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  • BMW 335i

    34 53.13%
  • Lexus IS350

    30 46.88%
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Thread: German Muscle vs. Japanese Hustle (335i vs IS350)

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  1. #1
    Banned nbennettksu's Avatar
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    Default German Muscle vs. Japanese Hustle (335i vs IS350)

    enjoy

    BMW has it and Lexus wants it. That's all you need to know about the confrontation between the 2007 BMW 335i and 2007 Lexus IS 350.

    As the first compact sport sedan with more than 300 horsepower, the IS 350 has been the quickest car in this class since its redesign in 2006. But the 2007 BMW 335i has been through a redesign of its own, and its new twin-turbo 300-hp inline-6 now measures up against the Lexus V6.

    Putting together the 2007 BMW 335i and the 2007 Lexus IS 350 will tell us which car gets it done in the speed sweepstakes. More important, these two cars are redefining a category that the BMW 3 Series has dominated for 20 years, and we'll find out which car will lead us into the future.

    Choosing the Hardware
    When we matched these cars against each other in 2006, the newly redesigned 306-hp Lexus IS 350 ran away from the 255-hp BMW 330i with a quicker acceleration to 60 mph by more than a full second. On the other hand, that BMW outmaneuvered the Lexus in every objective and subjective handling category.

    For 2007, the deal has changed. The 2007 BMW 335i packs an even 300 hp (perhaps even more), and it also takes the 3 Series further in the direction of sophistication, making it a competitor for the IS 350 in refinement as well as speed. Meanwhile, the 2007 Lexus IS 350 allows you to switch off its vehicle stability control, so you can explore the limits of its dynamic envelope.

    For this like-to-like comparison, we've chosen a BMW 335i with the optional $1,275 three-mode six-speed automatic, plus the optional $100 shift paddles on the steering wheel. This car matches up with the Lexus IS 350 and its standard six-speed automatic with shift paddles.

    The New Order
    "There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order to things." — Niccolò Machiavelli

    While the BMW inline-6 has always been known for its smooth and linear power delivery, it has rarely been celebrated for its horsepower. But now that BMW has adopted direct injection and sequential turbocharging, the all-new twin-turbo N54 engine feels like something from BMW's M division. A plateau of 300 pound-feet of torque begins at 1,400 rpm and extends all the way to 7,000 rpm.

    And what a difference a year, 45 horsepower and 80 lb-ft of torque make. Not only does the 300-hp 335i slash nearly 2 seconds from the 0-to-60-mph time recorded by the 2006 330i, it also outaccelerates the Lexus IS 350 in the process. The 2007 335i sprints to 60 mph in just 4.9 seconds and blitzes the quarter-mile in 13.4 seconds at 103.9 mph — and all this with an automatic transmission.

    The Quick and the Stead
    With the 2007 Lexus IS 350's traction control shut down, we managed to find nearly a half-second improvement in its acceleration profile on the drag strip right up to the 1,320-foot mark, where it recorded a time slip nearly identical to last year's. The launch to 30 mph is 0.4 second quicker, as is the time to 60 mph. The quarter-mile comes up in 13.8 seconds at 101.2 mph.

    The IS 350's DOHC 3.5-liter V6 also represents new engine technology for Lexus. It's a model of high-revving, almost electric smoothness, yet this V6 must reach 4,800 rpm before all of its 277 lb-ft of torque is accounted for. By then the award-winning turbocharged BMW six is already riding a huge wave of neck-straining twist, and the 335i shows the IS 350 its trunk badge. Where the Lexus zings through the gears to make haste, the BMW doesn't have to shift to go fast.

    Grab a Gear
    "The most dangerous phrase in the language is, 'We've always done it this way.'" — Rear Admiral Grace M. Hopper, U.S. Navy

    The shift paddles mounted on the steering wheel of the Lexus IS 350 are simple to operate, as you pull on the right one for an upshift and then tug on the left one for a downshift. The paddles select gears more or less quickly, but fail to match engine revs during downshifts, which slows the process by a fraction.

    BMW has engineered its shift-paddle system to afford both up- and downshifts with either paddle, as you pull with your fingers to produce a very, very quick upshift and then push with your thumb to get a speedy downshift with matching engine revs.

