Happy that Obama is slipping in the polls?

[Vteckidd]

IF OBama was really the "call for change" and "do away with old politics" and so many people hate bush he should be DESTROYING Mccain in this election but he isnt.

Why is that?

1) He preaches change yet has demonstrated time and time again hes just as OLD POLITICS as anyone else

2) He has no substance

3) People are scared of a guy who has ZERO EXPERIENCE

4) Biden was about the WORST person he could have chosen. How can you preach old and tired politics suck then go out an get a 70 year old attatck dog VP running mate that is about as old washington as it gets.

5) I think you are starting to see people are very uncertain about what would happen if Obama got in.

At least with Mcain you KNOW you are going to have a similar 4 years as bush, similar policy, etc. With Obama no one has a CLUE what is going to happen. The future is uncertain, and to the CORE group of voters (lower to upper middle class white voters), they arent hearing what they want to hear.

Obama def can still win, but IMO if he didnt have a 15-20 point lead by now, then hes in trouble, and i think hes in BIG TROUBLE. If people are so tired of Bush and what Bush has been doing, then Obama should be WAY OUT IN FRONT and hes not.

[AirMax95]

IF OBama was really the "call for change" and "do away with old politics" and so many people hate bush he should be DESTROYING Mccain in this election but he isnt.

Why is that?

1) He preaches change yet has demonstrated time and time again hes just as OLD POLITICS as anyone else

2) He has no substance

3) People are scared of a guy who has ZERO EXPERIENCE

4) Biden was about the WORST person he could have chosen. How can you preach old and tired politics suck then go out an get a 70 year old attatck dog VP running mate that is about as old washington as it gets.

5) I think you are starting to see people are very uncertain about what would happen if Obama got in.

At least with Mcain you KNOW you are going to have a similar 4 years as bush, similar policy, etc. With Obama no one has a CLUE what is going to happen. The future is uncertain, and to the CORE group of voters (lower to upper middle class white voters), they arent hearing what they want to hear.

Obama def can still win, but IMO if he didnt have a 15-20 point lead by now, then hes in trouble, and i think hes in BIG TROUBLE. If people are so tired of Bush and what Bush has been doing, then Obama should be WAY OUT IN FRONT and hes not.

Mike, I respect your points, but everyone knows that change is the hardest thing to accept. Of course we don't know what is going to "happen" with Obama's said "change". It is a risk that needs to be taken to see the picture. I do agree that is is uncertain. Think, Bush voters are kicking themselves right now because they thought they knew what they were getting. Ha, he showed them!

The CORE groups of voters that you described are not voting for Obama b/c of the color, and you know it. If Obama said what everyone wanted him to say, they still wouldn't vote for him. Majority of this country is not ready for Obama, and it will not be for another 12-16 years. A black person (or person of color) does not belong in the White House in this countries eyes. Hilary voters left the camp as soon as she was not nominated, not because of Obama's views, but color.

I can't find the post, but someone said in an older thread that he is just a black guy that talks well! I mean, ****, no matter what black people do it is still not good enough. I mean, why do you think he was chosen in the first place?

You can say that I am riding the race wall, but it is what it is!

Tell me how McCain is sooo much better? Everything in this country has accepted change, execpt our flakey leadership.

[Vteckidd]

A black person (or person of color) does not belong in the White House in this countries eyes. Hilary voters left the camp as soon as she was not nominated, not because of Obama's views, but color.

How do you explaind the OVERWHELMING support for Colin Powell? If Colin Powell would have run 8 years ago he would have won in a landslide. Polls at the time were 2:1 in favor of him, a BLACK MAN.

The Clintons are some of the most pandering to blacks people on the planet. They jump at every chance to get in the camera to help the less fortunate, but somehow it always seems to be blacks they are helping lol.

Clinton was the biggest African American supporter with his social programs geared toward alot of them, not whites that were in the same areas with the same problems.

and the Democratic party is historically the "Black Party". ALmost every election more than 80% of the black vote goes to Dems, but this year there is MORE BLACK PEOPLE VOTING than ever before.

So i dont buy the Hillary supporters are going to mcain because hes white, sorry.

[BanginJimmy]

Mike, I respect your points, but everyone knows that change is the hardest thing to accept. Of course we don't know what is going to "happen" with Obama's said "change". It is a risk that needs to be taken to see the picture. I do agree that is is uncertain.

