FUCK YEAH!!! GREAT POST!!! AND THIS IS THE KINDA RESPONSES I WANTED TO SEE... I AM HEADING TO BG FOR NOS AND TO TALK ABOUT HONDATA TUNING AND I WILL REPLY TO THIS TONIGHT!!! +1 FOR NOT JUST SAYING "turbos rock" or some dumb shit. LOL.
FUCK YEAH!!! GREAT POST!!! AND THIS IS THE KINDA RESPONSES I WANTED TO SEE... I AM HEADING TO BG FOR NOS AND TO TALK ABOUT HONDATA TUNING AND I WILL REPLY TO THIS TONIGHT!!! +1 FOR NOT JUST SAYING "turbos rock" or some dumb shit. LOL.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
in a couple of weeks to a month or so you can ad me to the 12:1 cr daily driven guys if I can get my money rightOriginally Posted by BABY J
The more I think about it, the more I see your right. Not many people actually know that.Actually every1 DOESN'T know that.want proof, make a poll ON THIS SITE (full of "car guys") and see what people guess. You'd be surprised. Hardly NE1 runs that high compression, so no1 really has that knowledge in their head.
haha I agree - I wouldn't say turbo's rock, they have their downside
but hm, it does take some engineering prowess ( measurements more than anything else of wheels and housings, etc etc etc ) to have a proper setup - I guess when it comes down to it, BOTH have the same amount of R&D into them depending on the owner
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I think there is a big misconception from the masses that because it's so prolific in the magazines and the car media to see an FI car that it's just a simple bolt up a turbo and that's it. It is far from that, although there are so many off the shelf "kits" available for soooo many cars now it truly is easy to do, as long as you keep it within the intended limits.
See, a lot of these young bucks think that they can get an Ebay kit and merely "turn up the boost" because they "know" that their B16 block is going to hold 25psi...... They may have seen their buddy's SLEEVED and BUILT motor hold that much boost, but the limits of both the "kit" and the stock motor may be different. Then when they sling a rod or a piston thru the side of the block, they blame the TURBO KIT instead of their own stupidity for the failure.
Every single component has it's limitations and it's range where they're efficient. That includes N/A components too. The beauty of N/A components is that IF done correctly, the majority of the consumers will NOT supercede the ability of those types of components. In other words, a cam or valves or retainers or flowed head will put out X amount, period. You can't turn "up" anything on them to supercede their max output. You can overrev a motor and blow them up, but 90% of the time as long as you don't act like a dumb ass and it was installed correctly......some ying yang can't just turn up a dial and screw it all up. The motor will rev to X, the internals will spin to X, and the car will put out Y. The real hard part is figuring out the combination of those internal components to make it put out as much Y as possible.
With boost, it is easier to turn it "up", but it's also easier to screw things up if you don't do it correctly.
Both sides have their pros and cons IMO.
I understand that. But most turbo guys don't deal with detonation because of compression ratios. Most factory turbo cars are setup fine to turn up the wick a little bit safely without detonation. Then throw more fuel at it.
NA tuning is a little harder with 20894 to 1 compression. And whoever had the 14.5 cr car, there are more cost effective and eaiser ways to make power. Race gas all the time to run what like 13s all motor?
when u got the money for it why not? who here that would have the funds make a monster ass car to just spank anyone that wanted some. ur right he did run in the 13's cause he kept snapping axles on the track.
turbos rock asshole LOL
if he kept snapping axles at the track he didnt build it up enough or right - which results in a waste of money lol
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+1. Yeah. Guys kill me w/ that... "I spun 1st through 4th, I would have won if it wasn't for that!" LOL. :jerkit: That is a poorly engineered setup any way you slice it, or an overly agressive driver... either way, YOU LOST so what's the point? LOL
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Its funny how alot people would just put a Turbo kit on their car without thinking anything out... Alot does go into a build.. Both N/A and Boost..
Even if you don't have the Money to build a Monster...You could think of ways to be faster...Examples: Lighter car, Different gearing, Better tires, Your driving skills, Etc..... I myself own a Boosted car and a N/A car... One of the first things I think about is putting power to the Ground.. I like all around Power for the most part so Big Boost in my 240 would be no fun... It would make BIG power yes but only good for the nothing... I like driving my cars daily..... With N/A you can be fast and I think we have people to prove this.. You have to have a Plan.. Its this a street car ? Are you going to drive it Daily ?...Is it your only car ? Etc... Alot goes into anybuild and I would take ether one.. You have to find a Happy Meduim.... For the most part people don't have a clue what it takes to make power and the rely on The internet or other people to copy off of.. Not saying its a bad thing because we all need help... You just can't expect your car to be what HIS is... Anyways IMO.. I see just as much in both N/A and Boost Monsters... Theres alot more to just bolting on parts And I hope poeple will understand this...
on my black car I could have my tires spinnging up into 3rd gear pinned @ 6k - why? loss of traction? why? hard ass not sticky at all tires that lasted foreverwasn't so much the setup as what came on the car when I bought it... plus I enjoyed the ease of peeling out and not loosing rubber
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Its funny how alot people would just put a Turbo kit on their car without thinking anything out... Alot does go into a build.. Both N/A and Boost..
