Plane on a treadmill poll...

[Z0_o6]

no it wont

[joecoolfreak]

Again...what keeps it from moving forward...specifically...what part of the belt and plane touch?

[speedminded]

This is a quote from NASA. The Venturi effect is based on Bernelli's theory.

When a gas flows over an object, or when an object moves through a gas, the molecules of the gas are free to move about the object; they are not closely bound to one another as in a solid. Because the molecules move, there is a velocity associated with the gas. Within the gas, the velocity can have very different values at different places near the object. Bernoulli's equation, which was named for Daniel Bernoulli, relates the pressure in a gas to the local velocity; so as the velocity changes around the object, the pressure changes as well. Adding up (integrating) the pressure variation times the area around the entire body determines the aerodynamic force on the body. The lift is the component of the aerodynamic force which is perpendicular to the original flow direction of the gas. The drag is the component of the aerodynamic force which is parallel to the original flow direction of the gas. Now adding up the velocity variation around the object instead of the pressure variation also determines the aerodynamic force. The integrated velocity variation around the object produces a net turning of the gas flow. From Newton's third law of motion, a turning action of the flow will result in a re-action (aerodynamic force) on the object. So both "Bernoulli" and "Newton" are correct. Integrating the effects of either the pressure or the velocity determines the aerodynamic force on an object. We can use equations developed by each of them to determine the magnitude and direction of the aerodynamic force.

Hope that helps. There must be flow/velocity in order for the plane to lift off

Quit worrying about how a fucking airplane flies...It has nothing to do with whether the plane will move forward or not. We know a fucking stationary airplane is not going to fly, can you not grasp the concept that a conveyor WILL NOT prevent a plane from moving forward?

[{X}Echo419]

Quit worrying about how a fucking airplane flies...It has nothing to do with whether the plane will move forward or not. We know a fucking stationary airplane is not going to fly, can you not grasp the concept that a conveyor WILL NOT prevent a plane from moving forward?

yeah, cause THAT dosen't have to do with anything....
yes it will. go buy a plane and we'll get together this weekend and I will laugh @ you.

[joecoolfreak]

Echo...you still haven't answer my last question...it will help you to figure this out...one step at a time

[speedminded]

it's not moving forward. it's on a convayer belt. if you stand nest to the convayer belt the plane will remain in the same spot next to you.

ok you're right, it will remain stationary...until you actually apply power to the engines....now what's preventing it from moving itself forward?

Here's ANOTHER analogy for you. Sit on a skateboard on a treadmill with a rope tied infront of you. Does the treadmill prevent you from pulling yourself forward?

[speedminded]

yeah, cause THAT dosen't have to do with anything....
yes it will. go buy a plane and we'll get together this weekend and I will laugh @ you.

I have access to 3 planes and a helicopter at my disposal with just a phone call (as long as the owners are with me). Not to mention I am sitting 4 feet from a licensed flight instructor. The only person getting laughed at is you my friend.

[JennB]

And another one... this one from an aviation website

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191034-1.html

[{X}Echo419]

ok you're right, it will remain stationary...until you actually apply power to the engines....now what's preventing it from moving itself forward?

Here's ANOTHER analogy for you. Sit on a skateboard on a treadmill with a rope tied infront of you. Does the treadmill prevent you from pulling yourself forward?

OMFG! did you copy and paste this from 3 pages ago?

NO SHIT! if the plane goes faster than the convayer belt it will take off. of course since normally the plane goes faster than the STATIONARY ground it takes off there to.
you obviously don't understand what peopla are saying here.
some, are saying that you don't have to go faster than the convayer belt to take off. which of course is not true. this dumbass that posted above me thinks that. she keeps quoting nut cases in a feble attempt to promote her foolsih argument

[{X}Echo419]

And another one... this one from an aviation website

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191034-1.html

give these guys a call.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi...=0&ti=0&sc=400

[JennB]

Will do.


And while I do that, try reading all of the links I've posted with experts clearly saying that it will take off.

[joecoolfreak]

what we are saying is that it doesn't matter how fast the conveyer belt goes. It could go 1mph or 1000 and the plane will still move forward and take off. The reason is because the only thing that the belt touches is the wheels and they have no effect on the propulsion of the plane... They move indepentantly of the plane and that is what we are trying to make you see.

[Xan]

You are incorrect sir...the propeller pulls through the air and the jet pushes through the air. The result is the same, the body of mass moves through the air and the air is then moved over the wings. A jet will take off just as easily as a plane.

