German Muscle vs. Japanese Hustle (335i vs IS350)

[Mike Lowrey]

I just searched and went with the first link.

Resort to calling people names and insulting me. Very mature. Have you considered being on a Debate team?

No debate team for me. Just don't understand what it is to be a BMW nutswinger, and never will.

[DinanM3atl]

No debate team for me. Just don't understand what it is to be a BMW nutswinger, and never will.

You should think about it.

Just tell the other debater they suck dick. That will work.

[DinanM3atl]

Funny how all of a sudden you won't use your beloved CAR AND DRIVER Magazine (like you did before to hail your oh so godly BMW) to accurately quote the IS350's numbers
AAANnnnd I quote:
"It also has 306 ponies from an all-new 3.5-liter V-6, enough to make 60 mph in 5.1 seconds and sear your quarter-mile in 13.7 seconds at 104 mph with a few flicks of the steering-wheel paddles controlling the six-speed automatic. Every other car here sucks its dust. Welcome to the most exuberant Lexus ever built."

Yeah. GTFout of here.

But but.. WAIT !!! Didn't you say that "OMFG QUARTER MILE !! BMW don't build cars for the drag strip !! WOWZERS WHO cares about quarter miles?" so then why bring up stats about the 335 quarter mile?

Again. GTFout of here.

You GTFout. Did you read what I wrote? I guess not because I said "Sorry I just clicked on the first google link".

Funny how you talked shit and said "no way M3 beat an NSX" but you didn't even reply to that when I posted up the facts. Also I can't find where I said I had a boner for Car and Driver. They just happened to do the article in which the m3 tounced cars 2 and 3 times its price.(including an NSX-T which you said was bullshit. Then when I post an article with raw numbers(IE Corner speeds) you have nothing to say. Funny how that works)

I am not going to get into this again. Jaime and a few others are the only ones in here not calling people names and telling people to "Get The Fuck Out"(Wow that is mature) and telling me that "I need to go suck some BMW owners dick"(Again. How old are you?)

It is pointless. Grow up and learn how to post a coherent thought with some facts and figures. Telling someone to suck a dick just means you have nothing intelligent to say.

So GTFout.

[OneSlow5pt0]

i still cant figure out why we are talking bout M3s

[d993s]

You are a dumbass. Cars are not designed to be in the shop more than in the owners hands. That is called poor quality. GTFO douche.

Go tell that to some of the Ferrari guys, or most other exotics!

You have got to be a complete idiot to NOT know that cars nowadays are purposely built to have more problems and require more expensive repairs. Why do most V6 and V8 engines have 4 oxygen sensors when they can make do with only 2??? Why do they still make engines with timing belts that require to be changed at 50-60k intervals?
Didn't you see what happened with Mercedes quality when it was under Chrysler influence? The HP went up and the quality went to shit. But guess what? Sales went up! Disposable Mercedes!
It's all about making more profit. Some are just more greedy than others.

[ISAtlanta300]

You GTFout. Did you read what I wrote? I guess not because I said "Sorry I just clicked on the first google link".

Funny how you talked shit and said "no way M3 beat an NSX" but you didn't even reply to that when I posted up the facts.

Sorry, daisy. It wasn't me that said that. Strike one.

Also I can't find where I said I had a boner for Car and Driver. They just happened to do the article in which the m3 tounced cars 2 and 3 times its price.(including an NSX-T which you said was bullshit. Then when I post an article with raw numbers(IE Corner speeds) you have nothing to say. Funny how that works)

Which was what i was implying, you used car and driver then to make a point about the handling, but did not use car and driver's IS350 quarter mile numbers. Yea, funny how that works indeed. And again, I did not argue about the NSX/M3 article. Strike two.

I am not going to get into this again. Jaime and a few others are the only ones in here not calling people names and telling people to "Get The Fuck Out"(Wow that is mature) and telling me that "I need to go suck some BMW owners dick"(Again. How old are you?.

It is pointless. Grow up and learn how to post a coherent thought with some facts and figures. Telling someone to suck a dick just means you have nothing intelligent to say.

My age has nothing to do with this, but i am sure I am older than you. I have not "called you names" or asked to you to "suck some BMW owners' dick". You have me confused again, daisy.

Strike three.....GTFOutta here. Or get new glasses.

So GTFout

"Get The Fuck Out"(Wow that is mature) lol.

[ISAtlanta300]

The funny thing is that the original article in question is actually pretty good and accurate. Can't believe how it came to all this? Can't we all enjoy our awesome cars without having to resort to "mine is better than yours" ?

