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What the FUCK makes you so special that an all-knowing being will make moves on your behalf? A being that created the sun and all that we observe would not give a SHIT about your mom being cured of cancer. Nor would She give her ONLY offspring to save a substandard creation that couldn't even follow simple instructions -LOL. People are so fickle I swear - LOL.
Malcolm X was so much cooler than MLK, just saying...
you said baby j that there is no evidence of Jesus rising back from the dead, are you in agreement tho that a man named Jesus did exist and proclaim that He was the Son of God? and here is a question for you, you said that a creator that made the sun and so on and so forth wouldnt care about us, would you as a father not care about your children that you created? would you turn your back on them after they were born and let them fend for themselves? God is more than a creator, He is a Father to us all.
Wow...i haven't logged in a long time...this thread is still kickin'!
I typed something, then I realized I didn't care, then I looked at pornography
Are you arguing my view that there is no evidence of this?Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff
I said what I had to say about Jesus existing. No more important than the "heros" we have today - you kno, like Evil Kneivel. LOL. The fact that Jesus proclaimed to be the Son of God means nothing - he is one in a long line of people to claim such - and not ONE of the people who have claimed such has been seen again (verified) after they die on this rock. What happens on Earth is what happens IRL (LOL)... this is not Avatar or the Matrix - you die here you're dead - FOR REAL. Make this life the best that you can.
Look around - there are million od dadless kids around where the dad doesn't/didn't give a fuck about them. Why blame them... "God" is the creator of life remember?? :rolleyes: So it's his job to care for kids that are created - not "their dad". What say you to that?
God has done NOTHING for me that a father would/should do for his kids - nor has he done anything for you.
you speak for yourself my friend. God has done plenty for me
Interesting. You weren't speaking for yourself when you said...Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff
With that statement you were speaking for all people... yet you want to tell me to speak for myself only. I heart hypocrites.Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BABY J
That is not necessarily the case. There are writings of eye witness accounts of Jesus being seen alive after his death. Paul wrote that there were some 500 or so people who saw Christ. Do you not think that this would have been verifiable as a claim in the early first century?
Now of course you could ignore that, but there are also other things such as the explosion in growth that happened after his death. and the actions of the disciples after his death versus after he was said to have risen.
There is a place of where I think when we look at what is out there we want to dismiss this stuff because of our desire to either be right or deny what is there, but eye witnesses in modern court cases often are the ones with the most weight. You get 25 people to testify to seeing something happen, then the jury will respond, let alone hundreds, but this has all been said. You can continue to ignore it.
But i ask this....
Why would the followers of Christ present such a powerful movement after Christ was dead unless he rose again? Christ claimed that he would, when he died they scattered in fear of what would happen, because they expected something different. When they saw him again, they were made more bold than ever before. Why would they have continued on, even to death, had they not been fully convinced that the Christ they followed did indeed rise from the dead as he said he would.
Why would so many people change their minds about Christ in the early first century, in that same region? Had his resurrection not been witnessed we can reasonably conclude from looking at other (cult) leaders in history, that his movement would have died, simply because the movement was based on the principles of the resurrection and his God hood.
If the resurrection did not occur, what are some reasonable explanations for the missing body of Christ? The Jews would have quickly produced evidence of this as soon as people spoke of Christ walking around after his death. They did not and could not. We could have expected that there would have been some sort of evidence from one of the hundreds of followers of Christ, who would have said, "no, this is not the case and christ was not seen". And he was said to have been around for 40 days which would have allowed ample opportunity for solidifying the claims.
About the dad thing, that is an emotional appeal not a logical one. First off, your children (if i recall you do have a wife and at least one kid) will never know how much you as their father have done for them. They will never know or understand the sacrifices you have made to discipline, provide for, or love them, yet they could still present the exact same statements as you. "You have done nothing for me that a father should/would do for their kid" Does that mean that you have not done your job or does that mean that something is wrong with your kids? No, it simply means that sometimes we cannot fully understand the intentions, actions, and motives of others.
