To make 200whp+.... what's required?

[skacore]

Oh mike.......... no faith in me huh. LOL! going for 270whp.(before the bottle) LOCALLY!

I have faith, but this isn't a junkyard this is a garage.

[Vteckidd]

Oh mike.......... no faith in me huh. LOL! going for 270whp.(before the bottle) LOCALLY!

yOu have a good build I'm interested to see what it makes but if you were only shooting for 200-220whp you spent way too much money lol

but you're trying to make 250+ so to do that with a b series costs way too much. H22 it's prob easier an cheaper still but not enough to make a huge difference.

I don't think there is anyone that will argue that the "old technology" is still competitive and a viable option for street cars. And they make more hp/$

[112480]

Why wait? Im ready now.... Im not a b/h/k/j/f series guy, im actually a d series guy.(But thats not the point)..... Ok listen and listen closely. K swap guys dont talk about b series or h series guys because after spending all the money on the swap and the million things you have to do to get the damn thing to run they realize they still have to build the motor because its still not fast. Im guessing thats what u did, thats why u had the motor in and pulled it back out to build it. (maybe im wrong, but this is most cases)

BTW everybody in this thread is referring to a stock k series or hybrid swap in a civic or what not. You are referring to a built motor swap (completely different) Anything built should be fast. The point isnt that a built k series isnt fast, the point is that to swap a stock k in you couldve been considerably faster. Yes they are new, and look nice in the engine bay, but most ppl will wait until it becomes cheaper. In 3 years i will probably have a stock k series in my sedan, but for now i'll wait.

Actually i came from a turbo'd D series myself. And for my next build i wanted something that not only is fast with basic bolt-ons but has the GREATEST potential. No matter how u shake it a b and even a h22 CANNOT make as much hp as a k build for build. Mean fully built a h22 can produce what mike................... and a fully built k has produce over 330whp ALL MOTOR of course.

And i didnt pull the motor out and build it. LOL, this is my first k swap so instead of just "putting" it together i decided to go ahead and build it the way i want to for now and come back and add more later. FYI, going for 270whp all motor and 400+whp on the bottle(150shot:boobies. But its built also so later i can put the kraftwerks s/c kit on it WITH the 150 shot and look between 6-700whp depending on which kraftwerks s/c kit i go with.

But ur right this thread is reffering to a 1.8l producing 200who UNDER 8K. So a k WOULD B A WATSE OF MONEY for that goal.

[Vteckidd]

I don't know why the rpm is an argument unless you're on pro3s it's not going to make power deep in 9000 and not without a ported head.

Most stock heads die off around 8200-8500(b/h)

[112480]

how come when mike says it its true, but when i say it its not? lol jk man

LOL, ur right too. reps for u also

[112480]

I made 190whp at 7200rpm on stock intake manifold, stock throttle body, stock cam gears, homemade intake, need of a tune up BAD (running rough), and untuned (of tune from factory, no additional tuning, however ya look at it). (mainstream's dyno day)

I have a good header, and stage 1 cams on it.

With the rest of the bolt ons and cams adjusted I can pretty much promise 200whp+ under 8krpms.

Let's see it

[112480]

I have faith, but this isn't a junkyard this is a garage.

HAHAHA!!! reps for u!

[112480]

I don't know why the rpm is an argument unless you're on pro3s it's not going to make power deep in 9000 and not without a ported head.

Most stock heads die off around 8200-8500(b/h)

Well i dont think the guy is arguing the rpm thing he just wants to know if its possible for a 1.8l to produce 200whp UNDER 8k. Like urs made 200whp at 8400rpms. He wants that UNDER 8k.

[Vteckidd]

No matter how u shake it a b and even a h22 CANNOT make as much hp as a k build for build. Mean fully built a h22 can produce what mike................... and a fully built k has produce over 330whp ALL MOTOR of course.

I disagree. In terms we are talkig about which is street driven cars either motor is capable of big numbers, the h22 is prob easier to do it with, cheaper, and has a better oiling system. Hs have been making over 300whp for years with BAR HONDA race team.

The k20/k24 is the future but it's just not a viable option for most consumers right now.

I've sold 600 b series narrows in a year, 175 h22 drag, 200 h22 hytech, 200 rsx, 250 civicsi



40 k series swap headers.

[112480]

I disagree. In terms we are talkig about which is street driven cars either motor is capable of big numbers, the h22 is prob easier to do it with, cheaper, and has a better oiling system. Hs have been making over 300whp for years with BAR HONDA race team.