[Mike Lowrey]

Funny how you talked shit and said "no way M3 beat an NSX" but you didn't even reply to that when I posted up the facts. Also I can't find where I said I had a boner for Car and Driver. They just happened to do the article in which the m3 tounced cars 2 and 3 times its price.(including an NSX-T which you said was bullshit. Then when I post an article with raw numbers(IE Corner speeds) you have nothing to say. Funny how that works)

Post the lap yimes for each of the cars. All I see is corner speeds.

[Mike Lowrey]

Go tell that to some of the Ferrari guys, or most other exotics!

You have got to be a complete idiot to NOT know that cars nowadays are purposely built to have more problems and require more expensive repairs. Why do most V6 and V8 engines have 4 oxygen sensors when they can make do with only 2???

You are joking right?! Go buy a brain retard. Why do they have 4 O2 sensors?! V6 and V8's have two exhaust banks. Each bank has an O2 sensor before and after the catalytic converter. The first one determines AFR, the second verifies the catalytic converter is functioning properly. Last time I checked, that equals 4 sensors!

Door is that way. Use it.
---------------------------------------------->

Didn't you see what happened with Mercedes quality when it was under Chrysler influence? The HP went up and the quality went to shit. But guess what? Sales went up! Disposable Mercedes!
It's all about making more profit. Some are just more greedy than others.

You are dumb. Leave while that is all we think about you.

[d993s]

You are joking right?! Go buy a brain retard. Why do they have 4 O2 sensors?! V6 and V8's have two exhaust banks. Each bank has an O2 sensor before and after the catalytic converter. The first one determines AFR, the second verifies the catalytic converter is functioning properly. Last time I checked, that equals 4 sensors!

Door is that way. Use it.
---------------------------------------------->



You are dumb. Leave while that is all we think about you.

WTF?????? You are beyond stupid. I know how they are made and how they work, but you fail to understand he point!!!
They CAN use a 4-into-1 on each side, then use a Y-pipe to connect them, then use the 1 O2 sensorbefore the cat, and 1 after. That's just one example. MORON!!!

You must drive one of those dual exhaust Civics with 4 or 8 tips.......unnecessary.

[Mike Lowrey]

WTF?????? You are beyond stupid. I know how they are made and how they work, but you fail to understand he point!!!
They CAN use a 4-into-1 on each side, then use a Y-pipe to connect them, then use the 1 O2 sensorbefore the cat, and 1 after. That's just one example. MORON!!!

You must drive one of those dual exhaust Civics with 4 or 8 tips.......unnecessary.

And you fail to look at the whole picture. A 4-1 header would take up alot of space at the rear of the engine (assuming front engine, RWD). That would require several possible changes that are unfavorable:

1. The engine may have to sit higher in the engine bay. This would hurt the center of gravity of the car and hinder handling.

2. The tunnel for the tranny, exhaust would have to be bigger. This would remove interior space.

3. There are also production costs to look at.

That is just a few items. Your items work OK when the engine is on the stand, but how about in the car. GTFO. You are not smart enough for this thread.

[nreggie454]

I have never been all too impressed with any Lexus product, and even though the new IS might be pretty nice, the 335 is much better IMO. Lots of stock torque + a whole lot of aftermarket opportunity = a beast in the making.

[man]

I have never been all too impressed with any Lexus product, and even though the new IS might be pretty nice, the 335 is much better IMO. Lots of stock torque + a whole lot of aftermarket opportunity = a beast in the making.

Why is this even being brought up? Honestly, who is gonna buy either of these cars, spend 10s of thousands of dollars on them and take them out to the track? No one (at least no one with brains) Neither of these cars are marketed towards a real performance enthusiast.

[BobbyFresco]

Why is this even being brought up? Honestly, who is gonna buy either of these cars, spend 10s of thousands of dollars on them and take them out to the track? No one (at least no one with brains) Neither of these cars are marketed towards a real performance enthusiast.

This isn't entirely true......
If you look @ some Bmw forums, plenty of ppl are tracking these cars....

[d993s]

And you fail to look at the whole picture. A 4-1 header would take up alot of space at the rear of the engine (WTF??? )assuming front engine, RWD). That would require several possible changes that are unfavorable:

1. The engine may have to sit higher in the engine bay. (NO IT WOULDN'T.....only if it was designed by a retard named richw131)This would hurt the center of gravity of the car and hinder handling.

