BOOST VS N/A DEBATE: ROUND 1

[Hondatwin23]

yea dude was crazy and i was just the same to help him built such a thing.
H23 vtec with 14:5 cr. crazy but fun a hell to drive. did i mention it was in a eg coupe.

[BABY J]

scroll up, "heat" was my 4th arrow "-->". But it prolly deserves to be up higher in the list.

[93H22ACX]

I dont think anyone can just put a big turbo on make huge power...i mean you can but u might not be too fast LOL. It depends on efficient the motor build up is also. And its not really about peak power in turbo applications...its both with a usable powerband. meaning... having a broad power band and dropping into it during an upshift. Unless you go with a huge turbo and a huge shot of nitrous then thats another story.

I can say that with a 187whp my hatch has ran 12's and i know it takes a little bit more power for a turbo car but..... its because of weigh differences.

all motor cars cant be faster than a turbo car if both are the same wight, same driver, same power output (if the power band is usuable as i mentioned above).

Reason being, the turbo car will have more torque, and torque + hp should move the car faster than an NA car IMO.

Its just as hard to get a turbo car to go fast because you have to get parts that work well with ur motor...sure its easy to get peak power but to get parts that give u a good power band + peak power is hard.

NA, its the same way but cost more to make power. I like turbo cause power to $$ wise, its a better result.

But only way to find out is to race a turbo and na car with same hp and weight.

now i know you guys might be thinking.. look at clutch masters cars...its only making around 300whp and running 9's compare to a turbo car making 650+whp running 9's. but you have to think about the weight difference beteween the two, especially chassis wise.

[BABY J]

I disagree. When I raced the guys w/ the Power Tech Imports boosted Spec Vs in my Spec, I'd wax them. And also, 1 of them for SURE had 264 wheel compared to my 248 wheel. The others only had me by a couple of WHP.

[93H22ACX]

I disagree. When I raced the guys w/ the Power Tech Imports boosted Spec Vs in my Spec, I'd wax them. And also, 1 of them for SURE had 264 wheel compared to my 248 wheel. The others only had me by a couple of WHP.

did those guys know how to drive? and how was the race? roll, stop, freeway, how far was the race?

Just because you beat a car doesnt mean that that is how it will be all the time.

look at it this way...

nitrous in way is like an all motor setup.... compare it to both me and my buddy with a 3150lb prelude.

i had a prelude with a drag kit at 6psi vs my buddies prelude with a 55 shot of nitrous.

yeah he beat me from a stop but we only raced to 3rd gear. but, on the freeway and track wise, i would spank that ass...... i am sure it was around the same hp also.

so it depends on how far of a distance. like i said..

ONLY way to find out is to actually get a race and have the same driver drive it...thats the only way to find out

[BABY J]

I will assume that they were/are as competent as me. W/ short gears (6 speed) maybe the Spec V is not the best choice for boost, but the PTI turbo spools crazy fast... so I dunno. I do know that most of the guys w/ the kit were laying down from 240 - 265 wheel depending on other supporting mods and tuning... and that was at Denver altitude even. I am sure if we went all out that the boosted Spec Vs would walk me up top (qr25 claim to fame is torque, not revs). But mine is limited to 7500 and stock is 6700). The PTI guys' piggy back still doesn't mod the factory rev limit of 6700 so you may be on to something... actually my wins may be based on what VTECKID said as far as not having to shift as soon/often as those guys. I have done pulls at almost every RPM and pulled those boosted Specs, but of course we cut the fun just like every1 else does once you prove your point.

[93H22ACX]

i see... good thread though....

[SPOOLIN]

I know that when i had 450hp, and josh green had his 202whp all motor. when i put it in 3rd and we went, he jumped like 2 cars, but then, yes then, i raped that ass. but that is a big power contrast. all motor has its fun but when it comes to drag racing. Im siding of course with FI. Turbo lag is bullshit. Yeah it might lag, in first gear. but after that its BAM BAM BAM

[BABY J]

I know that when i had 450hp, and josh green had his 202whp all motor. when i put it in 3rd and we went, he jumped like 2 cars, but then, yes then, i raped that ass. but that is a big power contrast. all motor has its fun but when it comes to drag racing. Im siding of course with FI. Turbo lag is bullshit. Yeah it might lag, in first gear. but after that its BAM BAM BAM

Fuck you Puto!! Showoff!!! LOL. I got somethin coming... stay tuned.

