What do you think?
Happens when you die? (real talk for a minute) This has been a heavy subject the past few weeks at work and home (I work with my family). I can say im a spiritual person, and embrace my jewish heritage, but as much as I believe there is a higher being, I have always wondered if heaven is just a way to make dying more manageable or if there really is something else.. What's your thoughts?
Val For President
R.I.P. Our Dear Leisa..
ASAP N.E. Chapter VP
No more supra
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
NIKON Squad member| NikonD40
Depends on your death, it can. As evidenced many times over, some "people" stick around on Earth for either a little while or for eternity. For people that do leave the planet (if they really leave at all), no one truly knows. For what people say about Heaven, I hope it's there and I go there. But I guess I just don't know. Later, QD.
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I'm with QD on this. I don't really know. The bible speaks of their being a heaven and so therefore I guess there is, but do I know for a fact? No. Why are some people left behind to wonder the earth? I mean there are so many questions, but honestly can never be answered. It if makes death easier to deal by believing their is a heaven, then what's the problem? I can only trust in what I read because by questioning I will never have the answers.
THAT'S MY JAM!
Originally Posted by Dirty Octopus
Best answer possible.....
i'm with QD
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
I would guess nothing happens but I don't really know. Of course believing in an afterlife or heaven sure makes death a lot less scary. For good or bad, we fear the unknown, that's human nature.
I know there is a heaven and i'm a strong believer of my faith. I don't try to argue with people about if its real or fake and if god does or don't exist. That isnt what he wants nor is the bible about. I just can say this when i die id rather be at peace knowing or believing there is a better place for me in the after life. That heaven and my family is waiting for me. Why would i wanna be a nay sayer what does that do for me when its my time. Those are the ones who will worry and be scared the most. When you have no hope or dreams of what is for you to come. That is what will be the scary part of dieing.
I know ill be going happy and at peace i just pray for the ones that will be lost and damned for eternity.
I know you believe strongly in your faith so you might not see my point (and I'm not trying to conflict you), but there is a difference in "knowing" and "faith." You don't "know" that there is a heaven. You faith allows you to believe there is a heaven. And I find nothing at all wrong with that. It's great to have something to believe in. A belief of an afterlife where you could spend a happy eternity. I honeslty hope that that is how it ends and I'd want to be a par of that. However;
Not "knowing for sure" what is to become of us, it can be hard to say. Some people live their life on facts. Not one human being on this Earth knows for a fact that there is a heaven. I strive to do good in my life so that if that time comes and if there is Heaven that will allow me to enter, then I'll be glad to. I follow the 10 Commandments to a tee (aside from the dreaded GD word which I hate myself for using each time i do) and hope that my actions on Earth will be rewarded nicely when I'm not of this Earth. I guess we'll see, huh. Later, QD.
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Personally I wouldn't waste time energy and effort w/ this one. Focus on what you can see and taste and touch and feel. Make this life here on Earth the best life that you can... it is liekly the only life that you will have. To ask the invisible for more than what we as a people have already bveen blessed with is is just plain rude. IMO the BLESSING is the opportunity that you have already been given to live on this rock and make good choices and help people and live a good life - I feel that it ends there. IMHO when you die you're done.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
That's kind of how I'm doing. I live my life well. I don't steal, kill, do things that would endanger people, live a reckless life, do drugs, cheat or anything that would be immoral. I live almost a Christian-like life without really being a Christian. If Heaven is there for me, then cool. If not, then cool. But I'm living my life now how I think it should be lived. Later, QD.
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I agree with this too.. I realize I only have one life on earth to live.. and Im going to live it to my full capacity. I will love to the fullest, live to the fullest, and strive to be the best woman I can be.
Val For President
R.I.P. Our Dear Leisa..
ASAP N.E. Chapter VP
No more supra
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
NIKON Squad member| NikonD40
If they was a way to prove that God doesn't exist and that when we die thats it done and over would we wanna live in that world ?
I mean we have a sinful world now full of hate crime and death if they knew for a fact and if they was no God then we would have all been dead and gone long ago from the craziness of our ways of living and the people of our world.
Who knows. No one because no one truly knows how we got here in the first place. So no one knows our purpose here. I see the better argument to prove His existence than to disprove it.
Again, I'm not knocking you as I don't do that. Your posts are strongly faith driven and that's why you favor the existence of God. I'm on the fence so I'm able to see both sides. That's all, man. Later, QD.
FOR MORE INFO, CLICK THE PIC!!!
Yes sir to everyone their own...But when you die and if you haven't accepted Jesus as your savior and God as his father your creator. Then you wont get in to heaven but for a few seconds to be judged and sent to hell for not following his most important rule and that is to know and Acknowledge thy father and the holy Christ his son.