My point on this is that you seem to be making arguments based on the actions of God vs the existence of God. As you have simply stated already, there are thousands of children who are fatherless, yet, not a single one of them is truly fatherless because they all come from somewhere. The fact that their fathers are dead or not acting in a certain way in their lives does not remove the fact that their fathers EXIST and ARE their fathers.
So my point is how does the actions and our understanding of why God does anything weigh in a conversation about whether or not God exists...It doesn't. Now if you want to argue the character of God, that is a different story, but existence does not mean that he is good to you or not. It simple means that he is.
good one sport, you took the words out of my mouth. nice to have you back brother. God bless you
There are "eye witness" reports that Santa Claus exists, too. There are "eye witness" reports that Bigfoot exists. So what. Several people have wrote about Santa Claus. Seems verifiable enough to me, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
It has nothing to do with desiring to be right. It has to do with there is no factual evidence of any existence of God. A book? Right. There you go.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
Again, all this documented in the same book that gave us a man parting an actual sea. The same book that had a man build a boat big enough for a pair of every animal at the time to be saved in from a 40 day/night flood. The same book that had a man swallowed whole by a whale. I can see where all this is 100% believable.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
Repeat after me....there are no such things as grave robbers. There are no such thi......Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
You don't have children, do you? You're completely wrong on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
That's because all the God-people on here keep making their cases on each. People thanking God for what he has done for them is referring to actions supplied by God. People saying He exists is referring to the existence. Not sure what your "point" is.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
The actual point is this: There is no factual or tangible evidence that God has placed anyone in the position that they are currently in or have ever been in. Not one. There is ONE BIG piece of evidence that shows how you (general you) have placed yourself in the position that you are in or have ever been in.
Later, QD.
I do believe in God, and I do not believe simply because the Bible says so. I believe because I realize that our existence can only function by way of accepting some things as transcendent. Now maybe for some people the scientific approach will provide answers but the truth is it doesn't, and the Bible doesn't give all the answers to life. That said, I have just read how you didn't really make any real comments to support your disbelief. Am I to take that as you are saying that you don't believe because you "just don't believe".Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdodgeŽ
We can play the rhetoric game over and over (which is why I stopped coming to this forum for so long), but the truth is that gets us nowhere. There are obviously some things that you have to apply general logic to in order for them to make sense. In your statements you choose to throw the logic out. Santa Claus (the big red suit) is historically known as a fictional character and in no way equates to Jesus. The big foot thing is something else entirely, even though Jesus was definitely a real person, but my point is, if you cannot except eye witness testimony, because according to your statements you make it seem unreliable, you cannot accept written testimony, because that somehow presupposes God's existence and that is against your stance, then how exactly do you make up your mind about anything. Where do you gather the ability to use logical reasoning to determine your answer because you have not evaluated the evidence, you threw it out before it was presented.
Do you base it off of yourself? That is impossible because all that you are is a product of your upbringing so you have been influenced by the outside as much as anyone else (and that includes us "God-people"). So tell me. Since you say there is no God? Is this something you feel inside. What is your tangible reasoning to a seemingly intangible question.
so let me see...
Scientists...they are as much a part of eyewitnesses and the people who see Santa Claus,
historical documentation is a much a part of inadmissible literature as the words written in the bible....
So the problem is that if you really want to have the conversation on a rational level (just as in court where things are argued rationally on a daily basis) the validity of my arguments must be tested thoroughly, but the argument that you make is sufficient in throwing out ALL evidence. so that leaves us in a courtroom pointing fingers at one another, and that is how illogical people make decisions....I would rather error on the side of logical inquiry that ignorant perception.
