Question about Muslims (Keep Civil Or Will Be Deleted)

[Jaimecbr900]

This topic is somewhere in between Politics and Religion, so I will post it here and let a moderator move it to the forum he/she sees fit.

I will lead off by saying that I am not the most versed person when it comes to the religion of Islam, so please do not take offense to this as a shot at the religion per se. It's more about people and mentality than directly about the religion. I am just wanting to know some things, and what better way to find out than to ask, right?

My question is:

Why is a religion that is said to be peaceful not stand up against violence that is perpetrated by people claiming to be of that religion?

More specifically, why is it that we see public outcry from Muslims all over the world, even death threats, over a caricature and over some words said by the Pope but we don't see massive protests or outcry over bombings/beheadings/killing all done while clearly claiming to be doing so as an act of religious faith?

I know that was a long ass sentence, but I couldn't break it up.

This is just a simple conversation starter and it's not meant to give ANYONE an opportunity to insult or bash Muslims. So please, don't make this into an US vs THEM type of debate. I have friends that are Muslim, some are even in IA, so don't make this an insult fest or I'll ask for it to be closed.

Anyone?

[The Yousef]

This topic is somewhere in between Politics and Religion, so I will post it here and let a moderator move it to the forum he/she sees fit.

I will lead off by saying that I am not the most versed person when it comes to the religion of Islam, so please do not take offense to this as a shot at the religion per se. It's more about people and mentality than directly about the religion. I am just wanting to know some things, and what better way to find out than to ask, right?

My question is:

Why is a religion that is said to be peaceful not stand up against violence that is perpetrated by people claiming to be of that religion?

More specifically, why is it that we see public outcry from Muslims all over the world, even death threats, over a caricature and over some words said by the Pope but we don't see massive protests or outcry over bombings/beheadings/killing all done while clearly claiming to be doing so as an act of religious faith?

I know that was a long ass sentence, but I couldn't break it up.

This is just a simple conversation starter and it's not meant to give ANYONE an opportunity to insult or bash Muslims. So please, don't make this into an US vs THEM type of debate. I have friends that are Muslim, some are even in IA, so don't make this an insult fest or I'll ask for it to be closed.

Anyone?

damn...i'm in class right now...i'll post up my opinion when i get home and have chance to ponder the above statement...

[Brett]

Jamie I have often wondered this myself. I brought this up when we all discussed this issue when the beheadings started, I dont understand how the Muslin world does not stand up against these few who use the faith as a excuse to do what they do and say its done in the word of Islam..... Maybe if the rest of the Peaceful Muslim/Islamic world would stand up, Protest, etc they wouldnt feel they have the backing and acceptance of the faith and thier god.

[Jaimecbr900]

I know that in certain parts of the world for someone to publicly denounce certain things would certainly mean you'd be damn near stoned to death, so I totally understand the represion aspect and possibility. That may be an answer.

I also know that some people may feel like there's not much their opinion would do against this kind of violence. That too may be an answer.

I just would like to get some more insight as to why this is so one-sided in my mind.

There has to be a reason behind it.

[Hulud]

man move this to the religion section, because there are gonna be some bullshit answers in the WL

[Jaimecbr900]

man move this to the religion section, because there are gonna be some bullshit answers in the WL

I thought that's where it probably belongs, but I wanted to get different kinds of inputs.

You may be right though. Let's see how it goes.

[Brett]

I also know that some people may feel like there's not much their opinion would do against this kind of violence. That too may be an answer.

I just would like to get some more insight as to why this is so one-sided in my mind.

There has to be a reason behind it.

true, But I think if terror cells who do these acts in the name of Islam felt the the faith does not back them, it would make an impact, because in thier eyes, they feel thier god will bring them to heaven for what they are doing and to me if the people of the islamic faith would stand up and make an outcry to how this is not what Islam is and the faith is not a backer of thier actions, they (The terrorists) wouldnt be so confient in what they do and feel its in the name of thier religion.

I do believe if when the First beheading happened, If the Islamic nations stood up and said "That is not acceptable, or even the terror attacks that go on are not acceptabe" they would not be able to attack in the name of what they believe is right, which in thier heads totally changes things.