    The ergonomics of shift-paddle arrangement are better in the Lexus, but the logic of the BMW system is more convenient. Meanwhile, we prefer BMW's approach to the shift pattern of the console lever in manual mode, as you pull back to upshift and push forward to downshift, as if you were using 3rd and 4th gears in a manual transmission. Many Japanese cars seem to prefer the pattern of 2nd and 3rd gears in a manual transmission, where you push forward to upshift and pull back for a downshift.

    Tailhooks for Brakes
    Both cars stop from 60 mph like a naval jetfighter snagging the three-wire during a carrier landing, and you can feel the strain on your clavicle from the seatbelt as the Lexus comes to a halt in 114 feet and the BMW stops in 116 feet.

    We encountered a dilemma when it came to ranking the brakes on these cars. Where the 335i provided superior feel and controllability at speed, its pedal also presented an odd tendency to feel sticky at low speed, as if it were controlled by some digital logic. Stop-and-go traffic proved to be a lurching, jerky affair.

    On the other hand, the Lexus brakes offered adept control in the slow stuff, delivering textbook limo-style stops, but the light-effort pedal action seemed isolated from the system and didn't match the BMW's ability to provide two-way communication during assertive driving.

    The Indulgent Electronic Nanny
    "It's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission." — Rear Admiral Grace M. Hopper, U.S. Navy

    Lexus has gone to some trouble to make its latest-generation vehicle stability system one of the most sophisticated available, so maybe it's no surprise that when it was introduced, the system didn't include a switch to turn it off. But thanks to a decision made at the highest level at Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A. (so we understand), the 2007 VSC recognizes that there are some circumstances when it might be disabled.

    When the VSC system is engaged, the algorithmic threshold of electronic stability intervention is within an eyelash of the car's actual limits. Driven smoothly right up to the VSC's boundaries, the Lexus IS 350 delivers virtually the same level of grip as the car will afford without it. Overdrive the car, however, and you're asking for a slap on the hand — a beep and a yaw correction.

    What we did find with the VSC disabled was that there's a measure of athleticism in the IS 350 we had never experienced before. Even if the electric-assisted steering feels rather numb, like winding a constant-rate spring, it's delightful to rotate the car around each cone in our test slalom with such a high degree of precision that we can place the front tire within inches while gently sliding the rear tires.

    We admire this sort of vehicle behavior in a sport sedan, but we have to tell you that it doesn't actually generate any performance improvement that you can measure.

    Hitting an Invisible Target
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." — Arthur Schopenhauer

    So along comes the fifth-generation 3 Series, and not surprisingly, it's better. It makes better numbers at the test track, and every driver appreciates its conversational steering, high levels of cornering grip and the peerless way it envelops road irregularities and smothers them. It's remarkable that in this age of super-computer design and virtual testing, BMW continues to hit the ride-handling target that no one else can even see.

    The Lexus earns our respect for a competitive level of handling accomplishment, although we were surprised that its characteristic placid ride sometimes broke down when the front tires suddenly transmitted a jolt of harshness while confronting sharp surface irregularities.

    There's also an important difference in the specification of these two cars, as the 335i was equipped with a $1,700 Sport package, including a retuned suspension with low-profile, high-performance tires on 18-inch wheels. We're guessing that if the IS 350 also were fitted with its $3,695 Sport package, all of its capabilities and liabilities would be similarly increased.

    The Value of Greatness
    "What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." — Oscar Wilde

    This is usually the part of a comparison of sport sedans where we apologetically explain that the BMW costs more, and that you get what you pay for. This time, the as-tested price of our well-equipped 2007 BMW 335i is $1,325 less than that of the luxuriously optioned 2007 Lexus IS 350. On the other hand, the base prices of these cars go the other way, with the Lexus undercutting the BMW by $3,255.

    In an attempt to balance content with price, we weighted both the price and selected features equally at 25 percent of our comparison's total test score. We chose only those features we felt contribute to the sporting character of the car itself, like electronic stability control, sport suspension/tire package, transmission specification, bi-xenon headlamps and a smart-key entry/starting system. Scored in this fashion, the BMW comes out ahead. Had this been a luxury sedan gizmo-fest, it may have gone the other way.

