Then I have two questions for you:
Who elects the president?
Who won the popular vote (of which these polls gauge) in 2000?
In other words, polls don't mean jack ****.
That is all.
Happy that Obama is slipping in the polls?
Then I have two questions for you:
Who elects the president?
Who won the popular vote (of which these polls gauge) in 2000?
In other words, polls don't mean jack ****.
That is all.
actually what i don't understand is the current focus on Hillary supporters... you have to be kidding me that people would jump ship to McCain from Hillary. That is like believing in God and now worshiping SatanDon't make since(lol).
Originally Posted by admin
actually what i don't understand is the current focus on Hillary supporters... you have to be kidding me that people would jump ship to McCain from Hillary. That is like believing in God and now worshiping Satan
We all know why they are jumping ship just thinking about it....
They have a choice between a candidate that have similar views as "their" pick or some on with a different approach, and they choosing the guy with the different approach. WTF?!? That's telling me that they aren't voting for the right reasons now.
i would assume most people don't vote for the right reasons - most mccain supports couldn't tell you his stance on a lot of sh!t nor to they probably remember him trying to jump ship and become a democrat back year 2000's, but the same goes w/ democrats people vote by the party not by the views of the leader a lot of times.
And Obama supporter cant tell you a thing either. I actually follow the race closely so you cant tell me i haven't a clue.
I saw T.I. the other day blaming bush for gas prices going up while at a pro Obama event. Some people just like to blame everything on the president. I guess if my car brakes down it is the presidents fault too.
Oh and Tony: this has been going on for 2 months.
McCain 08!
And Obama supporter cant either. I actually follow the race closely so you cant tell me i haven't a clue.
I saw T.I. the other day blaming bush for gas prices going up. Some people just like to blame everything on the president. I guess if my car brakes down it is the presidents fault too.
Yeah, its the theory that bull**** trickles downstream, lol. Many people look at the President as the one in charge, so of course he should take all the heat, but its not all his fault. Comes with the territory.
The Hilary supporters are leaving mainly b/c of Obama's color, point blank and period. Yes, they did not have similar views on a lot of topics, but I don't see how they justify hopping on McCain's side for that reason alone. I hate to pull the color card, but it is what it is
I guess if my car brakes down it is the presidents fault too.
That is who I blame! If I stub my toe on my couch, it's Bush's fault!!!!
BeFF <beef>
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actually what i don't understand is the current focus on Hillary supporters... you have to be kidding me that people would jump ship to McCain from Hillary. That is like believing in God and now worshiping Satan
because they are ready for a woman to be president.......but not a black man
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I wonder how the election would go if it was on the radio and not broadcast on television?
no doubt
IF OBama was really the "call for change" and "do away with old politics" and so many people hate bush he should be DESTROYING Mccain in this election but he isnt.
Why is that?
1) He preaches change yet has demonstrated time and time again hes just as OLD POLITICS as anyone else
2) He has no substance
3) People are scared of a guy who has ZERO EXPERIENCE
4) Biden was about the WORST person he could have chosen. How can you preach old and tired politics suck then go out an get a 70 year old attatck dog VP running mate that is about as old washington as it gets.
5) I think you are starting to see people are very uncertain about what would happen if Obama got in.
At least with Mcain you KNOW you are going to have a similar 4 years as bush, similar policy, etc. With Obama no one has a CLUE what is going to happen. The future is uncertain, and to the CORE group of voters (lower to upper middle class white voters), they arent hearing what they want to hear.
Obama def can still win, but IMO if he didnt have a 15-20 point lead by now, then hes in trouble, and i think hes in BIG TROUBLE. If people are so tired of Bush and what Bush has been doing, then Obama should be WAY OUT IN FRONT and hes not.
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Mike, I respect your points, but everyone knows that change is the hardest thing to accept. Of course we don't know what is going to "happen" with Obama's said "change". It is a risk that needs to be taken to see the picture. I do agree that is is uncertain. Think, Bush voters are kicking themselves right now because they thought they knew what they were getting. Ha, he showed them!
The CORE groups of voters that you described are not voting for Obama b/c of the color, and you know it. If Obama said what everyone wanted him to say, they still wouldn't vote for him. Majority of this country is not ready for Obama, and it will not be for another 12-16 years. A black person (or person of color) does not belong in the White House in this countries eyes. Hilary voters left the camp as soon as she was not nominated, not because of Obama's views, but color.