Where did I say I didn't believe? If you can quote the exact words where I said I do not believe, then I will give you my house, my 3 cars, my house on St. Simon's Island, my house in Tennessee and some very profitable land all for free. Guaranteed. As far as my "real comments?" I've proven myself, over and over, to be smarter than the average bear on here. I'm sure you're included in that pack. The thing is this...how about you prove, without a doubt, that God exists and I'll be a 100% believer. See it's not up to me to disprove Him. It's up to you to prove Him. There are no videos showing Him. There are no recordings of Him. There is nothing to support Him being here except a book. My "real comments" aren't really necessary as common sense should have kicked in.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
You can always go back out the way you came, man. You won't be missed.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
Lolol. You're a funny dude. nd dare I say I believe you when you say you're a Christian.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
I looked all over YouTube. Never saw a video featuring God. I even looked on BibleVideo.com and didn't see anything. There is no evidence. There is only faith. And faith is hardly proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
Do you base it off of yourself? That is impossible because all that you are is a product of your upbringing so you have been influenced by the outside as much as anyone else (and that includes us "God-people"). So tell me. Since you say there is no God? Is this something you feel inside. What is your tangible reasoning to a seemingly intangible question.
I was homeless for about almost two years. Living on the streets of Atlanta. Not one time did I pray to God to get me out of there. I realized what I was doing and recognized what I needed to do to get myself out of there. I made the decisions based on what I knew I needed to do. I got a job and made moves to get myself under my own roof. I brought myself back from the doldrums. Not once did I ask for any help from some deity. I wasn't raised in a Christian home. I wasn't raised in a shithole home either, but we just never talked about religion. I was raised with morals and values that are becoming of a responsible, respectable person. I am a product of my upbringing. I have my parent and my grandparents to thank for who I am and where I am. Not anyone else or anything else. I certainly haven't been influenced by church people. In fact, it's quite the opposite with church folks. They repulse me. That's why I let Bible-thumpers knocking on my door inside to see a nice, fresh pentagram on my living room floor. That's why a couple of months ago when those same pushers parked their car in front of my house and I walked out there with a phone to my ear acting like I was calling the cops because of a "suspicious car" outside my home.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
And again with your assumption that I say there is no God. I sure would hate to lose all my Earthly possessions to you if you find that passage. So because you try to make yourself seem smarter by wording your responses the way you do gives you room to assume something about someone you've never met? You can't knock me down, man. I'm too far up. Later, QD.
hey sport122 or whatever... tackle this post... since your buddy geoff didn't have the brains to engage in a rebuttalathon (get it? like a marathon--its funny, right?) with the lights of me
not saying you're any brighter... haha, jkjk
no, really i wasn't kidding
http://importatlanta.com/forums/show...&postcount=498
if you don't know what im talking about start reading from here http://importatlanta.com/forums/show...231713&page=25 or a page back
lemme know when you've got something other than the same old boring things that religious ppl bring to the table
oh, and if you've studied this in some fancy college then show me some things your professor taught you
Either way this should be interesting
geoff was about to bust out the white flag haha, getting bombed to hell by a few "dumb" folks 'round here in dis thread
I think I posted in here but Yes I do believe. Why? Faith. Can you take it away? Nope.
QD stole my thunder. Great post...
If God is perfect, then why would he want to act at all on our behalf? If a perfect God wants to create something outside of himself, this implies to me that he is incomplete. However, human beings desperately want there to be some purpose behind the universe and they want to be apart of it. Sure enough, God "just so happens" to have created everything from nothing as part of a divine plan and that plan just so happens to revolve completely around us... LOL. Did God create us in his image or did we create God in OUR image... think about that REALLY hard. Think about the earliest humans explaining to a child while "uncle Billy died." ;)
We value faith and trust because we are finite beings. They are a direct result of our limitations. However, God is supposedly infinite and all knowing. God "just so happens" to value that which is logically impossible for him to exhibit based on the very properties ascribed to him. How convenient that "streets of Gold" is the best that he as has to offer considering that a God of his stature "gold" is nothing. How convenient that the major fear that we have (death and the uncertaintly surrounding it) God has worked it out - LOL.