[Vteckidd]

I know that when i had 450hp, and josh green had his 202whp all motor. when i put it in 3rd and we went, he jumped like 2 cars, but then, yes then, i raped that ass. but that is a big power contrast. all motor has its fun but when it comes to drag racing. Im siding of course with FI. Turbo lag is bullshit. Yeah it might lag, in first gear. but after that its BAM BAM BAM

thats also a HIGHWAY race. Highway will go to the turbo car, they got higher trap speeds.

Take a 240whp 1800lb CRX vs a 500whp EK Hatch

At the track where both use slicks, it would be a good race, but i think the EK would win. On the street the NA car will destroy the boosted car from a dig because of traction, on the highway the turbo car ownz.

[93H22ACX]

thats also a HIGHWAY race. Highway will go to the turbo car, they got higher trap speeds.

Take a 240whp 1800lb CRX vs a 500whp EK Hatch

At the track where both use slicks, it would be a good race, but i think the EK would win. On the street the NA car will destroy the boosted car from a dig because of traction, on the highway the turbo car ownz.

yeah thats what im saying LOL. wassup mike where u be at

[B18c1Turboed]

thats also a HIGHWAY race. Highway will go to the turbo car, they got higher trap speeds.

Take a 240whp 1800lb CRX vs a 500whp EK Hatch

At the track where both use slicks, it would be a good race, but i think the EK would win. On the street the NA car will destroy the boosted car from a dig because of traction, on the highway the turbo car ownz.

When ever you want test that theory out let me know!!! U know where to find me!!

[Vteckidd]

When ever you want test that theory out let me know!!! U know where to find me!!

RIght now the only car we can test is my 108hp CRX SI vs your minivan. so.....



but i would put $500 on my new motor vs your old gsr

[Hondatwin23]

i smell a race brewing !

[BABY J]

No point in calling out Mike yet... he's not ready. But every1 knows he's good for it, so there's no point to prove just yet. Take ya time, dial it in Mike. Every1 will get their shot at you... including me.

[B18c1Turboed]

No point in calling out Mike yet... he's not ready. But every1 knows he's good for it, so there's no point to prove just yet. Take ya time, dial it in Mike. Every1 will get their shot at you... including me.

Yea i guess there is no point since Mike only street races, I never saw his HIGHEST HP CAR IN GA at any tracks or show any numbers track wise.

Anybody can street race, all you have to do is drop a gear and floor it. the real racers prove it at the tracks!!

[BABY J]

Yea i guess there is no point since Mike only street races, I never saw his HIGHEST HP CAR IN GA at any tracks or show any numbers track wise.

Outside of Tom @ Acura/Honda and a few other SSIDE peeps no1 has seen my 95 Si (DOHC), and only a handful have seen my Spec V. Most have seen my EF and my 92 Si (SOHC). There is a reason for that. I'm not on his (MIkes) nuts, but I know that I have PLENTY of secrets and I sandbag a LOT too. Everything is not what it seems, just a thought. The Carolina Dragway kats prolly have seen ALL of my cars, that's where I tune. Some people like to showcase, and some do not. But I do think Mike needs to lay it all to rest w/ a track run this time... but at the same time, if he's like me he likes to keep 'em guessing.

Anybody can street race, all you have to do is drop a gear and floor it. the real racers prove it at the tracks!!

SWING -->AND A MISS!!!! Both take skill... you VHT gurus have a lot to learn about launching on the street... it takes LOTS of skill to launch on the street repsectively. And it ALSO takes a lot of skill to tree at the track, and launch on a prepped surface. Most people are great at one, and only good at the other. VERY few people are the shit at both b/c they are exact opposites.