    Second Place
    "We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the 15 which we do possess." — Mark Twain

    The 2007 Lexus IS 350 is a fantastically rewarding sport sedan on many levels. It's a high-spirited luxury car in a low-impact sort of way. The IS 350 is a driver's car, just not the kind of sport sedan that goads you beyond your talent and into the guardrail. The Lexus demonstrates refinement in every molecule in way that a BMW never will. The IS 350 is defined by an easy, breezy nonchalance that can make you forget about communicative steering, slalom speeds and even more power.

    First Place
    "Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it." — Henry David Thoreau

    Once you get a sport sedan right, it shows a depth of engineering and design skill. Get it really right, and it will win widely publicized awards and bring enthusiasts to the showroom. The 2007 BMW 335i does both, and it's without a doubt the best-performing and yet most well-rounded 3 Series ever. The BMW 335i is still the best sport sedan money can buy, and you can quote us on that.

    The manufacturers provided Edmunds these vehicles for the purposes of evaluation.

  2. #2
    Locost Enthusiast Andy_013's Avatar
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    I'll take a Lexus over a BMW any day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99ExDriver
    I'll take a Lexus over a BMW any day.
    Really?

  4. #4
    Locost Enthusiast Andy_013's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIXXERDK
    Really?
    yes
    I love JDM VIP sedan from lexus and toyota.

  5. #5
    Banned lsxtreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99ExDriver
    I'll take a Lexus over a BMW any day.

    +1

  6. #6
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    IS350 is waaaaaaay sexier

  7. #7
    Banned nbennettksu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDMjoe86
    IS350 is waaaaaaay sexier
    haha nooo way.

  8. #8
    Senior Member BlkCD5's Avatar
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    The battle continues. The 335i's torque curve snaps necks.

  9. #9
    STILL HERE!! tron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbennettksu
    haha nooo way.
    werd!!
    “Alfalfa peak”—an odd ridge on a car that is otherwise a lava-lamp jubilee of rounded Oprah-ness.

    -car and driver, 370z review

  10. #10
    Senior Member | IA Veteran  OneSlow5pt0's Avatar
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    BMW

  11. #11
    Banned nbennettksu's Avatar
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    335 really is the "King"

  12. #12
    Getting there admedlin's Avatar
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    I'd take the BMW. there's more possibility with the twin turbo setup than with the n/a IS.

    I would drive either one, but if I had the extra money laying around, I would get the BMW

  13. #13
    Im a Con Meo The Youngn's Avatar
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    i thought the phrase was "German Engineering"....but on topic, BMW

  14. #14
    RIP Leisa! The Yousef's Avatar
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    335i for me...


    TWIN TURBOED CHARGED!


    http://www.vishnutuning.com/bmw_1_v380.htm

    ^read that and weep
    Val RIP
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    1: NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, DATE A GIRL OFF IA, OR TELL A GIRLFRIEND ABOUT IA.

  15. #15
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    BMW>Toyota, and thats stock. as for the IS keeping up if they're modded, haha more likely to find an ice cream truck in hell.


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    raggedy volvo owner
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    a famous man once said "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races". Looks like it applies here too.

    available torque ftw by the bmw.
    My car is factory....



    Every single performance part and or modification it has was made in a factory somewhere.

  17. #17
    Senior Member BlkCD5's Avatar
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    There should be a poll. Honestly, who on here cares about the ownership costs of these two vehicles as a purchasing factor?

  18. #18
    Proud to be Retrosexual Jaimecbr900's Avatar
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    Hmmm, so it took twin turbos to reach the performance level of an NA and that is some kind of "accomplishment"???? What's going to happen when Lexus comes out with their own "turbo" version of the IS?????

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    Delightfully Creepy Ran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
    Hmmm, so it took twin turbos to reach the performance level of an NA and that is some kind of "accomplishment"???? What's going to happen when Lexus comes out with their own "turbo" version of the IS?????
    They will complain about power delivery, harshness, or it just being too powerful for it's class. If you truly want a luxury car with reliability and excellent service, you'll get a Lexus.

    I've seen repair costs from Volvo, Audi and similar upper-class companies for their turbo vehicles. The maintenance on a turbo BMW is going to kill some people.

  20. #20
    Proud to be Retrosexual Jaimecbr900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran
    They will complain about power delivery, harshness, or it just being too powerful for it's class. If you truly want a luxury car with reliability and excellent service, you'll get a Lexus.
    Preaching to the choir brother, preaching to the choir.....