So you really want someone to change the best country in the world, but not even give a slight clue as to how he plans on doing it? I honestly dont think I have ever heard a more retarded statement in my life.

[DevilK9]

the best country in the world,

I'm a patriot, but I'm also a realist. Conceit and self-proclaiming greatness doesn't exactly equal global dominance. We get that attitude from reading the Bible.

If we are so great...why does it cost twice as much for me to go to England or Scotland?

Why can't we produce our own products with our own workforce?

Why can't we balance natural resources with energy dependence?

How can Hannah f/cking Montana make a dime?

Why is our nation's capital in the most insecure spot on the continent?

Why has rap/R&B/dumb music lasted this long?

True, there are great things about this country and I consider it worth more than my life. But to say we are the best "Just cuz" doesn't make it so. We have some serious problems, and it is my love for this country that motivates me to fight for the progression of freedoms it represents even when it may seem overwhelming or impossible.

[BanginJimmy]

I'm a patriot, but I'm also a realist. Conceit and self-proclaiming greatness doesn't exactly equal global dominance. We get that attitude from reading the Bible.

It has nothing to do with global dominance of anything. Nowhere else in the world have a people been as free as in the US. England can legally for a news outlet not to run a damaging or senative story.

If we are so great...why does it cost twice as much for me to go to England or Scotland?

as to where? Canada? Mexico? Maybe because of distance.

Why can't we produce our own products with our own workforce?

since when cant we? I knwo we dont, but thats a business decision. It is cheaper for a large corporation to have products made overseas with what amounts to slave labor and shipped to the US than it is to pay US workers and the taxes on top of it. Quantity is the name of the game, not quality.

Why can't we balance natural resources with energy dependence?

the tree huggers dont want us to. 1 single nuke powerplant has the capability of replacing two outdated coal or oil plants. The startup is significantly higher for a nuke plant, but day to day expenses are MUCH lower.

[QUOTE=DevilK9]How can Hannah f/cking Montana make a dime?[/quote

cause she has a nice tush

Why has rap/R&B/dumb music lasted this long?

because people will always listen to retarded music. Remember when boy bands were everywhere?

True, there are great things about this country and I consider it worth more than my life. But to say we are the best "Just cuz" doesn't make it so. We have some serious problems, and it is my love for this country that motivates me to fight for the progression of freedoms it represents even when it may seem overwhelming or impossible.

I agree, but we still have far more freedom than 90% of the world, and a little more than the other 10%. It is impossible to balance freedom and security and politics between the parties is only making is worse.

[Alan®]

I'm a patriot, but I'm also a realist. Conceit and self-proclaiming greatness doesn't exactly equal global dominance. We get that attitude from reading the Bible.

If we are so great...why does it cost twice as much for me to go to England or Scotland?

Why can't we produce our own products with our own workforce?

Why can't we balance natural resources with energy dependence?

How can Hannah f/cking Montana make a dime?

Why is our nation's capital in the most insecure spot on the continent?

Why has rap/R&B/dumb music lasted this long?

True, there are great things about this country and I consider it worth more than my life. But to say we are the best "Just cuz" doesn't make it so. We have some serious problems, and it is my love for this country that motivates me to fight for the progression of freedoms it represents even when it may seem overwhelming or impossible.

Ok I'm sorry but I have to scratch my head at half of this post cause half of it has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

Rap/R&B/"dumb muisc" has lasted this long because there is a market for it

Good question on our nation's capital being in an insecure spot but don't count on it being moved ever

Again there is a market for Hannah Montana and what does that half to do with anything?

[onebadgt]

IF OBama was really the "call for change" and "do away with old politics" and so many people hate bush he should be DESTROYING Mccain in this election but he isnt.

Why is that?

1) He preaches change yet has demonstrated time and time again hes just as OLD POLITICS as anyone else

2) He has no substance

3) People are scared of a guy who has ZERO EXPERIENCE

4) Biden was about the WORST person he could have chosen. How can you preach old and tired politics suck then go out an get a 70 year old attatck dog VP running mate that is about as old washington as it gets.

5) I think you are starting to see people are very uncertain about what would happen if Obama got in.

