Happy that Obama is slipping in the polls?

[tony]

To anyone here arguing against Communism here, was Karl Marx's theory completely useless?

[Alan®]

See bolded, safety is all well and good when it is LEGAL. Sorry, don't care to be wiretapped in the name of safety. What other rights are you willing to give up in the name of safety?

See the problem with what you said is that the key word with that phrase is unreasonable. In a time when we have no clear picture as to what the enemy looks like, I have no problem with them listening in on my phone calls.

[tony]

See the problem with what you said is that the key word with that phrase is unreasonable. In a time when we have no clear picture as to what the enemy looks like, I have no problem with them listening in on my phone calls.

I don't see how you can make that statement and condemn Communism in the next post. What you've explained here is exactly what we are talking about, giving up your rights to the government.

[EJ25RUN]

To anyone here arguing against Communism here, was Karl Marx's theory completely useless?

Wow...so your saying we should grab ideals for communism......Chinas on the other side of the world if you are that tired living over here. I say rule communism out totally. In a way that's why i believe in the fair tax. Sharing wealth is like communism to me.

[Alan®]

I don't see how you can make that statement and condemn Communism in the next post. What you've explained here is exactly what we are talking about, giving up your rights to the government.

I really see no difference between this and allowing concealed guns in public places(which I also support). Do you honestly think you would ever know if the government was listening to your call? Chances are 1.) You wouldn't and 2.) They aren't. So long as they are not intruding on my life, I really don't care.

[blaknoize]

Well I SURE dont like the government tinkering in my business regardless. Whether its "bothering" me or not. It shouldnt even be considered. In my privacy because u WANT TO BE, just incase. BS!!

[stephen]

Wow...so your saying we should grab ideals for communism......Chinas on the other side of the world if you are that tired living over here. I say rule communism out totally. In a way that's why i believe in the fair tax. Sharing wealth is like communism to me.

i'm going to go out on a limb and try to give tony a little help on this. i don't think it's all about "steal from the rich, and give to the poor." the issues with the "rich" and their taxes, has a lot to do with what it takes to stay rich. when it comes down to it...the wealthier you get, the more of an asset you are to our government. our government views success, power, and wealth waaaaaay differntly than the common man. the way of the government is "dog eat dog," point blank. a perfect example is all that stuff Delta went through. my mother went from making over $100k a year, to $65k in a matter of months. she had the opportunity to take a severence package, that would've been IMPOSSIBLE to live off of, and yet there were high up executives being offered packages of more money than they were making...in the millions! lol, here you have a company that filed bankrupt, cut down their employees salary by 30-40% in some cases, and yet...you still have executives that're able to walk away with millions in their pockets? these same executives were able to maintain their company's success for so long, due to hard working people like my mom. lol, and now those same people want a tax break!?! now you have someone who has a family to maintain, and who has to dip into their retirement money just to make ends meet. sh.i.t, there's a dude who works at the publix up the street from me...he's in his 60s, RETIRED from some other job, and still has to work a part time gig at a grocery store just to survive.

it's situations like that, that make people want to tax the hell out of rich folks, and spare the more abundant middle class people (who work hard for some of the rich people)....goes back to the "dog eat dog" mentality. personally, i feel like income taxes are illegal ANYWAY. being forced to give money to the government because you worked for it...while you're still giving money to them when you buy goods, just seems unfair TO EVERYONE. i understand it helps to sustain the nation's economy, but it still just sounds so wrong. i don't think it matters who the government taxes (rich or middle class), it's still the people's money, and should to help better us...not some other country's people, or like mccain said "$3million to fund bear DNA research." lol, that's probably the only thing he's said, that i like!

[Vteckidd]

if you have nothing to hide then wiretapping is a non issue IMO.

If it helps stop terrorism, then im all for it.

Personally, i dont see Big Brother wire tapping and going adter people for the wrong reasons. Seems like its done a lot of good rather than bad.

IMO

[BB6dohcvtec]

if you have nothing to hide then wiretapping is a non issue IMO.

If it helps stop terrorism, then im all for it.

Personally, i dont see Big Brother wire tapping and going adter people for the wrong reasons. Seems like its done a lot of good rather than bad.

IMO

yea and it also leads to alot of false accusations/arrest....once proven turns into lawsuit costing the gov't oh i mean us alot of money. i'm all for wiretapping but make sure before making premature accusations, which we don't do.

