Will the plane take off? v. Mythbusters!!! (VIDEO on Page 38)

[Wurm]

I got 20 on YES.

PM me for more info anyone that wants to bet on it.

im just betting ruiner just a small bet cause im kinda 40/60 is this theory lol

[d993s]

I'm lol'ing at you idiots who are saying it will take off. The ONLY reason a plane is able to lift off is because of the amount of air going under it's wing span. If it is on a tread mill, the plane is not moving against any air, it is technically rolling in place. Thus, there is no extra air going under the wings to lift the plane off of the ground.

I'll place a wager. If I'm wrong, ban me for a week or two.

Here are some sites for you dumbasses to read. I can't believe nobody else other than d993s and LS2 Kid understands the basic principles of flight.
http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/...irplane-t.html
http://www.howstuffworks.com/airplane.htm

Well said.
Young blonde kid owns many older ignorants on IA.
Nice! +1

[Maniaç]

Nope, it won't.

[BKgen®]

So then take off the wings and attach the jets or propellors to the body! It would then be driven by Craig Breedlove to 600+mph. Take off (in this instance) means off the ground.
Don't you get it? It needs air under it's wings, otherwise the only place it would go is straight, not up. It is NOT a helicopter or a Harrier Jet.

lol, i realize this. Trust me, growing up as a pilot's son, the last thing i need is a lesson about aerodynamics.

here's how the actual problem is worded:

Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?

Notice it says that the conveyor belt is the same size as a typical runway. SO, we know that if the plane were to move forward, there would be plenty of room for it to take off.

Now, i realize that you guys are saying the wheels will roll as the conveyor belt passes by. Well i'm not sure what kind of planes you guys are talking about, but i've never seen one powered by its wheels lol, so the wheels don't matter.

In that case, whether its a moving conveyor belt or a stationary runway, the jet's engines (or the plane's props) will push the plane forward at normal speed as if it were on a regular runway, causing it to get air under its wings.

kthxbye

[coolcat]

Here is a question for the people who say it will NOT lift off -

Do you think that the plane will move forward, relative to the ground? (not relative to the treadmill)

[d993s]

Here is a question for the people who say it will NOT lift off -

Do you think that the plane will move forward, relative to the ground?

If its engines have enough force to overcome the speed of the treadmill, then yes, of course.

[On_Her_Face]

lol, i realize this. Trust me, growing up as a pilot's son, the last thing i need is a lesson about aerodynamics.

here's how the actual problem is worded:



Notice it says that the conveyor belt is the same size as a typical runway. SO, we know that if the plane were to move forward, there would be plenty of room for it to take off.

Now, i realize that you guys are saying the wheels will roll as the conveyor belt passes by. Well i'm not sure what kind of planes you guys are talking about, but i've never seen one powered by its wheels lol, so the wheels don't matter.

In that case, whether its a moving conveyor belt or a stationary runway, the jet's engines (or the plane's props) will push the plane forward at normal speed as if it were on a regular runway, causing it to get air under its wings.

kthxbye

we will NEVER play forza together again.


wanna put a 1 million credit bet on this? loser give the other person 1 million credits on fm2?

[BKgen®]

we will NEVER play forza together again.


wanna put a 1 million credit bet on this? loser give the other person 1 million credits on fm2?

sure.

i could use a little extra cash.

[On_Her_Face]

sure.

i could use a little extra cash.

ok bet. but you cant when you lose

[coolcat]

If its engines have enough force to overcome the speed of the treadmill, then yes, of course.

It does not matter the speed of the conveyer belt, it is all about the energy transfer of the speed of the belt to the plane itself, the energy transfers VERY efficiently to the wheels, but VERY un-efficient at transferring energy from the wheels to the bearings to the plane itself. Since only a TINY TINY fraction of the energy of the belt is being transferred to the plane, the large amount of force from the propellers will overcome this small counter-force, the plane will move forward, and take off.

[BKgen®]

ok bet. but you cant when you lose

you seem so proud of your stupidity

[On_Her_Face]

you seem so proud of your stupidity

so your saying ur 100% sure it'll take off

[coolcat]

so your saying ur 100% sure it'll take off

Yes, it will take off.

[d993s]

It does not matter the speed of the conveyer belt, it is all about the energy transfer of the speed of the belt to the plane itself, the energy transfers VERY efficiently to the wheels, but VERY un-efficient at transferring energy from the wheels to the bearings to the plane itself. Since only a TINY TINY fraction of the energy of the belt is being transferred to the plane, the large amount of force from the propellers will overcome this small counter-force, the plane will move forward, and take off.

How?
So you're saying that the wings serve no purpose on a plane, right?

[BKgen®]

Yes, it will take off.

x2

[Jimmy B]

wow,.. 2 or 3 wagers.. i would put 50 bucks on it, but ruiner and i have the same theory..

[Ruiner]

how can it take off without lift? (aka the air flowing over/under thing wings?) which the air will not flow over the wings because the plane will not be moving in a forward motion if the belt is going the same speed as the plane.

Actually, the plane WILL move forward. Trust me on this...

[Ruiner]

ruiner i got 5 on NO

ill paypal if i lose

I'll take that bet. I'll paypal you if I am wrong as well.