Anyone who takes the time to understand the Muslim faith knows the teachings of Islam is a peaceful religion and do not back terrorism or any injustice that has been going on, But at the same time the people need to let terrorists know, Its not acceptable and its not what Islam preaches.

[LiL PaKi]

My question is:

Why is a religion that is said to be peaceful not stand up against violence that is perpetrated by people claiming to be of that religion?

More specifically, why is it that we see public outcry from Muslims all over the world, even death threats, over a caricature and over some words said by the Pope but we don't see massive protests or outcry over bombings/beheadings/killing all done while clearly claiming to be doing so as an act of religious faith?

I know that was a long ass sentence, but I couldn't break it up.

This is just a simple conversation starter and it's not meant to give ANYONE an opportunity to insult or bash Muslims. So please, don't make this into an US vs THEM type of debate. I have friends that are Muslim, some are even in IA, so don't make this an insult fest or I'll ask for it to be closed.

Anyone?

"In today's turbulent world, Islam is often on the front page - mostly for the wrong reasons. Islam means peace; yet some have taken this peaceful way of life and hijacked it into a violent way, and distorted their ideology for personal and political gains. Seeing a faith through explosive world events, and judging it by the actions of a misguided few, is the primary reasons why Islam is often misunderstood.

Islam is sometimes, intentionally misrepresented. Some politicians, religious leaders and media have found an ideal scapegoat in Islam. By associating Islam with the inhumane acts of a handful, they have been successful in driving larger numbers of people to vote for them; to donate towards their ministries; and to read their newspapers, watch their television programs and listen to their radio shows.

However, with an increasing number of Muslims speaking out against this falsehood; the true and peaceful nature of Islam is becoming more evident. Muslims are standing up against terrorism, against the persecution and killing of innocent people, and against those who perpetrate such injustice in the name of any faith.

The very word "Islam" means peace. A fifth of the world's population is reclaiming this peace as their chosen way of life." http://www.discoverislam.com/poster.asp?poster=DIP2004_24&page=1

i'll further discuss this once I get home....

[Hulud]

Jamie I have often wondered this myself. I brought this up when we all discussed this issue when the beheadings started, I dont understand how the Muslin world does not stand up against these few who use the faith as a excuse to do what they do and say its done in the word of Islam..... Maybe if the rest of the Peaceful Muslim/Islamic world would stand up, Protest, etc they wouldnt feel they have the backing and acceptance of the faith and thier god.

i have seen some things of people denouncing the violence, its not just on the front page of the paper. my guess is because the news people feel the american people want a group to claim as "the bad guys" rather than say its a bunch of different groups.

also i think people over in the mid east arent going to stand up and say something, because they will be killed. would you stand up and say something like that in the mid east? i dont think most of us would.

[LiL PaKi]

man move this to the religion section, because there are gonna be some bullshit answers in the WL

i concure...

[Hulud]

I thought that's where it probably belongs, but I wanted to get different kinds of inputs.

You may be right though. Let's see how it goes.

i agree with your idea of more inputs, but i will be VERY surprised if it stays civil, being that its the whoreslounge

[SLOWLYbtngU]

In all honesty I think it depends on the kind of Muslims and up bringing...The followers of the Islamic faith in America at times get upset because people assume that they are as fanatical or extreme as those that make the news...

About the out cry..Well in my opinon u have to see something wrong to cry out, but if u are raised to believe a certain thing throughout your life then why would that be considered wrong?

I am not saying that I believe that every single one of the beliefs that other religons, not just Islam, hold are good and great but I guess I just dont see it as any ONE particular person or group of people can distinguish what is right and wrong.

[Brett]

i have seen some things of people denouncing the violence, its not just on the front page of the paper. my guess is because the news people feel the american people want a group to claim as "the bad guys" rather than say its a bunch of different groups.

also i think people over in the mid east arent going to stand up and say something, because they will be killed. would you stand up and say something like that in the mid east? i dont think most of us would.

But see, they are getting killed now over in IRAQ anyways, These extremeists are killing muslims now, So why as a group not stand up to not only to stop terrorism against us, but on thier OWN PEOPLE? All it takes is to show that Muslims will not back it, and make clear Islam teaches peace, and thier sins will not be met by god or accepted.