[EJ25RUN]

i'm going to go out on a limb and try to give tony a little help on this. i don't think it's all about "steal from the rich, and give to the poor." the issues with the "rich" and their taxes, has a lot to do with what it takes to stay rich. when it comes down to it...the wealthier you get, the more of an asset you are to our government. our government views success, power, and wealth waaaaaay differntly than the common man. the way of the government is "dog eat dog," point blank. a perfect example is all that stuff Delta went through. my mother went from making over $100k a year, to $65k in a matter of months. she had the opportunity to take a severence package, that would've been IMPOSSIBLE to live off of, and yet there were high up executives being offered packages of more money than they were making...in the millions! lol, here you have a company that filed bankrupt, cut down their employees salary by 30-40% in some cases, and yet...you still have executives that're able to walk away with millions in their pockets? these same executives were able to maintain their company's success for so long, due to hard working people like my mom. lol, and now those same people want a tax break!?! now you have someone who has a family to maintain, and who has to dip into their retirement money just to make ends meet. sh.i.t, there's a dude who works at the publix up the street from me...he's in his 60s, RETIRED from some other job, and still has to work a part time gig at a grocery store just to survive.

it's situations like that, that make people want to tax the hell out of rich folks, and spare the more abundant middle class people (who work hard for some of the rich people)....goes back to the "dog eat dog" mentality. personally, i feel like income taxes are illegal ANYWAY. being forced to give money to the government because you worked for it...while you're still giving money to them when you buy goods, just seems unfair TO EVERYONE. i understand it helps to sustain the nation's economy, but it still just sounds so wrong. i don't think it matters who the government taxes (rich or middle class), it's still the people's money, and should to help better us...not some other country's people, or like mccain said "$3million to fund bear DNA research." lol, that's probably the only thing he's said, that i like!

What did your mother due at delta if you don't mind?

I ask because i plan to attend a Delta sponsored school withing the next year.

[BanginJimmy]

The Hilary supporters are leaving mainly b/c of Obama's color, point blank and period. Yes, they did not have similar views on a lot of topics, but I don't see how they justify hopping on McCain's side for that reason alone. I hate to pull the color card, but it is what it is

And this is why Obama is turning white voters away. He was very quick to drop the race card and its backfiring on him. If Obama never mentions race again he has a chance, if he keeps spouting it off then he doesnt have a prayer.

[BanginJimmy]

Mike, I respect your points, but everyone knows that change is the hardest thing to accept. Of course we don't know what is going to "happen" with Obama's said "change". It is a risk that needs to be taken to see the picture. I do agree that is is uncertain.

So you really want someone to change the best country in the world, but not even give a slight clue as to how he plans on doing it? I honestly dont think I have ever heard a more retarded statement in my life.

[BanginJimmy]

Completely understood. I followed Obama when he was in Chicago, I see how he worked there. I personally feel that we need a change in that someone who is more down to earth with the poeple of this country, not just the "well to do" and wealthy.

well this throws out Obama/Biden then. Remember when he said that middle class Americans were bitter and clinging to their guns and religion?

It may be hard to grasp, but they guy knows his stuff. He has a record of pulling together a team to work seamlessly for the common good.

Organizing a church is alot different than a country. Also I am from the southside of Chicago, and Obama didnt make a whole lot of changes for the better around my parts. (lived on 71st and State for about 5 months before I left for the Corps)

He has not demonstrated a personal agenda, no record of screwing up,

Actually he has demonstrated a lack of judgement, a quick temper, and the inability to judge character (how many times have we heard "This is not the ______ I knew"?)

and from 1997 to the present he has progressed quickly in a positive light.

what exactly has he done from 97 to present?

but what does do is listen----analyze-----listen----research-----analyze-----decide.

actually his history has shown that he votes "present". He has also shown he has no opinion on controversial subjects. Abortion comes to mind first and his sidestep of the question at Saddleback.

For instance, he was all for pulling out of the war immediately, then he stated a timeline, then that timeline changed. You say filp flop, I say he listened and got more insight and advice.

I agree with you here. I see this in much the same light a McCain voting against the Bush tax cuts, then after he saw it working, he voted for re-upping them.

know that many african americans are voting for him b/c he is black, just like many whites are not viting for him b/c he is black.

I am willing to bet the life savings that the number of blacks voting for him because he is black doubles the number of whites voting for McCain because Obama is black. The only people mentioning race in this election are the media and Obama. Not a single republican has made the slightest comment about him being black outside of a retort to one of his comments.

