Christians come on in

[Nerdsrock22]

If I believed that why would I spend one nanosecond of any of the insignificant time that my tiny speck of existence allows on arguing anything on the internet. I would spend my time wisely by raping and pillaging anything and everything I could, because... What's the point of going to some mundane job everyday and obeying some "laws" another human being tried to place on me as a form of "control"? All there is to this world is what I can see and touch.

This. I seriously don't understand why atheists bother fitting into society. If there is no Greater morality, then why even bother?

[msanch24]

This. I seriously don't understand why atheists bother fitting into society. If there is no Greater morality, then why even bother?

Makes for some troublesome thoughts for sure.

But let me try to offer my POV anyway.

I look for the little things, you know? Those tiny little things in life that generate such a large emotional response. I've talked about music before. My guitars are my best friends. I had any instance one time where music literally saved my life. Since then, I try my damnedest to pay my respects by making the best music i possibly can. You could almost call it my religion.

But that's quite a big thing isn't it? In those big things, are all the little things that make life worth living to the best of your ability. It is only by fitting into society that I can perpetuate my participation in these things. If I went around raping and pillaging, well, sooner or later I'd be caught and thrown in jail or sentenced to death. That would be the end of my music, the end of everything that makes me love life (cars, nature, friends).

I'm finding it hard to put the right words down, but I hope i offer some decent points.

[Nerdsrock22]

Makes for some troublesome thoughts for sure.

But let me try to offer my POV anyway.

I look for the little things, you know? Those tiny little things in life that generate such a large emotional response. I've talked about music before. My guitars are my best friends. I had any instance one time where music literally saved my life. Since then, I try my damnedest to pay my respects by making the best music i possibly can. You could almost call it my religion.

But that's quite a big thing isn't it? In those big things, are all the little things that make life worth living to the best of your ability. It is only by fitting into society that I can perpetuate my participation in these things. If I went around raping and pillaging, well, sooner or later I'd be caught and thrown in jail or sentenced to death. That would be the end of my music, the end of everything that makes me love life (cars, nature, friends). It had to be ingrained into our being with purpose.

I'm finding it hard to put the right words down, but I hope i offer some decent points.

No, that makes perfect sense. And I'm definitely on the same page as you with music (and cars, nature, and friends) for that matter. But it's in those things and through those things that I worship God. I think I made this point earlier, but I can't imagine that any of those things (or at least appreciation of them) would exist without intentionally being created.

Art (be it music, photography, or car modification) is to me, one of the greatest indications of a higher power. It has no use in the natural "animal" world, and thus, has had no reason to evolve and become an integral part of humanity's existence.

[msanch24]

Art (be it music, photography, or car modification) is to me, one of the greatest indications of a higher power. It has no use in the natural "animal" world, and thus, has had no reason to evolve and become an integrate part of humanity's existence.

Now this I understand...Very well made point. I'll have to mill this one over...

[bu villain]

I can't imagine that any of those things (or at least appreciation of them) would exist without intentionally being created.

Reality doesn't require you to be able to imagine it.

Art (be it music, photography, or car modification) is to me, one of the greatest indications of a higher power. It has no use in the natural "animal" world, and thus, has had no reason to evolve and become an integral part of humanity's existence.

Skills and asthetics are clearly useful in the "natural animal world" (strange term). Also you shouldn't assume nature is some perfect process where nothing unnecessary happens, evolution is perfectly efficient, etc. Something you may or may not find interesting:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...5biomusic.html

As someone who considers themself an ethical atheist. I would be glad to answer any of your questions regarding why I don't go around murdering and stealing from everyone I meet.

[RL...]

No, that makes perfect sense. And I'm definitely on the same page as you with music (and cars, nature, and friends) for that matter. But it's in those things and through those things that I worship God. I think I made this point earlier, but I can't imagine that any of those things (or at least appreciation of them) would exist without intentionally being created.

Art (be it music, photography, or car modification) is to me, one of the greatest indications of a higher power. It has no use in the natural "animal" world, and thus, has had no reason to evolve and become an integral part of humanity's existence.

People listen to music for things like entertainment and relaxing which, I mean come on what animals don't like to relax? People take pictures because for entertainment and for jobs to earn money to buy food and to keep ourselves sheltered which is natural instinct. People mod cars because we are reckless animals that like doing stupid shit and getting adrenaline rushes and also because a nice car is a status symbol which can help us get girls to reproduce with, all very basic instincts. See, all natural stuff here. =D

[RL...]

exactly my point, religious people in general need to stop acting like their beliefs aren't exclusively based on faith, which they are.

[ahabion]

exactly my point, religious people in general need to stop acting like their beliefs aren't exclusively based on faith, which they are.

If people are trying to look for scientific evidence of God, then they're barking up the wrong tree. Faith is well defined in Christian Biblical scripture. For those who would call themselves Christians need not tangible evidence to see but rather the evidence in which Christians seek 'should' be apparent in their everyday life, which should be to conduct and live a life worthy of the Gospel.

To clarify your statement more RL... for those who would say otherwise, they must continue to renew their minds. For were it not by faith, then there is nothing else to talk about. Tell them to read Hebrews 11 (the whole chapter) and the beginning of chapter 12. Then you will be right, they would have been wrong, and in doing so, the hope is that they would be enlightened.

[wanggsticky]

I'm trying to seek for higher truth as well and I was wondering, does the Bible go into explanation of the never ending universe; galaxies, stars, dark matter, maybe even aliens[ if they were of any existence ]?

Not trying to change the subject, it's just what I'm studying is all based on scientific reasoning (astronomy) , which makes me wonder the question I've stated above.

[ahabion]

I'm trying to seek for higher truth as well and I was wondering, does the Bible go into explanation of the never ending universe; galaxies, stars, dark matter, maybe even aliens[ if they were of any existence ]?

Not trying to change the subject, it's just what I'm studying is all based on scientific reasoning (astronomy) , which makes me wonder the question I've stated above.

Other than what is stated from the initial creation and the very end, no.

[msanch24]

Perhaps Christianity isn't the culprit. Maybe it's the scapegoat.

Just thinking out loud. Good point, Andy. ^^

[Nerdsrock22]

Imagine if you read about a serial killer tomorrow who went out and killed hundreds of pig farmers in the name of Judaism, giving the Jewish law against pork. He'd be rightfully labeled a lunatic and a corrupter of Jewish traditions. He becomes the antithesis to the average Jew. You take someone like Fred Phelps from Westboro Church however, and everyone lumps those crazies in with the rest of American Christians, when in reality, the truth couldn't be farther away.

[msanch24]

Imagine if you read about a serial killer tomorrow who went out and killed hundreds of pig farmers in the name of Judaism, giving the Jewish law against pork. He'd be rightfully labeled a lunatic and a corrupter of Jewish traditions. He becomes the antithesis to the average Jew. You take someone like Fred Phelps from Westboro Church however, and everyone lumps those crazies in with the rest of American Christians, when in reality, the truth couldn't be farther away.

True. "It is never the ideology, rather man's ability to bastardize even the purest of intentions".