2. The tunnel for the tranny, exhaust would have to be bigger. (WHY? IT'S A MORE COMPACT DESIGN, IDIOT!) This would remove interior space.

3. There are also production costs to look at. (WELL YEAH, SINCE IT'S ALREADY MADE WITH 4 o2 SENSORS, A NEW DESIGN WOULD COST MORE, BUT THAT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM IF THEY WERE SIMPLIFIED TO BEGIN WITH!!!)

That is just a few items. Your items work OK when the engine is on the stand, but how about in the car. GTFO. You are not smart enough for this thread.

If you wouldn't spend so much time sucking gator dick, you might be able to comprehend the point I first made, and stop trying to come with unnecessary bullshit variables that will only favor your argument.

[man]

This isn't entirely true......
If you look @ some Bmw forums, plenty of ppl are tracking these cars....

Only because the M3 isn't out yet.

[Mike Lowrey]

If you wouldn't spend so much time sucking gator dick, you might be able to comprehend the point I first made, and stop trying to come with unnecessary bullshit variables that will only favor your argument.

If you would remove you head from your ass long enough to get the proper oxygen to your brain, you might actually comprehend how stupid this is. Are you to presume that "YOUR" idea is better than anything else when taking into account all design and cost variables?! Bitch please.

I find it funny that you think you know better. Go back to jerking off to porn and leave the real thinking to the adults.

[DinanM3atl]

Why is this even being brought up? Honestly, who is gonna buy either of these cars, spend 10s of thousands of dollars on them and take them out to the track? No one (at least no one with brains) Neither of these cars are marketed towards a real performance enthusiast.

I had to come back for this dumbass comment.

BMW owners MORON!!!!

Come out to a BMWCCA Drivers event.

328s
325s
M3s
M5s
530s
540s
318s

e30s
e28s
e12s
2002s

Everything. We drive our cars! Dude that I park next to last 2 events has an 06 328 and he has already been to 4 events. We drive our cars. Thus why we care about handling.


HAHAHHAHHAHA Not marked for a true performance enthusiasts...

hahahaha

[DinanM3atl]

Only because the M3 isn't out yet.

HAHAHAAH

Yah that is it!!!!


haahhaahahha

Or because they cant afford an M3 but they want the track experience so they drive their 335 or 330 ir 328 or 5 series even.

aahahahaahahahaha

[man]

Wow, Dinan, you really are as dumb as I thought.

Please learn how to read and comprehend things. I know you have problems with this but there is help available.

[DinanM3atl]

If you would remove you head from your ass long enough to get the proper oxygen to your brain, you might actually comprehend how stupid this is. Are you to presume that "YOUR" idea is better than anything else when taking into account all design and cost variables?! Bitch please.

I find it funny that you think you know better. Go back to jerking off to porn and leave the real thinking to the adults.

He is right. Nice try but he is right


Many auto makers are going to synthetic oils and extended service lengths. Is this for the better? No. Cars are recyclable now. If you truly wait 15,000 miles between oil changes you are doing damage to your engine. It DOES NOT last that long.

Most automakers have "lifetime" tranny fluid and diff fluid. "Lifetime" is the life of the car. Not your lifetime. If you drive your car and never change your auto tranny fluid it will break prematurely. Funny how a 1988 535i with automatic and 300,000 miles still works great.(BMW used to say change ever 30,000 miles) 2002 540i the automatic will fail between 100,000 and 120,000 miles. Only thing changed is the fluid is "lifetime" and the dealer wont even change it.

BMW uses plastic end caps on radiators. They have for 30 years. They break every 80,000 miles. They know they break. Why not make them out of aluminum? Then they won't break.

All the rubber bushings. You could use Urethane(70a) and it is only marginally stiffer(most people would never notice) and then never replace rubber bushings. Why don't they do this?

How come my 1989 325i all the interior plastic is perfect. Nothing chipped or broken or damaged. My Mom's 2001 e430 Sport Mercedes breaks interior pieces all the time.

You go to a dealer and a brand new lexus/bmw/nissan/benz all have cheaper and cheaper plastics yet the cars price inflates. Why? Because they are putting electonics in and extra bullshit. He is right. My e30 runs on 1 o2 sensor and got 34 mpg on the highway. 2.5L I-6. My m3 has FOUR of them and gets 26 if it is lucky. It has 2 cats, 2 resonators and a huge muffler. All new cars do this. It is more stuff to fail and means instead of one 100 dollar 02 I need 4 of them.