....and RACE plays a big part, VERY BIG!!!

The only ones mentioning race are from Obama's campaign.

[DevilK9]

Wow, this has been an interesting read. I have to say, seeing both sides of many issues is rather enlightening. However...

1) Yes, the President will not change anything by himself. Remember that you are not electing a president, you are electing his cabinet and his colleagues. Follow the money.

2) Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So please...please...please...for heaven's f/cking sake....please...quit trying to give this useless war any indirect meaning through such an equally horrific event. We had no business going in. We did. We were wrong. Let's fix our mistake . . .and get the F?CK OUT!

3) The wealthy aren't wealthy because they're the ones who spend the most money. They're wealthy because they're the ones who have figured out how to spend the money of less wealthy people to make themselves some money. It takes money to make money...not necessarily yours. So debate your concerns over tax reform on a more universally accepted foundation....you are what you eat.

4) 9/11 was not the fault of a Clintonian era of politics. 9/11 was the fault of Islamic extremists who considered their faulted doctrine more important than human life, international peace, or ethical superiority. The war in Iraq has not made us safer, nor has it postponed a terrorist act. The two are unrelated. The phrase, "It must be working because we haven't been attacked since 9/11" is absolutely ignorant. That's just like saying. "I must be a good driver because I haven't been in a wreck since my last one." It is simply stating a period of no incident, not the assurance of no future calamity. They're marketing themselves and their plan for this country to all of us, and damnit we keep drinking the f&cking koolaid.

5) I don't fully agree with Communism, but to say that it's original foundations (not those currently practiced in places like Cuba and China) have no validity is ignorant. For instance, we've all used and heard the phrase - a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. We believe it, we live by it, and we accept it (most likely). Guess where that phrase came from? Oh sh/t!

6) When I negotiate contracts, the plan is simple. I have an agenda that I want to pay as little as I can to achieve. I can not achieve that myself. So....I have to get the other party to give up as much of their needs, desires, and/or rights in order for me to attain my goals. So....wiretapping. They want to spy on ????? and the only way they can get that is to convince us to ALLOW THEM to tap our phones. What do they tell us to convince us this is a good idea? "It'll make you safer, trust us". OK!!! GO AHEAD!!! Like brainless, f/cking idiots we go along with it. Never mind that we're giving up our core rights and national identity. What's next, mandatory housing of troops? You laugh!?!?

7) The only way either candidate isn't going to win, is if they don't get enough votes, or they can't get Congress to overturn the decision of the election to match both the electoral and popular votes. Plain and simple. Skin pigmentation won't be to blame. If black voters want to vote Obama when they go to the polls because he's black, then hell, this is America, that's their damn prerogative and right. If senile, wrinkly white folks want to go into their booths and vote for McCain because they can relate with his bladder control problems...then hell, this is America, that's their damn prerogative and right. Why does anybody care or wonder why other people vote the way they do. The answer is simple - CUZ THEY WANTED TO! That's all you need know.

8) No - the billions spent on the IRAQ war was not pulled from Congressional spending. It is new money borrowed from some pretty dark areas of the world. That story was a 2006 Talking Point on Bill O'Reilly that got completed torn to shreds by his own network. Oh snap!

9) Yes - the war in Afghanistan was a good idea. It has since become bullsh/t. I served there an it turned into a 95/5 situation. 5% searching for Al-Qaieda and Bin Laden, 95% setting up a country to our specifications. That's not cool, but I'd rather support that than a blind invasion of a sovereign country on lies, deceit and borrowed money.

10) I have no problem with the de-regulation of the energy market. Do you buy their products? Do you like the price? If no, then why do you buy their products? Do you not like it enough to boycott? If no,then why would they lower prices if you're willing to pay for it? Same as any other industry. If PopRocks went to 8 dollars a bag, your fagg0t boyfriend you meet in room 312 every Thursday afternoon would probably think twice before adding that to his Jlow Bob ritual. Wouldn't he? Yep!

11) The election to me is the same simple question it was in 2004. "Would I rather be disemboweled with a wire brush or have my genitals massaged for an hour with a chainsaw?" Both options kinda suck.

12) Kidd, according to your hopeful outcome of the next 4 years, it appears you are actually 80% for Obama!

13) I don't have 7 houses, and I didn't go to Harvard. I served in the military, and have also spent much of my time using my professional talent for charitable purposes. I've never been black, and I've never been old. I've never been divorced, and I've never been married to an attention-whore. I've always held my honor, and I've always sought after progress. Who do I like more? Dunno.

