here say and call me a nut swinger.

OK. When is the next BMW day @ Road Atlanta? I would love to run that track.

[DinanM3atl]

Haha. First off you are retarded. The m3 is a spots coupe first and foremost. It was offered for only 3 years as a sedan. So calling it a "sports sedan" is stupid. Just now they are going to have a sedan version. And if you don't think an M3 is a sports car I don't know what is wrong with you. What is the criteria for a "sports car" then?

The NSX is not all that great. It is not that fast and barely lighter(by 20 lbs) to an M3 from 99 and my car wasn't designed as "super light weight"

http://www.m3zine.com/index.php?opti...d=14&Itemid=45


Scroll down. Here are some "excerpts for you"

"The M3 possesses uncanny roadgoing ability. This is the most-agile car here. The steering eagerly bites into corners and is alive with feel. "Constantly talking to my fingers," wrote Csere. It latches onto a line in corners as if on a mission from God. Webster: "Rolls gracefully into curves at a constant rate and goes right where you point it."

.... So, what's the best-handling car at any price? ...It's an eight-horn salute to the BMW M3 as "the best-handling car."



Hmmm M3 was faster in EVERY Corner. And it was actually an NSX-T. Wow 6 mphs faster in 1 corner.

There is a link to the whole article if you want to read it. Whicah car should I buy. A used M3 for 15 or a used NSX for 50.

[OneSlow5pt0]

now ur on crack to say the M3 is best handling car for the $$

[DinanM3atl]

Am I? Car and Driver said it not me But thanks.


I do love how no one has chimed in and said "Yah I drove an M3 and was unimpressed." Again, 7/8th of you have never even driven one yet you bash on them. How they are "overpriced" and I can beat one with less money in my "car x".

Go drive one. Buy one and mod it and drive it and THEN you can make an opinion.

I drove an NSX. Unimpressed. For 90K new you got ripped the fuck off. Buy a Porsche 911 turbo for that kind of money.

[OneSlow5pt0]

also the only BMW thats a sports car is the Z series

[OneSlow5pt0]

Am I? Car and Driver said it not me But thanks.

guess Elises cant turn corners

[DinanM3atl]

also the only BMW thats a sports car is the Z series

Define sports car. You sound like a retard.

guess Elises cant turn corners

No elise in the US in 97 but nice try. Work yourself deeper into the hole.

[OneSlow5pt0]

Define sports car. You sound like a retard.



No elise in the US in 97 but nice try. Work yourself deeper into the hole.

i can safely say ur more biased then any hondahead on this site.

a M3 = sports coupe and sports sedan

[OneSlow5pt0]

also do some research

elise came out in 96

[DinanM3atl]

i can safely say ur more biased then any hondahead on this site.

a M3 = sports coupe and sports sedan

Ok dude. Quit dodging the questions.

1. What defines a sports car?

2. What makes an M3 not a sports car?

3. Have you driven an M3?

[DinanM3atl]

also do some research

elise came out in 96

Really. Where would Car and Driver get that car here in the states in 96? Go down to a Lotus dealer and buy one.

You really are digging your hole deeper and deeper.

[DeutscheBAG!]

Ok dude. Quit dodging the questions.

1. What defines a sports car?

2. What makes an M3 not a sports car?

3. Have you driven an M3?

my turn up to bat.

most of you that know me, know that i'll bash BMW up and down in every single way possible.( im an AUDI nut)

but, i got to give them their props..the M3 was one of 3 cars i driven that gave me one of the biggest grins on my face. i had the oppurtunity to drive a friends e36 on a mountain runs years back and seen what they can really do on some serious roads when i lived in germany.

the m3 is one of the cars and apparently a lot of you have proved it in this thread by your arrogance, is a car that many strive to be.

and to think, this started off as a 335 v IS350 but now, its japan vs.germany.
(who in their right mind considers a 335 german muscle?)

theyre both great cars but now since were on the subect of bmw vs lexus. i must say, although i loves lexus, they been kind of bland in styling and when driving..
people just don't think( at least in the states) of lexus as anything but sporty..( putting on my flame suit)but as pure luxury.( before u bite my head off about lexuses(lexi) racing etc..remember, your average lexus owner has no friggin clue)

BMW is WORLD-known for its motorsports divisions and its luxury cars..even morons that really dont care for sportscar and racing know what a M car is.

so, on that note..let me get a lil more off course that this thread, the IS-F looks impressive for a 100k toyota( sorry but the average yank that will be able to afford this car is gonna overlook this car if its not badge as a lexus.it'll help them sleep better at night ) like i said, the IS-F looks impressive but at least let the girl get on the floor to see if she can dance.

see some of you in the ballroom in 2009

sincerely,
a guy that still will continue to trash BMW's

[ISAtlanta300]

my turn up to bat.

