Plane on a treadmill poll...

[Ruiner]

The only way you can hold a plane back is with the brakes, cutting its air supply, bolting it to the ground; so if the treadmill is none of the above what you think?


The plane will move forward b/c the plane is propelled by a turbine

You are correct. Now explain to me why you voted "NO" that it would not take off?

[RJ's325ITS]

You are correct. Now explain to me why you voted "NO" that it would not take off?

B/c it was a fictional question....... if it was a realistic question you will get a real answer... just MPO.

[Killer]

..... planes don't take off by pushing air.... they take off by creating lift.... they push air to gain speed.. the speed helps them create the lift.....

[speedminded]

..... planes don't take off by pushing air.... they take off by creating lift.... they push air to gain speed.. the speed helps them create the lift.....

planes don't push air? how do you suppose they travel forward to create that lift?

[ShooterMcGavin]

planes don't push air? how do you suppose they travel forward to create that lift?

now ur treading into murky waters, depends on ur definition of "push"

[Killer]

planes don't push air? how do you suppose they travel forward to create that lift?

read what i said again......

they push air to gain speed to create lift.... i never said they don't push air...

i didn't say they didn't push air.... but pushing air alone is not going to make one take off.. i can push air out of my ass all day long and not take off unless i had wings and was creating lift... but to creat the lift i would have to be splitting the opposing air with my wings...(plane like wings).. now rockets take off just by pushing air.... but they push air vertically... not horizontally like a plane does...

[Hektik]

why is everyone going so deep into the question.. forget all the extra little variables such as wind speed, alltitude, weight of passangers on board, wether the pilot is wearing a toupee or not..

[Ruiner]

why is everyone going so deep into the question.. forget all the extra little variables such as wind speed, alltitude, weight of passangers on board, wether the pilot is wearing a toupee or not..

The small variables are what they use to justify why it won't take off since their brain cannot grasp that it will take off.

[Killer]

The small variables are what they use to justify why it won't take off since their brain cannot grasp that it will take off.

can you explain to me how it could take off?

[Killer]

saying it would take off on a treadmill is like saying you would feel the G force when dynoing a car (well, if you sat in it anyway) your tires maybe going 100 mph... but ur still sitting still, so is the car, and there is no opposing force.

[speedminded]

saying it would take off on a treadmill is like saying you would feel the G force when dynoing a car (well, if you sat in it anyway) your tires maybe going 100 mph... but ur still sitting still, so is the car, and there is no opposing force.

**NEWS FLASH** A PLANE IS NOT A CAR, PLANES ARE NOT POWERED BY THEIR WHEELS. ERASE THE WORDS AND ALL EXPERIENCES WITH DYNOS AND AUTOMOBILES FROM YOUR MIND.

[Killer]

**NEWS FLASH** A PLANE IS NOT A CAR, PLANES ARE NOT POWERED BY THEIR WHEELS. ERASE THE WORDS AND ALL EXPERIENCES WITH DYNOS AND AUTOMOBILES FROM YOUR MIND.

your a fucking idiot... no shit a plane and a car is different.. but the concept is the same dick face... g force is g force whether created in a plane or a car... it does not matter what is powering the vehicle or aircraft.

http://crankyflier.blogspot.com/2006...treadmill.html

http://www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt


and last but not least...... http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/move.html

[speedminded]

now ur treading into murky waters, depends on ur definition of "push"

The word "thrust" might be a lil harder to comprehend

[speedminded]

your a fucking idiot... no shit a plane and a car is different.. but the concept is the same dick face... g force is g force whether created in a plane or a car... it does not matter what is powering the vehicle or aircraft.

http://crankyflier.blogspot.com/2006...treadmill.html

http://www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt


and last but not least...... http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/move.html

no, the concept isn't the same at all...and not even close. A car on a free spinning dyno or treadmill that is going the same speed the opposite direction WILL prevent a car from going anywhere. A treadmill going either direction at any speed WILL NEVER effect a planes ability to propel its self forward, gain speed & lift, and take off just like any other runway.