Thanks for the opportunity to express my thoughts about the issues discussed. If I offended anybody. That sucks. If I agreed with you...that doesn't make us buddies. If you want to buy me a drink...call anytime.

Thanks.

[stephen]

What did your mother due at delta if you don't mind?

I ask because i plan to attend a Delta sponsored school withing the next year.

she's a computer programmer. are you going to that delta connection academy for flight training...or something else?

[DevilK9]

the best country in the world,

I'm a patriot, but I'm also a realist. Conceit and self-proclaiming greatness doesn't exactly equal global dominance. We get that attitude from reading the Bible.

If we are so great...why does it cost twice as much for me to go to England or Scotland?

Why can't we produce our own products with our own workforce?

Why can't we balance natural resources with energy dependence?

How can Hannah f/cking Montana make a dime?

Why is our nation's capital in the most insecure spot on the continent?

Why has rap/R&B/dumb music lasted this long?

True, there are great things about this country and I consider it worth more than my life. But to say we are the best "Just cuz" doesn't make it so. We have some serious problems, and it is my love for this country that motivates me to fight for the progression of freedoms it represents even when it may seem overwhelming or impossible.

[BanginJimmy]

I'm a patriot, but I'm also a realist. Conceit and self-proclaiming greatness doesn't exactly equal global dominance. We get that attitude from reading the Bible.

It has nothing to do with global dominance of anything. Nowhere else in the world have a people been as free as in the US. England can legally for a news outlet not to run a damaging or senative story.

If we are so great...why does it cost twice as much for me to go to England or Scotland?

as to where? Canada? Mexico? Maybe because of distance.

Why can't we produce our own products with our own workforce?

since when cant we? I knwo we dont, but thats a business decision. It is cheaper for a large corporation to have products made overseas with what amounts to slave labor and shipped to the US than it is to pay US workers and the taxes on top of it. Quantity is the name of the game, not quality.

Why can't we balance natural resources with energy dependence?

the tree huggers dont want us to. 1 single nuke powerplant has the capability of replacing two outdated coal or oil plants. The startup is significantly higher for a nuke plant, but day to day expenses are MUCH lower.

[QUOTE=DevilK9]How can Hannah f/cking Montana make a dime?[/quote

cause she has a nice tush

Why has rap/R&B/dumb music lasted this long?

because people will always listen to retarded music. Remember when boy bands were everywhere?

True, there are great things about this country and I consider it worth more than my life. But to say we are the best "Just cuz" doesn't make it so. We have some serious problems, and it is my love for this country that motivates me to fight for the progression of freedoms it represents even when it may seem overwhelming or impossible.

I agree, but we still have far more freedom than 90% of the world, and a little more than the other 10%. It is impossible to balance freedom and security and politics between the parties is only making is worse.

[Alan®]

eat dog," point blank. a perfect example is all that stuff Delta went through. my mother went from making over $100k a year, to $65k in a matter of months. she had the opportunity to take a severence package, that would've been IMPOSSIBLE to live off of, and yet there were high up executives being offered packages of more money than they were making...in the millions!

see this is the problem with that line of thinking. 1st off who's business is it anyways as to what they execs are making? 2nd of all I would guarantee that almost any executive's qualifications are going to be much higher than your mom's. No disrespect but my point is this that an exec has had to work just as hard as anyone else they just made better decisions thourghout their liives to get to the point they are at.

[Alan®]

I'm a patriot, but I'm also a realist. Conceit and self-proclaiming greatness doesn't exactly equal global dominance. We get that attitude from reading the Bible.

If we are so great...why does it cost twice as much for me to go to England or Scotland?

Why can't we produce our own products with our own workforce?

Why can't we balance natural resources with energy dependence?

How can Hannah f/cking Montana make a dime?

Why is our nation's capital in the most insecure spot on the continent?

Why has rap/R&B/dumb music lasted this long?

True, there are great things about this country and I consider it worth more than my life. But to say we are the best "Just cuz" doesn't make it so. We have some serious problems, and it is my love for this country that motivates me to fight for the progression of freedoms it represents even when it may seem overwhelming or impossible.

Ok I'm sorry but I have to scratch my head at half of this post cause half of it has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

Rap/R&B/"dumb muisc" has lasted this long because there is a market for it

Good question on our nation's capital being in an insecure spot but don't count on it being moved ever

Again there is a market for Hannah Montana and what does that half to do with anything?