[BTLFED]

I think it will take off.

[On_Her_Face]

ok lets say it will move forward, and its as long as a normal runway it will run out of room

[Ruiner]

Want an example of why the treadmill acting on the wheels will have NO effect?

Go into an airport...you know those moving walkways?

Pull the suitcase with wheels on the normal floor. Now, pull that same suitcase on the moving walkway (against the movement of the walkway).

Do you have to exert any extra force? Nope. You pull with the same force. The wheels of the suitcase on the treadmill, however, just spin faster.

[On_Her_Face]

thats true, but im still gonna stand by my first judgement

[On_Her_Face]

Want an example of why the treadmill acting on the wheels will have NO effect?

Go into an airport...you know those moving walkways?

Pull the suitcase with wheels on the normal floor. Now, pull that same suitcase on the moving walkway (against the movement of the walkway).

Do you have to exert any extra force? Nope. You pull with the same force. The wheels of the suitcase on the treadmill, however, just spin faster.

and u need more force (movement) to go forward, correct?

[Ruiner]

thats true, but im still gonna stand by my first judgement

Okay, here is another example...

Take a match-box car and a piece of paper. Put the match box car at one side of the paper and push it across. While the car is rolling, pull the paper back very fast.

The car that you pushed has free rolling wheels like a plane. You pushing it is like a jet's engine pushing through the air. The paper that you pull backwards, is like the treadmill.

Now, when you pull the paper back (pull it back slow, pull it back fast, it doesn't matter), does the car stop or does it keep moving forward?

Guess what, it keeps moving forward just like the plane will move on the treadmill.

[BKgen®]

thats true, but im still gonna stand by my first judgement

[Ruiner]

and u need more force (movement) to go forward, correct?

More force? Nope. Pull it with the SAME force.

A jet exerts force on the air which pushes it forward. The same with a prop plane as well.

Here is a good example of how the wheels aren't even really needed. They are only there to minimize the friction with the ground as they are free rolling...

Look, Ma, no wheels!

[On_Her_Face]

lol i'm still gonna stick with it

[On_Her_Face]

More force? Nope. Pull it with the SAME force.

A jet exerts force on the air which pushes it forward. The same with a prop plane as well.

Here is a good example of how the wheels aren't even really needed. They are only there to minimize the friction with the ground as they are free rolling...

Look, Ma, no wheels!

they are hidden and you sir are a lying bastard. lol

[coolcat]

How?
So you're saying that the wings serve no purpose on a plane, right?

PLEASE show me where I said this. I never said that, all I said is that the force of the propellers are what get the plane moving, the air passing over the wings is what makes it take off. Just because I didn't include that part doesnt mean I am implying it is not correct. That is like me saying that you are racist because you did not say "I like minorities" in your sentance. RACIST.

[Ruiner]

LS2_Kid, put your vote in!!!

[BKgen®]

LS2_Kid, put your vote in!!!

he's gonna wait until the show's over

[On_Her_Face]

LS2_Kid, put your vote in!!!

done.

[Wurm]

we will see.... the theory is sound but i have doubt in human error :P

better be one hell of a pilot and the mechanical be off by a little bit for all their calculations to actually work

[Frög]

hahahah wow to all those who said it wont take off!!

[d993s]

PLEASE show me where I said this. I never said that, all I said is that the force of the propellers are what get the plane moving, the air passing over the wings is what makes it take off. Just because I didn't include that part doesnt mean I am implying it is not correct. That is like me saying that you are racist because you did not say "I like minorities" in your sentance. RACIST.

Well you automatically (maybe unknowingly) assume this because it's a plane.
Not a helicopter. Not a Harrier jet. Not a space shuttle. Yes, it can move forward without wind under its wings. No, it will NOT take off (fly) without the necessary force of air under its wings.
The plane needs air UNDER it's wings, that's why I suggested it would work IF it had a 150+mph headwind, or IF you adjust the propellors/jet engines at a greater angle to allow takeoff.

[Ruiner]

Well you automatically (maybe unknowingly) assume this because it's a plane.
Not a helicopter. Not a Harrier jet. Not a space shuttle. Yes, it can move forward without wind under its wings. No, it will NOT take off (fly) without the necessary force of air under its wings.
The plane needs air UNDER it's wings, that's why I suggested it would work IF it had a 150+mph headwind, or IF you adjust the propellors/jet engines at a greater angle to allow takeoff.

Try the example with the match-box car that I said.

Trust me, the plane will move forward, accelerate, and eventually take off.

[On_Her_Face]

Try the example with the match-box car that I said.

Trust me, the plane will move forward, accelerate, and eventually take off.

but will it eventually take off in a run way's distance?

[Ruiner]

but will it eventually take off in a run way's distance?

Yessir. All it has to do is overcome the small friction in the wheels. Once that is done, the plane moves forward faster and faster.

[Jimmy B]

but will it eventually take off in a run way's distance?

no-where in the question that was posted, was satid how long the runway had to be..

[On_Her_Face]

no-where in the question that was posted, was satid how long the runway had to be..

ohh ya i forgot i can't ask questions without ur approval my bad