Wrong. The source of propulsion on a prop aircraft is at the front of the plane. Hense "pulled through the air." Jets "push" from the rear. When a propeller turns it forces air past the wings. When a jet engine pushes it forces the wings through the air. Jets require ground speed to take off because air isn't forced around the wings, the wings are forced through the air. Therefore, the wings would actually have to be moving for a jet propelled aircraft to gain lift.

[speedminded]

yeah, cause THAT dosen't have to do with anything....
yes it will. go buy a plane and we'll get together this weekend and I will laugh @ you.

So now are you saying that a single engine prop plane cannot move forward if its wings were removed? As i said, since the idea behind the original question is far beyond your relm of reasoning quit thinking about how a plane flies and just determine if the conveyor will prevent a plane from moving forward.

[speedminded]

Wrong. The source of propulsion on a prop aircraft is at the front of the plane. Hense "pulled through the air." Jets "push" from the rear. When a propeller turns it forces air past the wings. When a jet engine pushes it forces the wings through the air. Jets require ground speed to take off because air isn't forced around the wings, the wings are forced through the air. Therefore, the wings would actually have to be moving for a jet propelled aircraft to gain lift.

It doesn't matter if it's a jet or a prop or fucking pedal powered. The plane WILL move forward whether it's pulling itself my way of propellor or pushing it via jet engine.

[{X}Echo419]

Will do.

I can hear it now:

JennB: Hi, is this Lockheed Martin>
LM: yes, can I help you?
JB: Yeah, if I put a plane on a convayer belt to prevent it from ataining speed will it take off?
LM: silly bitch, who told you that? is this a prank call? lift and drag don't happen just because you crank up the plane. don't ever call me with a stupid question like that again.

or something "like" that.

[{X}Echo419]

So now are you saying that a single engine prop plane cannot move forward if its wings were removed? As i said, since the idea behind the original question is far beyond your relm of reasoning quit thinking about how a plane flies and just determine if the conveyor will prevent a plane from moving forward.

No, it will move. just not FLY.

[joecoolfreak]

Wrong. The source of propulsion on a prop aircraft is at the front of the plane. Hense "pulled through the air." Jets "push" from the rear. When a propeller turns it forces air past the wings. When a jet engine pushes it forces the wings through the air. Jets require ground speed to take off because air isn't forced around the wings, the wings are forced through the air. Therefore, the wings would actually have to be moving for a jet propelled aircraft to gain lift.

Not quite,

You are stuck the same place that echo is. The plane or jet moves forward because there is nothing stopping it. See Speed's question about a plane with no wings...The plane will still move forward with out them whether it is pushed or pulled. Now put the wings back on and you will see that it doesn't matter whether it is a jet or a plane, it will take off regardless of belt speed.

[speedminded]

OMFG! did you copy and paste this from 3 pages ago?

NO SHIT! if the plane goes faster than the convayer belt it will take off. of course since normally the plane goes faster than the STATIONARY ground it takes off there to.
you obviously don't understand what peopla are saying here.
some, are saying that you don't have to go faster than the convayer belt to take off. which of course is not true. this dumbass that posted above me thinks that. she keeps quoting nut cases in a feble attempt to promote her foolsih argument

So you are still arguing that the speed of the conveyor has an effect on how much force it takes to hold the plane stationary? Did you not remember our analogy of the skateboard on the treadmill? Do you think you have to push harder on the skateboard as the speed of the treadmill is increased to keep it from moving backwards?

[joecoolfreak]

No, it will move. just not FLY.

If it moves...then put the wings back on and it would fly....or are you saying that it is the combination of a belt and wings that stops it?

[speedminded]

I can hear it now:

JennB: Hi, is this Lockheed Martin>
LM: yes, can I help you?
JB: Yeah, if I put a plane on a convayer belt to prevent it from ataining speed will it take off?
LM: silly bitch, who told you that? is this a prank call? lift and drag don't happen just because you crank up the plane. don't ever call me with a stupid question like that again.

or something "like" that.

You are just making yourself look incredibaly ignorant in front of some of IA's most educated. lol.

[JennB]

I can hear it now:

JennB: Hi, is this Lockheed Martin>
LM: yes, can I help you?
JB: Yeah, if I put a plane on a convayer belt to prevent it from ataining speed will it take off?
LM: silly bitch, who told you that? is this a prank call? lift and drag don't happen just because you crank up the plane. don't ever call me with a stupid question like that again.

or something "like" that.

You suck at life.

And please learn to spell conveyor.

May I ask what field you are educated in?

[speedminded]

You suck at life.

And please learn to spell conveyor.

