Import Tuner's Got my back! H22 head + F23 Block

[TheChosenOne]

Yes, we've been here before. And I know I originally renounced my ambitions to throw my money away on a half-assed motor build attempt. But just hear me out!

In this month's issue of Import Tuner (pg. 89 i think) They had an article about the little know "K-Killer" that can be built for a third less! Money is ALWAYS an issue, but what's more important is the sheer ease that they say the engine can be built by. All the simple version of the build calls for is a H22 head, an F23 block, and K-series pistons.

Now, Mike, go easy on me cause I just want some input from ATL all motor gurus on whether this is legit. In the past, I presented the hybrid build, and was shunned because of it's price tag compared to a Stock H22.

Now, I already know that the build has to be mated to a b-series tranny to compete with a semi-built K, but I'm not even trying to be the fastest. In a nut shell, all I want to know is can this be done as easily as the mag states?

[Vteckidd]

don't believe everything you read. I read the article with enough money anything is possible but I've seen more problems out of g23 than they are worth. Personally I'd rather use a stock h22. I'm just not a fan of matting a sohc with a dohc cause a mag said it was ok.

[TheChosenOne]

don't believe everything you read. I read the article with enough money anything is possible but I've seen more problems out of g23 than they are worth. Personally I'd rather use a stock h22. I'm just not a fan of matting a sohc with a dohc cause a mag said it was ok.

Oh, of course. Import Tuner is not the final word on my decision, but all that it shows, is that it ran. And it ran WELL, with Dyno numbers to prove it. I'm almost willing to say that with that header you've come up with that I could put down 200+ to the wheels with a stock head and just pistons and a tune.

shoot man, give it a shot - learn about both the block and the head and why they can be put together. And if it makes sense, then do it. Very interesting to see what you wind up with bro.

-jonathan

Thanks man, but people have been messing with this build or stuff similar to it for almost five years now. I hope I can figure out the sure do's and don't of it so I can make it happen without too many doubts.

it can be done i have that right now but not k pistons jet thats next

Nice! If you don't mind me asking, what's your setup?

[mirz833]

got h22 head/tranyy f23 block and some other basic shit

[Franco Tirador]

got h22 head/tranyy f23 block and some other basic shit

i have ridden in this car and the only thing i have been in thats faster than this car was a turbo supra

the G23 is nice, i say go ahead and do it and then tell us about it

i personally would not do it, im not a big fan of hybrids, i rather oem (im big on reliability) but out of all that has been said if i had to choose i would go with the h23 block, at least its a dohc block, and not that expensive

and

[ash7]

shoot man, give it a shot - learn about both the block and the head and why they can be put together. And if it makes sense, then do it. Very interesting to see what you wind up with bro.

-jonathan

[mirz833]

it can be done i have that right now but not k pistons jet thats next

[Vteckidd]

the problem is to do it right it will cost alot of money. machine work, bearings , pistons, oem parts, cams, header, etc etc etc

You could buy an h22 longblock with cams and a header an make 190whp no problem.

I dont know if you are into building a motor, i see no advantage the F23 gives you over say a OEM H23VTEC. Why mix an match ?

The LSVTECs have been proven to be reliable as long as you build them right. I have only seen 1 or 2 G23s that were actually worth what it cost the end user

[TheChosenOne]

the problem is to do it right it will cost alot of money. machine work, bearings , pistons, oem parts, cams, header, etc etc etc

You could buy an h22 longblock with cams and a header an make 190whp no problem.

I dont know if you are into building a motor, i see no advantage the F23 gives you over say a OEM H23VTEC. Why mix an match ?

The LSVTECs have been proven to be reliable as long as you build them right. I have only seen 1 or 2 G23s that were actually worth what it cost the end user

True, but that's not my question. Yeah, it might cosr more than an H22, but I didn't compare it to that... I'm trying to be more along the lines of a K.

Check me out, and advise where you see fit:
H22 head - 300
F23 Block - 100
K20 pistons - 200
Bearings, head gasket, & head studs - 400

Now, these are rough estimates, and I know nothing goes as planned, but $1000 for an OEM G23 build isn't that bad. Of Course I still need to tune it, slap a header on and get a tranny, clutch and axles. All in all, that's right at $2,500 for a full swap that SHOULD have around 12:1 compression and be putting down more than 200.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[WhiteAccord]

If your going to half ass anything, it of course would cost less. For the decent build for the G23 should cost you about 4k give or take. Your also for getting there will be machine work that will be needed.