[speedminded]

FYI: This guy is a complete idiot, lol...
http://crankyflier.blogspot.com/2006...treadmill.html

I can't even tell what the final answer is here, too much conflicting...
http://www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt

[Killer]

FYI: This guy is a complete idiot, lol...
http://crankyflier.blogspot.com/2006...treadmill.html

I can't even tell what the final answer is here, too much conflicting...
http://www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt

that's why i posted this link... argue with actual rocket scientist bub....
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/move.html

[speedminded]

that's why i posted this link... argue with actual rocket scientist bub....
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/move.html

What does that link have to do with anything? First figure out if a plane will propel itself forward, you answered yes on the poll...

[Ruiner]

Killer - It's this simple: A plane moves via its engines which run through the air. The wheels are only there to keep the plane off of the ground.

Just look at ski plans, boat planes, or other planes without wheels. They still take off. The treadmill would just make the plane's wheels spin faster, but otherwise it would have NO affect on the plane itself.

[Killer]

Killer - It's this simple: A plane moves via its engines which run through the air. The wheels are only there to keep the plane off of the ground.

Just look at ski plans or planes without wheels. They still take off. The treadmill would just make the plane's wheels spin faster, but otherwise it would have NO affect on the plane itself.

ski planes don't just sit still and take off, they gain speed on the water/snow then take off.... you're right it has nothing to do with the wheels... but everything to do with speed... a plane must gain ground speed to create wind speed which causes the plain to lift...


i want you to get on a treadmill with a kite and put on some roller blades... or run if you'd like... see how long it takes you to get that kite in the air....

i promise it won't lift.. even if you put a jet pack on your back.. until you gain enough SPEED to create LIFT

[Killer]

What does that link have to do with anything? First figure out if a plane will propel itself forward, you answered yes on the poll...

you obviously can't read anything..... and i voted no genius...

[speedminded]

you obviously can't read anything..... and i voted no genius...

ah, you did... i did CTRL F and searched your name and thought i saw yes -- oh well, too bad for you.

[Ruiner]

ski planes don't just sit still and take off, they gain speed on the water/snow then take off.... you're right it has nothing to do with the wheels... but everything to do with speed... a plane must gain ground speed to create wind speed which causes the plain to lift...


i want you to get on a treadmill with a kite and put on some roller blades... or run if you'd like... see how long it takes you to get that kite in the air....

i promise it won't lift.. even if you put a jet pack on your back.. until you gain enough SPEED to create LIFT

Correct. However, what I am telling you is that a treadmill, going backwards, CANNOT prevent a plane from moving forward.

Understand what I am saying? A treadmill, no matter how fast it is spinning in reverse, cannot stop a plane from moving forward, gaining speed, and eventually taking off.

[speedminded]

ski planes don't just sit still and take off, they gain speed on the water/snow then take off.... you're right it has nothing to do with the wheels... but everything to do with speed... a plane must gain ground speed to create wind speed which causes the plain to lift...


i want you to get on a treadmill with a kite and put on some roller blades... or run if you'd like... see how long it takes you to get that kite in the air....

i promise it won't lift.. even if you put a jet pack on your back.. until you gain enough SPEED to create LIFT

Why do you think the plane will not gain ground speed? What's preventing the engines from creating thrust and propelling the plane forward?

[Ruiner]

Why do you think the plane will not gain ground speed?

He thinks that the treadmill, rolling in reverse, can prevent a plane from moving forward. THAT is where he has an error in logic.

[Ruiner]

Killer - watch these:

Here it is with your own eyes. The plane moves forward. Given a long enough runway, it would gain speed, generate lift, and finally take off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

Another one showing the plane moving forward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDliz-YinyY

Using the flatbed of a truck as the treadmill that moves in the opposite direction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHUnAU0MyHM

[speedminded]

He thinks that the treadmill, rolling in reverse, can prevent a plane from moving forward. THAT is where he has an error in logic.

ohhh, so you mean those doubting should think about if the plane will actually move forward before debating how wings create lift and all that nonsense?

[Ruiner]

Killer - I'm a very educated man in terms of books, mathematics, theory, physics, etc. Please trust me when I tell you that it WILL move forward, gain speed, and eventually take off given a long enough runway.

[Ruiner]

ohhh, so you mean those doubting should think about if the plane will actually move forward before debating how wings create lift and all that nonsense?

Yes! If they can understand the concept that the plane WILL move forward no matter what the treadmill is doing, they can then logically draw the conclusion that forward movement will lead to acceleration. That acceleration will approach take-off speed and the plane is in the air...