most of you that know me, know that i'll bash BMW up and down in every single way possible.( im an AUDI nut)

but, i got to give them their props..the M3 was one of 3 cars i driven that gave me one of the biggest grins on my face. i had the oppurtunity to drive a friends e36 on a mountain runs years back and seen what they can really do on some serious roads when i lived in germany.

the m3 is one of the cars and apparently a lot of you have proved it in this thread by your arrogance, is a car that many strive to be.

and to think, this started off as a 335 v IS350 but now, its japan vs.germany.
(who in their right mind considers a 335 german muscle?)

theyre both great cars but now since were on the subect of bmw vs lexus. i must say, although i loves lexus, they been kind of bland in styling and when driving..
people just don't think( at least in the states) of lexus as anything but sporty..( putting on my flame suit)but as pure luxury.( before u bite my head off about lexuses(lexi) racing etc..remember, your average lexus owner has no friggin clue)

BMW is WORLD-known for its motorsports divisions and its luxury cars..even morons that really dont care for sportscar and racing know what a M car is.

so, on that note..let me get a lil more off course that this thread, the IS-F looks impressive for a 100k toyota( sorry but the average yank that will be able to afford this car is gonna overlook this car if its not badge as a lexus.it'll help them sleep better at night ) like i said, the IS-F looks impressive but at least let the girl get on the floor to see if she can dance.

see some of you in the ballroom in 2009

sincerely,
a guy that still will continue to trash BMW's

I've got to give you props for one of the more serious posts in here. Very nice opinion without the arrogance and bashing of brands.

However, I need to correct you that the '$100.000' toyota you talk about may be the LF-A.... the Lexus supercar, which is different than the IS-F. The IS-F will be offered at around the $ 50.000 mark. The IS-F is the performance version of the IS350, which already has an impressive 306 hp. The IS-F is slated to be over +400HP, which again, is impressive cosidering the (projected) price.

Two different cars, at different prices.

Oh, and here.. see the girl dance....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGzxddyrwZk

coming to the ballroom in 2008, actually.

Not bad as the first 'performace' model... it could only get better from here.

[DinanM3atl]

Yup... so it can do burnouts and slide off the track coming onto the front straight. Those people sure were excited to see some burnouts. WTF



I can't wait for it to be released and the M3 Four Door to spank it. Back to the drawing board. On top of that its PURE SIZE almost makes it more M5 competition which would be a joke.

Where did Toad man go? All that shit talking and he got owned over and over and continued to dig his hole deeper. Then he just leaves. What a tool.

[OneSlow5pt0]

Yup... so it can do burnouts and slide off the track coming onto the front straight. Those people sure were excited to see some burnouts. WTF



I can't wait for it to be released and the M3 Four Door to spank it. Back to the drawing board. On top of that its PURE SIZE almost makes it more M5 competition which would be a joke.

Where did Toad man go? All that shit talking and he got owned over and over and continued to dig his hole deeper. Then he just leaves. What a tool.

what shit talking?

i never once said BMWs were bad cars....id take BMW over lexus,and i drive a toyota

but i dont hold them as the greatest cars ever...the M3 is a damn good car,but its not the best ever...and i said AMG are making way more power compared to M power.arent they?


and i said the 328 is uncomfortable,thats just me....its to upright,imo...i like my legs to be straight and low cockpit....like driving a corvette or RX-7.

[ISAtlanta300]

Yup... so it can do burnouts and slide off the track coming onto the front straight. Those people sure were excited to see some burnouts. WTF

I can't wait for it to be released and the M3 Four Door to spank it. Back to the drawing board. On top of that its PURE SIZE almost makes it more M5 competition which would be a joke.

Where did Toad man go? All that shit talking and he got owned over and over and continued to dig his hole deeper. Then he just leaves. What a tool.

Why don't you just wait until it is released before you start nuthugging the M? I am sure that if it happened to SPANK the M3 in the quarter you would prob. say something like 'yup, but it still can't handle like the M', "it's still ugly', 'it doesn't have a stick' wawaaa boo booo

Pure size? you're joking right? Ever sat in an IS350? it's more of a coupe than a sedan. A coupe with 4 doors.

All i'm saying is give the car its due respect. They have managed to come very far in just a couple of years. who would have thought that the IS would someday have best in class hp when it was released? Who would have thought Lexus would produce a 400+hp monster? they did not HAVE to do it, you know... they make enough money with their current lineup....

the main article is proof enough... yeah yea Hustle vs. Muscle.. whatever. the IS350 DID make BMW's sphincter pucker-up, or that comparo wouldn't exist.