With alot of research on the N/A G23 it isnt a reliable motor. Ive seen a couple half asses builds on the G23(Cheap) all have failed on reliabilty.

[TheChosenOne]

If your going to half ass anything, it of course would cost less. For the decent build for the G23 should cost you about 4k give or take. Your also for getting there will be machine work that will be needed.

With alot of research on the N/A G23 it isnt a reliable motor. Ive seen a couple half asses builds on the G23(Cheap) all have failed on reliabilty.

If I was going to half ass it, I would have stated that in the beginning. There are people on H-T that have been running G23's for 30,000+ miles. I am well aware of machine work that will be needed, but are you?

Let me make this clear:MONEY IS ALWAYS AN ISSUE, BUT RELIABILITY IS MORE IMPORTANT! Enough with the post about if you build it cheap it wont last long... NO SHIIT! I'm not a noob, so please don't try me like one.

Please read the original post before posting you opinion on whether i should build it or not b/c if that was the case I would have post a poll. So far, only minor machine work is needed. I'm looking for more significant information that will help me with the build such as piston choices, clearances, and tolerances. Would OEM bearings be a better choice than ACL bearings? Will an extra oil line to the head be necessary?

[xdavidscenex]

yeah can check onecamonly.com most ppl on there are using big block sohc[f22 and f23] with gsr bearing design. you have to get some work done to the crank.

[mirz833]

Look people if he wants to do it let him do i have that set up and i like it so let the man do his thing. IF you guys can help him then do so dont try to tell him what to do with his $......... i say do it man i suppppport you ok and trust me you can kill some k and s2k subaru evo g37 and other shit like that if you dont trust me i can get some people that worrre there with me when i raccced them and if you get like some nos you be in 12 but you will need slicks and lsd
/ here is a vid me killing a k and i speak from experience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wspe0g54Ds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjtUIGmLzsI

[BTEC]

hmmm, im not a h of f man obviously but i think i might be interested in doing a little research on this one.

imo, just do it. fuck what u read, what ppl say. u can get most of the it done and work the bugs out later. lol!! thats how i do. PS: always have a backup setup waiting in case shit dnt buff out though. lmao!!!

[mirz833]

hmmm, im not a h of f man obviously but i think i might be interested in doing a little research on this one.

imo, just do it. fuck what u read, what ppl say. u can get most of the it done and work the bugs out later. lol!! thats how i do. PS: always have a backup setup waiting in case shit dnt buff out though. lmao!!!

^^^^^^^^agreeeeeeeeeeeee

[mirz833]

my g23 on some cams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arZg6Sy4vFQ

[scttydb411]

i neglected to read the article, but why not just do an h23/vtec w/ high comp pistons, s2p2 cams, tdf 4 lane header or mikes h22 header and a 2.5" exhuast?

am i missing something here?

[BTEC]

i neglected to read the article, but why not just do an h23/vtec w/ high comp pistons, s2p2 cams, tdf 4 lane header or mikes h22 header and a 2.5" exhuast?

am i missing something here?

thats what id do. i need my vtec. and shit not lining up, i have enough problems with my experiments. 8 hrs on the side of the highway gets old quit. and when its 20 degrees, u dnt have any heat and dnt know when ur hmboy is gonna be there with the trailer to get u sucks. Sorry, i had a couple flash backs.

[HatchHero]

i neglected to read the article, but why not just do an h23/vtec w/ high comp pistons, s2p2 cams, tdf 4 lane header or mikes h22 header and a 2.5" exhuast?

am i missing something here?

thats what im gonna do!!

[BTEC]

what is the difference in wrist pin location? k vs h? that would make a big difference. and do they not make a thicker headgasket so u dnt have the mess with the combustion chambers in the head?

i dnt like the blob of silicone used where the head dnt line up.

Imo, i think its a cool thing to do if u have to stuff laying around but to go out and find alllllll that stuff, plus the machine work...

Is that a vtec bottom end with a non vtec head anyway?