The k20/k24 is the future but it's just not a viable option for most consumers right now.

I've sold 600 b series narrows in a year, 175 h22 drag, 200 h22 hytech, 200 rsx, 250 civicsi



40 k series swap headers.

Well yea we're talking about street driven cars. Show us some STREET DRIVEN 300whp H series cars. There a a good(not a lot)number of k swaps that do 300+whp though. DAILY STREET DRIVEN.

[112480]

40 k series swap headers.

Yep i'm one of them Oh ym Go-Power V1R cams come today mike. LOL thats y i'm not at mainstrem dyno day today cause i'm sitting here waiting on damn fedex. Damn signature required packages.........

[112480]

Hey mike correct me if i'm wrong but wont he have to get a b20/vtec to make 200whp at 9k rpms? Cause a b18c5 stock redline is 8400 and even though gsr is 8k, just bolt-ons wont get him 200whp@8k rpms unless u can tell him of some AMAZING cams that will do the trick in a gsr swap. but then again if he do b20/vtec there goes his 1.8l, so i dont know.....

What do u think..........

[BABY J]

The bottom line is for what you spend for the basic bolt-on K swap (including all peripherals and support items) I can spec a B/H series K-killer and you will have change left over for dinner.

Now - that B would likely be a little more "high-strung" than the K but will def be streetable. It would also be just as reliable (if not more) when done right. In my sig -- the built B/H is on the left, and the K is on the right

[Jdm94Coupe]

In my sig -- the built B/H is on the left, and the K is on the right

reps!

[Vteckidd]

300 whp is not a daily driven Car or engine sorry , not in my opinion. K h or b.

B series would be a $30000 motor , h series would be a race engine, k20 would be a race engine. K20/k24 would be borderline race motor IMO. Well we'll see what yours makes, if you make 270whp that'll be impressive but you're still way shy of 300whp.

I think the problem is the k series guys get caught up in numbers and feel like they are embarressed if they don't make a ton more power than a b or h counterpart.

It's just an engine it's slightly better than a b or h butit still operates under the rules of every other engine ever made, volumetric efficiency

My 2.0l lsvtec made 237/159 , chunkys 2.0k20 made 242/164 . Same setups, same disp, same compression , etc

difference is I had huge cams chunky had ips k2s. His motor made the power "easier" if that means anything

[Vteckidd]

Yep i'm one of them Oh ym Go-Power V1R cams come today mike. LOL thats y i'm not at mainstrem dyno day today cause i'm sitting here waiting on damn fedex. Damn signature required packages.........

I think for what you are doing k was a good choice. You also have
money to spend and time to wait to buy what you want. Most people can't do that.

Stupid fedex :p

[BABY J]

I was the "last guy" to go B series. I was still raping Bs with my juiced D - Ds were cheaper - affordable and "bulletproof". You can mistreat a D w/ ignoring maintenance and it will get you home. The Bs had more potential but were finicky and you have to stay on top of maintenance or a B series will tell on you in NO time flat.

Fastforward 15 years and enter the K. We are at the same crossroads as we were w/ the B. To swap or not to swap. The B has decades of R&D out there - the blueprint is there. Just google your desired ET and HP. And for those of you who don't know the B is STILL being developed (fyi).

The K is a beast - make no mistake about it. But it has not come full circle yet and is still not cost-effective hp per $. Yes - you'll have OEM reliability but I am not a fan of beating on OEM parts --- so that is something to consider as well. There are still a few years of K cars that need to be produced and crashed to make it on equal footing IMO.

But at the end of the day build what you wanna build.

[Vteckidd]

Hey mike correct me if i'm wrong but wont he have to get a b20/vtec to make 200whp at 9k rpms? Cause a b18c5 stock redline is 8400 and even though gsr is 8k, just bolt-ons wont get him 200whp@8k rpms unless u can tell him of some AMAZING cams that will do the trick in a gsr swap. but then again if he do b20/vtec there goes his 1.8l, so i dont know.....

What do u think..........

if you wanna make over 200whp under 8000 rpms why build a Honda, buy a v8

I don't understand the wanting to stay under 8000 rpm thing , Honda are made to rev high from lower disp

[112480]

The bottom line is for what you spend for the basic bolt-on K swap (including all peripherals and support items) I can spec a B/H series K-killer and you will have change left over for dinner.

