Then I have two questions for you:
Who elects the president?
Who won the popular vote (of which these polls gauge) in 2000?
In other words, polls don't mean jack ****.
That is all.
Happy that Obama is slipping in the polls?
Then I have two questions for you:
Who elects the president?
Who won the popular vote (of which these polls gauge) in 2000?
In other words, polls don't mean jack ****.
That is all.
actually what i don't understand is the current focus on Hillary supporters... you have to be kidding me that people would jump ship to McCain from Hillary. That is like believing in God and now worshiping SatanDon't make since(lol).
Originally Posted by admin
actually what i don't understand is the current focus on Hillary supporters... you have to be kidding me that people would jump ship to McCain from Hillary. That is like believing in God and now worshiping Satan
We all know why they are jumping ship just thinking about it....
They have a choice between a candidate that have similar views as "their" pick or some on with a different approach, and they choosing the guy with the different approach. WTF?!? That's telling me that they aren't voting for the right reasons now.
I wonder how the election would go if it was on the radio and not broadcast on television?
i would assume most people don't vote for the right reasons - most mccain supports couldn't tell you his stance on a lot of sh!t nor to they probably remember him trying to jump ship and become a democrat back year 2000's, but the same goes w/ democrats people vote by the party not by the views of the leader a lot of times.
no doubt
And Obama supporter cant tell you a thing either. I actually follow the race closely so you cant tell me i haven't a clue.
I saw T.I. the other day blaming bush for gas prices going up while at a pro Obama event. Some people just like to blame everything on the president. I guess if my car brakes down it is the presidents fault too.
Oh and Tony: this has been going on for 2 months.
McCain 08!
And Obama supporter cant either. I actually follow the race closely so you cant tell me i haven't a clue.
I saw T.I. the other day blaming bush for gas prices going up. Some people just like to blame everything on the president. I guess if my car brakes down it is the presidents fault too.
Yeah, its the theory that bull**** trickles downstream, lol. Many people look at the President as the one in charge, so of course he should take all the heat, but its not all his fault. Comes with the territory.
The Hilary supporters are leaving mainly b/c of Obama's color, point blank and period. Yes, they did not have similar views on a lot of topics, but I don't see how they justify hopping on McCain's side for that reason alone. I hate to pull the color card, but it is what it is
IF OBama was really the "call for change" and "do away with old politics" and so many people hate bush he should be DESTROYING Mccain in this election but he isnt.
Why is that?
1) He preaches change yet has demonstrated time and time again hes just as OLD POLITICS as anyone else
2) He has no substance
3) People are scared of a guy who has ZERO EXPERIENCE
4) Biden was about the WORST person he could have chosen. How can you preach old and tired politics suck then go out an get a 70 year old attatck dog VP running mate that is about as old washington as it gets.
5) I think you are starting to see people are very uncertain about what would happen if Obama got in.
At least with Mcain you KNOW you are going to have a similar 4 years as bush, similar policy, etc. With Obama no one has a CLUE what is going to happen. The future is uncertain, and to the CORE group of voters (lower to upper middle class white voters), they arent hearing what they want to hear.
Obama def can still win, but IMO if he didnt have a 15-20 point lead by now, then hes in trouble, and i think hes in BIG TROUBLE. If people are so tired of Bush and what Bush has been doing, then Obama should be WAY OUT IN FRONT and hes not.
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Actually i blame Hillary supporters on being insane. I mean that the refurse to not have Hillary in office. Seriously, they really were expecting Obama to choose herYeah, its the theory that bull**** trickles downstream, lol. Many people look at the President as the one in charge, so of course he should take all the heat, but its not all his fault. Comes with the territory.
The Hilary supporters are leaving mainly b/c of Obama's color, point blank and period. Yes, they did not have similar views on a lot of topics, but I don't see how they justify hopping on McCain's side for that reason alone. I hate to pull the color card, but it is what it is. Anyways, no, they are all pmsing that she is out of the white house and just want to piss people off. Yes, this is free votes for McCain.
Mike, I respect your points, but everyone knows that change is the hardest thing to accept. Of course we don't know what is going to "happen" with Obama's said "change". It is a risk that needs to be taken to see the picture. I do agree that is is uncertain. Think, Bush voters are kicking themselves right now because they thought they knew what they were getting. Ha, he showed them!
The CORE groups of voters that you described are not voting for Obama b/c of the color, and you know it. If Obama said what everyone wanted him to say, they still wouldn't vote for him. Majority of this country is not ready for Obama, and it will not be for another 12-16 years. A black person (or person of color) does not belong in the White House in this countries eyes. Hilary voters left the camp as soon as she was not nominated, not because of Obama's views, but color.
I can't find the post, but someone said in an older thread that he is just a black guy that talks well! I mean, ****, no matter what black people do it is still not good enough. I mean, why do you think he was chosen in the first place?