My old boss was an engineer for Mercedes Benz in Germany. Engines/trans etc they want to last. That in the mind of "most" customers is the biggest thing. Will it start and run. Past that they made parts to last a certain length of time and to a certain point. BMW and Benz used to make parts 2x where the value of X was the strength the part needed to be. Now BMW and Benz make it 1x. Thus more failures.

Sorry pal but this is just how it is. Even on a camry and accord. New ones have more stupid pointless failures then any of the old ones did. The cars that are simply cars "built to last" they put in more and more bullshit.

[DinanM3atl]

Wow, Dinan, you really are as dumb as I thought.

Please learn how to read and comprehend things. I know you have problems with this but there is help available.

Please explain before you call me dumb you fuck.

You said "Only a stupid person would track these cars after spending 10s of thousands of dollars on them"

So I replied with what I said about how BMW drivers DO TAKE THESE NEW CARS TO THE TRACK!

How is that dumb? Please tell me.

[man]

Please explain before you call me dumb you fuck.

You said "Only a stupid person would track these cars after spending 10s of thousands of dollars on them"

So I replied with what I said about how BMW drivers DO TAKE THESE NEW CARS TO THE TRACK!

How is that dumb? Please tell me.

I mean simply that most people would not buy a 335 and spend 10, 20, or 30k+ on it to track it if there was an M3 available. Especially since there are much better track cars for that amount of money.

[DinanM3atl]

I mean simply that most people would not buy a 335 and spend 10, 20, or 30k+ on it to track it if there was an M3 available. Especially since there are much better track cars for that amount of money.

way to back down. Good job. Talk all that shit and call me dumb and then post that.

Why do you need to spend 10,000 dollars? You can track it out of the box. BMWs make cars that handle out of the box. Even a fucking 328 handles awesome. Hell a 318 handles awesome too just no power. All you need is 375 dollars. A Helmet and pay for gas. That is it!.

Ready to track!

I can outdrive an e92 M3 with a bad driver. So do I need to spend 20,000 dollars on track parts? No. Means I am a poser and I will still be slower.

Faster Driver is better than a fast car. ANYDAY

[man]

way to back down. Good job. Talk all that shit and call me dumb and then post that.

Why do you need to spend 10,000 dollars? You can track it out of the box. BMWs make cars that handle out of the box. Even a fucking 328 handles awesome. Hell a 318 handles awesome too just no power.

I can outdrive an e92 M3 with a bad driver. So do I need to spend 20,000 dollars on track parts? No. Means I am a poser and I will still be slower.

Faster Driver is better than a fast car. ANYDAY

Back down? Is this a joke? You're the one making this an e-fight. You are the one with the superiority complex who called me a moron and a "fuck" (but of course I'm the shit talker because I called you dumb )

You're pathetic, man. I've read many of your posts and you have proven your immaturity time and time again. You try to make a fight out of everything, and it's always over BMW. I bet if you were with a girl and she said she didn't like your car you'd kick her to the curb wouldn't you? Hell she wouldn't even have to say it about your car, it could be any BMW.

[DinanM3atl]

Back down? Is this a joke? You're the one making this an e-fight. You are the one with the superiority complex who called me a moron and a "fuck" (but of course I'm the shit talker because I called you dumb )

You're pathetic, man. I've read many of your posts and you have proven your immaturity time and time again. You try to make a fight out of everything, and it's always over BMW. I bet if you were with a girl and she said she didn't like your car you'd kick her to the curb wouldn't you? Hell she wouldn't even have to say it about your car, it could be any BMW.

Yah. I beat my fiancee all the time. You know me so well!

Definitely pathetic! You have me pinned to a T!


I don't believe I name called till you called me dumb.

[OneSlow5pt0]

people buy BMWs not cause their fast or handle good,its because people want to be like rich people,and thats what they drive.....

[man]

Yah. I beat my fiancee all the time. You know me so well!

Definitely pathetic! You have me pinned to a T!


I don't believe I name called till you called me dumb.

Then let's go back, as it seems your memory escapes you.

"I had to come back for this dumbass comment.

BMW owners MORON!!!!"

[man]

people buy BMWs not cause their fast or handle good,its because people want to be like rich people,and thats what they drive.....

haha

[HatchHero]

japs got the shit on lock!!!

[BlkCD5]

anybody care to let me test drive their Bmw?

[ash7]

BTW, what's going to happen when the IS-F comes out next year with over 400 NA HP???? Is BMW going to go QUAD turbo on us to keep up?????

What's going to happen is there is going to be another poll, and everyone will talk about how awesome toyota is [for the exact same reasons you've outlined here].