LOL yeah u can spec a fully built "high strung" b/h setup to beat a BASIC BOLT ON K SWAP NOW..... lets mod the the k like the b and h..............

[112480]

Stupid fedex :p

Yea ll me about it!!! its damn 5:35p.m and they STILL HAVENT CAME YET.....

[112480]

if you wanna make over 200whp under 8000 rpms why build a Honda, buy a v8

I don't understand the wanting to stay under 8000 rpm thing , Honda are made to rev high from lower disp

true

[teh_mugen18]

Lol, wow this thread really took off...


But, my reasoning for asking this question is due to the fact that i have a bare LS block just sitting, and its been sitting for almost 2 years now because i havent completely decided what i want to do with it yet. At first, i had dedicated it 100% to boost because i wanted to have it in a car that would make ~400ish whp daily driven on boost. But, then after a recent ''kill'', I considered the fact that boost (SOMEtimes) isn't really all that its cracked up to be... And that an all motor car with a lot less power, can actually keep up with if not completely spank a turbo car if its putting the power to the ground in a more efficient way, ie. not having to wait on turbos to spool, not worrying about boost leaks, etc. Which lead me back on the path to an ''all motor'' build.

But then there is the fact that it takes somewhat more investment, moneywise, to make a GOOD build that will reliably make power in comparison to building a turbo engine. For example, i calculated a future build that i thought about doing and it was going to cost ~$3,000 to get it built to make ~200 or so whp... vs a similar amount of $ invested in some forged pistons/rods, and a custom turbo setup would possibly net me up to 300-400whp. So it threw me back into the loop of wanting to boost an engine.

Im kinda confused, if y'all couldn't tell already.

EDIT: and as for the bare LS block, if i do an all motor build on it, i would bore it out to 2.0 before building it as well.

[Jdm94Coupe]

Lol, wow this thread really took off...


But, my reasoning for asking this question is due to the fact that i have a bare LS block just sitting, and its been sitting for almost 2 years now because i havent completely decided what i want to do with it yet. At first, i had dedicated it 100% to boost because i wanted to have it in a car that would make ~400ish whp daily driven on boost. But, then after a recent ''kill'', I considered the fact that boost (SOMEtimes) isn't really all that its cracked up to be... And that an all motor car with a lot less power, can actually keep up with if not completely spank a turbo car if its putting the power to the ground in a more efficient way, ie. not having to wait on turbos to spool, not worrying about boost leaks, etc. Which lead me back on the path to an ''all motor'' build.

But then there is the fact that it takes somewhat more investment, moneywise, to make a GOOD build that will reliably make power in comparison to building a turbo engine. For example, i calculated a future build that i thought about doing and it was going to cost ~$3,000 to get it built to make ~200 or so whp... vs a similar amount of $ invested in some forged pistons/rods, and a custom turbo setup would possibly net me up to 300-400whp. So it threw me back into the loop of wanting to boost an engine.

Im kinda confused, if y'all couldn't tell already.

EDIT: and as for the bare LS block, if i do an all motor build on it, i would bore it out to 2.0 before building it as well.

what chassis? what block/head/tranny are in it now?

[teh_mugen18]

what chassis? what block/head/tranny are in it now?

right now, its in a DB1 chassis with an LS trans, stock internal LS block, and GSR head. It didn't make quite as much power as what i was expecting it to make though.

lol, its my first ''build'', sortof.

[bigdare23]

Now, some Honda all-motor engines obviously can make 200whp or more, but they in general are not 1.8L's.. I've only heard of one 1.8L all-motor engine making over 200whp and it revved to 9000+ rpms. Now, for Bseries 2.0 blocks, they obviously cannot really handle revving to 9000rpms reliably, so since they don't rev quite as high, and Hondas generally make most of their power through high rpm running, what type of combination should/would be thrown together in order to make a B series engine keep its revs around 8k, and make 200whp+? I've been thinking about this for a while, but I know that there's no guarantees on how much power an engine will make, but no less than 200whp is the goal for my next build, all-motor and I'm not sure what combination would do it.... other than a 12:1CR and a 2.0L block.

You don't need to rev the piss out of your motor to make power. Look at me I made 200hp slightly below 7k. You just need to choose parts that work well together.

