Sorry OP but this post is almost completely off topic.

Christian, there are plenty of other threads that this type of conversation could live in. but here is my response none the less.

Quote Originally Posted by _Christian_ View Post
You aren't necessarily evil because you have done those things. Whether you are good or not has less to do with the quantity of evil deeds and more to do with the impact of those deeds on other people. If you murdered someone than you have caused the ultimate harm to that person. That makes you more evil than liars or thieves because you have inflicted the worst possible damage upon your fellow man.
So... you also said this
I believe that when your body dies, your mind follows suit and returns to a state of nonexistence, just like before your birth.
Well if this is the case then how do you rationalize penalties for murder. If life has no value save for a little bit of fun, then why does it have value should it be taken? Why does the individual life, in your world view, warrant protecting? If once a person is dead, they have not cognitive or conscious existence then why are they valuable?

The bible says it's a sin to lie, but what if I lived in Nazi Germany and was hiding Jews in my home. Then one day the Gestapo comes by and asks if I'm harboring Jews. In that case would lying be immoral? Would I be a better person for telling the truth?
Again this question is misrepresenting the foundations of the Christian world view. As I stated in a previous post, you cannot be a better person either way, whether you tell the truth this time or whether you lie. It is very clear that the Bible states that none of us are good people. So in my worldview the only thing that can justify your actions, as loving actions, to save the lives of those you are harboring, is Christ, as his life is the only one that I believe to have ever been truly good.

Also, you misrepresent the commandment of lying. The commandments are about the condition of the heart during the deeds written with in. In other words, there is a very distinct difference between lying to save because of love, and lying to lie because of self preservation or malice intent. The condition of the heart in either of these opposing deeds is completely different. In the book of Samual God tells Samuel to be careful how he looks upon David (who would later be king), do not judge him based on his appearance because I have already rejecting him based on this, and then God tells Samuel, "but I am not a man, and what I am looking at (when looking at David) is his heart".

This is important, because as men we often try to judge whether or not we are "good" based on the outward. We do the same thing when we look at the character of God. But we cannot understand God therefore we are not able to give judgement toward him, yet we are given the

You don't always know. Sometimes what seems like the right thing to do can be wrong, in that case the deed is no longer good. However that doesn't make the person bad if they really meant to do good, it just means they made a mistake. I still think people should be held accountable for all their actions regardless of intent.

While I don't think there is an absolute objective good or evil, modern society has a fairly universal understanding of morality. We may disagree on some things but we have a general concept of what's right and what's wrong. Like I said above, it's based on how your actions effect those around you.
If there is no absolute morality, then how do you justify punishing anyone? If there is no absolute then how can you justify debating things in this thread? In saying there is no absolute, then you remove the validity of any statement that you make because you admit that what you say is not necessarily true, but its your opinion and anything you do is okay as long as it is your rule for yourself. This is where you lose the ability to punish those who do wrong because they are doing what is within their moral compass.

My christian world view, holds this accountability. How, because I believe that God is just, and that nothing can escape his justice and nothing can escape his law. I believe that his law is the absolute of which all men have built into the very DNA that identifies us. Outside of this worldview is relativism. You have just demonstrated relativism by saying that a persons actions can be bad, the person can be good, and they should be punished still.

Please show me evidence of religion in Homo habilis or even Homo erectus...
This question assumes that I believe in this type of evolution. I don't. But I can say that in all of our history and pre-history, every man that we can truthfully understand their ways of life, had some sort of understanding of our extra-physical existence. Which is why I said religion/faith. Because in all of our existence we have always known there was more, but we do not truly "know" God until he reveals himself to us.

You can know that something is there but now "know" the specifics of that thing.

They are all unfalsifiable and there is no evidence to support the existence of any god.

If that's the case you should publish a peer reviewed scientific journal with all of your "evidence."
The evidence is great. Its your ability or desire to really try to understand it that is lacking. Only a person in denial makes a statement like that. You see, I believe that all men know that there is a God, and we know that we have a set of rules of which we should live by that transcend our societal understandings of law. I think that is one of the reasons why people spend so much time trying to refute the evidence that is presented.

Much like your mother telling you to clean your room and you hear her calling your name ,but you simply ignore it. You know that she has the authority over you, yet you ignore her. You know that she can come into the room and punish you, yet you ignore her for the sake of your own foolishness, because you realize that your mother eventually will come and will set forth her authority over you. This is an example of the denial that I think some men demonstrate. You know in your deepest core that God is real, and so desperately we want to do our best to try to put him out of our minds because we also know that he is just and that he is powerful and that we have been running from him.



"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."


Consensus does not equate truth.[/quote]

I agree... so how can you be a relativist? Now remember that same thing when you try to argue evolutionary stand points and when you try to explain away morality. How do you suppose this statement to be true in your world view...in mine, Truth exists, in yours how does it? how do you have absolute truth in a world of relativism?

My point in all of this is that in order to even begin to make statements to support your world view, you have demonstrated that we must take away ideas from the Christian world view. You mentioned justice, you mentioned truth, you mentioned law...and all of these things have no grounding in anything if they are seen purely as constructs of men and products of culture in society. If that were the case, then your world view also believes that you are foolish for wasting time discussion these things of which you do not believe to be true/real.