[TheChosenOne]

Scotty, are you talking about Honda's Factory H23Vtec, or the frank build H23Vtec? If its the first, its TOO rare and expensive, and if its the latter, the whole oil squirter mods and such are just too iffy for my likeing.

Since I have a running d15b7, I've got my back-up, so that's taken care of.

I've been researching everything H & F related like a Mad-man, and there is nothing else even close (except for an ebay turbo kit on a single cam) that can have me past 200whp for such a decnt price WHILE STAYING RELATIVLY RELIABLE. An F20 would be VERY nice, but I'm a displacement whore, so turning down that extra .3 liters just doesn't sit well with me. I think I'm going to buy a head this week.

[Vteckidd]

Scotty, are you talking about Honda's Factory H23Vtec, or the frank build H23Vtec? If its the first, its TOO rare and expensive, and if its the latter, the whole oil squirter mods and such are just too iffy for my likeing.


.

so plugging oil squirters worries you, but taking a SOHC Block, with a DOHC head, and putting K series pistons in it is ok.

interesting

BTW H23 VTECs are cheap, under $1500 for a longblock
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-H...Q5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-9...Q5fAccessories

OH LOOK THIS ONE IS LOCAL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-H...Q5fAccessories

If you think $1500 is high, id love to see what you will spend on that Hybrid engine. Sorry id take the H23 VTEC and slap it in my car with a header an ride out. Thats the cheapest thing to do and its OEM FACTORY RELIABILITY

[speedminded]

OH LOOK THIS ONE IS LOCAL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-H...Q5fAccessories

If you think $1500 is high, id love to see what you will spend on that Hybrid engine. Sorry id take the H23 VTEC and slap it in my car with a header an ride out. Thats the cheapest thing to do and its OEM FACTORY RELIABILITY

That H23 VTEC is such a good deal! Almost makes me want to get a EG and put that in it as a DD...would just have to figure out how to do the A/C.

[TheChosenOne]

UPDATE!!!
I got in touch with the guy who built the actual motor that was in the article, and got some very good info that's re-assuring on this build. He has a build thread on H-T, and he seems to be an experienced and well knowledged honda builder.

1. The K20 pistons will be a direct fit, and he assured OEM would be fine!

2.There ISN'T any major machine work needed, which is even better news!

3.I can keep the F23 oil pump, but the H22 water pump will need the F23 pulley.

There are other minor things ill have to work out, such as engine bay fitment, but that's not what I'm worried about. I'm pretty much 95% sure I will be doing this build, so I'm looking forward to posting pictures as soon as progress has been made!

[BTEC]

UPDATE!!!
I got in touch with the guy who built the actual motor that was in the article, and got some very good info that's re-assuring on this build. He has a build thread on H-T, and he seems to be an experienced and well knowledged honda builder.

1. The K20 pistons will be a direct fit, and he assured OEM would be fine!

2.There ISN'T any major machine work needed, which is even better news!

3.I can keep the F23 oil pump, but the H22 water pump will need the F23 pulley.

There are other minor things ill have to work out, such as engine bay fitment, but that's not what I'm worried about. I'm pretty much 95% sure I will be doing this build, so I'm looking forward to posting pictures as soon as progress has been made!

the thread on HT is the one i saw. are u gonna have to have the squinch pads cut like he did when u use the k20 pistons?

[southside]

Sounds like you have been researching the hell out of this one.Alot of people dont do research and that becomes there down fall.I'd like to see how this runs in the end though.

[speedminded]

The F23 block can not be revved to make full use of the H22 head, simple as that.

[SouthSide Tay]

well the reason it cant be reved is because of the rod stroke ratio. so why not use the h22 crank if you can get one cheap or if your not scared do what im doing not worring about the displacement as much and using a f23 block h22 head and f20 crank with forged pistons and rods built for boost

[TheChosenOne]

Cutting the squinch pads... I'm not sure, ill have to see if that's an issue that even needs to be address considering he used after market pistons and I'm sticking to OEM.

The block can rev high enought to make more power than a stock H22, so your really just making an irrelevant point. Look, the block won't need to revd over 7.5k to make 200whp. Enough said. How is what you said relevant to my build? Granted, the head would make power for another 1k after that, but the h22 bottom end is the flaw that I'm addressing with this build! Without a doubt, the F23 bottom end will generate more torque and hp that the same head with the stock H22 block. So , if you don't have any insight that will help me on my build, please follow these instructions:

GTFO!! And Merry phucking Christmas :-)

[ash7]

Cutting the squinch pads... I'm not sure, ill have to see if that's an issue that even needs to be address considering he used after market pistons and I'm sticking to OEM.