It's kinda easy to make 200hp with a 1.8L (in my opinion). I would take a 1.8L and install at least p30 pistons and arp rod bolts. You will need to increase the volumetric flow rate of the air entering the engine. A 3in intake, 65-70mm throttle body, and decent intake manifold will do that. I would add a velocity stack to reduce the turbulence in the air flow. Since more air (and faster) is coming in the engine, you will want to increase the rate that it exits. A header with a 2.5in collector, and at least a 2.5in exhaust will achieve that goal. As for cams, most manufacturers give the rpm range where their cam make power at, so look at the specs of cams and chose a cam that will make power in the rpm range you plan on revving your motor to. Also, your power band can be adjusted with cam gears. So you can get a bigger cam, but adjust your power band to your optimum range. So once you get tuned, you can ask your tuner to adjust your cam gear so that your power is where you want it. For an example, a good friend of mines has a b16b with BC spec III. Originally he made 180/125 with the cams set at 0,0. The tuner adjusted is cams to +1,-3 (I believe), he made 179/133. He lost hp and gain torque, but what was significant was his peak power dropped 500rpms giving him a better power band.

Also, you can guarantee 200hp with a valve job or/and port work.

Hope you achieve your goal

[BABY J]

^^ Great add Dare.

To the OP:

Do not get so caught up on the 200whp mark though in your build unless it's a personal goal of yours. Make sure you engineer some engine response into your setup as well w/ a well designed free-flowing head loaded w/ some good lightweight gear. I am simply ingesting and exhaling more air at a faster rate - PERIOD. W/ more air, I add more fuel - just add spark and bam... snowball effect as long as your cams don't roll over. I compared my graph (MPH ONLY) to some 200+ hp setups and my engine still makes FASTER power/tq than some high-revving others. I am MANY miles/hr faster at the same point in a pull in the same gear than cars that make more power than me... that's why some1 called it the VTEC killer in another thread. LOL. What do you think will happen in a pull if I make FASTER/QUICKER use of my power? PWNED (unless we went all out and then their peak power/tq steals the show. BY then though the point is proven). Their peak power trumps mine - but I get to 100mph (just below my trap in the 1/2) MUCH faster. So there is lots to consider other than HP. SPEND THE MONEY ON PROPER PORTWORK!!!! It's money well spent.

www.team4piston.com

www.stewartengines.com

[Starrfire]

Ay mike u think he can get 200whp wit a h2b swap with bolt ons UNDER 8krpms????

I did, 215 not even over 8k. Bolt ons only.

[speedminded]

Well i dont think the guy is arguing the rpm thing he just wants to know if its possible for a 1.8l to produce 200whp UNDER 8k. Like urs made 200whp at 8400rpms. He wants that UNDER 8k.

The original post says 9000...several times, nothing about 8000.

Hey mike correct me if i'm wrong but wont he have to get a b20/vtec to make 200whp at 9k rpms? Cause a b18c5 stock redline is 8400 and even though gsr is 8k, just bolt-ons wont get him 200whp@8k rpms unless u can tell him of some AMAZING cams that will do the trick in a gsr swap. but then again if he do b20/vtec there goes his 1.8l, so i dont know.....

What do u think..........

You can get over 200whp with a b20 VTEC @ 8k rpm's if you want but it will require the block to be bored (Stock internals like RSX Type-S pistons with B-series rods ) and a built head (b16 p&p Skunk2 stage 2 internals).

Welcome to 2004. I posted the dyno vid on our car over 5 years ago.

[jerseyef9]

Actually u can do it for around $4-6k and get 215-225whp k20/24 with i/h/e and k-pro.

that sad k20/k24 with only 225

[Vteckidd]

that sad k20/k24 with only 225

Not really cause it's prob 225/170 haha

with your current mods you're looking at spending a lot of money for not a lot of gain. You basically have a bare ls block and a gsr head. You basically have nothing.

If all you care about is being fast or having a quick car for fucks sake stop all this boost or all motor talk and listen to what I said 10 threads ago, SUPERCHARGE it.

$1000-1200 for supercharger, 5-6psi make 220-230whp easily

[Jenson]

EDIT: and as for the bare LS block, if i do an all motor build on it, i would bore it out to 2.0 before building it as well.

Must sleeve to "bore out" to 2.0L. Or get a stroker crank. If you want to stay all motor, ditch the LS block and go H2B.

Screw a $1000 supercharger, $500 N2O kit will easily get you 200Whp, and more torque than a 300Whp turbo setup. And you get the reliability of a standard engine for DD.