[Jaimecbr900]

These damn debates always end up the same. For some reason, some BMW owners can't handle anyone saying anything negative about the "ultimate driving machine"...

#1. This debate wasn't even started nor did it ever mention the "M" series AT ALL. It was 335i vs IS350. THAT was it. How come the BMW nutswingers have to always rely on the ONLY bullet that noone can dispute, the "M"? Great, so the "M" is a badass car most of the time.....SO??? Is the 335i an "M"???? NOOOOOO. So why bring it up? Apples to 747's, way to go Einstein.

#2. How in the world can you slober all over yourself when you try to defend the already KNOWN prowess of an "M3" by saying you have to DRIVE one to understand it when you yourself have obviously NOT driven the car being discussed....the Lexus IS350??? Hello Kettle, my name is POT...

This argument is stupid. Of course an "M" anything is badass, damn it SHOULD be. It is after all the top of their respective line, right? If it wasn't, then BMW has no business being in the car world. The regular 3 series is NOT an "M". Never has been, never will be. It may be it's little brother or second cousin twice removed, but it ISN'T an "M". Argue with that.

I still stand by my one and only statement: It is not a fair comparo to pit an N/A car that is supposed to be in the same class against it's adversary which is FI. It just isn't even if the raw data numbers seem to used to justify it. An FI car will have inherent attributes that an N/A motor (of equal or lesser value ) can't have. Don't bring in monster domestic motors into it either. That's not what we're talking about here.

Indisputable data:

BEFORE the intro of the TWIN TURBO 335i, what was the 3 series non "M" BMW to the IS350??? Was it still the "ultimate driving machine"? It was underpowered and outclassed. Fast forward to 07 and now look.....what's the BIG difference???? TWIN TURBOS. How about we compare N/A to N/A in the exact same lines? How about a comparo between the 328 and the IS350? 70+ HP and 70+ TQ for the IS350. How do you think the BMW will compare then??? And that is with BMW's "new and improved and more powerful than ever" I6. N/A to N/A there is no comparo.

So just like I said, BMW nutswingers are bragging about how the 335i so much better performance wise than an IS350, yet it took TWIN TURBOS to do it.

I'll say it again for all the haters and nutswingers. The 335i looks to be an exceptional car. I've not drove one YET, but I'm sure I'll be happy when I finally do. I've driven the IS350 quite a bit. I'll be happy to compare them to each other. As a matter of fact, Lexus drive event is coming in October. Unlike other manufacturers, Lexus brings brand new factory COMPETITORS cars for everyone to compare side-by-side. I'm sure they'll bring the 335i then. I'll thrash the crap out of it and wager my opinion on it. Until then.... .....It took TWIN TURBOS to get the same numbers that an N/A motor got....you wanna swing off that, cool.

[DeutscheBAG!]

I've got to give you props for one of the more serious posts in here. Very nice opinion without the arrogance and bashing of brands.

However, I need to correct you that the '$100.000' toyota you talk about may be the LF-A.... the Lexus supercar, which is different than the IS-F. The IS-F will be offered at around the $ 50.000 mark. The IS-F is the performance version of the IS350, which already has an impressive 306 hp. The IS-F is slated to be over +400HP, which again, is impressive cosidering the (projected) price.

Two different cars, at different prices.

Oh, and here.. see the girl dance....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGzxddyrwZk

coming to the ballroom in 2008, actually.

Not bad as the first 'performace' model... it could only get better from here.

my bad, u are correct sir..got my lexi confused

[cyb593]

lexus all the way

[d993s]

Lexus: all the GAY!

[BlkCD5]

Yup, Lexus is gay cus it constantly keeps the euro market of luxury/sports car engineers at the table.

[d993s]

Yup, Lexus is gay cus it constantly keeps the euro market of luxury/sports car engineers at the table.

Wouldn't you try to rid yourself of a constant pest, a copycat, a very annoying unwanted wannabe-friend that follows you around and tries to be like you?
That's what Lexus is to BMW. Sad and lame, but true.

[Mike Lowrey]

Wouldn't you try to rid yourself of a constant pest, a copycat, a very annoying unwanted wannabe-friend that follows you around and tries to be like you?
That's what Lexus is to BMW. Sad and lame, but true.

Except that "lame" friend actually knows how to engineer a car that is not is the shop more than the owners driveway.

[d993s]

Except that "lame" friend actually knows how to engineer a car that is not is the shop more than the owners driveway.

And Americans are capable of building cars that get 200mpg while doing 10 second 1/4 mile times and lasting 100 years. Are they making them? Hell no! What would that do to the economy?
There's not much $ to be made with something that's "too reliable". Most cars these days are purposely built as a disposable money pit.

Just like each medical system across the world, no matter how good or bad it is......there's no possible further profit if a cure is found for a disease. That's why some diseases have been brought back from their "no risk" status. Ever heard of "the last case of such and such", etc, etc?

