cantilever count

**B_Hoov** · 10-17-2008, 12:25 AM

okay so after carefully studying this pic i have decided that it's possible, this set-up has been ran on F1 formula cars for YEARS, the pic however is not a well engineered set-up, i plan on taking the basic design and taking it to the next level using better stronger materials that are lighter and probably less expensive, in the end the TOTAL cost for parts/labor should be no more than a good set of coilovers, im not talking about egay sleeves, im talking skunk 2 type c's, tein SS, and koni's but they will respond better,faster,and are more adaptable than any of the ones mentioned, i will be using my hatch as the test dummy to see what works best etc...you will be able to choose or make up your own spring rate according to the ride and performance you would like, the bodies i will be using are almost identical to the ones pictured with remote resi's dampening and rebound adjustable (ones shown in pics are NOT), and i will also need to know how much of a drop your wanting, keep in mind these will go up or down about an inch from where you tell me so there is some wiggle room if there needs to be. since nobody makes a kit i will be making them myself, if you decide you want a set thats great but i will not make several sets of them to sit on my shelf, i will however keep very detailed notes and measurements when making mine and will make them per order after a deposit has been made, again...these will handle better, be more responsive and tunable than a set of equally priced coilovers, thinking it's going to be around 1200 for EVERYTHING, you drop the car off, pick it up 1-2 days later and its done, this is only for the rear as of now, im working on engineering a kit for the front that allows both hood and motor clearance but were not going to get into that right now...whole other story... but on a serious note this is not something you see everyday and would surely turn some heads! i need a rough number of ppl that would be interested in this set-up so please add your name to the list accordingly. any and all questions can be posted in this thread as well. anyone i have done work for will vouch for me!

B-Hoov

**The BUCKY** · 10-17-2008, 12:30 AM

i would like to do it using my existing coilovers. could that work.

**uproot** · 10-17-2008, 12:35 AM

only question - if someone doesn't have a drop at all and they wanted this, they'd still have to buy a set of springs/coilovers to get the front dropped too right?

cool idea though

**B_Hoov** · 10-17-2008, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by The BUCKY

i would like to do it using my existing coilovers. could that work.

depends on how long they are overall...i could if they were short enough

Originally Posted by uproot

only question - if someone doesn't have a drop at all and they wanted this, they'd still have to buy a set of springs/coilovers to get the front dropped too right?

cool idea though

yes they would, until i figure the front out

**slow_hatch** · 10-17-2008, 12:42 AM

Bruce, I love the idea and look but unfortunately right now I have a very good set of coilovers and shocks already on my car. Also since I'm considering entering my car into some time attack events, inboard suspension setups automatically bump you into unlimited territory. GL with this though, i know your set will be straight ballin too.

**B_Hoov** · 10-17-2008, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by slow_hatch

Bruce, I love the idea and look but unfortunately right now I have a very good set of coilovers and shocks already on my car. Also since I'm considering entering my car into some time attack events, inboard suspension setups automatically bump you into unlimited territory. GL with this though, i know your set will be straight ballin too.

your right on the inboard coils...i forgot to mention that in my OP, they will bump you into unlimited class with the ridiculous cars that have factory sponsorships and what not! and yes sir...

ballin is the name of the game

**cwhiteboy** · 10-17-2008, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by slow_hatch

inboard suspension setups automatically bump you into unlimited territory.

x2

But cool idea anyway.

**SLOWR/T** · 10-17-2008, 05:56 PM

You know im in.

**green91** · 10-17-2008, 06:05 PM

That particular guy said he had about $250 in his setup using CBR600rr rear shocks. Honestly doesnt look that hard to do! It would definitely solve alot of problems with suspension travel etc that hondas have. (AKA FUCK extended tophats

)

Oh yeah heres something more to think about:

**southside** · 10-17-2008, 06:36 PM

What would be the pros and cons of this setup?Looks like a interesting idea but really dont see how it works....Yes im a lil slow as you can see.

**SLOWR/T** · 10-18-2008, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by green91

That particular guy said he had about $250 in his setup using CBR600rr rear shocks. Honestly doesnt look that hard to do! It would definitely solve alot of problems with suspension travel etc that hondas have. (AKA FUCK extended tophats

)

Oh yeah heres something more to think about:

Thats PIMP!

B_Hoov????

**EvasiveEF9** · 10-19-2008, 12:35 PM

Yeah, awesome idea for show and stuff, but as far as functionality, what's the benefit of this setup over just the economical way we've been doing it for so many years?

**green91** · 10-20-2008, 08:50 AM

Shock travel man. unless you have shortened struts on an EF, by the time they are lowered you have very little shock travel left.

**sakasaku** · 10-20-2008, 10:00 AM

if i had the money you bet i do it!

**EvasiveEF9** · 10-20-2008, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by green91

Shock travel man. unless you have shortened struts on an EF, by the time they are lowered you have very little shock travel left.