See That I dont agree.. Im jewish and we dont accept him as our savior.. yet I still believe if there is a heaven I will be going there.
Val For President
R.I.P. Our Dear Leisa..
ASAP N.E. Chapter VP
No more supra
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
NIKON Squad member| NikonD40
The Jews are the ones who crucified him and Christ died so they could be forgiven and if you still dont accept him then well.......
Have you actually read the old testiment.. Do you realize the difference between jews and christians? Do you also realize if it werent for jewish people you wouldnt have christianity?
Val For President
R.I.P. Our Dear Leisa..
ASAP N.E. Chapter VP
No more supra
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
NIKON Squad member| NikonD40
The Jewish people crucified Jesus thats what i do know and he died for them and all of us.
So what you're saying is you have not.. Then you obviously couldnt comprehend why I am saying what I am saying as a jew..
Val For President
R.I.P. Our Dear Leisa..
ASAP N.E. Chapter VP
No more supra
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
NIKON Squad member| NikonD40
No i read the new testament king James version. I would exspect a jew to read and think different thats not the point my point is to just live a good and sinless life and accept god and Jesus and all who do will go to heaven.
Thats your opinion.. but again being a jew even I know the jews did NOT crucify jesus.. even in the new Testament.. but this is way off topic.. Back to the original question.
Val For President
R.I.P. Our Dear Leisa..
ASAP N.E. Chapter VP
No more supra
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
NIKON Squad member| NikonD40
Here is my take on the matter:
Through my research I have concluded that some type of evolution is true. That means humans evolved from some type of other primate, and that other type of primate evolved from some type of monkey, and that type of monkey evolved from some other type of mammal, and that type of mammal evolved... going all way back to the most simplest of creatures.
These simple creatures could not be judged by their actions. You can not judge a mouse on it's integrity, you can not judge a fish by it's morals, you can not judge a bacterium by it's ethics.
So where in human evolution did the ability to be judged and go to an afterlife occur? Did it occur in Homo Erectus? Were pre-homo sapiens able to go to Heaven? Where is this bold clear line of NO HEAVEN / HEAVEN in human evolution? Since there isn't really a bold clear line in evolution anyway, how can something so black/white, on/off such as a Heaven/Hell exist? Why are humans so determined that we are so different than the rest of the animal kingdom? We are animals just like dogs, cats, squirrels, mice. The only thing majorly different is our brain power. If our brain is the only major component so different, then the soul must be in the brain. But the brain is a material object, so how can an immaterial object depend solely on this material brain object. So when your brain gets destroyed you unique humanness is also destroyed. So how do you go to Heaven without your material brain? You can't. So I guess there is no Heaven/Hell.
Last edited by zimabog; 10-22-2009 at 08:40 PM.
stfu that shit is just ignorant dont stray from from op topic
heaven for me i hope lassie , i fully believe in the man upstairs
amen to that lol
The op topic is "Happens when you die?"
Debating whether Jesus was killed by Jews or Romans is not the question.
People are afraid of death. Thinking that they won't really die makes them happy - feel better about themselves. Humans are aware of their own impending death, but are in a high level of denial. It's probably because society today is so selfish that they cannot picture leaving everything that they've accomplished here - and have nothing afterwards. A heaven - could be a place of pure happiness, and have powers that could provide anyone with whatever they desire.
This, motivates them to "work hard" to reach heaven. Stupidity at its best.
I agree that believing in heaven may make the end of life easier for some however some of us don't feel that just because we want it to be true makes it so. We aren't trying to be "nay sayers" we are just admitting our own ignorance...also known as humility.
I would absolutely. I enjoy living on this world and I don't believe in God as it is. Just cause the party has to end sometime doesn't mean you should just stay home. It's quite the opposite, if our life really is over when we die, time is even more precious so you better make the most of it while you are alive.
This is an interesting thread.
I am a believer. I believe the claims that Christ made based on pieces of evidence, but I also don't believe the methodological thinking that we place on our understanding of heaven. For instance the thought process of the clouds and golden pearly gates and golden streets, etc etc... that was a construct of men and that idea is not really supported in the Bible. I think that we have lost some of the meaning and understanding of what heaven is, and maybe we never really understood it. Because I believe the Bible to be accurate, I can look at the accounts of men who were gifted to be able to look into heaven, but even in their accounts there are things that we are not supposed to know, which is evident when the angels give instruction to not record certain things that are seen.