[DinanM3atl]

Why don't you just wait until it is released before you start nuthugging the M? I am sure that if it happened to SPANK the M3 in the quarter you would prob. say something like 'yup, but it still can't handle like the M', "it's still ugly', 'it doesn't have a stick' wawaaa boo booo

Pure size? you're joking right? Ever sat in an IS350? it's more of a coupe than a sedan. A coupe with 4 doors.

All i'm saying is give the car its due respect. They have managed to come very far in just a couple of years. who would have thought that the IS would someday have best in class hp when it was released? Who would have thought Lexus would produce a 400+hp monster? they did not HAVE to do it, you know... they make enough money with their current lineup....

the main article is proof enough... yeah yea Hustle vs. Muscle.. whatever. the IS350 DID make BMW's sphincter pucker-up, or that comparo wouldn't exist.

OMG THE QUARTER MILE! THE TELL ALL PERFORMANCE STAT!!!!!! HOLY SHIT!!! Now I know why my M3 Sucks!!!! It is slow at the quarter mile! Fuck!

BMW doesn't built cars for the drag strip. I know people on this site look at the 0-60 and the 1/4 mile stats first, oh and the Peak HP number because that is SUPER important!

Except that "lame" friend actually knows how to engineer a car that is not is the shop more than the owners driveway.

^

Never owned a BMW and prolly never will. So his brother's girlfriends dad had one and it broke down all the time. Oh and he read on the internet they break down all the time.

[DinanM3atl]

These damn debates always end up the same. For some reason, some BMW owners can't handle anyone saying anything negative about the "ultimate driving machine"...

Yah. Because false information is posted by a bunch of internet car jockies that have no business even discussing or insulting one car or the other.

#1. This debate wasn't even started nor did it ever mention the "M" series AT ALL. It was 335i vs IS350. THAT was it. How come the BMW nutswingers have to always rely on the ONLY bullet that noone can dispute, the "M"? Great, so the "M" is a badass car most of the time.....SO??? Is the 335i an "M"???? NOOOOOO. So why bring it up? Apples to 747's, way to go Einstein.

Why can't I compare it to an M? My 2 generation old M3 which can be had for 15-20K can spank the shit out of the IS350. But I guess that is a big no no. Let's continue on and compare it to a 3 series then.

#2. How in the world can you slober all over yourself when you try to defend the already KNOWN prowess of an "M3" by saying you have to DRIVE one to understand it when you yourself have obviously NOT driven the car being discussed....the Lexus IS350??? Hello Kettle, my name is POT...

I drove an is300. It is a shitbox. Why should I got drive the new one when they set a goal of 3 series beater and the is300 wasn't better than my 89 325i. There are 2 Japanese cars I have driven that I would consider worth my while. STI and Supra. Z cars are turds. Evo is a turd(Take that back. The overall car is a turd, the drivetrain is great.)

This argument is stupid. Of course an "M" anything is badass, damn it SHOULD be. It is after all the top of their respective line, right? If it wasn't, then BMW has no business being in the car world. The regular 3 series is NOT an "M". Never has been, never will be. It may be it's little brother or second cousin twice removed, but it ISN'T an "M". Argue with that.

Can't. It's not an M.

I still stand by my one and only statement: It is not a fair comparo to pit an N/A car that is supposed to be in the same class against it's adversary which is FI. It just isn't even if the raw data numbers seem to used to justify it. An FI car will have inherent attributes that an N/A motor (of equal or lesser value ) can't have. Don't bring in monster domestic motors into it either. That's not what we're talking about here.

Why? They compared the Audi S4 to the M3 of the last body style. Not fair. e46 M3 verse v8 s4. Not fair. S4 has v8. You sound like a honda guy.

Indisputable data:

BEFORE the intro of the TWIN TURBO 335i, what was the 3 series non "M" BMW to the IS350??? Was it still the "ultimate driving machine"? It was underpowered and outclassed. Fast forward to 07 and now look.....what's the BIG difference???? TWIN TURBOS. How about we compare N/A to N/A in the exact same lines? How about a comparo between the 328 and the IS350? 70+ HP and 70+ TQ for the IS350. How do you think the BMW will compare then??? And that is with BMW's "new and improved and more powerful than ever" I6. N/A to N/A there is no comparo. [/QUOTE]

So Lexus gets to bring the top of the linke IS(minus the F) but BMW has to bring the shittiest? That is fucking retarded. Let's just bring a 316i from Europe and compare that to the is350. It would only be fair. You again sound like thr typical IA user. Oh +70hp and +70lb/ft torque. Holy shit the MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT!!!! If you want to compare that shouldn't we compare the is250 to the 328i? The 350 vs the 335? What you are really saying is "Damn BMW engineers did something great and Lexus current car can't compete. UNFAIR COMPARISSON!!!" Bullshit.