At least with Mcain you KNOW you are going to have a similar 4 years as bush, similar policy, etc. With Obama no one has a CLUE what is going to happen. The future is uncertain, and to the CORE group of voters (lower to upper middle class white voters), they arent hearing what they want to hear.

Obama def can still win, but IMO if he didnt have a 15-20 point lead by now, then hes in trouble, and i think hes in BIG TROUBLE. If people are so tired of Bush and what Bush has been doing, then Obama should be WAY OUT IN FRONT and hes not.

i agree with nearly everything you stated above, i was never really loving the mcain pres. idea but compared to the unknown future we would have with obama that on its own is about enough for me!

[4dmin]

IF OBama was really the "call for change" and "do away with old politics" and so many people hate bush he should be DESTROYING Mccain in this election but he isnt.

Why is that?

1) He preaches change yet has demonstrated time and time again hes just as OLD POLITICS as anyone else

2) He has no substance

3) People are scared of a guy who has ZERO EXPERIENCE

4) Biden was about the WORST person he could have chosen. How can you preach old and tired politics suck then go out an get a 70 year old attatck dog VP running mate that is about as old washington as it gets.

5) I think you are starting to see people are very uncertain about what would happen if Obama got in.

At least with Mcain you KNOW you are going to have a similar 4 years as bush, similar policy, etc. With Obama no one has a CLUE what is going to happen. The future is uncertain, and to the CORE group of voters (lower to upper middle class white voters), they arent hearing what they want to hear.

Obama def can still win, but IMO if he didnt have a 15-20 point lead by now, then hes in trouble, and i think hes in BIG TROUBLE. If people are so tired of Bush and what Bush has been doing, then Obama should be WAY OUT IN FRONT and hes not.

I will have to agree to disagree w/ you on this Mike. I think the biggest difference between the two candidates is McCain plains on staying the course which if you haven't noticed isn't working for US. Our economy is in a sh!t can and a major change is needed quickly before you start to see this super power drop in world market.

Obama though can be said he is inexperience is the embodiment of America. Laugh if you like but I think he is fresh and exciting - I see him as the JFK of our generation. We currently have a president many voted into office 2x w/ tons of experience and he hasn't done jack ****. Obamas wife said it perfect last night, "THIS IS AN ELECTION OF DREAMS NOT FEARS".

I can't imagine what some people are thinking about wanting to endure another 4 years of Bush policy. Unfortunately I do think race is going to play a huge part in the next election. We'll see if minorities make it to the poles to support their canidate b/c we know the christian movement will be voting McCain. You can't expect the OLD and TIRED to vote anything else.

[Vteckidd]

but you do know the reason why our economy sucks is

1) The housing industry and crooked banks over lending (nothing to do with Bush) has tanked the economy. Its affecting every sector almost in the financial districts. Thousands defaulting on loans, banks going out of business, people cant buy homes now cant get loans for anything etc.

2) Oil Prices going up (you can argue its because we are in iraq, but the majority of analysts believe its because of Chinas increased demand)

3) Because of gas prices US Automakers are suffering (as they have been for years) because poeple arent buying SUVs they are going to foreign gas machines (Honda, Toyota, etc)

4) The only think i will blame Bush for is letting a ton of jobs go overseas. That along with illegal immigration is a serious threat to our infrastructure. Think about it jobs are going OVERSEAS leaving here, and the jobs left behind are being given to illegal aliens that dont pay taxes and mooch off our Healthcare system.

Other than that the economy is NOT BUSHs fault.

[4dmin]

but you do know the reason why our economy sucks is

1) The housing industry and crooked banks over lending (nothing to do with Bush) has tanked the economy. Its affecting every sector almost in the financial districts. Thousands defaulting on loans, banks going out of business, people cant buy homes now cant get loans for anything etc.

2) Oil Prices going up (you can argue its because we are in iraq, but the majority of analysts believe its because of Chinas increased demand)

3) Because of gas prices US Automakers are suffering (as they have been for years) because poeple arent buying SUVs they are going to foreign gas machines (Honda, Toyota, etc)

4) The only think i will blame Bush for is letting a ton of jobs go overseas. That along with illegal immigration is a serious threat to our infrastructure. Think about it jobs are going OVERSEAS leaving here, and the jobs left behind are being given to illegal aliens that dont pay taxes and mooch off our Healthcare system.