NA FTMFW any day of the week

-jonathan

[xlilvi3tx]

lexus over bmw allday anyday everyday

[Mike Lowrey]

He is right. Nice try but he is right

Actually, I do not agree. I have an alternate theory. One that does not include the conspirasy of making recyclable cars.

Many auto makers are going to synthetic oils and extended service lengths. Is this for the better? No. Cars are recyclable now. If you truly wait 15,000 miles between oil changes you are doing damage to your engine. It DOES NOT last that long.

Actually synthetic oil WILL last that long, but regular oil will not. As the lubrication in the engine improves you should be able to go longer intervals before changing the oil. This is provided that the addatives also last long enough, and the filtering of the oil is efficient enough.

Most automakers have "lifetime" tranny fluid and diff fluid. "Lifetime" is the life of the car. Not your lifetime. If you drive your car and never change your auto tranny fluid it will break prematurely. Funny how a 1988 535i with automatic and 300,000 miles still works great.(BMW used to say change ever 30,000 miles) 2002 540i the automatic will fail between 100,000 and 120,000 miles. Only thing changed is the fluid is "lifetime" and the dealer wont even change it.

BMW uses plastic end caps on radiators. They have for 30 years. They break every 80,000 miles. They know they break. Why not make them out of aluminum? Then they won't break.

All the rubber bushings. You could use Urethane(70a) and it is only marginally stiffer(most people would never notice) and then never replace rubber bushings. Why don't they do this?

How come my 1989 325i all the interior plastic is perfect. Nothing chipped or broken or damaged. My Mom's 2001 e430 Sport Mercedes breaks interior pieces all the time.

You go to a dealer and a brand new lexus/bmw/nissan/benz all have cheaper and cheaper plastics yet the cars price inflates. Why? Because they are putting electonics in and extra bullshit. He is right. My e30 runs on 1 o2 sensor and got 34 mpg on the highway. 2.5L I-6. My m3 has FOUR of them and gets 26 if it is lucky. It has 2 cats, 2 resonators and a huge muffler. All new cars do this. It is more stuff to fail and means instead of one 100 dollar 02 I need 4 of them.

My old boss was an engineer for Mercedes Benz in Germany. Engines/trans etc they want to last. That in the mind of "most" customers is the biggest thing. Will it start and run. Past that they made parts to last a certain length of time and to a certain point. BMW and Benz used to make parts 2x where the value of X was the strength the part needed to be. Now BMW and Benz make it 1x. Thus more failures.

Sorry pal but this is just how it is. Even on a camry and accord. New ones have more stupid pointless failures then any of the old ones did. The cars that are simply cars "built to last" they put in more and more bullshit.

So it is all a conspirasy then? Nice try.

Years ago the manufacturing process was not able to achieve the tight tolerances that they are able to meet today. What does that mean? You don't have to figure in a extremely large factor of safety in when designing the components, just to overcome the manufacturing defficiencies. You are able to use a smaller factor of safety, which saves both money and weight.

You say there are more and more plastics?! Yes, they are light-weight and cheap. Years ago they were not able to manufacture the complex shapes required for certaint parts on the car, and they were also not able to hold the tight tolerances needed. Due to advancements in these areas, plastics are able to be more widely used. Why? Because they are light and cheap. You want good gass milage while having a powerful car? You then need to have that car be a light as possible.

Oh, and your arguement on the O2 sensors? Talk to the government, not the auto makers. As the requirements for cleaner and cleaner emmissions increases, you will have things like this. You used to be able to get away with 1 O2 sensor, and 1 CAT. Now you need to have a CAT as close to the exhaust manifold as possible to heat up quickly, for clean emmissions upon startup and then you need one down-stream for further emmissions requirements. You also need an O2 sensor to make sure the CAT is functioning.

It is much simpler than the consiracy theory that you propose.

[DinanM3atl]

people buy BMWs not cause their fast or handle good,its because people want to be like rich people,and thats what they drive.....

Um what?

Yah thats why BMWCCA Peachtree Chapter holds 3 HPDE's a year. There are atleast 100 other chapters and they do the same. They run Auto-X and Time Trials and BMWCCA Club Racing.

Where is your data and research to prove this?

Maybe it is because people with money to spend want something nice? That could also be another reason. Just an idea.

What's going to happen is there is going to be another poll, and everyone will talk about how awesome toyota is [for the exact same reasons you've outlined here].