No one said Lexus can't use a turbo or blower. This is why AMG always has more power. They are CHEATING with large displacement and blowers!

So just like I said, BMW nutswingers are bragging about how the 335i so much better performance wise than an IS350, yet it took TWIN TURBOS to do it.

Again. Honda guy mentality. "They cheated". My 99 M3 is better. An 02 M3(which can be had for 25,000... far less than the is350) is WAY better and makes MORE power N/A! Give me a break man. Quit getting mad that BMW used a turbo. Toyota cheated when they turbo'd the Supra. What cheaters. Otherwise their car wouldn't have been good. That just sounds stupid.

I'll say it again for all the haters and nutswingers. The 335i looks to be an exceptional car. I've not drove one YET, but I'm sure I'll be happy when I finally do. I've driven the IS350 quite a bit. I'll be happy to compare them to each other. As a matter of fact, Lexus drive event is coming in October. Unlike other manufacturers, Lexus brings brand new factory COMPETITORS cars for everyone to compare side-by-side. I'm sure they'll bring the 335i then. I'll thrash the crap out of it and wager my opinion on it. Until then.... .....It took TWIN TURBOS to get the same numbers that an N/A motor got....you wanna swing off that, cool.

This is retarded... hmmm let's see what BMW has done with 6 cylinders over the years since you seem to be nut swinging this motor so hard.

1988 S38 3.5L I-6 286 HP
1991 S38B38 3.8L I-6 340 HP
1994 S50B30 3.0L I-6 286 HP
1996 S50B32 3.2L I-6 321 HP
2001 S54 3.2L I-6 333 HP

So.... It took you guys 20 years to get to 300hp out of a 6 cylinder! Good Job guys!

On top of ALL of this... The 335 motor is WAY underrated. Claims 300hp on paper. It puts down ~285 to the wheels on the dyno. Do the math

[Mike Lowrey]

And Americans are capable of building cars that get 200mpg while doing 10 second 1/4 mile times and lasting 100 years. Are they making them? Hell no! What would that do to the economy?
There's not much $ to be made with something that's "too reliable". Most cars these days are purposely built as a disposable money pit.

Just like each medical system across the world, no matter how good or bad it is......there's no possible further profit if a cure is found for a disease. That's why some diseases have been brought back from their "no risk" status. Ever heard of "the last case of such and such", etc, etc?

You are a dumbass. Cars are not designed to be in the shop more than in the owners hands. That is called poor quality. GTFO douche.

[Jaimecbr900]

Look folks, you have one guy that SELLS German cars and parts and the other that OWNS a BMW.......why the hell does anyone think that either of them is going to be objective?

Like I said before, this is exactly what EVERY thread that remotely has BMW associated with it turns into. I wonder why that is????

If a car is not fast in a straight line, then it's not fast in a straight line. Don't look for excuses why it's not. It just is. Things in the rest of the non-BMW world work like that. You either fix it or move on, it's that simple. If you want to find that small window where YOUR particular car is just "awesome" and pitch a tent around that.....then don't complain when other people who don't choose to stick their head in the sand point out where your short comings are that you conviniently choose to gloss over. If you have a car that is good at only one thing, then it's a purpose built car....right? By definition, a purpose built car is only good at ONE maybe even TWO things. That means that if someone wants it to do THREE or FOUR things, it can't do it very well, right??? So all the complaining and whining in the world is not going to change that FACT. People want to try and re-invent the wheel when it's not necessary. Give credit where credit is due. Where it not for competition, many cars would still be carburated and all headliners would sag. No problem with having brand loyalty, unless that loyalty blinds you to give credit where credit is due.

Speaking of FACTS; Reliability is derived from NUMBERS. Numbers in any language still ADD up and SUBTRACT exactly the same. They are not subjective nor arbitrary. Just like above, they are what they are. Independent research shows what the REAL bottomline is when it comes to reliability between these two cars. The NUMBERS are there and they are CLEAR. BMW lovers can try to muddy up the water as much as they'd like, but unless 3rd grade MATH is trouble for you.....the NUMBERS don't lie. It doesn't matter if you're German or Japanese, 1 is one and 2 is two.

[Mike Lowrey]

^

Never owned a BMW and prolly never will.

At least you got something right!

So his brother's girlfriends dad had one and it broke down all the time. Oh and he read on the internet they break down all the time.

Actually, I know several people that have had numerous problems. That does not mean that all the cars have problems, but several do. Next?!