I can't find the post, but someone said in an older thread that he is just a black guy that talks well! I mean, ****, no matter what black people do it is still not good enough. I mean, why do you think he was chosen in the first place?
You can say that I am riding the race wall, but it is what it is!
Tell me how McCain is sooo much better? Everything in this country has accepted change, execpt our flakey leadership.
Last edited by AirMax95; 08-26-2008 at 09:40 AM.
How do you explaind the OVERWHELMING support for Colin Powell? If Colin Powell would have run 8 years ago he would have won in a landslide. Polls at the time were 2:1 in favor of him, a BLACK MAN.
The Clintons are some of the most pandering to blacks people on the planet. They jump at every chance to get in the camera to help the less fortunate, but somehow it always seems to be blacks they are helping lol.
Clinton was the biggest African American supporter with his social programs geared toward alot of them, not whites that were in the same areas with the same problems.
and the Democratic party is historically the "Black Party". ALmost every election more than 80% of the black vote goes to Dems, but this year there is MORE BLACK PEOPLE VOTING than ever before.
So i dont buy the Hillary supporters are going to mcain because hes white, sorry.
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So you really want someone to change the best country in the world, but not even give a slight clue as to how he plans on doing it? I honestly dont think I have ever heard a more retarded statement in my life.
I'm a patriot, but I'm also a realist. Conceit and self-proclaiming greatness doesn't exactly equal global dominance. We get that attitude from reading the Bible.
If we are so great...why does it cost twice as much for me to go to England or Scotland?
Why can't we produce our own products with our own workforce?
Why can't we balance natural resources with energy dependence?
How can Hannah f/cking Montana make a dime?
Why is our nation's capital in the most insecure spot on the continent?
Why has rap/R&B/dumb music lasted this long?
True, there are great things about this country and I consider it worth more than my life. But to say we are the best "Just cuz" doesn't make it so. We have some serious problems, and it is my love for this country that motivates me to fight for the progression of freedoms it represents even when it may seem overwhelming or impossible.
This isn't the worst summer I've had around Savannah.
Parris Island '01 - now that was one hell of a summer.
It has nothing to do with global dominance of anything. Nowhere else in the world have a people been as free as in the US. England can legally for a news outlet not to run a damaging or senative story.
as to where? Canada? Mexico? Maybe because of distance.
since when cant we? I knwo we dont, but thats a business decision. It is cheaper for a large corporation to have products made overseas with what amounts to slave labor and shipped to the US than it is to pay US workers and the taxes on top of it. Quantity is the name of the game, not quality.
the tree huggers dont want us to. 1 single nuke powerplant has the capability of replacing two outdated coal or oil plants. The startup is significantly higher for a nuke plant, but day to day expenses are MUCH lower.
[QUOTE=DevilK9]How can Hannah f/cking Montana make a dime?[/quote
cause she has a nice tush
because people will always listen to retarded music. Remember when boy bands were everywhere?
I agree, but we still have far more freedom than 90% of the world, and a little more than the other 10%. It is impossible to balance freedom and security and politics between the parties is only making is worse.
Ok I'm sorry but I have to scratch my head at half of this post cause half of it has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.
Rap/R&B/"dumb muisc" has lasted this long because there is a market for it
Good question on our nation's capital being in an insecure spot but don't count on it being moved ever
Again there is a market for Hannah Montana and what does that half to do with anything?
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
i agree with nearly everything you stated above, i was never really loving the mcain pres. idea but compared to the unknown future we would have with obama that on its own is about enough for me!
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I will have to agree to disagree w/ you on this Mike. I think the biggest difference between the two candidates is McCain plains on staying the course which if you haven't noticed isn't working for US. Our economy is in a sh!t can and a major change is needed quickly before you start to see this super power drop in world market.
Obama though can be said he is inexperience is the embodiment of America. Laugh if you like but I think he is fresh and exciting - I see him as the JFK of our generation. We currently have a president many voted into office 2x w/ tons of experience and he hasn't done jack ****. Obamas wife said it perfect last night, "THIS IS AN ELECTION OF DREAMS NOT FEARS".