[Jaimecbr900]

[b]"In today's turbulent world, Islam is often on the front page - mostly for the wrong reasons. Islam means peace; yet some have taken this peaceful way of life and hijacked it into a violent way, and distorted their ideology for personal and political gains. Seeing a faith through explosive world events, and judging it by the actions of a misguided few, is the primary reasons why Islam is often misunderstood.

This is exactly why I posted this question.

Islam is sometimes, intentionally misrepresented. Some politicians, religious leaders and media have found an ideal scapegoat in Islam. By associating Islam with the inhumane acts of a handful, they have been successful in driving larger numbers of people to vote for them; to donate towards their ministries; and to read their newspapers, watch their television programs and listen to their radio shows.

That was part of what I was getting to in my question; Wouldn't a public outcry against terrorism from the true Muslims go a long way towards changing this perception?

However, with an increasing number of Muslims speaking out against this falsehood; the true and peaceful nature of Islam is becoming more evident. Muslims are standing up against terrorism, against the persecution and killing of innocent people, and against those who perpetrate such injustice in the name of any faith.

Where?

i'll further discuss this once I get home....

Please do. I'm looking for input such as this.

[Hulud]

But see, they are getting killed now over in IRAQ anyways, These extremeists are killing muslims now, So why as a group not stand up to not only to stop terrorism against us, but on thier OWN PEOPLE? All it takes is to show that Muslims will not back it, and make clear Islam teaches peace, and thier sins will not be met by god or accepted.

easier said than done, when you dont know whos good and whos bad in a country with no control you dont know who to trust. so if you dont know who to trust, your not going to speak your mind, cause yuo will get killed.

also you gotta remember they dont have the govt to protect them and if they say something that pisses people off, you will have people wanting to kill you

[4dmin]

More specifically, why is it that we see public outcry from Muslims all over the world, even death threats, over a caricature and over some words said by the Pope but we don't see massive protests or outcry over bombings/beheadings/killing all done while clearly claiming to be doing so as an act of religious faith?

i don't know why people act surprised about muslims reactions i guess its b/c it is more socially acceptable to be apart of religions that burns people on crosses and bombs abortion clinics... but hey who am i to judge

[SLOWLYbtngU]

But see, they are getting killed now over in IRAQ anyways, These extremeists are killing muslims now, So why as a group not stand up to not only to stop terrorism against us, but on thier OWN PEOPLE? All it takes is to show that Muslims will not back it, and make clear Islam teaches peace, and thier sins will not be met by god or accepted.

NOt every group of people in this worls know how to come together...Amongst a community of thousands there are jsut as many personalities...Sure here in America we have the tendancy to unite...But think about it, normally something bad to extreme measures has to happen..

Besides once again, sure they cry and suffer but at the same time who is to say that these are not things that they have to endure in order to get to where they want to be in their religion??? Think about it in Christianity I am supposed to die to myself and therefore let God guide me...How do u know it isnt the same with them?

[SLOWLYbtngU]

easier said than done, when you dont know whos good and whos bad in a country with no control you dont know who to trust. so if you dont know who to trust, your not going to speak your mind, cause yuo will get killed.

also you gotta remember they dont have the govt to protect them and if they say something that pisses people off, you will have people wanting to kill you

Exactly, You do not know who is really on your side...So it is easier to stay out of it and jsut mind ur own business and pray that you are not the target of one of the crimes...

[Jaimecbr900]

i have seen some things of people denouncing the violence, its not just on the front page of the paper. my guess is because the news people feel the american people want a group to claim as "the bad guys" rather than say its a bunch of different groups.

Very true. Certain news sells more papers. Again, that is one of the options that I've thought about, but I've just always thought it had to be deeper than that.

also i think people over in the mid east arent going to stand up and say something, because they will be killed. would you stand up and say something like that in the mid east? i dont think most of us would.

Again, as I previously mentioned, I know persecution is no joking matter in certain parts of the world BUT........

IF you are truly a "peaceful" religion, why would you kill someone for merely not going along with your agenda?

Also, there are Muslims all over the world, not just the Middle East or third world countries. There are Muslims right here in Atlanta. Is not like those people would be in direct jeopardy of being tortured for standing up and denouncing terrorism, right?