Even if you don't have the Money to build a Monster...You could think of ways to be faster...Examples: Lighter car, Different gearing, Better tires, Your driving skills, Etc..... I myself own a Boosted car and a N/A car... One of the first things I think about is putting power to the Ground.. I like all around Power for the most part so Big Boost in my 240 would be no fun... It would make BIG power yes but only good for the nothing... I like driving my cars daily...
true, true
but on the turbo kit part - thats mostly the N/A crowd going turbo ( talking general here )
but generally speaking, people who buy an FI car already ( like me, 1439/2000, or ppl who swap to an FI engine ) - they build their own setup piece by piece
IMO, I think the largest plus about an FI over an N/A is that FI is adjustable by boost setting ( i.e drive @ 15psi everyday, go to the track/dyno, crank up to 25psi, rip off some nice 1/4s or HP #s, then turn it back down ) whereas N/A, you're stuck with what you got - which could result in a faster wear down on engine components
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because axles broke its not built right ? please explain.
also please remember people buy and work on their cars they way they want to. did i agree with him to have such a setup ? who cares its his money so fcuk it.
U want a "fuse" in the driveline... and axles is the cheapest driveline part to replace... but still you should not be snapping them every run.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
i wouldnt say its a poorly engineered setup. reason is some people need to test out different suspension, tire materials, tire sizes, boost levels in different gears, etc,etc, etc to see what works and what dont work. the people who dont know about that needs help from experienced people.
but yeah if you loose, you loose.
94 Supra= 500rwhp
this is what i was trying to say earlierTheres alot more to just bolting on parts And I hope poeple will understand this...
94 Supra= 500rwhp
Yes this is true and most of the BIG money cars have Adjustable Clutchs... They PreSet each one to slip so much.... I have broke alot of them and none of my Hondas have had big power... You learn alot over time and now I could keep a set alot longer...
They are alot cheaper than a Tranny or even a Diff.
How true you are... If only People knew how important it was to gear your car for your HP curve... So much goes in to this... I myself would rather start low in HP and then go up working on Different ways to keep the power on the ground... You can have 1000 Hp But if it don't stick it don't make since..
Yes this is true and most of the BIG money cars have Adjustable Clutchs... They PreSet each one to slip so much.... I have broke alot of them and none of my Hondas have had big power... You learn alot over time and now I could keep a set alot longer...
They are alot cheaper than a Tranny or even a Diff.
What kinda honda do you drive? one with a V8? Adjustable Clutchs?
Hmm.. we all have twin disck clutchs none are adjustable the pedal is tough!!
Well I was not meaning on a Street car....I mean't the Dragsters or funny cars and shit like that... The cars with a Power Glid...
i think you have to look at EVERY seperate case on its own. like my d17 aint shit until i slap a turbo on it. any d seires almost. and if you get the whole TODA kit for the k20 then you can throw down alot of N/a power. it depends on the specific application. i am working on putting together a turbo setup for my car. but i won't say one way or the other. it all depends on what you want. all of it. 1/4 mile times are made eaiser for boosted motors, but in autocross and such it could be a problem.
i think if N/a setups are done right they can be better then boosted setups. i mean for example, you have the WRX and the RSX-R. both have the same HP rating but the WRX is turboed. on one side, you have to wait for the revs to climb about 5k RPMS and up for the type R.(idk when the vtec crossover is on the type R but lets use 5krpms as an example.) after that its all gravy, cause its in its "sweet spot"
the WRX will have boost lag. not alot but some. its awd. so there is more drivetrain loss, and that does matter. it relys on the turbo for all the power, and if anything happens to it then the car is useless.
i think everything has advantages and disadvantages. and i think its all personal preference.
Dude....What you just said was retarded. Im just now joining this debate. Ur analogy to the rsx and the wrx is also retarded. First...the wrx doesnt have a huge turbo factory. They're rated in the mid 200's in horsepower aswell. You will have some power loss in the drivetrain BUT you make up for it with traction. With the RSX you have the k20. They are rated at like 220 to the flywheel? maybe 200. The race wont be one sided either way but ur examples suck. The WRX will pull hard on the RSX from launch but top end it will lack due to awd. My take on it is that either way you go it requires alot of engineering. Boosting, you have to take into consideration of natural wear and tear just as you do with NA. If you wanna push big boost you HAVE to have some kind of upgraded bottom end... or you motor wont last long. NA..you do aswell because you cant rev that high and not expect to have valve float or to spin a bearing. Either way their both hard. Tho to pull alot of power out of a NA you gotta do crazy shit, instead of burning up boost or bolting on a larger DP =P Oh and just to point out more of your mistakes...Yes the fastest 1320 times are boosted...but there are till sub 10sec NA cares... look at skunk2 RSX. Oh...and "Slapping in a TODA stroker kit to make big NA power" was retarded to. You can make just as much doing your own set-up. Anyways...im probably wrong on some of this shit but fuck it.
VATTAC FOR THE MOTHERFUCKING WIN!
oh wait, I drive a mitsu
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ok, you said it alot better. it was my take on it. yours is about the same.
N/A all the way
New car:
95 S14 with RB25DET (stock boost)
Old car:
Turbo S2000 400hp/285tq on 9:1 comp & 11psi
overall take maybe....
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