[Ruiner]

I have lost faith in our education system.

[Killer]

Killer - I'm a very educated man in terms of books, mathematics, theory, physics, etc. Please trust me when I tell you that it WILL move forward, gain speed, and eventually take off given a long enough runway.

if it moves faster than the treadmill yeah... it will then just take longer for it to gain speed....

but theoretically putting it on a treadmill would cause it not to gain speed.... most are going to assume the treadmill and the plane are moving at the same speed, there for leaving the plane motionless.

obvious if i put a treadmill at it's slowest speed and i run faster than it.. i'm going to run off the treadmill.....

[speedminded]

if it moves faster than the treadmill yeah... it will then just take longer for it to gain speed....

but theoretically putting it on a treadmill would cause it not to gain speed.... most are going to assume the treadmill and the plane are moving at the same speed, there for leaving the plane motionless.

obvious if i put a treadmill at it's slowest speed and i run faster than it.. i'm going to run off the treadmill.....

The speed of the treadmill has no effect on the plane, it can be moving backwards 10 times or 100 times the forward speed of the plane and it still will not effect the forward motion of the plane.

What powers the plane, what makes it go forward?

[Killer]

The speed of the treadmill has no effect on the plane, it can be moving backwards 10 times or 100 times the forward speed of the plane and it still will not effect the forward motion of the plane.

What powers the plane, what makes it go forward?

yes it does.... how much forward motion do you generate while running on a treadmill???? 0

now strap some wheels to your feet... and add a jet engine to your anus..... set the treadmill speed to the same speed your engine creates.... how much forward motion do you generate.... 0...

[Ruiner]

if it moves faster than the treadmill yeah... it will then just take longer for it to gain speed....

but theoretically putting it on a treadmill would cause it not to gain speed.... most are going to assume the treadmill and the plane are moving at the same speed, there for leaving the plane motionless.

obvious if i put a treadmill at it's slowest speed and i run faster than it.. i'm going to run off the treadmill.....

A few things:

What I bolded breaks the problem's statement - The treadmill moves at the same SPEED as the plane. If the plane is motionless, the treadmill is as well.

Running on a treadmill and having a plane on a treadmill are two TOTALLY different things. You cannot compare the two. However, if you have rollerskates on the treadmill...

You still aren't getting it... Didn't you watch the movies that I posted?

[Ruiner]

yes it does.... how much forward motion do you generate while running on a treadmill???? 0

now strap some wheels to your feet... and add a jet engine to your anus..... set the treadmill speed to the same speed your engine creates.... how much forward motion do you generate.... 0...

Wrong. Just watch the videos. You are having a hard time grasping this. Free spinning wheels are just that - free spinning. The treadmill will just make them spin FASTER. The plane will still move forward, however.

[Ruiner]

Killer - ever had an advanced college physics theory class?

[DerrickT]

Wrong. Just watch the videos. You are having a hard time grasping this. Free spinning wheels are just that - free spinning. The treadmill will just make them spin FASTER. The plane will still move forward, however.

Its a rather simple idea. People are thinking way too far into this.

[Ruiner]

Its a rather simple idea. People are thinking way too far into this.

Actually, I'd reason that they do not have the logic skills to understand this question.

[speedminded]

yes it does.... how much forward motion do you generate while running on a treadmill???? 0

People are powered by their feet, generated by what is in contact with the surface. Planes are not powered by their wheels...

now strap some wheels to your feet... and add a jet engine to your anus..... set the treadmill speed to the same speed your engine creates.... how much forward motion do you generate.... 0...

Here you are on the right track -- if someone were on a treadmill on rollerskates and someone was behind them could they not keep them from rolling off the back with just one finger? Speed up the treadmill do you think it is any more difficult to hold them in the same place?

[Echonova]

Using the flatbed of a truck as the treadmill that moves in the opposite direction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHUnAU0MyHM

The flatbed one was dumb. To the plane the "ground" is still stationary no matter how fast they drive the truck. Our airports don't compensate for the earth's rotation do they? The first link explains it the best.

[DerrickT]

Actually, I'd reason that they do not have the logic skills to understand this question.

I was being "P.C." lol