I can't imagine what some people are thinking about wanting to endure another 4 years of Bush policy. Unfortunately I do think race is going to play a huge part in the next election. We'll see if minorities make it to the poles to support their canidate b/c we know the christian movement will be voting McCain. You can't expect the OLD and TIRED to vote anything else.
but you do know the reason why our economy sucks is
1) The housing industry and crooked banks over lending (nothing to do with Bush) has tanked the economy. Its affecting every sector almost in the financial districts. Thousands defaulting on loans, banks going out of business, people cant buy homes now cant get loans for anything etc.
2) Oil Prices going up (you can argue its because we are in iraq, but the majority of analysts believe its because of Chinas increased demand)
3) Because of gas prices US Automakers are suffering (as they have been for years) because poeple arent buying SUVs they are going to foreign gas machines (Honda, Toyota, etc)
4) The only think i will blame Bush for is letting a ton of jobs go overseas. That along with illegal immigration is a serious threat to our infrastructure. Think about it jobs are going OVERSEAS leaving here, and the jobs left behind are being given to illegal aliens that dont pay taxes and mooch off our Healthcare system.
Other than that the economy is NOT BUSHs fault.
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all of which are true but 700+ billion dollar war and a lack of white house support hasn't helped us one bit. i think Bush had an excellent opportunity to show why he was voted into office and it seems he has failed his voters and the rest of the country.
Oh yeah, i forgot about that Iraq Thing
Yes it does hurt spending that kind of money ,and i will agree i think it is at a loss to our country.
But i do think that the money was being spent some other way, i cant recall how, i remember seeing a thing on CNN about how people were complaining about the 15Billion a month we spend in Iraq, and someone posted a thing saying how before the war we were spending it on bull**** pork programs for congress .
ill see if i can find it
Again im not saying bush is the best president ever, but i do think Mcain can do a better job than Obama, i think Mcain knows what his role is and that is a 4 year calm **** down and get ready to groom the next president in 2012.
Funny thing is that last week they announced they are close to a withdrawal date for Iraq lol
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GP!!!! Our economy is sucking and he wants to pump more $$$ into the war. He is a president with a personal agenda, not a president of the people. Sure, he gave a stimulus check and is helping the housing market fix a screw up......
Not gonna cut it.
1.) tax cuts for the rich (working class who spend most of their income have largest portion of tax burden)
2.) expensive, un-necassary war
3.) massive foreign debt (to pay for un-necessary war)
4.) de-regulation of energy market causing rampant speculation of fuel prices (all fuels, not just gas)
Im sorry but the Wealthy are what keep the economy going not joe schmoe . The wealthy should get Tax Breaks, to keep them invested in our economy and our infrastructure.
But the middle class get a great deal if they have kids, whats it like $3000 per kid per year now?
Proportionally the Rich have alot of taxes taken out.
My father makes over 300K a year, an last year he paid $82,000 in taxes. Its to the point now that if he gets another raise, its almost not worth it cause he will jump into another tax bracket and even more will be taken out.
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Not trying to turn this into an arguement (which most discussions about politics turn into) but you say we will have a similar 4 years if Mccain was president. What has been so good and impressive that most people could say they wouldn't mind enduring another 4 years of?
excellent post - hopefully you'll get a good answer that has nothing to do w/ obama.
No arguement here, i welcome anyone that wants to participate in a discussion.
Its politics, no one is right and no one is wrong. Its nice just having a good civil debate for once
IMO, whats been so wrong with the last 4 years has been what i posted before.
People complain that the economy and job market sucks, the dollar is weaker etc. IMO it has nothing to do with Bush and everything to do with the Housing market, Corporations pushing jobs overseas, illegal immigration, etc.
But then paul made a good point about how we spend billions a month in Iraq. Which you cannot ignore, it is a big piece of pie.
Although im not one for social programs (within reason) i think we should be focusing on helping small business grow and alternative fuels.
Its pretty commonplace that the Democrats are all for helping the helpless, and the Republicans are for helping small and big business.
Democrats are more socialist IMO and that doesnt sit right with me.
I think the next 4 years will be fine as long as:
1) THe housing crisis ends (which Bush took steps to do so)
2) We get SERIOUS about alternative fuels and drilling
3) The war in Iraq closes in the next 2 years
4) Something is done about illegal immigration
5) Tax cuts to the middle class are fine, but i think the "rich" are fine the way they are now.