But I definitely can't agree with these two points of view:
1. I am just going to be good and see what happens (who defines good? if your goodness is defined by you then it is relative. Relative goodness is evil to someone else. To some people we are evil just because we are Americans, in this case whose moral compass trumps the other. If you base your goodness on the bible and following the commandments (Jewish or not) then you have to admit that the Bible says that none are good except one. This is evidenced for Christians by the need for death and resurrection of Christ, and this is evidenced by Jews by their continued need for sacrifices as a way to repent to God for breaking the law. Either way the Bible says to Jews and Christians, you trying to be good is not good enough.)
or
2. I think we just die and that's it. With all of the accounts of the supernatural part of humanity it is strange for anyone who has really looked into this to assume that death is the end of you. I think the evidence shows that somehow, some part of us lives on in some form of existence. Ghosts, spirits of the long since dead communicating or visiting their living relatives or friends. Physical manifestations of other worldly things. These are some of the evidences for a more than physical human existence.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
and thus the reason why every man on this forum should take a very serious inquiry into the claims of Christ. (notice I did not say the claims of Christianity)
Because if the body of Christ was not produced and there were witnesses to his death, and then witness to him living (physically) AFTER his death, then even what you have written is not necessarily true. History shows that a man walked this Earth, died, and did not stay dead.
You see for me, I have no fear of death. Nor do I place the value of my life on physical things. My view on death is that it must come, but it is not the end. It makes perfect sense for a believer in Christ to cope with death by believing that they will live, because Christ said that they would live, as he said the he would live, and there is very strong evidence to suggest that death was not his end. If this is even remotely possible, then everyone on this planet should take careful consideration of the evidence with an open heart.
This is the moment that defines Christ as not just another prophet, but the true Messiah, who conquered death, (the greatest enemy to mankind).
Put yourself in the shoes of the people who witnessed this (BTW...some scholars believe there were some 500 ish witnesses to a resurrected Christ) But even now 2000 years later. Name one other person who has ever been speculated to have done this...I think anyone who does not investigates this with sincerity does their own intellect a disservice.
You act as if our worldly possessions have influenced this thought, but look at human history...we have no record of a single society who widely thought that death was the end. But just so you know we have records of countless societies who have had nothing, and still lived with an understanding that death is not the end. This idea is not thought up, its ingrained in our humanity.
I actually think the denial is on the part of those who look at all the evidence and have to force themselves to think its all mumbo jumbo. I mean you really have to deny your own consciousness to believe that you are just physical meat and bones and nothing more. IF that is the case what compels you to "just be good and live a good life" Why? If your are not a morally grounded being then why not just do what you want? People do really well financially by lying and cheating and stealing. Why does that not work well for you. If you are just flesh and bones, another animal...why not go out and chase tail instead of getting married....why not eliminate all the competition, why worry about your comfort, why go to college, why vote, why visit the religion threads on this forum. None of these things make sense to me in a world where we just 'are'.
I believe that some people on here are having these discussions in an attempt to justify their life apart from their spirituality because they are the ones trying to feel better about themselves. Make yourself feel better by finding an illiterate religion freak and telling them like it is...but ask yourself why thats important to you? If you just are, why is it important to you to try to get in these types of conversations. There is something more to every single one of us because somehow we are all in the same boat. And for those of you who fit this description you can't make me feel any worse than I do when I think about my wrongdoing leading to the sacrifice of a man who had no fault. That makes me hurt, because I cannot stop doing wrong and every time there is a painful reminder of why I am a believer in Christ. You can't make believers feel worse than that.
sorry for the length
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
why do we even have a religion section? it's a waste. there is no right/wrong answer. no one knows for sure. this argument has been going on forever and will continue to go on forever so what's the point in going back and forth with each other? you believe what you want to believe.
That's fine if it makes you more comfortable with death, however that doesn't add any truth value nor does it provide any evidence for the existence of a god. Non-believers can't just choose to have blind faith in something that makes no logical sense to them...except for maybe Kirk Cameron, but not the case with the majority of atheists. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Saying that either there's no god or the Christian god is a false dichotomy. What if you're worshiping the wrong god? There are many religions that damn all nonbelievers, so the odds of the Christian god being the right one, if there is a god in the first place, are very slim.
There doesn't have to be an invisible guy looking over everyone's shoulder for people to do good things. If I know that this is the only life I'll get, it has much more value than if I know I will live infinitely past my death. As Steven Weinberg put it, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." When looking at the whole timeline of human evolution, religion only came into existence in our most recent ancestors. We did just fine up until that point. Religion is purely man made.
I believe that when your body dies, your mind follows suit and returns to a state of nonexistence, just like before your birth. There's no good evidence to suggest that a soul transcends the body or that there is any sort of afterlife. I think believing otherwise is just wishful thinking. When you die, you're dead. That's it, no escape to a magical sky kingdom, no eternal suffering. Feeling this way makes me realize just how precious life is and how privileged I am to be a part of it.
you die then decompose.
your body is still there. your mind is brought wherever you want it to go. just like in life.