[TIGERJC]

if you have nothing to hide then wiretapping is a non issue IMO.

If it helps stop terrorism, then im all for it.

Personally, i dont see Big Brother wire tapping and going adter people for the wrong reasons. Seems like its done a lot of good rather than bad.

IMO

F WIRETAPPING without a warrant, sorry but I don't trust the ppl that are in our gov't

[stephen]

see this is the problem with that line of thinking. 1st off who's business is it anyways as to what they execs are making? 2nd of all I would guarantee that almost any executive's qualifications are going to be much higher than your mom's. No disrespect but my point is this that an exec has had to work just as hard as anyone else they just made better decisions thourghout their liives to get to the point they are at.

it's not necessarily about "who's business it is on what i make." you have to think of it in terms of the company and ALL of its employees. i'm not sure if you remember, but during that time the pilots were threatening to go on strike. their reasoning for it was "we want more money." delta screamed about how it had NO money. imagine if you were an employee there...your job says "sorry regGT, we can't afford to maintain your salary, we'll have to either cut you down 40%, or you can take a severence package of 2 months pay at the reduced salary and we'll give you free flights for a year!" can you imagine how a 40% cut in pay will affect your life (considering you have a wife, kids who are in college, a house, a car, etc.)???? and your only option is to either take it, or know that in 2 months you may not have a job. now if they said that to you, you'd probably be like "damn...this company is going broke." then they turn around and offer executives severence packages that exceed their annual salary...seriously, would that not piss you off???? you wouldn't think "why the hell did that take almost half my money, if they can afford to give these folks double their money!?!" what's good for the goose, is good for the gander....right?

office politics plague us ALL. to be perfectly honest with you, you don't know WHAT my mom's qualifications are. her making over 100k a year wasn't just some handout. she worked hard to get where she's at. my whole point is EVERYONE IS TRYING TO SURVIVE. no, it's not fair to excessively tax the rich. sometimes it seems that the rich or "elite" have far more options than the average joe, which creates a rift in the social classes. like i said before, if the government is going to tax our hard earned money, then they need to use that money ON THE PEOPLE....that's what it's all about.

[TIGERJC]

Im kinda mixed on IRAQ. At the time, it was a good idea imo and this is why.

We were coming off 9/11 the biggest terror attack in history on US Soil. Now, that was a wake up call that the Clinton Era failed to secure our borders and failed to stop the posing threat of terrorism.

We get attacked and now we start panicking looking for "who is going to be next".

We settle on Iraq. Here is a country in a region that is plagued with people that are very outspoken about our destruction and israels destruction. This is a region that lets face it represents the majority of the people that attacked us on 9/11.

Iran was too powerfull for us to go after, not without the possibility of a nuclear war, Afghanistan is a country of nothing but guerillas, we werent going to go after the saudis, etc.

So enter IRAQ, a country we were just 10-12 years past a war. A country that DEFIED the UN for 12 years, a country that had a horrible dictator that committed mass genocide an ethnic cleansing.

A country that was not a REAL thread, but a threat none the less. We didnt have to worry about IRAQ coming after us, we had to worry about IRAQ helping , training, funding other people in the region, like Iran. Or providing safe haven for Bin Laden, Taliban, other terrorists etc.

The WMD were never found, but there was CREDIBLE intelligience to suggest there were some there at one time, and that they were moved long before we got there. There was also nerve gas and other chemical agents found in Iraq, just no Nukes.

I think AT THE TIME, we were in a "stop terrorism before it happens" mode and Iraq provided

1) A country we could really take over and change
2) A country that was due for its ass to get kicked
3) A country that was closest to providing a DEMOCRATIC Society in the region that with hopes would spread to other nations eventually.
4) Could prove to be a valuable ally in the future

Unfortunetly i think they misunderstood the insurgents and guerilla warfare aspect and thats where we are now. But the surge is working, there is ALOT less violence now, and it seems the country will be on its own in the next 2-5 years. Question is, will it stay democratic? or will this all be for nothing. We DONT KNOW YET.

you do know that Osama bin laden started hating america when the first Bush put troops on saudia arabia soil, He warned the U.S. not to do it. Before that during the regan adminstration we were financing Bin laden group of freedom fighters that we now call terriosts. Bush should have known not to cross bin laden, just b/c bin laden group was able to fight off the Soviets for so long.

[blaknoize]

F WIRETAPPING without a warrant, sorry but I don't trust the ppl that are in our gov't

Ur not the only one.