[B18c1Turboed]

[QUOTE=BABY J]Outside of Tom @ Acura/Honda and a few other SSIDE peeps no1 has seen my 95 Si (DOHC), and only a handful have seen my Spec V. Most have seen my EF and my 92 Si (SOHC). There is a reason for that. I'm not on his (MIkes) nuts, but I know that I have PLENTY of secrets and I sandbag a LOT too. Everything is not what it seems, just a thought. The Carolina Dragway kats prolly have seen ALL of my cars, that's where I tune. Some people like to showcase, and some do not. But I do think Mike needs to lay it all to rest w/ a track run this time... but at the same time, if he's like me he likes to keep 'em guessing.[QUOTE]



LIKE TI says BRING IT OUT!!! Dont be scared, you dont have to go too another state to test and tune.I mean come on thats funny by itself!!

Dont matter how many secrets you have up your sleeve, if u cant bring it out and show anyone its pointless. I have a ferrari i never drive it becasue i have secrets up my sleeve for it also!!!

[BABY J]

LIKE TI says BRING IT OUT!!! Dont be scared, you dont have to go too another state to test and tune. I mean come on thats funny by itself!! Dont matter how many secrets you have up your sleeve, if u cant bring it out and show anyone its pointless. I have a ferrari i never drive it becasue i have secrets up my sleeve for it also!!!

And this is proof that we race/tune for different reasons...

1) I was stationed at Shaw AFB for my last 3 years in the Air Force, I have came to love/know that track (Carolina Dragway).

** not to mention, times that show up on that board do not end up on IA before you are ready for them to, even though a lot of members of IA are there... those guys respect "test and tune" for what it is.

2) It's really a short drive, and I can run as much as I want w/out waiting in line

3) I have no need to "show-off" for the masses. Actually when I had my first few fast projects that's what I did. I am past that stage. I tune b/c I enjoy it... and as long as I enjoy it, that's all that matters. But whooping up on kats on the street is fun too, don't get me wrong.

4) As far as showing NE1, there are a few select people on (and off) the board to vouch for my projects. I literally have 2 more projects (finishing the EF, and a Datsun 510) and then I am outta the game anyway. It's been a good time though, and I will always keep 1 or 2 decent projects in the stable. I will find another stupid place to waste a lotta money... LOL.

[Vteckidd]

Danny knows im just fucking with him.

hes right, im not a track racer, i never have been, i dont have the money to be competitive an it just doesnt interest me.

i love you danny

[93H22ACX]

Danny knows im just fucking with him.

hes right, im not a track racer, i never have been, i dont have the money to be competitive an it just doesnt interest me.

i love you danny

mike...thats why you said i can run yours at NDRA right

[Vteckidd]

actually yeah, i told Bee that he could drive it, cause i didnt want to break anything on it LOL.

but that motor is LONG gone. DO i regret selling it, no, do i regret not getting a track time on it, yes. It was fast, but only i know that, no one will ever know how fast it really was because only i drove it.

oh well, such is life.

[Stormhammer]

now you guys are talking about traction - if a turbo car loses traction, its because the driver fucking sucks

[B18c1Turboed]

now you guys are talking about traction - if a turbo car loses traction, its because the driver fucking sucks

DING D ING DING!
The way you control traction in a turbo car, Turn the BOOST DOWN!!!!

Thats what i do, but i guess haveing a 4 stage boost controller helps alot too!!!!

[93H22ACX]

DING D ING DING!
The way you control traction in a turbo car, Turn the BOOST DOWN!!!!

Thats what i do, but i guess haveing a 4 stage boost controller helps alot too!!!!

not really... i mean even if you turn the boost down it'll still have traction issues unless its real low. if thats the case, then no point of being turbo.

even all motor cars have traction issues

[B18c1Turboed]

not really... i mean even if you turn the boost down it'll still have traction issues unless its real low. if thats the case, then no point of being turbo

Shut up son! Go to your room and think about talking back to your daddy like that!!!

[93H22ACX]

Shut up son! Go to your room and think about talking back to your daddy like that!!!

HAHAHHA :holds hand up right hand and bitch slap left check of danny: ahahahah

LOL

[Vteckidd]

not true at all, wtf are you smoking, Turbo car on street tires or my NA car spun through 3rd, it wasnt cause i was a "shitty driver"

[BABY J]

not true at all, wtf are you smoking, Turbo car on street tires or my NA car spun through 3rd, it wasnt cause i was a "shitty driver"

Uh huh!! You know you suck! All of your friends told me so! But it's a secret, and I told them that I'd never tell you.