Death is eternal imagination.
SUCCESS!!!!!!!!
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
x2
QD you are going to hell for all of the negative reps that you have provided the general IA populace.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
But I should be rewarded aptly for the positives Ive bestowed upon people as well. Later, QD.
FOR MORE INFO, CLICK THE PIC!!!
So please, define good, because there are plenty of "good" people doing evil things that are not people of some sort of faith. My point is that I do not consider myself good nor do I consider myself religious. Religious to me defines a person who believes that their goodness or lack of determines their sanctity. If I could honestly look at my life and consider myself to be "good" then there is a problem with my own view of myself. I have lied, I have stolen, I have hurt other people...so how can I qualify myself as good? All it takes is one time. The question of morality is right and wrong...it is yes or no...you either are good or you are not. If you have any wrong in you then you cannot be good. I could have lived a great life and my only wrong doing was murder...am I still good? I only did one wrong thing...why would I be bad? What is your definition of good vs bad? Do you think its a scale...the amount of good vs the amount of bad...now how do you know if your "good" deeds in and of themselves did not cause bad results? Are they still good if they do?There doesn't have to be an invisible guy looking over everyone's shoulder for people to do good things. If I know that this is the only life I'll get, it has much more value than if I know I will live infinitely past my death. As Steven Weinberg put it, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
My point is that this statement assumes a universal definition and understanding of good. We do not carry one, yet we have a morally understood code, which Weinberg denies...well this is a philosophical problem. We do not have a definition of good yet we can call the acts of a man good or evil...This statement doesn't really make sense in his world view because good and evil are relative constructs of human intellect, and there is no ground for you to judge my good or bad because it is just as valuable as yours. When we prosecuted the generals of Nazi Germany this was not a suitable defense "in our country, doing what we did was legal therefor you cannot punish us for what we did in service of our country under our countries law" they made this argument and we said, yes we can because the laws that you violated were laws against all of mankind and the laws of man condemn you.
that is false. We do not have records of any society that was religion/faith free. Not a one. Now if you are talking about organized widespread religion then that is a different story...the mega churches and cultural priorities that infiltrate faith systems is damaging and that is something that happened in the last 3000 years.
But I actually find it interesting that you said the wrong God vs the right God. For instance when you address the Judeo-Christian God vs Zeus and Thor, you are now talking about something much different. You are talking about something that has been argued with evidence vs something that has none to support the existence. This is a very significant that should be addressed.
You are right though about some people taking more evidence to believe. I am one of those people, and it took tons of evidence for me to believe what I believe, but I will say that the evidence is there and I believe it is an act of God to open hearts to understanding of such things, because in the hardness of our hearts we can deny anything regardless of evidence...
But back on topic,
The question about what happens after you die is not just a Christian question, but so many approach it that way when just about every religion contributes its understanding of morality to some sort of after this life reward. Now my beliefs are that the Christian faith has the best evidence laid out that if you were to bring the case to a court there could be no wrong, just as there was no wrong in Christ.
How do you give account to the enumerable religions that all have beliefs in the afterlife, and how do you account for the studies that have been done and the paranormal to support such beliefs? I don't believe that the thousands upon thousands of accounts of paranormal activity are all wrong. In fact all it takes is one account to be true, just like with UFO's, Jesus.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
This isn't evidence for an afterlife. It is evidence that religions understand a promise of reward/punishment helps to change behaviors.
One of the main purposes of religion is to answer the scary and difficult questions in life in order to make people feel better or more comfortable. If a religion claimed there were no afterlife it sure would be harder to control people's behaviour.
Even though I don't necessarily agree I will concede there are legitimate paranormal phenomenon for the sake of argument. That still doesn't prove an afterlife. We certainly don't understand such phenomena (if they exist at all) so I think it's rather premature to use them to claim it proves an afterlife. For example, it could be a lingering energy thats like a snapshot of a person's thoughts before they died. It hardly proves they still have consciousness. Also, there is absolutely no reason to believe its for eternity either.
Gary Schwartz's study demonstrated that something is left of the consciousness of people who are deceased. He of course gets flaked for it because it is not mainstream, but none-the-less he provided hard data that when looked at objectively makes a good case for something going on that is legitimate.
Also, the idea of whether or not there is an eternity is a different discussion, we can go into that too, but I thought this thread was simply about what we thought happens when you die. Even if that afterlife is only for a couple of moments to a couple of decades there is still something left to be understood about what makes us who we are.
Humans are physical, mental, and spiritual. We possess something that cannot be measured through hard science and numbers because these things transcend the physical. To understand their existence and to define them scientifically are two different things. I am suggesting that there is life...I am not suggesting that we have been able to scientifically pen the specifics of the transition into that life after life.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
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