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No arguement here, i welcome anyone that wants to participate in a discussion.
Its politics, no one is right and no one is wrong. Its nice just having a good civil debate for once
IMO, whats been so wrong with the last 4 years has been what i posted before.
People complain that the economy and job market sucks, the dollar is weaker etc. IMO it has nothing to do with Bush and everything to do with the Housing market, Corporations pushing jobs overseas, illegal immigration, etc.
But then paul made a good point about how we spend billions a month in Iraq. Which you cannot ignore, it is a big piece of pie.
Although im not one for social programs (within reason) i think we should be focusing on helping small business grow and alternative fuels.
Its pretty commonplace that the Democrats are all for helping the helpless, and the Republicans are for helping small and big business.
Democrats are more socialist IMO and that doesnt sit right with me.
I think the next 4 years will be fine as long as:
1) THe housing crisis ends (which Bush took steps to do so)
2) We get SERIOUS about alternative fuels and drilling
3) The war in Iraq closes in the next 2 years
4) Something is done about illegal immigration
5) Tax cuts to the middle class are fine, but i think the "rich" are fine the way they are now.
I don't think my question was answered in it's entirety; I could have been unclear when I was writing (this is the internet).
You told me what was wrong with the past few years Bush was in office; I was asking what was so great about the years. How did the economy improve, peoples living habits and lifestyles.
Think about 8 years ago, I wasn't that old but I can almost certianly say that people weren't selling life and limb to put food on the table. They had a special on CNN a few weeks ago saying how Ebay, Craigslist and all these other "flea market" websites have had double the traffic and double the sales they've had in the past few years. With alot of people selling family heirlooms that have been in their family for generations. Times are hard and I don't think there's any doubt about that.
Airmax you are entitled to your opinion, im not going to say you are wrong.
But i think Race is not a big a deal as people are making it out to be.
The problem with your statement to me is that people are willing to just say "**** it lets see what happens" with the HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE COUNTRY! I mean we dont let Generals, CEOs of companies, etc have that kind of leeway why should the presidency?
I get it, most people dont like Bush you want something different, thats fine, but dont you want to know what that DIFFERENCE IS? I mean i could stand up an preach that im different than Bush and ill be better, ill make you mjore money, ill end wars, ill stop the energy crisis. Nevermind HOW im going to do it, just know that im GOING to do it.
LOL
To me its a double standard. if Obama DOESNT win it will be because he was black and the racial divide will grow. If he Does win, itll be because people voted for him BECAUSE HES BLACK, not his policies.
IMO its not the white poeple you should be criticizing, rather the vast majority of African Americans who are voting FOR OBAMA simple BECAUSE he is black.
IMO of course
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To me its a double standard. if Obama DOESNT win it will be because he was black and the racial divide will grow. If he Does win, itll be because people voted for him BECAUSE HES BLACK, not his policies.
IMO its not the white poeple you should be criticizing, rather the vast majority of African Americans who are voting FOR OBAMA simple BECAUSE he is black.
IMO of course[/QUOTE]
unfortunatly you are right, its sad to say. win or lose the racial divide will grow with some people because they are to stubbern to except it and will blame the opp. race! i listened to a debate on this on the radio yesterday and one white guy was saying that a record number of black voters will be voting that have never voted b4 and have bumper stickers that have never had them b4. while a black guy was using the arguement that the whites have always been in more powerful postions since the early 1900s and whites are just scared to change that!
to me both of the people seemed racist and were acting like they werent. that it was all the other person. i wish that noone knew what the canidates looked like and then see the election results!
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Completely understood. I followed Obama when he was in Chicago, I see how he worked there. I personally feel that we need a change in that someone who is more down to earth with the poeple of this country, not just the "well to do" and wealthy. It may be hard to grasp, but they guy knows his stuff. He has a record of pulling together a team to work seamlessly for the common good. He has not demonstrated a personal agenda, no record of screwing up, and from 1997 to the present he has progressed quickly in a positive light. I agree that he does not have the experience that McCain has, nor is he older than Ga red clay, but what does do is listen----analyze-----listen----research-----analyze-----decide.