[Mike Lowrey]

BMW lovers can try to muddy up the water as much as they'd like, but unless 3rd grade MATH is trouble for you.....the NUMBERS don't lie. It doesn't matter if you're German or Japanese, 1 is one and 2 is two.

Unless it's BMW math!

[Jaimecbr900]

Yah. Because false information is posted by a bunch of internet car jockies that have no business even discussing or insulting one car or the other.

And since you're only claim to fame is driving an "M", I guess that makes you king ding-a-ling then, huh? That's what the ignore button is for on IA. You seem to get bent out of shape everytime we have this kind of discussion. Why not just ignore it and move on.

Why can't I compare it to an M? My 2 generation old M3 which can be had for 15-20K can spank the shit out of the IS350. But I guess that is a big no no. Let's continue on and compare it to a 3 series then.

OMG, get off it already. Ok, I'll play your dumbass game.

A 2nd Gen IS300 with a big ass turbo can be had for cheap too. Now what? BFD. I know personally of a friend of mine that had a TURBO IS300 that would run circles around YOUR "M" every day of the week and twice on Sunday. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China? Speaking of China, I KNOW there are gobs of modded Lexi in the Orient that would spank YOUR car too. Again, SO WHAT???? We can do this bullshit comparo of "MAYBE" cars all day long. Trust me I've seen and driven my fair share of RAGGED OUT POS M3's in my day. I wouldn't drive one of those rags if you paid me, but that goes the same for ANY ragged out POS. Your point is what??? You have no point because you're comparing apples to dingle berries.

Stick to the comparo. It's 335i vs IS350....not IS250, not 328, not IS300, not the venerable "M". Stick with it.

I drove an is300. It is a shitbox. Why should I got drive the new one when they set a goal of 3 series beater and the is300 wasn't better than my 89 325i. There are 2 Japanese cars I have driven that I would consider worth my while. STI and Supra. Z cars are turds. Evo is a turd(Take that back. The overall car is a turd, the drivetrain is great.)

Wait, wasn't it you....the all knowing all master car god....that said NOONE should opinionate on BMW's "if they've never OWNED one..."????

Just how many IS's have YOU OWNED to make you such an authority???? How many STI's, Supra's, Z's, and Evo's have YOU OWNED???? Yet, you have an opinion on them, huh???? Guess what's good for the goose is not good for the gander in your world.

Hello Kettle, my name is Pot.

Can't. It's not an M.

Then quit bringing the "M" up then.

Why? They compared the Audi S4 to the M3 of the last body style. Not fair. e46 M3 verse v8 s4. Not fair. S4 has v8. You sound like a honda guy.

Who's complaining now???? Just WHY isn't it fair????

BTW, I've never owned a Honda in my life. Shows how much you know.

So Lexus gets to bring the top of the linke IS(minus the F) but BMW has to bring the shittiest? That is fucking retarded.

NOW the cream rises to the top. Why is it retarded? So even you, the BMW god, now admit that the 3 series is "shitty"???? Be careful, your lifetime membership to the BMW nut swinger club may be in jeopardy here.

The IS-F and the new M3 I'm sure will be compared.

Let's just bring a 316i from Europe and compare that to the is350. It would only be fair. You again sound like thr typical IA user. Oh +70hp and +70lb/ft torque. Holy shit the MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT!!!! If you want to compare that shouldn't we compare the is250 to the 328i? The 350 vs the 335? What you are really saying is "Damn BMW engineers did something great and Lexus current car can't compete. UNFAIR COMPARISSON!!!" Bullshit.

My God are you ever gonna quit? The 316i is NOT sold in AMERICA, right??? So why compare them? This is not a Germany vs the world thing. You're so damn retarded its getting on my last damn nerve. You sound just like somebody who fights using their cousin's brother's neighbor who is an AFC champion. "Na, Na, boo, boo....Ima bring John Holmes to show you how big HIS dick is because MINE is too small.....":jerkit:

Get off this stupid ass comparing of cars that either aren't made anymore, are in someone's field somewhere waiting to be some kind of powerhouse, or aren't even made yet. It's retarded. It goes to show that if you can't fight fair, then maybe cheating is OK in your book. Get off it already. It's lame and old. That's the whole damn point. Compare apples to damn apples. N/A vs N/A, not N/A vs FI because I couldn't beat you with N/A.......damn.

No one said Lexus can't use a turbo or blower. This is why AMG always has more power. They are CHEATING with large displacement and blowers!

AMG is the top of the line Benz, right? "M" is the top of the line BMW, right? IS350 is the....wait, it's NOT the top of the line Lexus.....right???

Compare E320, 328, and IS350. Who'd win that? After next year, you can compare the IS-F, M3, and AMG. Until then, it's moot. You probably don't get that, do you?

My 99 M3 is better.

Than what and according to whom???

