Quote Originally Posted by sport_122
That is NOT true.

You are trying to walk the middle while playing for one side. But you still are ignoring that there is reason for faith. Based on your logic, faith is the driving force behind ALL things as all things in and of themselves require us to have faith in. But if people of faith are able to see reason and logic as demonstrated in their very universe then we can draw a reasonable conclusion that the universe itself is giving off evidence to drive the theological debate.

Just like in science. there are reasons to believe in some theories that have not been tested or demonstrated, and there are reasons to not believe in some. And usually when science finds evidence that something is going on, a process is discovered, or better understood. So based on your definition science is just as much about faith as anything else.

So if the 5 senses lead to perception then when does perception ever become reality. Because beyond those senses we have nothing left to understand our universe with. Are you suggesting that our entire universe is all perception. If that is the case then you have no reason to ever ask for proof because ALL things are interpreted by men using the same five senses which (according to you) only give us perception but never any truth.

What is real, because now we are hitting on the philosophical arguments that tell us that we can only have faith in our senses to define reality, if we understand our universe to be submissive to an external laws and forces, which logically have to have existed before our universe started (as demonstrated by the expansion of our universe). This law tells us that it is safe to say that we know something is going to happen because our universe behaves with a specific set of guidelines and does not act outside of those rules. So our observations can logically be turned into knowledge. If you reduce human understanding down to the five senses then you close the door to understanding the part where those senses have to come together and generate some sort of response.

Hey there man, dont go drawing conclusions on my behalf. You turned a simple comment into something unnecessarily deeper. We can have a discussion on reality, but this is not the thread for it.

I simply stated, that scientific discoveries, theorems, hypotheses, ect ect are initially derived from the perception of an occurrence. IE: Rain, a shooting star, an earthquake, a flood, birth, ect ect. So in order to logically draw a conclusion said occurrence must be observed and studied. Nothing in religion can be observed and studied, other than its detrimental effect on society and the world.

Religion, and I say this with emphasis, MODERN ORGANIZED RELIGION. Serves you a cold plate of "their truth." This is whats right, you will believe this, if not well then you burn in hell."

I say this now, and I will say it again. Christianity, Islam, and Judiasim, to a lesser extent because they are not as evangelical as the other two, are a blight to the world and are inhibiting the progress of humanity. The very nature of man, the most significant thing that separates us from animals is our thirst for knowledge, the drive to question is put in jeopardy because of religion. When we ignore the fact that we do not have the answer to where we came from, why we are here, and where we are going. We stop looking, because the teachings of philosophers of the past were bastardized and manipulated into a societal tool to maintain social cohesion, that is what we know as religion. Its a processes thousands of years old, and humanity has reached an age where the slow yet sure demise of religion is at hand. It will not happen in our life time but centuries from now religion will see its darkest days.


"Faith: not wanting to know what is true." Friedrich Nietzsche