    I've seen repair costs from Volvo, Audi and similar upper-class companies for their turbo vehicles. The maintenance on a turbo BMW is going to kill some people.
    Well, and that was kinda my point. Lexus has no factory turbo cars, probably one of reasons they are ranked so high in reliability every year. They like to build ultra reliable NA cars, and BMW was actually a lot like that up until now. I suspect that although BMW had larger displacement (up until the IS350 came out) and won every comparo (although I think some are very biased anyway) they got complacent. When Lexus took their crown, they pulled out all the stops and the 335i came about.

    My question is this though:

    Although I am biased, why would the automotive world be all giddy about a car that REQUIRES not 1 but 2 turbos to keep up???? Anyone can do that, right? Can they build an NA motor and put it in the 3 series to compete head-to-head though? That's just on the performance side, also remember interior, reliability, costs (both initial and maintainance), resale value, etc. should also be taken into consideration to truly crown a mid-size sport sedan like this. Question is, has the new 335i been upgraded enough to be so good all around to be on top of the heap???

    BTW, what's going to happen when the IS-F comes out next year with over 400 NA HP???? Is BMW going to go QUAD turbo on us to keep up?????

  21. #21
    Banned nbennettksu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran
    They will complain about power delivery, harshness, or it just being too powerful for it's class. If you truly want a luxury car with reliability and excellent service, you'll get a Lexus.

    I've seen repair costs from Volvo, Audi and similar upper-class companies for their turbo vehicles. The maintenance on a turbo BMW is going to kill some people.
    Maintenance on a turbo BMW is freefor 5years/50,000 miles


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
    not 1 but 2 turbos to keep up
    uhh...they put 2 on there to eliminate any turbo lag

  22. #22
    Banned nbennettksu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
    Hmmm, so it took twin turbos to reach the performance level of an NA and that is some kind of "accomplishment"???? What's going to happen when Lexus comes out with their own "turbo" version of the IS?????
    then bmw will will put bigger turbos on there. They have kept the 335 engine somewhat restricted, for when things such as the turbo IS (which will probably never happen) come along.

    Same concept that Honda/Acura did with the J seriese engine.

  23. #23
    Proud to be Retrosexual Jaimecbr900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbennettksu
    then bmw will will put bigger turbos on there. They have kept the 335 engine somewhat restricted, for when things such as the turbo IS (which will probably never happen) come along.

    Same concept that Honda/Acura did with the J seriese engine.
    They won't put bigger turbos because of the engineering involved in having to do that.

    Besides, the Lexus IS-F is going to be N/A and over 400 HP. Simply adding a bigger turbo(s) is not going to get them there.

    Quote Originally Posted by nbennettksu
    Maintenance on a turbo BMW is freefor 5years/50,000 miles


    What happens AFTER 50K? Trade it in? Sell it? Get a second mortgage on your house??? It's a sales gimmick. Truly reliable cars don't depend on warranties to sell cars.


    Quote Originally Posted by nbennettksu
    uhh...they put 2 on there to eliminate any turbo lag
    Really??? I didn't know that.....

    Turbo lag or ceramic ball bearing turbos .....didn't they NEED it to keep up???? THAT was my point. Look at the results the previous year and compare to now. What's the big difference???? TWIN TURBOS.....get it?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
    Hmmm, so it took twin turbos to reach the performance level of an NA and that is some kind of "accomplishment"???? What's going to happen when Lexus comes out with their own "turbo" version of the IS?????

    That's exactly what I was thinking


    BMW'll change to twin t88's lol
    Add My IG: @The_House_Of_Honda / @Paddleshift.Photo [/b]

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    Proud to be Retrosexual Jaimecbr900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SE-Rial Killer
    That's exactly what I was thinking


    BMW'll change to twin t88's lol
    It looks like atleast one person got it.

    Too bad it falls on deaf ears when it comes to BMW diehards.

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    Banned nbennettksu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlkCD5
    There should be a poll. Honestly, who on here cares about the ownership costs of these two vehicles as a purchasing factor?
    of you can afford one, you can afford the other...

  27. #27
    Delightfully Creepy Ran's Avatar
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    Lexus > Ultifail Driving Machine

    The Lexus demonstrates refinement in every molecule in way that a BMW never will.

