Will the plane take off? v. Mythbusters!!! (VIDEO on Page 38)

[Ruiner]

The show will air Jan 30th (Wednesday).

Here is a sneak peak:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBFQOfas60


It's official. We've battled this many times, but now we will know the answer coming up in December. Mythbusters is going to do a show on the internet question that involves the plane and the treadmill.

http://community.discovery.com/eve/f...5321919039/p/1


Now, we can do a few things with this:

1. I'm going to make a public poll.
2. Perhaps we should start taking bets on this? Ban bets? Money bets? etc.

Will the plane move forward and take off?

Question:

A plane is sitting on a long treadmill. The treadmill is linked to where it will match the speed of the plane, but in reverse. The wheels on the plane are free rolling. The plane will start its engines and try to take off like it normally would. The treadmill is as long as a normal runway. Will the plane be able to move forward on the treadmill and take off?

Get your answers in now. Vote up! Post your bets in here if you want as well. Good luck!

[Ruiner]

Speedmonkey, willing to put your money where your mouth is?

[ATLtech]

I ****ing can't wait.

[Mr. Clean]

I ****ing can't wait.

you have by far the gayest avatar on IA

[BKgen®]

oh dear God here we go again

[The Ren]

i say no

[BKgen®]

i say no

i did too...




...at first.

[antiv6]

i dont think so

[RandomGuy]

it will lift off... like the roller isn't even there... the wheels will be spinning super fast though, it'll probably warp the wheel bearings at that high heat, but yeah it'll lift off

its not driven by the wheels, the wheels are just there to lower friction between the plane and the ground.
Its the propeller or jet that is pushing the plane forward... it'll lift off in the exact same manner... (not in place) it'll just get pushed forward and forward until it reaches liftoff velocity and fly away(like the ducks in duck hunt that you dont shoot within 3 fires)

[d993s]

The plane will take off if it's a Harrier jet.

[Magnus213]

I need clarification on the situation. With respect to the ground (not the belt, the stationary ground) will the plane be moving or not?

I'm not sure if the belt is doubling the takeoff speed or merely matching it so that the plane is not moving relative to the ground.

[ATLtech]

The plain will Take off, if given enough runway.

[d993s]

Of couse the plane will NOT take off.
Think about it; it needs to be traveling fast enough to at least glide, so unless there just happens to be a 150+mph headwind that day, it will NOT take off.

[Jimmy B]

it will.. the jets push the AIR, not spin the wheels..

[Ruiner]

Wow, I can't wait until this show airs. With that said, do any of you "no, it won't take off" people want to make a wager?

[d993s]

Wow, I can't wait until this show airs. With that said, do any of you "no, it won't take off" people want to make a wager?

Given what circumstances will it take off? What type of plane? Adjusting the angle of the jets? Headwind?

Variables can make anything that seems impossible, possible. It all depends on the point you want to prove.

[On_Her_Face]

Given what circumstances will it take off? What type of plane? Adjusting the angle of the jets? Headwind?

Variables can make anything that seems impossible, possible. It all depends on the point you want to prove.

agreed. in my mind im picturing a 747, no modification to the jets and no win. with those variables the plane will not take off

[BKgen®]

agreed. in my mind im picturing a 747, no modification to the jets and no win. with those variables the plane will not take off

that would be a correct assumption... IF the 747 was powered by its wheels

[d993s]

that would be a correct assumption... IF the 747 was powered by its wheels

So then take off the wings and attach the jets or propellors to the body! It would then be driven by Craig Breedlove to 600+mph. Take off (in this instance) means off the ground.
Don't you get it? It needs air under it's wings, otherwise the only place it would go is straight, not up. It is NOT a helicopter or a Harrier Jet.

[coolcat]

If there were 0 friction on the wheel bearings, it would take off for sure, the wheels would just be going double the speed that the plane itself is actually going. Since there is friction in the real world situation I think it will make it more difficult to take off, but since it only needs to be going about 150 to take off, the wheels will be spinning 300mph, which they can probably withstand. It will take off.


Another thing you have to keep in mind is that the wheels are FREE ROLLING, there is no power being supplied to them, so no matter how fast they spin they will never affect the plane itself, except the small amount of friction it is creating. Planes take off using thrust from their turbines, not power to the wheels, the treadmill could be going 1000x faster than the plane is going, it just won't matter because the wheels are not making the plane take off, the propellers are.

[Ruiner]

If there were 0 friction on the wheel bearings, it would take off for sure, the wheels would just be going double the speed that the plane itself is actually going. Since there is friction in the real world situation I think it will make it more difficult to take off, but since it only needs to be going about 150 to take off, the wheels will be spinning 300mph, which they can probably withstand. It will take off.

Friction, while there, is still rather small in the grande scheme of things.

[On_Her_Face]

how can it take off without lift? (aka the air flowing over/under thing wings?) which the air will not flow over the wings because the plane will not be moving in a forward motion if the belt is going the same speed as the plane.

[ATLtech]

how can it take off without lift? (aka the air flowing over/under thing wings?) which the air will not flow over the wings because the plane will not be moving in a forward motion if the belt is going the same speed as the plane.

I guess that would be the better question. Can the plane gain forward momentum on the treadmill?

P.S. it can.

[On_Her_Face]

I guess that would be the better question. Can the plane gain forward momentum on the treadmill?

P.S. it can.

how if they are going the same speed?

[ATLtech]

how if they are going the same speed?