Other than that the economy is NOT BUSHs fault.

all of which are true but 700+ billion dollar war and a lack of white house support hasn't helped us one bit. i think Bush had an excellent opportunity to show why he was voted into office and it seems he has failed his voters and the rest of the country.

[Vteckidd]

all of which are true but 700+ billion dollar war and a lack of white house support hasn't helped us one bit. i think Bush had an excellent opportunity to show why he was voted into office and it seems he has failed his voters and the rest of the country.

Oh yeah, i forgot about that Iraq Thing

Yes it does hurt spending that kind of money ,and i will agree i think it is at a loss to our country.

But i do think that the money was being spent some other way, i cant recall how, i remember seeing a thing on CNN about how people were complaining about the 15Billion a month we spend in Iraq, and someone posted a thing saying how before the war we were spending it on bull**** pork programs for congress .

ill see if i can find it

Again im not saying bush is the best president ever, but i do think Mcain can do a better job than Obama, i think Mcain knows what his role is and that is a 4 year calm **** down and get ready to groom the next president in 2012.

Funny thing is that last week they announced they are close to a withdrawal date for Iraq lol

[AirMax95]

all of which are true but 700+ billion dollar war and a lack of white house support hasn't helped us one bit. i think Bush had an excellent opportunity to show why he was voted into office and it seems he has failed his voters and the rest of the country.

GP!!!! Our economy is sucking and he wants to pump more $$$ into the war. He is a president with a personal agenda, not a president of the people. Sure, he gave a stimulus check and is helping the housing market fix a screw up......

Not gonna cut it.

[Total_Blender]

Other than that the economy is NOT BUSHs fault.

1.) tax cuts for the rich (working class who spend most of their income have largest portion of tax burden)

2.) expensive, un-necassary war

3.) massive foreign debt (to pay for un-necessary war)

4.) de-regulation of energy market causing rampant speculation of fuel prices (all fuels, not just gas)

[Vteckidd]

1.) tax cuts for the rich (working class who spend most of their income have largest portion of tax burden)

Im sorry but the Wealthy are what keep the economy going not joe schmoe . The wealthy should get Tax Breaks, to keep them invested in our economy and our infrastructure.

But the middle class get a great deal if they have kids, whats it like $3000 per kid per year now?

Proportionally the Rich have alot of taxes taken out.

My father makes over 300K a year, an last year he paid $82,000 in taxes. Its to the point now that if he gets another raise, its almost not worth it cause he will jump into another tax bracket and even more will be taken out.

[4dmin]

Im sorry but the Wealthy are what keep the economy going not joe schmoe . The wealthy should get Tax Breaks, to keep them invested in our economy and our infrastructure.

But the middle class get a great deal if they have kids, whats it like $3000 per kid per year now?

Proportionally the Rich have alot of taxes taken out.

My father makes over 300K a year, an last year he paid $82,000 in taxes. Its to the point now that if he gets another raise, its almost not worth it cause he will jump into another tax bracket and even more will be taken out.

but your father is pushing up into the top 5% bracket which makes over 250k which pays the most taxes b/c they make the most, but again they are tons of tax breaks once you are up into that market. how many CEO drive FREE cars or live in FREE houses due to corp America tax system? so in the end the guy making 1 mil a year isn't having to live off of 1 mil salary more like 1/2 that.

no look at the majority of America who is making well under 100k why would they care about a guy making 300k which is almost 8x national family income. it will always come back to misuse of tax dollars. do you know how much healthcare, food, energy, 700+ billion dollars buys? with the money spent on the war we could of not had 1 person in the US go hungry or w/o heat.

[EJ25RUN]

i like how people keep calling it an unnecessary war.

[Alan®]

Im sorry but the Wealthy are what keep the economy going not joe schmoe . The wealthy should get Tax Breaks, to keep them invested in our economy and our infrastructure.

But the middle class get a great deal if they have kids, whats it like $3000 per kid per year now?

Proportionally the Rich have alot of taxes taken out.

My father makes over 300K a year, an last year he paid $82,000 in taxes. Its to the point now that if he gets another raise, its almost not worth it cause he will jump into another tax bracket and even more will be taken out.

Thank you lord I'm so glad someone finally see's what I have been talking about all along. Reps to you my good sir.