  28. #28
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    IS350 twin that and walk away from the euro trash

    BMW = big money wasted

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE jdm
    IS350 twin that and walk away from the euro trash

    BMW = big money wasted
    ooh ok.

  30. #30
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    BMW out of the box i would buy

    turbo = more power for cheap!!!


    GIAC FTMFW!!!

  31. #31
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    booooo! paul is a sell out booooo!


    i wuv u

  32. #32
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    Both are great cars, but lets go back in time a lil..
    Toyota had a 3.0 TT making 320 hp, uhhh, since 1993 in the Aristo TT in Japan and the Supra TT here and in Japan. BMW making 300 hp from a TT I-6 is fantastic but Toyota did it over a decade ago.

    Did yall know the BMW uses Mitsubishi turbos? Now it is a much easier engine to mod, people are chipping it getting 350-375hp with no problems.

    The 3.5 V-6 in the IS 350 is NA, it makes 306hp and has been tested 0-60 in 4.9 seconds in R&T. The car is very quick.

    THe BMW does handle better stock, the IS 350 still has some work in that area but its not that far off.

    I prefer the IS 350s looks to the 335 coupe, I cannot believe it looks bland to me. I really like how the 3 series sedan looks though.

    Also the BMW engines have been overheating left and right, they did not put an oil cooler in initial models, they are now. The Lexus, well its a Lexus it won't break down. The BMW does have free just about everything maintenance the first 50k miles.
    Vossen CV3 20x9 & 20x10.5

  33. #33
    Senior Member BlkCD5's Avatar
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    how well will their sequential system hold up. Some people just convert over to single turbo applications i.e (Supra, Rx-7).

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
    Both are great cars, but lets go back in time a lil..
    Toyota had a 3.0 TT making 320 hp, uhhh, since 1993 in the Aristo TT in Japan and the Supra TT here and in Japan. BMW making 300 hp from a TT I-6 is fantastic but Toyota did it over a decade ago.
    Yes let's go back even farther into the 1970's when BMW came out with a fantastic little car called the 2002. I'm just saying that BMW did it's factory turbo fun before Toyota did, to my knowledge. Not counting racing engines or any twin turbo setups, just a single turbo, but wtf do I know I'm a noob. Anyways BMW ftw.

  35. #35
    Senior Member jfman's Avatar
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    BMW>Toyota

    After all it's what it is... a toyota.

  36. #36
    "She massages Shit" Mike Lowrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfman
    BMW>Toyota

    After all it's what it is... a toyota.
    And, that is why you are a moron.
    Rich...Bob...Stan...?????

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    "She massages Shit" Mike Lowrey's Avatar
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    Just another tidbit on why BMW put twin turbos in the 335. They found themselves beat out by Lexus in power and speed and needed to add more power. The existing chassis could not accomadate a larger displacement motor in inline form. Their only choice to make a quick imporvement was to add the turbos. It was either that or redesign the chassis.

    I would take the Lexus over the BMW any day and twice on Sunday.....

    Actually, I did. I have owned the IS350, and would own another one without thinking twice.

    The real comparo will come with the New BMW M# and the Lexus IS-F. These two cars are made for a similar purpose. Lets see just how close Lexus has come to the BMW.
    Rich...Bob...Stan...?????

  38. #38
    Senior Member jfman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richw131
    Their only choice to make a quick imporvement was to add the turbos. It was either that or redesign the chassis.

    I .
    No YOU are a moron. The E92 chassis accepts v8 and even v10 engines. What a fucking moron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfman
    No YOU are a moron. The E92 chassis accepts v8 and even v10 engines. What a fucking moron.

    True story..The current issue of Eurotuner has a NA 550 HP V10 BMW 325i.
    So much for the theory that BMW can't do magic with NA, right?
    Overpriced Toyota FTL.

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    "She massages Shit" Mike Lowrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfman
    No YOU are a moron. The E92 chassis accepts v8 and even v10 engines. What a fucking moron.
    Hey dumbass, BMW was already planning to put a V8 in the M3 and were not going to put the same in the 335. The problem was they could not get the power they needed out of the current motor without FI. Hencethe TT. Let us at least look at the whole picture.
    Rich...Bob...Stan...?????

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