We fear death, so God wants to give us eternal life. We are uncomfortable with the unknown, so God magically reveals different, but detailed, answers to specific people using some undetectable and unverifiable communication channel. I could go on, but I think you get the point.
So, yes. When one takes an a deeper and more intellectual look at the supposed actions of God, the question becomes: if a omnipotent and omniscient being being does exist, why should he appear tailor made to our wants and desires?
baby j- you make alot of sense with your post above^. there is only a few problems with it. you are trying to exhibit knowledge on something you yourself have never taken the time to study. i have done the same thing when it comes to all the different scientific theories out there and what not. your view of God seems to me is coming from things you have read and heard other men say but you yourself have never taken the time to investigate. so to answer your question, God is not tailor made to our wants and desires. you see God has His way of doing things and we as people try and follow that. the reason God might seem tailor made is because of all the people out there that try and fit God into their own comprehension. A creative being as you might imagine and can admit, did exist then would it be fair to say that someone or something with the capability to create everything we see would be beyond our farthest understanding and logic? YES! people try and figure God out like He is some kind of patient being studied for sleeping problems. the cold hard fact is that we have made a false image of what God is. they take the christian God and His Word and skew it and twist it to fit their own ideologies and thoughts and theories and pray for things they know are not right and when He doesnt answer it they come up with an excuse. over the past few months i have learned alot about myself and my God. He does not give us the desires of our hearts and all of our wants. He will give what He promised and anytime we try and be sneaky and selfish and pray for things that are against His ways we will always get disapointed. there are two gods in the christian faith. the god of the world= skewed idea made by men to instill their own desires that has no biblical accuracy. and the God of the bible, creation, and men= Jesus Christ, who stands for righteousness, self sacrifice, love, honesty, morality, eternity, TRUTH! you have to actually search yourself to find this God.
Do you know why that is? It's because the "cold hard fact" is that there is NO set image in place as to what we are to see Him as. How do you honestly know what image is false or not? All you can really say is that you don't know. You go on faith. Which is not fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff
You really don't have to search. Just have that faith. Later, QD.Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff
i didnt mean image as in a view of man. i meant a false perception of what God is all about. and you do have to search, which will lead you to faith in the real God, not the 30 somthin different denominations views on Him. you instead will have true faith which is your own and not what someone taught you
But no one knows who the "real God" is. You think yours is. Someone else may think his/hers is. How do you really know that your perception of God isn't false You don't. And that is where I agree with you on having a faith that is all your own. Later, QD.Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff
i see where your coming from. i was just trying to point out that the god of this world that most people know christians for is not the God of the Bible. ofcourse believing in a God or anything requires faith, but not blind faith. as someone with faith i should always be able to answer why i have faith in my God, and be able to defend my faith. not just say, " well i heard someone say sometime that this is the truth and this is what i gotta do." we can both agree that blind faith is stupidity and foolishness
It is already hard enough for many who call themselves Christians to even believe what they believe to be correct and absolute. Even if they thought it, do they live it, is the big question. Where Christians fail (as a people) and where the rest of society see them is that they're seen as being one of the same crowd and doing the same things everyone else does but "preach" a different thing. So they challenge the status quo never realizing that they only challenge themselves in front of the status quo. So to prove that they're right (to address the bold) only allows them to validate and vindicate themselves. Ask the tough questions and wrestle down truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by BABY J
And you are right that great claims require great evidence. Archeology provides sound evidence for events within the Bible and the same can be said of evolution as well... discover truth.
It takes a complete and total fool to believe that there is no other life in the galaxy, even sentient life. But would people have faith that such beings did not exist, of course because it would rain on their parade.
how would that rain on people with faiths parade? the bible make mention of alien galaxies or other life. if you look at what the bible is supposed to be( God's blueprint for man) than why would it matter to us if there is other life out there?