You can say that I am riding the race wall, but it is what it is!
Tell me how McCain is sooo much better? Everything in this country has accepted change, execpt our flakey leadership.
Last edited by AirMax95; 08-26-2008 at 09:40 AM.
i agree with nearly everything you stated above, i was never really loving the mcain pres. idea but compared to the unknown future we would have with obama that on its own is about enough for me!
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Airmax you are entitled to your opinion, im not going to say you are wrong.
But i think Race is not a big a deal as people are making it out to be.
The problem with your statement to me is that people are willing to just say "**** it lets see what happens" with the HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE COUNTRY! I mean we dont let Generals, CEOs of companies, etc have that kind of leeway why should the presidency?
I get it, most people dont like Bush you want something different, thats fine, but dont you want to know what that DIFFERENCE IS? I mean i could stand up an preach that im different than Bush and ill be better, ill make you mjore money, ill end wars, ill stop the energy crisis. Nevermind HOW im going to do it, just know that im GOING to do it.
LOL
To me its a double standard. if Obama DOESNT win it will be because he was black and the racial divide will grow. If he Does win, itll be because people voted for him BECAUSE HES BLACK, not his policies.
IMO its not the white poeple you should be criticizing, rather the vast majority of African Americans who are voting FOR OBAMA simple BECAUSE he is black.
IMO of course
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Also ill say i think its extremely poor and sad that in this day in age, BOTH SIDES, white and black, have or are going to make this a race issue.
I could care less that Obama is black, i just dont like him as a candidate.
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How do you explaind the OVERWHELMING support for Colin Powell? If Colin Powell would have run 8 years ago he would have won in a landslide. Polls at the time were 2:1 in favor of him, a BLACK MAN.
The Clintons are some of the most pandering to blacks people on the planet. They jump at every chance to get in the camera to help the less fortunate, but somehow it always seems to be blacks they are helping lol.
Clinton was the biggest African American supporter with his social programs geared toward alot of them, not whites that were in the same areas with the same problems.
and the Democratic party is historically the "Black Party". ALmost every election more than 80% of the black vote goes to Dems, but this year there is MORE BLACK PEOPLE VOTING than ever before.
So i dont buy the Hillary supporters are going to mcain because hes white, sorry.
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To me its a double standard. if Obama DOESNT win it will be because he was black and the racial divide will grow. If he Does win, itll be because people voted for him BECAUSE HES BLACK, not his policies.
IMO its not the white poeple you should be criticizing, rather the vast majority of African Americans who are voting FOR OBAMA simple BECAUSE he is black.
IMO of course[/QUOTE]
unfortunatly you are right, its sad to say. win or lose the racial divide will grow with some people because they are to stubbern to except it and will blame the opp. race! i listened to a debate on this on the radio yesterday and one white guy was saying that a record number of black voters will be voting that have never voted b4 and have bumper stickers that have never had them b4. while a black guy was using the arguement that the whites have always been in more powerful postions since the early 1900s and whites are just scared to change that!
to me both of the people seemed racist and were acting like they werent. that it was all the other person. i wish that noone knew what the canidates looked like and then see the election results!
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I will have to agree to disagree w/ you on this Mike. I think the biggest difference between the two candidates is McCain plains on staying the course which if you haven't noticed isn't working for US. Our economy is in a sh!t can and a major change is needed quickly before you start to see this super power drop in world market.
Obama though can be said he is inexperience is the embodiment of America. Laugh if you like but I think he is fresh and exciting - I see him as the JFK of our generation. We currently have a president many voted into office 2x w/ tons of experience and he hasn't done jack ****. Obamas wife said it perfect last night, "THIS IS AN ELECTION OF DREAMS NOT FEARS".
I can't imagine what some people are thinking about wanting to endure another 4 years of Bush policy. Unfortunately I do think race is going to play a huge part in the next election. We'll see if minorities make it to the poles to support their canidate b/c we know the christian movement will be voting McCain. You can't expect the OLD and TIRED to vote anything else.
touche
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but you do know the reason why our economy sucks is
1) The housing industry and crooked banks over lending (nothing to do with Bush) has tanked the economy. Its affecting every sector almost in the financial districts. Thousands defaulting on loans, banks going out of business, people cant buy homes now cant get loans for anything etc.
2) Oil Prices going up (you can argue its because we are in iraq, but the majority of analysts believe its because of Chinas increased demand)
3) Because of gas prices US Automakers are suffering (as they have been for years) because poeple arent buying SUVs they are going to foreign gas machines (Honda, Toyota, etc)
4) The only think i will blame Bush for is letting a ton of jobs go overseas. That along with illegal immigration is a serious threat to our infrastructure. Think about it jobs are going OVERSEAS leaving here, and the jobs left behind are being given to illegal aliens that dont pay taxes and mooch off our Healthcare system.