NA FTMFW any day of the week

-jonathan

Funny the Poll is BMW 31 and Lexus 28. Seems as though plenty of people voted BMW but then they will be made fun of and ridiculed by everyone on here

Actually, I do not agree. I have an alternate theory. One that does not include the conspirasy of making recyclable cars.

This will be great I am sure. Where did I say it was a conspiracy? Can't seem to find that. I think you don't understand that a car dealer and a car maker are in the business to MAKE MONEY! Service makes a large large large portion of the dealers profits. If you don't understand this I cannot help you.

Actually synthetic oil WILL last that long, but regular oil will not. As the lubrication in the engine improves you should be able to go longer intervals before changing the oil. This is provided that the addatives also last long enough, and the filtering of the oil is efficient enough.

Hmmm. They use the same paper filters and spin on filters they have been using for 40 years. But damn the oil will last 15,000 miles. I can't tell you how many cars that are running on factory 15K Oil intervals and I have had to take PIECES of oil filter out of the housing or the spin on filter is just filled with a paper smoothie.

The oil will start to break down. It is a TON of heat cycles and a lot of stop and go and hi-rev driving over 15,000 miles. I have seen a motor at 65,000 miles that went on factory 15,000 mile changes and it had so much sludge it had to be replaced. Dealer covered it obviously as it was still under warranty.

This is beyond the fact that Synthetic oil was originally designed for Jet engines for the military and then commercial air industry whichs uses a different type of lubrication system. It was and still is not technically designed for the internal combustion engine. It works, works decently well but some areas of the lubrication process, regular oil(which is what I run EXCEPT at the race track) is far superior. Do some research. Synthetic oil is not all it is cracked up to be. Kind of like Bose. Great marketing for a decent product so it becomes "AMAZING!!!!"

Years ago the manufacturing process was not able to achieve the tight tolerances that they are able to meet today. What does that mean? You don't have to figure in a extremely large factor of safety in when designing the components, just to overcome the manufacturing defficiencies. You are able to use a smaller factor of safety, which saves both money and weight.

So that means everything breaks? I don't understand. So shitty old manufacturering made a control arm bushing last for 200,000 miles on an 89 BMW but the new and improved only last 80,000 miles? That is ENGINEERED into the part.

You say there are more and more plastics?! Yes, they are light-weight and cheap. Years ago they were not able to manufacture the complex shapes required for certaint parts on the car, and they were also not able to hold the tight tolerances needed. Due to advancements in these areas, plastics are able to be more widely used. Why? Because they are light and cheap. You want good gass milage while having a powerful car? You then need to have that car be a light as possible.

Again. The old plastic parts in my older car. Hell even my old jeep didn't break but the new plastics break. They just make them thinner to "save weight" but in reality it is to save 1/2 cent per piece. They don't care if it breaks because those pieces aren't covered under warranty if YOU break them. So you buy another one.

You still fail to realize why a company exist. TO MAKE MONEY!!!

Oh, and your arguement on the O2 sensors? Talk to the government, not the auto makers. As the requirements for cleaner and cleaner emmissions increases, you will have things like this. You used to be able to get away with 1 O2 sensor, and 1 CAT. Now you need to have a CAT as close to the exhaust manifold as possible to heat up quickly, for clean emmissions upon startup and then you need one down-stream for further emmissions requirements. You also need an O2 sensor to make sure the CAT is functioning.

Ok. So that is 1 before and 1 after the cat in the header. So why do we need 4?

[DinanM3atl]

What's going to happen is there is going to be another poll, and everyone will talk about how awesome toyota is [for the exact same reasons you've outlined here].

NA FTMFW any day of the week

-jonathan

They will compare it to the e92/e90 M3... which has 400hp also!??!? OMG and it is NA...

The M3 will win it and then everyone will say "Well for the money I save on the IS-F I can make it faster". BMW only need 4L to make 412hp. Toyota needed 5

Plus it is ugly as fuck. Look at the exhaust? What fucking drunk fuck came up with this?





Plus F = Fast?

Wow! Is the Apple marketing team working with lexus? I really want it now!

[OneSlow5pt0]

i like the exhaust.........but u sound as bad as the PS3 fanboys

[d993s]

Don't argue with gator fans; their inbreeding causes lack of comprehension, and therefore render them ignorant to most facts. (uh, I mean the conspirasy )

[DinanM3atl]

i like the exhaust.........but u sound as bad as the PS3 fanboys

Because that car is ugly as fuck I sound like a PS3 fanboy. Makes no sense.

[GDuty5_Chic]

had to vote bmw