Sure it does...
why would it matter to us? sure it would be cool, what if we found other life and they came to this earth preaching Jesus? would that sway your opinion at all?
that would be one of the worst things to happen everQuote:
Originally Posted by geoff
lol their jesus wouldn't be the same as our jesus, unless the were human looking too,
i see this resulting in a huge war because our jesus look different from their jesus, especially if they were just as intorerable as us
think about it would you accept their jesus if it was green and had 4 legs? also what are the chances of jesus having the same name? this sounds like a huge misunderstanding that will happen.
who is to say that other life, if there is any, would be green with 4 legs? we as humans are supremely engineered creatures to adapt to life. we have a very effecient design to live. so in all reality, if the law of nature of natural selection applies, then other life in the universe would look very similar to us. they might be more advanced with higher intellectual capabilities but other than that i highly doubt they would have thin grey bodies and huge heads and huge black eyes.
Holy assumptions Batman.
What if they are from a huge planet, with an inheirently large gravitational pull. They would be much more bulky to deal with stress or better equiped for such a place. To think that we are the perfect being is retarded. We can barely fend off animals not even our size. We have the ability of greater thought than most animals. You must have watched a lot of old school Star Trek or something to believe that alien life would look remotely human:lmfao:Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff
i never said aliens would be green and had 4 legs, i was never stating facts, only merely stating a scenarioQuote:
Originally Posted by geoff
i asked simply would you accept their version of jesus if it was green and had 4 legs?
listen God has no flesh to bind Him, He appeared to us as Jesus. He may appear to aliens as something else. BUT, if other life came here and was holding a Holy book of this God's commandments and what not and it was Jesus being preached then YES i would accept it.
and to starrfire, you really are funny you know that? sure gravity would change the appearance slightly and so would the closeness of the sun. so sure they could be bigger or smaller or different colors but their organ systems, nervous system, ect would be very similar. what you fail to realize is just how perfect the human body is. science is amazed at how intricate each system we have is. i was just watching the Science channel the other day and they were talking about the earth and universe and just how perfect everything was to be able to sustain life. they were talking about how earth could not sustain life if we had no moon. come on now guys, its not that hard. just actually think for a second and quit coming up with excuses or arguements cuz your a rebelious being.
The living organisms could be nitrogen based, instead of carbon based, which I could imagine making such an organism unlikely to be the same. But I digress, such a discussion is as off topic and out there as religion itself. Unknown to humans at this point in time.
"ALL religions of a spiritual nature are inventions of man. He has created an entire system of gods with nothing more than his carnal brain. Just because he has an ego, and cannot accept it, he has to externalize it into some great spiritual device which he calls "God". God can do all the things man is forbidden to do - such as kill people, perform miracles to gratify his will, control without any apparent responsibility, etc. If man needs such a god and recognizes that god, then he is worshiping an entity that a human being invented. Therefore, HE IS WORSHIPING BY PROXY THE MAN THAT INVENTED GOD.
Is it not more sensible to worship a god that he, himself has created in accordance with his own emotional needs - one that best represents the very carnal and physical being that has the idea-power to invent a god in the first place?"
- Anton Lavey
who likes pizza?
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Yes,there is a creator and a son his son 'our messiah' with out the man upstairs there is no reason to be here...all this 'evillution' crap is nothing but lies and trying to disprove the creation of the world by our creator....the whole evolution thing is 'blind leading blind'..my 2 cents
i know the sun isnt a ball of fire, but a giant nuclear reaction. I know the laws of gravity because I can jump up and come back down here on earth. I know 1+1=2 not because someone told me, but because it can be proven. I can have one apple and someone give me another apple and I'll have two apples. Proof is not someone's perception or interpretation. If I asked 100 people what I had, 100 people would say I had two apples.Quote:
Originally Posted by sport_122
We also know the alphabet works (as we're speaking the English language) and this has nothing to do with trying to prove the existence of god. This is a straw man fallacy. Which is common when trying to prove the existence of god.
I am an agnostic atheist so rock solid proof would have to present itself for me to be a believer.
Even if the Judeo-Christian god showed his existence, I still wouldn't worship him