That's why stiffer springs and aftermarket struts are required. I ran Skunk2's with KYB AGX struts and was one of the best handlers (if not THE best with a better driver) up in the mountains. I RARELY touched the limits of the car. Not to rain on your parade, because I really do want to see the benefit of your setup, but I just would rather spend my 700$ on that setup, and spend the rest in a disc swap, SS lines, booster/MC and bushings as opposed to 1200 to change the geometry of a suspension setup in one of these cars.

Respectfully, please slap me in the face if I'm not seeing something that makes it so much better. Again, not looking to rain on your parade, just debating.

**Black R** · 10-24-2008, 04:36 PM

if you can do some fab work, I'd like a shorter front knuckle instead - that would solve my problems.

**NAIZBST** · 10-24-2008, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Black R

if you can do some fab work, I'd like a shorter front knuckle instead - that would solve my problems.

it's not an old vw bug ken

**green91** · 10-25-2008, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

That's why stiffer springs and aftermarket struts are required. I ran Skunk2's with KYB AGX struts and was one of the best handlers (if not THE best with a better driver) up in the mountains. I RARELY touched the limits of the car. Not to rain on your parade, because I really do want to see the benefit of your setup, but I just would rather spend my 700$ on that setup, and spend the rest in a disc swap, SS lines, booster/MC and bushings as opposed to 1200 to change the geometry of a suspension setup in one of these cars.

Respectfully, please slap me in the face if I'm not seeing something that makes it so much better. Again, not looking to rain on your parade, just debating.

Ok well since it worked well for you i guess theres no point in ever using any other suspension setup

**slow_hatch** · 10-25-2008, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by EvasiveEF9

That's why stiffer springs and aftermarket struts are required. I ran Skunk2's with KYB AGX struts and was one of the best handlers (if not THE best with a better driver) up in the mountains. I RARELY touched the limits of the car. Not to rain on your parade, because I really do want to see the benefit of your setup, but I just would rather spend my 700$ on that setup, and spend the rest in a disc swap, SS lines, booster/MC and bushings as opposed to 1200 to change the geometry of a suspension setup in one of these cars.

Respectfully, please slap me in the face if I'm not seeing something that makes it so much better. Again, not looking to rain on your parade, just debating.

You can't compare your BASIC street setup to one that would see huge benefits on a racetrack. Mtns and an actual race track are totally different.(BTW skunk2 and AGXs is NOT one of the best setups) While this cantilever setup would cost more than a conventional coil over setup, it does have its advantages. However for price factor most people would never see the advantages this setup would yield in just a normal street car.

Benifets that I see
1. The ability to run a much more adjustable shock, and mounting point. Aftermarket motorcycle shocks have a much higher range of adjustments, Including high speed compression, low speed compression, rebound, preload, and ride height adj. Not to mention adjusting the pivot point, where you can adjust the ratio to make for different wheel travel to actually shock travel, making the shocks much more effective.(different spring rates would be needed)Not to mention these shock are rebuildable are able to be revalved.(PS to do this right run aftermarket motorcycle shocks so you can have them revalved, since the valving for motorcycles and cars would be quite different. Stock shocks only offer a small amount.)
2. Ease of adjustments. Don't bother tearing your whole car apart to swap out springs or adjust you shocks. Everything is located inboard and out of the weather, allowing parts to last longer.
3.Weight placement. Center weight is better, and a small amount of less unsprung weight.
4. Wheel clearance. Not sure how much this effects EF, but some cars wheel widths are affected by how close the wheel comes to the shocks/springs. This would allow for one to run much wider wheels without hitting vital suspension parts.

Im sure there are other benefits as well, and i'll add them when I think of them or others can chime in as well. Money aside this setup is far better than the conventional setup.

**EvasiveEF9** · 10-25-2008, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by green91

Ok well since it worked well for you i guess theres no point in ever using any other suspension setup

Wasn't saying by any means that it was the best setup...

Originally Posted by slow_hatch

You can't compare your BASIC street setup to one that would see huge benefits on a racetrack. Mtns and an actual race track are totally different.(BTW skunk2 and AGXs is NOT one of the best setups) While this cantilever setup would cost more than a conventional coil over setup, it does have its advantages. However for price factor most people would never see the advantages this setup would yield in just a normal street car.

Benifets that I see
1. The ability to run a much more adjustable shock, and mounting point. Aftermarket motorcycle shocks have a much higher range of adjustments, Including high speed compression, low speed compression, rebound, preload, and ride height adj. Not to mention adjusting the pivot point, where you can adjust the ratio to make for different wheel travel to actually shock travel, making the shocks much more effective.(different spring rates would be needed)Not to mention these shock are rebuildable are able to be revalved.(PS to do this right run aftermarket motorcycle shocks so you can have them revalved, since the valving for motorcycles and cars would be quite different. Stock shocks only offer a small amount.)
2. Ease of adjustments. Don't bother tearing your whole car apart to swap out springs or adjust you shocks. Everything is located inboard and out of the weather, allowing parts to last longer.
3.Weight placement. Center weight is better, and a small amount of less unsprung weight.
4. Wheel clearance. Not sure how much this effects EF, but some cars wheel widths are affected by how close the wheel comes to the shocks/springs. This would allow for one to run much wider wheels without hitting vital suspension parts.