[The Golden Child]

bitch i have a 1324986384713712372193 hp car that is in the basement and spank all you punks ..






j.k.

[TIGERJC]

Na all day long, I really want a k series swap civic.

[The Golden Child]

Na all day long, I really want a k series swap civic.

turbo k or na k ??

[TIGERJC]

na k

[BABY J]

^^ I agree. But I know a few Team Rush (Columbia, SC) guys that do it. They own a few hundred nail salons, so they got the loot for crap like that. Must be nice.

[Ludester]

^^ I agree. But I know a few Team Rush (Columbia, SC) guys that do it. They own a few hundred nail salons, so they got the loot for crap like that. Must be nice.

in a couple of weeks to a month or so you can ad me to the 12:1 cr daily driven guys if I can get my money right

[BABY J]

FUCK YEAH!!! GREAT POST!!! AND THIS IS THE KINDA RESPONSES I WANTED TO SEE... I AM HEADING TO BG FOR NOS AND TO TALK ABOUT HONDATA TUNING AND I WILL REPLY TO THIS TONIGHT!!! +1 FOR NOT JUST SAYING "turbos rock" or some dumb shit. LOL.

[Stormhammer]

FUCK YEAH!!! GREAT POST!!! AND THIS IS THE KINDA RESPONSES I WANTED TO SEE... I AM HEADING TO BG FOR NOS AND TO TALK ABOUT HONDATA TUNING AND I WILL REPLY TO THIS TONIGHT!!! +1 FOR NOT JUST SAYING "turbos rock" or some dumb shit. LOL.

haha I agree - I wouldn't say turbo's rock, they have their downside

but hm, it does take some engineering prowess ( measurements more than anything else of wheels and housings, etc etc etc ) to have a proper setup - I guess when it comes down to it, BOTH have the same amount of R&D into them depending on the owner

[Jaimecbr900]

I think there is a big misconception from the masses that because it's so prolific in the magazines and the car media to see an FI car that it's just a simple bolt up a turbo and that's it. It is far from that, although there are so many off the shelf "kits" available for soooo many cars now it truly is easy to do, as long as you keep it within the intended limits.

See, a lot of these young bucks think that they can get an Ebay kit and merely "turn up the boost" because they "know" that their B16 block is going to hold 25psi..... . They may have seen their buddy's SLEEVED and BUILT motor hold that much boost, but the limits of both the "kit" and the stock motor may be different. Then when they sling a rod or a piston thru the side of the block, they blame the TURBO KIT instead of their own stupidity for the failure.

Every single component has it's limitations and it's range where they're efficient. That includes N/A components too. The beauty of N/A components is that IF done correctly, the majority of the consumers will NOT supercede the ability of those types of components. In other words, a cam or valves or retainers or flowed head will put out X amount, period. You can't turn "up" anything on them to supercede their max output. You can overrev a motor and blow them up, but 90% of the time as long as you don't act like a dumb ass and it was installed correctly......some ying yang can't just turn up a dial and screw it all up. The motor will rev to X, the internals will spin to X, and the car will put out Y. The real hard part is figuring out the combination of those internal components to make it put out as much Y as possible.

With boost, it is easier to turn it "up", but it's also easier to screw things up if you don't do it correctly.

Both sides have their pros and cons IMO.

[Tank]

FUCK YEAH!!! GREAT POST!!! AND THIS IS THE KINDA RESPONSES I WANTED TO SEE... I AM HEADING TO BG FOR NOS AND TO TALK ABOUT HONDATA TUNING AND I WILL REPLY TO THIS TONIGHT!!! +1 FOR NOT JUST SAYING "turbos rock" or some dumb shit. LOL.

turbos rock asshole LOL

[Hondatwin23]

when u got the money for it why not? who here that would have the funds make a monster ass car to just spank anyone that wanted some. ur right he did run in the 13's cause he kept snapping axles on the track.