Because the plane engines are what push the vehicle, not the wheels. The only thing the wheels do is roll. So if the plane is going 90MPH, with the tread mill, they will just be spinning at 180MPH

[On_Her_Face]

Because the plane engines are what push the vehicle, not the wheels. The only thing the wheels do is roll. So if the plane is going 90MPH, with the tread mill, they will just be spinning at 180MPH

so a positive 90 mph v a negative 90 mph = positive 180 mph?

[Ruiner]

how can it take off without lift? (aka the air flowing over/under thing wings?) which the air will not flow over the wings because the plane will not be moving in a forward motion if the belt is going the same speed as the plane.

Actually, the plane WILL move forward. Trust me on this...

[Quattro Kid]

how can it take off without lift? (aka the air flowing over/under thing wings?) which the air will not flow over the wings because the plane will not be moving in a forward motion if the belt is going the same speed as the plane.

that right there sums it off, whoever said it isn't propelled by the wheels is an idiot, of course it isn't propelled by the wheels, it needs lift hence why the plane needs to be MOVING forward if the plane is stationary due to the treadmill matching its speed then there's no lift to make the plane take off

case solved

[speedminded]

that right there sums it off, whoever said it isn't propelled by the wheels is an idiot, of course it isn't propelled by the wheels, it needs lift hence why the plane needs to be MOVING forward if the plane is stationary due to the treadmill matching its speed then there's no lift to make the plane take off

case solved

So you're saying it won't take off?

[Ruiner]

that right there sums it off, whoever said it isn't propelled by the wheels is an idiot, of course it isn't propelled by the wheels, it needs lift hence why the plane needs to be MOVING forward if the plane is stationary due to the treadmill matching its speed then there's no lift to make the plane take off

case solved

Talk about a contradiction...

Read the bolded part...if the plane is stationary, then it has ZERO speed, right? Thus, if the plane has ZERO speed and the treadmill is matching it....what is the speed of the treadmill?

With that said, what you need to understand is that the treadmill CANNOT stop the plane from going forward. Are you familiar with the term "red herring"? The treadmill is a red herring that is meant to confuse you when in reality, it has no true effect on the plane.

[Andyc3020]

Talk about a contradiction...

Read the bolded part...if the plane is stationary, then it has ZERO speed, right? Thus, if the plane has ZERO speed and the treadmill is matching it....what is the speed of the treadmill?

With that said, what you need to understand is that the treadmill CANNOT stop the plane from going forward. Are you familiar with the term "red herring"? The treadmill is a red herring that is meant to confuse you when in reality, it has no true effect on the plane.

exactly! it would stop a car because the wheels are what pushes the vehicle forward, but a plane's props are what pushes it forward. its hard to explain.

[Killswitch Performance]

exactly! it would stop a car because the wheels are what pushes the vehicle forward, but a plane's props are what pushes it forward. its hard to explain.

No its not. You just did it.

Tyler

[d993s]

This thread is just like asking if my grandma can knock out Randy Couture; yes, if he was hog-tied and if my grandma had a bat.

[Black R]

why would it take off? the wind providing LIFT just won't be there..... or is this going to be in a wind tunnel or something?

[BKgen®]

Because the plane engines are what push the vehicle, not the wheels. The only thing the wheels do is roll. So if the plane is going 90MPH, with the tread mill, they will just be spinning at 180MPH

thank you

[coolcat]

To the people that think it will not take off, here is my best way of explaining it to you -

Imagine taking a plane, with the treadmill going VERY fast, much faster then the maximum speed of the plane, so we'll say 1000mph, now imagine taking the plane from a little bit over the treadmill and dropping it onto it, is the plane going to shoot back at 1000mph? No. It will gradually start rolling the direction of the treadmill, with the wheels spinning 1000mph. Now imagine that you tie down the wings of the plane while it is sitting here on the 1000mph treadmill, is it going to move? No, it will not because the wheels spin freely, no matter how fast the treadmill goes. The plane's engines are just like these ropes holding the plane down, only instead of just countering the force applied by the treadmill it pushes hard enough to cause the plane to over-counter the force pushing the plane backwards on the treadmill, therefor causing it to take off.

[Jecht]

I'm lol'ing at you idiots who are saying it will take off. The ONLY reason a plane is able to lift off is because of the amount of air going under it's wing span. If it is on a tread mill, the plane is not moving against any air, it is technically rolling in place. Thus, there is no extra air going under the wings to lift the plane off of the ground.

I'll place a wager. If I'm wrong, ban me for a week or two.

Here are some sites for you dumbasses to read. I can't believe nobody else other than d993s and LS2 Kid understands the basic principles of flight.
http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/...irplane-t.html
http://www.howstuffworks.com/airplane.htm

[d993s]

I'm lol'ing at you idiots who are saying it will take off. The ONLY reason a plane is able to lift off is because of the amount of air going under it's wing span. If it is on a tread mill, the plane is not moving against any air, it is technically rolling in place. Thus, there is no extra air going under the wings to lift the plane off of the ground.

I'll place a wager. If I'm wrong, ban me for a week or two.

Here are some sites for you dumbasses to read. I can't believe nobody else other than d993s and LS2 Kid understands the basic principles of flight.
http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/...irplane-t.html
http://www.howstuffworks.com/airplane.htm

Well said.
Young blonde kid owns many older ignorants on IA.
Nice! +1

[Wurm]

ruiner i got 5 on NO

ill paypal if i lose

[coolcat]

ruiner i got 5 on NO

ill paypal if i lose

I got 20 on YES.

PM me for more info anyone that wants to bet on it.