Other than that the economy is NOT BUSHs fault.
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That and the fact that he is a man, they do more of an injustice to the feminist movement by pulling this bull**** than anything else. McCain who wants to do away with Roe vs. Wade is the better choice than the candidate who is pro choice? Give me a damn break.Yeah, its the theory that bull**** trickles downstream, lol. Many people look at the President as the one in charge, so of course he should take all the heat, but its not all his fault. Comes with the territory.
The Hilary supporters are leaving mainly b/c of Obama's color, point blank and period. Yes, they did not have similar views on a lot of topics, but I don't see how they justify hopping on McCain's side for that reason alone. I hate to pull the color card, but it is what it is
I will agree alot of the Clinton supporters are Femi-Nazis
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all of which are true but 700+ billion dollar war and a lack of white house support hasn't helped us one bit. i think Bush had an excellent opportunity to show why he was voted into office and it seems he has failed his voters and the rest of the country.
Completely understood. I followed Obama when he was in Chicago, I see how he worked there. I personally feel that we need a change in that someone who is more down to earth with the poeple of this country, not just the "well to do" and wealthy. It may be hard to grasp, but they guy knows his stuff. He has a record of pulling together a team to work seamlessly for the common good. He has not demonstrated a personal agenda, no record of screwing up, and from 1997 to the present he has progressed quickly in a positive light. I agree that he does not have the experience that McCain has, nor is he older than Ga red clay, but what does do is listen----analyze-----listen----research-----analyze-----decide.
For instance, he was all for pulling out of the war immediately, then he stated a timeline, then that timeline changed. You say filp flop, I say he listened and got more insight and advice. Bottom line, he is willing to listen and not fly off the handle and screw America.
Double standard, I COMPLETELY AGREE! I criticize BOTH, but in constructive manner. I know that many african americans are voting for him b/c he is black, just like many whites are not viting for him b/c he is black. I was responding to the post, not just slamming whites. No one should be let off the hook for voting on someones color.
....and RACE plays a big part, VERY BIG!!!
Oh yeah, i forgot about that Iraq Thing
Yes it does hurt spending that kind of money ,and i will agree i think it is at a loss to our country.
But i do think that the money was being spent some other way, i cant recall how, i remember seeing a thing on CNN about how people were complaining about the 15Billion a month we spend in Iraq, and someone posted a thing saying how before the war we were spending it on bull**** pork programs for congress .
ill see if i can find it
Again im not saying bush is the best president ever, but i do think Mcain can do a better job than Obama, i think Mcain knows what his role is and that is a 4 year calm **** down and get ready to groom the next president in 2012.
Funny thing is that last week they announced they are close to a withdrawal date for Iraq lol
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GP!!!! Our economy is sucking and he wants to pump more $$$ into the war. He is a president with a personal agenda, not a president of the people. Sure, he gave a stimulus check and is helping the housing market fix a screw up......
Not gonna cut it.
Funny thing is i agree with you, i really dont think a 70 year old white guy represents ME.
Kinda why i hate our political system cause at the end of the day, it really doesnt matter WHAT they say.
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Mike we agree on a lot of stuff, lol.
Old people are cool, but they get really stubborn after 60
1.) tax cuts for the rich (working class who spend most of their income have largest portion of tax burden)
2.) expensive, un-necassary war
3.) massive foreign debt (to pay for un-necessary war)
4.) de-regulation of energy market causing rampant speculation of fuel prices (all fuels, not just gas)
Im sorry but the Wealthy are what keep the economy going not joe schmoe . The wealthy should get Tax Breaks, to keep them invested in our economy and our infrastructure.
But the middle class get a great deal if they have kids, whats it like $3000 per kid per year now?
Proportionally the Rich have alot of taxes taken out.
My father makes over 300K a year, an last year he paid $82,000 in taxes. Its to the point now that if he gets another raise, its almost not worth it cause he will jump into another tax bracket and even more will be taken out.
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I guess if my car brakes down it is the presidents fault too.
BeFF <beef>
GECKOSQUAD
but your father is pushing up into the top 5% bracket which makes over 250k which pays the most taxes b/c they make the most, but again they are tons of tax breaks once you are up into that market. how many CEO drive FREE cars or live in FREE houses due to corp America tax system? so in the end the guy making 1 mil a year isn't having to live off of 1 mil salary more like 1/2 that.
no look at the majority of America who is making well under 100k why would they care about a guy making 300k which is almost 8x national family income. it will always come back to misuse of tax dollars. do you know how much healthcare, food, energy, 700+ billion dollars buys? with the money spent on the war we could of not had 1 person in the US go hungry or w/o heat.
i like how people keep calling it an unnecessary war.
um Iraq was totally unnecessary. we went to war w/ a country b/c of lies there was no connection between 911 and Iraq. that's why the story changed numerous times WMD, to help free people of Iraq, etc. we as a whole are no better off now as we were when Saddam was in power.i like how people keep calling it an unnecessary war.
i love people who try to justify bush's war to turn an eye from the US's current situation.