This is retarded... hmmm let's see what BMW has done with 6 cylinders over the years since you seem to be nut swinging this motor so hard.

1988 S38 3.5L I-6 286 HP
1991 S38B38 3.8L I-6 340 HP
1994 S50B30 3.0L I-6 286 HP
1996 S50B32 3.2L I-6 321 HP
2001 S54 3.2L I-6 333 HP

So.... It took you guys 20 years to get to 300hp out of a 6 cylinder! Good Job guys!

All M motors......hmmm, how nice. Reading is not your friend is it??? Wearing a helmet right now, aren't you? Have a bib on to catch all the slober, right?? Whatever man, you're hopeless.

[DinanM3atl]

Look folks, you have one guy that SELLS German cars and parts and the other that OWNS a BMW.......why the hell does anyone think that either of them is going to be objective?

Like I said before, this is exactly what EVERY thread that remotely has BMW associated with it turns into. I wonder why that is????

If a car is not fast in a straight line, then it's not fast in a straight line. Don't look for excuses why it's not. It just is. Things in the rest of the non-BMW world work like that. You either fix it or move on, it's that simple. If you want to find that small window where YOUR particular car is just "awesome" and pitch a tent around that.....then don't complain when other people who don't choose to stick their head in the sand point out where your short comings are that you conviniently choose to gloss over. If you have a car that is good at only one thing, then it's a purpose built car....right? By definition, a purpose built car is only good at ONE maybe even TWO things. That means that if someone wants it to do THREE or FOUR things, it can't do it very well, right??? So all the complaining and whining in the world is not going to change that FACT. People want to try and re-invent the wheel when it's not necessary. Give credit where credit is due. Where it not for competition, many cars would still be carburated and all headliners would sag. No problem with having brand loyalty, unless that loyalty blinds you to give credit where credit is due.

Speaking of FACTS; Reliability is derived from NUMBERS. Numbers in any language still ADD up and SUBTRACT exactly the same. They are not subjective nor arbitrary. Just like above, they are what they are. Independent research shows what the REAL bottomline is when it comes to reliability between these two cars. The NUMBERS are there and they are CLEAR. BMW lovers can try to muddy up the water as much as they'd like, but unless 3rd grade MATH is trouble for you.....the NUMBERS don't lie. It doesn't matter if you're German or Japanese, 1 is one and 2 is two.

But it is not faster.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/09/26/t...n-4-8-seconds/

"They managed a 4.8 to be exact on their way to a quarter in 13.5 seconds at 106 mph. In case you aren't paying close attention, that's what the current M3 does"

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106607

This article and writer is SO EXCITED that is is FASTER than the OLD 3 series. HAHHAHAHA Awesome. "Damn this new car is better than the competitions old car! We won!

" Whatever the cause, the car doesn't feel as fast as a 306-hp sedan should as it zips to 60 mph. It does, however, beat the last 330i and A4 we tested (both equipped with six-speed manual transmissions) by 0.5 and 1.6 seconds, respectively. It also blasted through the quarter-mile in 14.2 seconds, smoking the German competition by about the same 0.6 to 1.5 seconds."


335 13.5 1/4 mile
is350 14.2 1/4

[DinanM3atl]

Stick to the comparo. It's 335i vs IS350....not IS250, not 328, not IS300, not the venerable "M". Stick with it.

Ok this is comparison. Which the 350 lost.

Get off this stupid ass comparing of cars that either aren't made anymore, are in someone's field somewhere waiting to be some kind of powerhouse, or aren't even made yet. It's retarded. It goes to show that if you can't fight fair, then maybe cheating is OK in your book. Get off it already. It's lame and old. That's the whole damn point. Compare apples to damn apples. N/A vs N/A, not N/A vs FI because I couldn't beat you with N/A.......damn.

Why is having a car with a stock turbo "cheating".

AMG is the top of the line Benz, right? "M" is the top of the line BMW, right? IS350 is the....wait, it's NOT the top of the line Lexus.....right???

Nope. But you figure a new car would better a 10 year old "Ragged out POS as you call it"

Compare E320, 328, and IS350. Who'd win that? After next year, you can compare the IS-F, M3, and AMG. Until then, it's moot. You probably don't get that, do you?

Ok. So you lost comparing the top of the line 3 series verse the top of the line IS350. Excluding the IS-F and M3. Now since you lost that you want to compare the top of the line is350 and the bottom of the line 328i. Wouldn't the fair comparison be is250 verse 328i?

All M motors......hmmm, how nice. Reading is not your friend is it??? Wearing a helmet right now, aren't you? Have a bib on to catch all the slober, right?? Whatever man, you're hopeless.

You were claiming how awesome this 6 cylinder is being NA. Those are all BMW 6 cylinders. I don't see the problem.