The block can rev high enought to make more power than a stock H22, so your really just making an irrelevant point. Look, the block won't need to revd over 7.5k to make 200whp. Enough said. How is what you said relevant to my build? Granted, the head would make power for another 1k after that, but the h22 bottom end is the flaw that I'm addressing with this build! Without a doubt, the F23 bottom end will generate more torque and hp that the same head with the stock H22 block. So , if you don't have any insight that will help me on my build, please follow these instructions:

GTFO!! And Merry phucking Christmas :-)

that's what's up jordan - hats off to you sir

I'm looking forward to the results
-jonathan

[Vteckidd]

Cutting the squinch pads... I'm not sure, ill have to see if that's an issue that even needs to be address considering he used after market pistons and I'm sticking to OEM.

The block can rev high enought to make more power than a stock H22, so your really just making an irrelevant point. Look, the block won't need to revd over 7.5k to make 200whp. Enough said. How is what you said relevant to my build? Granted, the head would make power for another 1k after that, but the h22 bottom end is the flaw that I'm addressing with this build! Without a doubt, the F23 bottom end will generate more torque and hp that the same head with the stock H22 block. So , if you don't have any insight that will help me on my build, please follow these instructions:

GTFO!! And Merry phucking Christmas :-)

If you are right then why did Honda even design the H22..........

the h22 is a FAR SUPERIOR block than the F23, Nuff said. you dont understand it i cant help you.

The flaw in your build is not the H22 block, and if you think .1L is enough to really make a difference, you have alot to learn. I guess the 89mm crank is light years ahead of the 87mm crank huh.............

The difference is minimal, very minimal.

[CBEeng.]

get a f20b and have oem relaibility, FRM sucks. the displacement isnt going to make that much of a difference when you are just talking about 200whp

[Benefit]

good shit

[mirz833]

i love my g23

[PawnShopCEO]

g23 is cool... BUT you only get 2mm more stroke out of the f23 crank than the h23 crank... h23 crank is a 95mm crank stock. I would do what scotty says and run a h23 bottom end and h22 head. h23vtec came from the factory in japan. F23 dohc vtec never did. If you want something to drive every day i would do a h23 vtec with higher compression pistons (type s or mahle 11.5:1) and a kidd racing header

[Dirty Octopus™]

and this is going in what car?

[TheChosenOne]

It's going in the hatch. Now that X-mas has passed I won't have to waste my money on meanigless gifts for friends and family! I wanted to start buying parts, but I still have to get my wheels and tires. I really wanted the USDM ITR replicas, but they aren't going to come back out until Feb-Mar, so I think I'm gunna go with my back-up setup. :-)

[Dirty Octopus™]

It's going in the hatch. Now that X-mas has passed I won't have to waste my money on meanigless gifts for friends and family! I wanted to start buying parts, but I still have to get my wheels and tires. I really wanted the USDM ITR replicas, but they aren't going to come back out until Feb-Mar, so I think I'm gunna go with my back-up setup. :-)

oh so what motor is in there now?

and BTW wait for the polished joints that Justin has. they're MIGHTY fresh and worth the wait

TRUST

[TheChosenOne]

And to Peggy's response... GTFO! Why would I spend the equivalent to a legit Type R swap, for a phucking h23vtec that would still require me to pu pistons in it??? You obviously did not read the main purposes behind the build. Keep in mind, I thin the Honda H23Vtec still has those damn FMR walls as well... ;-). If you want to build that for me for half the price, then be my guest!

[PawnShopCEO]

And to Peggy's response... GTFO! Why would I spend the equivalent to a legit Type R swap, for a phucking h23vtec that would still require me to pu pistons in it??? You obviously did not read the main purposes behind the build. Keep in mind, I thin the Honda H23Vtec still has those damn FMR walls as well... ;-). If you want to build that for me for half the price, then be my guest!

damn frm walls huh. The guys at Porsche are just morons too i guess. Damn frm walls.