For instance, he was all for pulling out of the war immediately, then he stated a timeline, then that timeline changed. You say filp flop, I say he listened and got more insight and advice. Bottom line, he is willing to listen and not fly off the handle and screw America.
Double standard, I COMPLETELY AGREE! I criticize BOTH, but in constructive manner. I know that many african americans are voting for him b/c he is black, just like many whites are not viting for him b/c he is black. I was responding to the post, not just slamming whites. No one should be let off the hook for voting on someones color.
....and RACE plays a big part, VERY BIG!!!
Funny thing is i agree with you, i really dont think a 70 year old white guy represents ME.
Kinda why i hate our political system cause at the end of the day, it really doesnt matter WHAT they say.
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Mike we agree on a lot of stuff, lol.
Old people are cool, but they get really stubborn after 60
well this throws out Obama/Biden then. Remember when he said that middle class Americans were bitter and clinging to their guns and religion?
Organizing a church is alot different than a country. Also I am from the southside of Chicago, and Obama didnt make a whole lot of changes for the better around my parts. (lived on 71st and State for about 5 months before I left for the Corps)
Actually he has demonstrated a lack of judgement, a quick temper, and the inability to judge character (how many times have we heard "This is not the ______ I knew"?)
what exactly has he done from 97 to present?
actually his history has shown that he votes "present". He has also shown he has no opinion on controversial subjects. Abortion comes to mind first and his sidestep of the question at Saddleback.
I agree with you here. I see this in much the same light a McCain voting against the Bush tax cuts, then after he saw it working, he voted for re-upping them.
I am willing to bet the life savings that the number of blacks voting for him because he is black doubles the number of whites voting for McCain because Obama is black. The only people mentioning race in this election are the media and Obama. Not a single republican has made the slightest comment about him being black outside of a retort to one of his comments.
The only ones mentioning race are from Obama's campaign.
Also ill say i think its extremely poor and sad that in this day in age, BOTH SIDES, white and black, have or are going to make this a race issue.
I could care less that Obama is black, i just dont like him as a candidate.
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touche
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I will agree alot of the Clinton supporters are Femi-Nazis
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Im kinda mixed on IRAQ. At the time, it was a good idea imo and this is why.
We were coming off 9/11 the biggest terror attack in history on US Soil. Now, that was a wake up call that the Clinton Era failed to secure our borders and failed to stop the posing threat of terrorism.
We get attacked and now we start panicking looking for "who is going to be next".
We settle on Iraq. Here is a country in a region that is plagued with people that are very outspoken about our destruction and israels destruction. This is a region that lets face it represents the majority of the people that attacked us on 9/11.
Iran was too powerfull for us to go after, not without the possibility of a nuclear war, Afghanistan is a country of nothing but guerillas, we werent going to go after the saudis, etc.
So enter IRAQ, a country we were just 10-12 years past a war. A country that DEFIED the UN for 12 years, a country that had a horrible dictator that committed mass genocide an ethnic cleansing.
A country that was not a REAL thread, but a threat none the less. We didnt have to worry about IRAQ coming after us, we had to worry about IRAQ helping , training, funding other people in the region, like Iran. Or providing safe haven for Bin Laden, Taliban, other terrorists etc.
The WMD were never found, but there was CREDIBLE intelligience to suggest there were some there at one time, and that they were moved long before we got there. There was also nerve gas and other chemical agents found in Iraq, just no Nukes.
I think AT THE TIME, we were in a "stop terrorism before it happens" mode and Iraq provided
1) A country we could really take over and change
2) A country that was due for its ass to get kicked
3) A country that was closest to providing a DEMOCRATIC Society in the region that with hopes would spread to other nations eventually.
4) Could prove to be a valuable ally in the future
Unfortunetly i think they misunderstood the insurgents and guerilla warfare aspect and thats where we are now. But the surge is working, there is ALOT less violence now, and it seems the country will be on its own in the next 2-5 years. Question is, will it stay democratic? or will this all be for nothing. We DONT KNOW YET.
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you do know that Osama bin laden started hating america when the first Bush put troops on saudia arabia soil, He warned the U.S. not to do it. Before that during the regan adminstration we were financing Bin laden group of freedom fighters that we now call terriosts. Bush should have known not to cross bin laden, just b/c bin laden group was able to fight off the Soviets for so long.
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