May I ask what field you are educated in?

aeronautical engineering

[{X}Echo419]

If it moves...then put the wings back on and it would fly....or are you saying that it is the combination of a belt and wings that stops it?

yes, the belt keeps the plane from ataining speed. thus no wind is passing over the wings. thus the plane won't fly.

[BABY J]

You didn't like my TECHNICAL answers echo, so let me break it down to you. ---> Unbefuckinglievable. Think about it. Jet engines push air not dirt. Therefore a treadmill can not & will not be able to halt (yes it will BARELY slow it though due to friction... too minute to mention) the progress of a jet which is not getting velocity from pushing dirt but from the jet pushing air. If a jet used big fucking engines attached to the wheels to gain enough speed to fling itself into the air then it would never get off the ground. BUT IT DOESN'T, it uses (pushes) air to create it's forward velocity, which creates airflow over the wings, which creates lift, which achieves flight. **ding** Chicken or beef sir?

[joecoolfreak]

th belt keeps the plane from ataining speed. thus no wind is passing over the wings. thus the plane won't fly.

How?????? Please explain why....

[Xan]

It doesn't matter if it's a jet or a prop or fucking pedal powered. The plane WILL move forward whether it's pulling itself my way of propellor or pushing it via jet engine.

You completely missed my point. I was saying that if you put a jet aircraft to this test it wouldn't take off because it isn't moving air around the wings. A propeller doesn't work this way. A prop aircraft WILL take off on a treadmill NO MATTER HOW FAST THE TREADMILL IS GOING because WINDSPEED IS THE ONLY FACTOR HERE and windspeed is controlled by the propeller, not the wheels.

[{X}Echo419]

How?????? Please explain why....

it's not GOING ANYWHERE! that's how!

[joecoolfreak]

Why????? as soon as you figure this little part out...you will be in the clear....It doesn't hold the plane back...it just spins the wheels...the wheels don't have a damn thing to do with the plane.

[{X}Echo419]

PUT UP OR SHUT UP FOLKS! you guy get together by a plane and pm me and we'll settle this saturday or sunday. come on if you're sooo right you have nothing to worry about.

[{X}Echo419]

Why????? as soon as you figure this little part out...you will be in the clear....It doesn't hold the plane back...it just spins the wheels...the wheels don't have a damn thing to do with the plane.

yes they do.....friction...GRAVITY!!!! SPEED NESSARY FOR THE WIND TO PASS OVER THE WINGS AND THE PLANE....

[joecoolfreak]

I will take that offer...how much would you like to wager?

[speedminded]

You completely missed my point. I was saying that if you put a jet aircraft to this test it wouldn't take off because it isn't moving air around the wings. A propeller doesn't work this way. A prop aircraft WILL take off on a treadmill NO MATTER HOW FAST THE TREADMILL IS GOING because WINDSPEED IS THE ONLY FACTOR HERE and windspeed is controlled by the propeller, not the wheels.

*sigh* *shakes head* Wings provide lift. Whether it's jet of prop both have to have air over around the wings to fly. AGAIN, quit worrying about how a plane flies and just determine why or why not a plane can move forward on a conveyor.

[{X}Echo419]

PUT UP OR SHUT UP FOLKS! you guy get together by a plane and pm me and we'll settle this saturday or sunday. come on if you're sooo right you have nothing to worry about.

last time. what's it gonna be.

[joecoolfreak]

This is the deal...I will go out and buy a model plane...most likely a cheap one powered by rubber bands....just to prove this to you. A rubber band powered plane can do this...I will put the plane on the belt and hold it there while you set the belt to it's highest speed...when I let go of the plane and release the rubber band...it will fly, but I am not going to all that trouble if it isn't worth my while.

[joecoolfreak]

So...I am taking you up...wager?

[BABY J]

You suck at life.

And please learn to spell conveyor.

May I ask what field you are educated in?

**to ECHO**

--> Aeronautical Engineering, Embry Riddle (pursuing)
--> Computer Science (FINISHED)

Also might I add this pic... I know more about flying and achieving flight than most people on this board. LOL. Although the Air Force NEVER let me try to launch the E-3 Sentry AWACS aircraft from a treadmill. The NERVE of them!! LOL Hey ECHO, note the wings on the uniform and the flight suit... you don't get those by staying on the ground all day. LOL.

[joecoolfreak]

Waiting.........................

[umairejaz]

^^LOL... +1 for sure.

Echo your fuckin stupid

[joecoolfreak]

Still waiting...you said put up..I am...shall we say 200?