I am out. This is pointless. You drive and love Lexus and I drive and love BMW.

Nothing will change.

[Mike Lowrey]

But it is not faster.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/09/26/t...n-4-8-seconds/

"They managed a 4.8 to be exact on their way to a quarter in 13.5 seconds at 106 mph. In case you aren't paying close attention, that's what the current M3 does"

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106607

This article and writer is SO EXCITED that is is FASTER than the OLD 3 series. HAHHAHAHA Awesome. "Damn this new car is better than the competitions old car! We won!

" Whatever the cause, the car doesn't feel as fast as a 306-hp sedan should as it zips to 60 mph. It does, however, beat the last 330i and A4 we tested (both equipped with six-speed manual transmissions) by 0.5 and 1.6 seconds, respectively. It also blasted through the quarter-mile in 14.2 seconds, smoking the German competition by about the same 0.6 to 1.5 seconds."


335 13.5 1/4 mile
is350 14.2 1/4

Let's see, so you take the slowest posted time for the IS350 to compare to the 335?

Do you BMW guys sit around sucking each others' dicks?

I have personally run a 13.4 in a stock IS350. There have been verified times as low as 13.3 for stock IS350's. That compares to a range of 13.2 - 13.6 in the 335. Let us compare fairly.

Not go find another M3 owner, so you can suck his cock.

[OneSlow5pt0]

man......BMWs are the dodoo

[DinanM3atl]

Let's see, so you take the slowest posted time for the IS350 to compare to the 335?

Do you BMW guys sit around sucking each others' dicks?

I have personally run a 13.4 in a stock IS350. There have been verified times as low as 13.3 for stock IS350's. That compares to a range of 13.2 - 13.6 in the 335. Let us compare fairly.

Not go find another M3 owner, so you can suck his cock.

I just searched and went with the first link.

Resort to calling people names and insulting me. Very mature. Have you considered being on a Debate team?

[BlkCD5]

can't believe this shit is still going on. The facts are in the article, but yet you're still in denial that Bmw can't be beat. It may not be entirely, but again lexus is doing a good job. I just hope one day I'll be able to test drive "the ultimate driving machine." and compare it to "the pursuit of perfection"

[ISAtlanta300]

OMG THE QUARTER MILE! THE TELL ALL PERFORMANCE STAT!!!!!! HOLY SHIT!!! Now I know why my M3 Sucks!!!! It is slow at the quarter mile! Fuck!

BMW doesn't built cars for the drag strip. I know people on this site look at the 0-60 and the 1/4 mile stats first, oh and the Peak HP number because that is SUPER important!

Hey, it is you talked about "can't wait for it to come out so the M3 would spank it".

I gave an example of IF it happened to spank it in the 1/4. we don't even know that yet.

Now all of a sudden "no it is not about the 1/4 mile".

You're too predictable Thanks for proving my point.

[BobbyFresco]

This is an endless argument....
No diff than the Ford vs Chevy rivalry and whatever other ones that may exist...
At the end of the day the only left to do is agree to disagree.....

[ISAtlanta300]

But it is not faster.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/09/26/t...n-4-8-seconds/

"They managed a 4.8 to be exact on their way to a quarter in 13.5 seconds at 106 mph. In case you aren't paying close attention, that's what the current M3 does"

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106607

This article and writer is SO EXCITED that is is FASTER than the OLD 3 series. HAHHAHAHA Awesome. "Damn this new car is better than the competitions old car! We won!

" Whatever the cause, the car doesn't feel as fast as a 306-hp sedan should as it zips to 60 mph. It does, however, beat the last 330i and A4 we tested (both equipped with six-speed manual transmissions) by 0.5 and 1.6 seconds, respectively. It also blasted through the quarter-mile in 14.2 seconds, smoking the German competition by about the same 0.6 to 1.5 seconds."


335 13.5 1/4 mile
is350 14.2 1/4

Funny how all of a sudden you won't use your beloved CAR AND DRIVER Magazine (like you did before to hail your oh so godly BMW) to accurately quote the IS350's numbers
AAANnnnd I quote:
"It also has 306 ponies from an all-new 3.5-liter V-6, enough to make 60 mph in 5.1 seconds and sear your quarter-mile in 13.7 seconds at 104 mph with a few flicks of the steering-wheel paddles controlling the six-speed automatic. Every other car here sucks its dust. Welcome to the most exuberant Lexus ever built."

Yeah. GTFout of here.

But but.. WAIT !!! Didn't you say that "OMFG QUARTER MILE !! BMW don't build cars for the drag strip !! WOWZERS WHO cares about quarter miles?" so then why bring up stats about the 335 quarter mile?

Again. GTFout of here.