[Vteckidd]

Supercharger is more reliable then n2o no Honda guys do n2o correctly a $500 nitrous kit isn't doing it right

your old gsr plate kit was doingit rigt

Jenson = nitrous king

[BABY J]

Plate kits for GSRs are not uncommon especially since no1 makes them for any other Honda block. A single nozzle will flow up to a 150 shot - no1 runs kits with more than that (other than me that I know of) so that's why you see no1 with a plate. There are 3 guys that I know of with direct shots on this board - out of the 3, no1 is running a controller but me. The ONLY other guy I know on IA running a controller is only on a 75 shot. Nitrous "done right" WILL have a controller if you wanna run it from the dig. Nitrous done right WILL have a heater if done right - and if you"re really a baller nitrous done right will have a nitrogen push if you want it to be consistent - I do not know of a SINGLE fwd import in Ga that has ran a nitrogen push. If ur doing nothing but rolls pass on the controller - if u wanna dig and spray its MANDATORY for fwd unless all u care about is mile-an-hour - you'll mile-anhour regardless w/out a controller even if you run 14.50s - lol. 15.0 @ 137mph is always fun to see - haha. Nitrous is the big equalizer and always will be. I saw a stock LS go 198hp and 172ft lbs on an untuned sub 100hp shot through a single nozzle.

[BABY J]

And when I say controller - I mean RPM based - not a $100 timer. If u lose traction or miss a gear with a timer the entire ramping is off. RPM based controllers always put you back where ytou belong so you can salvage the run.

I agree with Jenson on the nitrous comments - however gas is more maintenance and hassles opposed 2 the blower. Blowers really need displacement 2 be effective so anything sub 2liters I wouldn't do it - and they create a lot of heat. Even with that said th SC is less cumbersome - no driving to get a fill - wondering if this fill is as "strong" as the last - etc. But dollar per hp nitrous trumps a lot of power adders. You have to think "how often am I REALLY racing in any given week". If it's a lot - then stick with a snail or a blower - but if it's every now and then spend $300 on a decent street kit, adjust your timing and go hunting.

[Jenson]

You can easily get a $250-300 used 5177 kit, add a heater $99 (if it doesnt have one), $250 FJO controller, 3 more nozzles ($15 each IIRC) and have a "baller" direct port dry kit. I bought my plate off H-T for $75 lol, and come to think of it I think Peter or B (gold hatch) has it now for some reason. I believe they discontinued the plate in 08, could be wrong though. I could never get a single nozzle to distribute properly ie: always hit #3 hard. You definately dont need a controller for a 75 shot, just some 24" slicks. I made 228 Whp on a stock B18C1 with a greddy header, hot air intake, 2.25 RSr exaust catback, and a vtec controller with a 75shot. An ignition is a must though to get rid of the fuel cut, so do add another $200 minimum for that.

I dont see how a supercharger is more reliable, its always there, even more than a turbo. The bottle can just sit at home all week leaving you with a stock engine. I ran the 75 shot for over a year with zero issues, stock injectors, walbro 255 pump.

Baby J, you running a seperate fuel system for the bottle? I never got to that point but my buddy did. I do always forget that back then, I filled up so much it became free at some point and we would just go fill our own bottles...those were the days. But back to all motor, H2B all the way!!

[BABY J]

I got my shit rocked by a semi-built H2B hatch in Indianapolis - bolted up, cams, tunedn gutted on a jdm b16 gearset with lsd. They are definitely on my radar now after that - lol.

[112480]

that sad k20/k24 with only 225

LOL! ARE u f-ing kidding me........... Thats SIMPLE BOLT-ONS!! INTAKE! HEADER! EXHUAST! AND K-PRO!........ What damn B or H or H2b swap with THOSE SAME MODS can give u 225WHP AND 165-175WTQ!!??????????????????????????????????????????

[bigdare23]

LOL! ARE u f-ing kidding me........... Thats SIMPLE BOLT-ONS!! INTAKE! HEADER! EXHUAST! AND K-PRO!........ What damn B or H or H2b swap with THOSE SAME MODS can give u 225WHP AND 165-175WTQ!!??????????????????????????????????????????

I have seen a few bolt-on h-series with 165-175lb-tq...

[all-mota]

some good and bad info in this thread.


my advice is do all of them and see which one you like best haha.

[112480]

I have seen a few bolt-on h-series with 165-175lb-tq...

WITH JUST i/h/e and tuned?????????? 225WHP ALSO??????????????????