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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    Actually punishment is not based on morality always. Running a red light is not immoral, especially if you make sure the intersection is clear first but we punish people for it because it makes the streets safer. From a Christian perspective, why should anyone be punished by other people? I thought the Bible says not to judge others and that God is responsible for justice.
    All laws flow from an understanding of morality. The government is charged with a moral obligation to protect and enforce rules that will protect citizens.

    Now of course this is not the same kind of universal morality that we normally speak of. But for the believer, breaking the red light law, is an immoral act against the laws of God. Because we are commanded to follow the laws of God and the laws of the authorities placed over us (as long as they do not conflict with the laws of God), then we are responsible for obeying traffic laws, and following the legal framework as laid out by the authorities that God has placed over us.

    I also believe there is a difference between our internal moral code and our development or the revelation of laws in our universe. One is embedded and we do not need to discover it because it is already within us, and the other needs to be revealed and can be very subjective based on an infinite number of factors.
    "Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."

    ~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
    full article

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    Quote Originally Posted by sport_122 View Post
    But for the believer, breaking the red light law, is an immoral act against the laws of God. Because we are commanded to follow the laws of God and the laws of the authorities placed over us (as long as they do not conflict with the laws of God), then we are responsible for obeying traffic laws, and following the legal framework as laid out by the authorities that God has placed over us.
    For your own sake, I hope you never move to an authoritarian country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    For your own sake, I hope you never move to an authoritarian country.
    Well authoritarian gov'ts don't typically do well for anyone, but my world view would not changed. I would obey (to the best of my rebellious tendencies) every law that does not conflict with what is a higher law. Keep in mind that i believe this physical existence is only a piece of the whole me. I value life, but death is not the end.

    The type of government doesn't matter. Look at history. We see people of faith in every culture, every tongue, and of every color. My worldview beckons me to subscribe to a greater rule of authority, and never does it promise me that this is simple. In fact it tells me the opposite. People died in Nazi Germany because they would not conform, some die in China because they will not conform, Christians were slaughtered in Rome for sport because they would not renounce their faith. People on this very forum have taken on assaults and ridicule just for saying they believe and their faith is in Christ. Why would I expect differently from the rest of the world? I don't.

    Do you think democracies are better?
    "Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."

    ~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
    full article

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