Perhaps I should clarify... it was unnecessary when we started it in 2003. Saddam Hussein posed neither a long term nor a short term threat to our national security. Afghanistan, yes.... Iraq... not so much.i like how people keep calling it an unnecessary war.
Either way we owe our buddies in China who are financing this fiasco a boat-load of money.
Im kinda mixed on IRAQ. At the time, it was a good idea imo and this is why.
We were coming off 9/11 the biggest terror attack in history on US Soil. Now, that was a wake up call that the Clinton Era failed to secure our borders and failed to stop the posing threat of terrorism.
We get attacked and now we start panicking looking for "who is going to be next".
We settle on Iraq. Here is a country in a region that is plagued with people that are very outspoken about our destruction and israels destruction. This is a region that lets face it represents the majority of the people that attacked us on 9/11.
Iran was too powerfull for us to go after, not without the possibility of a nuclear war, Afghanistan is a country of nothing but guerillas, we werent going to go after the saudis, etc.
So enter IRAQ, a country we were just 10-12 years past a war. A country that DEFIED the UN for 12 years, a country that had a horrible dictator that committed mass genocide an ethnic cleansing.
A country that was not a REAL thread, but a threat none the less. We didnt have to worry about IRAQ coming after us, we had to worry about IRAQ helping , training, funding other people in the region, like Iran. Or providing safe haven for Bin Laden, Taliban, other terrorists etc.
The WMD were never found, but there was CREDIBLE intelligience to suggest there were some there at one time, and that they were moved long before we got there. There was also nerve gas and other chemical agents found in Iraq, just no Nukes.
I think AT THE TIME, we were in a "stop terrorism before it happens" mode and Iraq provided
1) A country we could really take over and change
2) A country that was due for its ass to get kicked
3) A country that was closest to providing a DEMOCRATIC Society in the region that with hopes would spread to other nations eventually.
4) Could prove to be a valuable ally in the future
Unfortunetly i think they misunderstood the insurgents and guerilla warfare aspect and thats where we are now. But the surge is working, there is ALOT less violence now, and it seems the country will be on its own in the next 2-5 years. Question is, will it stay democratic? or will this all be for nothing. We DONT KNOW YET.
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no matter the reason we were lied to so America would support the attack on Iraq - republicans/democrats both fell into the trap of lies created by Bush and the White House.
our security previous to 911 was nothing to do w/ Clinton but a lack of security put forth by the gov't set to protect us. I remember back late 90's going to visit my brother in TX at Fort Hood which is one of the largest military bases in the world (they even have a little iraq city) but we were able to drive right on the base and sit in tanks, helicopters, etc w/o having to got through a single check point
And Afghanistan?
Ehh its no the first time we were lied to "I AM NOT A CROOKno matter the reason we were lied to so America would support the attack on Iraq - republicans/democrats both fell into the trap of lies created by Bush and the White House.
our security previous to 911 was nothing to do w/ Clinton but a lack of security put forth by the gov't set to protect us. I remember back late 90's going to visit my brother in TX at Fort Hood which is one of the largest military bases in the world (they even have a little iraq city) but we were able to drive right on the base and sit in tanks, helicopters, etc w/o having to got through a single check point
Im not sold it was an outright LIE, rather more of an overexaggeration of what we were expecting to find.
Clinton let terrorism FLURISH while he was in office. He did little to nothing to contain or attack it. Clinton had about 4 opportunities to take Bin Laden out and he decided to watch football instead. This after the USS Cole was attacked and our embassies blown up.
Because of Clintons downsizing on the military and complete turning of his back to the outside world, terrorist states were left unchecked.
That my friend is FACT.
Read Deriliction of Duty, its a book by the guy that carried the NUCLEAR FOOTBALL for CLINTON for 2 years. Pretty interesting stuff.
Clinton was a big a bumbling idiot as Bush is, Clinton was just a smooth talker, Bush isnt. I feel the same way about Obama.
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here is my take on war in general. there is no such thing as nice war so trying to be diplomatic is out of the question - Japan ring a bell!
that's what should of been done to the regions of Afghanistan that were providing support for terrorist linked to 911.
either way it doesn't matter b/c Afghanistan has failed - the US is trying to fight a ghost operation not a gov't - that is why iraq is completely different and why they had to lie to us to get the support.
overall we are no safer now as we were in 911 so was it justified was it worth it... NO.
i dont think we are SAFER, but i think they are less likely to attack, if that makes sense.
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