[tony]

Thank you lord I'm so glad someone finally see's what I have been talking about all along. Reps to you my good sir.

If the economy can't run without the rich but the rich get wealthy on the back of Joe Schmoe who really has control?

Trust me.. nobody gets wealthy on their own in this country. Please don't act like the wealthy are the lifeline to the economy because this nation would surely survive with a strong middle class.. it cannot thrive on a few rich people.

[EG6]

At least with Mcain you KNOW you are going to have a similar 4 years as bush, similar policy, etc. With Obama no one has a CLUE what is going to happen. The future is uncertain, and to the CORE group of voters (lower to upper middle class white voters), they arent hearing what they want to hear.

Not trying to turn this into an arguement (which most discussions about politics turn into) but you say we will have a similar 4 years if Mccain was president. What has been so good and impressive that most people could say they wouldn't mind enduring another 4 years of?

[4dmin]

Not trying to turn this into an arguement (which most discussions about politics turn into) but you say we will have a similar 4 years if Mccain was president. What has been so good and impressive that most people could say they wouldn't mind enduring another 4 years of?

excellent post - hopefully you'll get a good answer that has nothing to do w/ obama.

[Vteckidd]

Not trying to turn this into an arguement (which most discussions about politics turn into) but you say we will have a similar 4 years if Mccain was president. What has been so good and impressive that most people could say they wouldn't mind enduring another 4 years of?

No arguement here, i welcome anyone that wants to participate in a discussion.

Its politics, no one is right and no one is wrong. Its nice just having a good civil debate for once

IMO, whats been so wrong with the last 4 years has been what i posted before.

People complain that the economy and job market sucks, the dollar is weaker etc. IMO it has nothing to do with Bush and everything to do with the Housing market, Corporations pushing jobs overseas, illegal immigration, etc.

But then paul made a good point about how we spend billions a month in Iraq. Which you cannot ignore, it is a big piece of pie.

Although im not one for social programs (within reason) i think we should be focusing on helping small business grow and alternative fuels.

Its pretty commonplace that the Democrats are all for helping the helpless, and the Republicans are for helping small and big business.

Democrats are more socialist IMO and that doesnt sit right with me.

I think the next 4 years will be fine as long as:
1) THe housing crisis ends (which Bush took steps to do so)

2) We get SERIOUS about alternative fuels and drilling

3) The war in Iraq closes in the next 2 years

4) Something is done about illegal immigration

5) Tax cuts to the middle class are fine, but i think the "rich" are fine the way they are now.

[EG6]

No arguement here, i welcome anyone that wants to participate in a discussion.

Its politics, no one is right and no one is wrong. Its nice just having a good civil debate for once

IMO, whats been so wrong with the last 4 years has been what i posted before.

People complain that the economy and job market sucks, the dollar is weaker etc. IMO it has nothing to do with Bush and everything to do with the Housing market, Corporations pushing jobs overseas, illegal immigration, etc.

But then paul made a good point about how we spend billions a month in Iraq. Which you cannot ignore, it is a big piece of pie.

Although im not one for social programs (within reason) i think we should be focusing on helping small business grow and alternative fuels.

Its pretty commonplace that the Democrats are all for helping the helpless, and the Republicans are for helping small and big business.

Democrats are more socialist IMO and that doesnt sit right with me.

I think the next 4 years will be fine as long as:
1) THe housing crisis ends (which Bush took steps to do so)

2) We get SERIOUS about alternative fuels and drilling

3) The war in Iraq closes in the next 2 years

4) Something is done about illegal immigration

5) Tax cuts to the middle class are fine, but i think the "rich" are fine the way they are now.

I don't think my question was answered in it's entirety; I could have been unclear when I was writing (this is the internet).

You told me what was wrong with the past few years Bush was in office; I was asking what was so great about the years. How did the economy improve, peoples living habits and lifestyles.

Think about 8 years ago, I wasn't that old but I can almost certianly say that people weren't selling life and limb to put food on the table. They had a special on CNN a few weeks ago saying how Ebay, Craigslist and all these other "flea market" websites have had double the traffic and double the sales they've had in the past few years. With alot of people selling family heirlooms that have been in their family for generations. Times are hard and I don't think there's any doubt about that.