Christians come on in

[RL...]

No, that makes perfect sense. And I'm definitely on the same page as you with music (and cars, nature, and friends) for that matter. But it's in those things and through those things that I worship God. I think I made this point earlier, but I can't imagine that any of those things (or at least appreciation of them) would exist without intentionally being created.

Art (be it music, photography, or car modification) is to me, one of the greatest indications of a higher power. It has no use in the natural "animal" world, and thus, has had no reason to evolve and become an integral part of humanity's existence.

People listen to music for things like entertainment and relaxing which, I mean come on what animals don't like to relax? People take pictures because for entertainment and for jobs to earn money to buy food and to keep ourselves sheltered which is natural instinct. People mod cars because we are reckless animals that like doing stupid shit and getting adrenaline rushes and also because a nice car is a status symbol which can help us get girls to reproduce with, all very basic instincts. See, all natural stuff here. =D

[quickdodge®]

but I can't imagine that any of those things (or at least appreciation of them) would exist without intentionally being created.

But you can imagine an unseen spirit just saying "let it be" and it is?

I'm not attacking you as I see both sides of the debate. Hard to imagine an explosion creating this, but it's also hard to think that something/someone that can never be proven to exist just said "let it be."

To me, it's completely fascinating. Later, QD.

[Nerdsrock22]

But you can imagine an unseen spirit just saying "let it be" and it is?

I'm not attacking you as I see both sides of the debate. Hard to imagine an explosion creating this, but it's also hard to think that something/someone that can never be proven to exist just said "let it be."

To me, it's completely fascinating. Later, QD.

Great point. I won't pretend to say that I came to my beliefs through a scientific and reasoned march through logistic deduction. But frankly, I don't think I have to. When I examine what I see in the world, and how it interacts with itself, and what makes people truly happy, Christianity makes the most sense to me. Self-sacrifice, humility, peace, respect, kindness, justice and forgiveness are what I need, and in my belief, what the world needs. If at the end of it, it's all a sham, I can stand tall (or lay dead) knowing that I lived a good life that wasn't in vain.

But don't peg me as some kind of anti-science fundamentalist. I see God and science as perfect partners, and scientific discovery can find itself threaded with theology, and vice versa. Quantum mechanics, evolutionary theory, relative theory are all perfect compliments to Christianity in my opinion. If science discovers something radical and seemingly contradictory with my idea of God, that doesn't mean God is somehow discounted or "proved" wrong, only that our idea of God, what we "created" him as was incorrect.

[bu villain]

Great point. I won't pretend to say that I came to my beliefs through a scientific and reasoned march through logistic deduction. But frankly, I don't think I have to. When I examine what I see in the world, and how it interacts with itself, and what makes people truly happy, Christianity makes the most sense to me. Self-sacrifice, humility, peace, respect, kindness, justice and forgiveness are what I need, and in my belief, what the world needs. If at the end of it, it's all a sham, I can stand tall (or lay dead) knowing that I lived a good life that wasn't in vain.

But don't peg me as some kind of anti-science fundamentalist. I see God and science as perfect partners, and scientific discovery can find itself threaded with theology, and vice versa. Quantum mechanics, evolutionary theory, relative theory are all perfect compliments to Christianity in my opinion. If science discovers something radical and seemingly contradictory with my idea of God, that doesn't mean God is somehow discounted or "proved" wrong, only that our idea of God, what we "created" him as was incorrect.

If all Christians shared these sentiments (and many do), the world would be a better place and Christianity would not be bashed the way it often is now. Of course, this is all in my opinion.

[Nerdsrock22]

If all Christians shared these sentiments (and many do), the world would be a better place and Christianity would not be bashed the way it often is now. Of course, this is all in my opinion.

It's the greatest tragedy that the Christian church has been used by evil men for evil motives throughout history.

[quickdodge®]

But don't peg me as some kind of anti-science fundamentalist.

Just as I'm not anti-God by any means. I drive about 450-500 miles 5 days a week. As much as I can, I love to drive them on back roads; country roads. I love the scenery and picturing it as I think it would be if there were no civilization there. Either way we got here has to be an amazing, fascinating story/event. I always think that if there truly is a God that did all this, that He did make one mistake....and it's a doozy of one, too.

He put humans here. Later, QD.

[ahabion]

Great point. I won't pretend to say that I came to my beliefs through a scientific and reasoned march through logistic deduction. But frankly, I don't think I have to. When I examine what I see in the world, and how it interacts with itself, and what makes people truly happy, Christianity makes the most sense to me. Self-sacrifice, humility, peace, respect, kindness, justice and forgiveness are what I need, and in my belief, what the world needs. If at the end of it, it's all a sham, I can stand tall (or lay dead) knowing that I lived a good life that wasn't in vain.

But don't peg me as some kind of anti-science fundamentalist. I see God and science as perfect partners, and scientific discovery can find itself threaded with theology, and vice versa. Quantum mechanics, evolutionary theory, relative theory are all perfect compliments to Christianity in my opinion. If science discovers something radical and seemingly contradictory with my idea of God, that doesn't mean God is somehow discounted or "proved" wrong, only that our idea of God, what we "created" him as was incorrect.

I'm sure it was just lack of better terms but I wouldn't put 'partnered'... I would more venture to say that the evidence found in scientific findings could speculate that it could lead back to God. To say the otherwise would mean, to me, that God is no higher than what we as men can justify; that certainly is not my God.

[Nerdsrock22]

I'm sure it was just lack of better terms but I wouldn't put 'partnered'... I would more venture to say that the evidence found in scientific findings could speculate that it could lead back to God. To say the otherwise would mean, to me, that God is no higher than what we as men can justify; that certainly is not my God.

That was not my intent. I believe that was holds true for God must hold true in nature, that they are part of the same truth.