Im sure there are other benefits as well, and i'll add them when I think of them or others can chime in as well. Money aside this setup is far better than the conventional setup.

Reps (if I could) for posting up WHY this would be better instead of just being critical of my lack of knowledge on its advantages. I see your second and fourth points being the most legit. Keep in mind that I didn't say I had the best setup, but I do feel it did quite well.

**JDM SLiViC** · 10-25-2008, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by green91

That particular guy said he had about $250 in his setup using CBR600rr rear shocks. Honestly doesnt look that hard to do! It would definitely solve alot of problems with suspension travel etc that hondas have. (AKA FUCK extended tophats

)

Oh yeah heres something more to think about:

Thats bad! Id do it if i had boo kooz of money in the bank

Who ever has that hatch fabs everything himself!!!

**EvasiveEF9** · 10-25-2008, 08:14 PM

If I had crazy cash, I'd probably have built my kart that I started blue-printing right before I signed. Was basically gonna be my version of the aerial atom. Same concept, just different design. Everything hand/home made except the bending of the frame rails.

**B_Hoov** · 10-26-2008, 05:43 PM

sorry it's been a while peeps, been busy busy, im on the process of getting the rear done at the moment and then i will be starting a wire tuck on the engine bay eliminating ANYTHING that can be eliminated and relocating everything but the motor to accommodate the front cantilever set-up, it is possible to spend VERY little $ on this set-up but you better know wtf ur doin or have a damn good insurance policy for when the shit goes south. im going to build/test/tune mine to ensure safety before i make more of them, i will be pushing it hard too. lol

**JDM SLiViC** · 10-27-2008, 10:02 PM

Did you wreck the front of your car or did you make your radiator support like that to be different???

**green91** · 10-28-2008, 08:46 AM

I found that pic on honda-tech, but i would assume they did it for radiator or 1 piece front end clearing issues

**EvasiveEF9** · 10-28-2008, 04:23 PM

Weight-loss...?

**B_Hoov** · 10-29-2008, 12:46 PM

okay peeps, i have done a TON of research and i will be using springs with a spring rate of 500lb, with the angle there placed at and the position and leverage of the actual cantilever (can be adjusted) im looking at a 295lb spring rate in the rear, and this will be a BOLT IN SYSTEM! the only welding i will be doing is on the strut bracket (looks like a NASTY rear strut tower bar) it will bolt up just like a strut tower bar would with the bolts that I SUPPLY, then all you have to do is bolt up the rod from the cantilever to the LCA and adjust it to you liking (height) i need to know a general idea of the height ur going for because as i stated before...only going to be adj one inch up and one inch down from where you tell me! unless otherwise stated you will be getting a 295 spring rate (almost identical to the skunk 2 pro C's/ k Pro's) struts will already be mounted as well as cantilever triangles to avoid confusion of placement and engineering. i will be writing up a basic set of installation instructions that have pictures to guide the biggest moron on how these need to be installed!

**00CelicaGT** · 10-29-2008, 01:20 PM

sound like u got it all together. good job

**B_Hoov** · 10-29-2008, 01:25 PM

^repped!

**The BUCKY** · 10-29-2008, 02:04 PM

ballin. but what are you making them for? just EFs?

**B_Hoov** · 10-29-2008, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by The BUCKY

ballin. but what are you making them for? just EFs?

no sir! same set-up will work on ANY car just need to take measurements...actually have one already on an s13 test car...

**The BUCKY** · 10-29-2008, 06:43 PM

just have to be adjusted? to diff lengths

**mushroom_toy** · 10-29-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by green91

(AKA FUCK extended tophats

)

Mine work fine.

**B_Hoov** · 10-30-2008, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by The BUCKY

just have to be adjusted? to diff lengths

well i need to know the height you want but essential to build it i need to know the bolt pattern of the top hat and distance between them so i can make them spot on, and would also need to make sure it would not interfere with anything, most of the time it would not but im sure there is a special case out there...

**Black R** · 10-31-2008, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by NAIZBST

it's not an old vw bug ken

dude, have you seen his web page?

i'm sure he could do it! :P

**Black R** · 10-31-2008, 03:52 PM

oh, and B Hoov, you may want to make sure that people will still be able to use the back seat for hatchbacks - some people still run a full interior..... it may help with future customers.

-just a thought.

**SLOWR/T** · 10-31-2008, 04:15 PM

any prototype pics?

**josh green** · 10-31-2008, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Black R

oh, and B Hoov, you may want to make sure that people will still be able to use the back seat for hatchbacks - some people still run a full interior..... it may help with future customers.

-just a thought.

Ken, there was a company that made "drop spindles" for hondas. I think they were made for drag racing, I am pretty sure they are out of production as well. They were pretty beefy looking. What do you know about shock potentiometers?

**B_Hoov** · 10-31-2008, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by josh green

What do you know about shock potentiometers?

was that question directed towards me? lol i will have a few prototype pics next week sometime.

**B_Hoov** · 10-31-2008, 08:42 PM

oh, and the back seat suggestion, my hatch HAS TO have a back seat as i have a newborn so i am making it back seat friendly for sure! thanks for all suggestions!

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