[4dmin]

But see, they are getting killed now over in IRAQ anyways, These extremeists are killing muslims now, So why as a group not stand up to not only to stop terrorism against us, but on thier OWN PEOPLE? All it takes is to show that Muslims will not back it, and make clear Islam teaches peace, and thier sins will not be met by god or accepted.

lol Brett how come you and the rest of the Bush nazi's sound like tree hugging hippies during discussion such as this... WAR is WAR there are no rules.... we waged war on them we shall reap the reward of such actions. shit we have more gun related deaths in our country then any other. turn on the news you will hear about atleast 1 rape, 1 murder, 1 kidnapping every night. wake up we have the same thing outside our doors being commited by White/Black suburban commandos; just our killers aren't motivated by religion

[Jaimecbr900]

i don't know why people act surprised about muslims reactions i guess its b/c it is more socially acceptable to be apart of religions that burns people on crosses and bombs abortion clinics... but hey who am i to judge

But the big difference here to what you're eluding is that one thing happened HUNDREDS of years ago, and the other WAS denounced by the "Christian" faith very loudly indeed.

[4dmin]

But the big difference here to what you're eluding is that one thing happened HUNDREDS of years ago, and the other WAS denounced by the "Christian" faith very loudly indeed.

time frame and future denoucement doesn't make it any more right... so what your saying is if muslims say the terrorist acts were wrong 100 years from now that its fine to forget. sorry not buying it.

[Brett]

lol Brett how come you and the rest of the Bush nazi's sound like tree hugging hippies during discussion such as this... WAR is WAR there are no rules.... we waged war on them we shall reap the reward of such actions. shit we have more gun related deaths in our country then any other. turn on the news you will hear about atleast 1 rape, 1 murder, 1 kidnapping every night. wake up we have the same thing outside our doors being commited by White/Black suburban commandos; just our killers aren't motivated by religion

Dude, how does this have to do with Bush or my support of Bush? Im just saying in General I am with Jamie, that I dont understand why a religion does not stand up for what is going on in parts of the world and denounce the violence, etc. How is that tree hugging?

[Jaimecbr900]

lol Brett how come you and the rest of the Bush nazi's sound like tree hugging hippies during discussion such as this... WAR is WAR there are no rules.... we waged war on them we shall reap the reward of such actions. shit we have more gun related deaths in our country then any other. turn on the news you will hear about atleast 1 rape, 1 murder, 1 kidnapping every night. wake up we have the same thing outside our doors being commited by White/Black suburban commandos; just our killers aren't motivated by religion

Death may indeed be Death, but when you MURDER someone while shouting out that you are doing so for your FAITH, there is a difference.

How many of those "urban commandos" kill in the name of their God?

That's the difference.

[Brett]

Death may indeed be Death, but when you MURDER someone while shouting out that you are doing so for your FAITH, there is a difference.

How many of those "urban commandos" kill in the name of their God?

That's the difference.

THANK YOU!!! Thats what I am saying, We all know Paul that in war thier are no rules, But when killing people in terror attacks here or abroad in the name of Allah is bullshit, Im sorry if you dont agree, and I truley believe if a religion stood up and said "NO MORE" it might (MIGHT) make a difference, but when no one says anything, they feel they have the backing of the muslim world and that its okay to MURDER in the name if Islam.

[Jaimecbr900]

time frame and future denoucement doesn't make it any more right... so what your saying is if muslims say the terrorist acts were wrong 100 years from now that its fine to forget. sorry not buying it.

What makes you think that Christians didn't denounce witch hunts back when they occured?

What about the almost instant denouncement of abortion clinic bombings? I believe even the Pope got involved in that one if memory serves me correct.

I'm 1000% sure that if there was some type of organized outcry from the Muslim community just about anywhere in the free world, it would show up on the news. I'm not talking about speaking to a single person for a news bleep. I'm talking about the type of organized outcry such as the one over the caricature or the Pope speaking the other day. THAT made the news. Why wouldn't someone standing up and saying "hey, these people are using MY PEACEFUL and RIGHTEOUS RELIGION to hide behind THEIR OWN agenda and I don't like it....."

[4dmin]

Death may indeed be Death, but when you MURDER someone while shouting out that you are doing so for your FAITH, there is a difference.

How many of those "urban commandos" kill in the name of their God?

That's the difference.

movtives of the insane/misunderstood do not matter... if i killed you in the name of the devil would it make it any different if i just killed you. your still dead just b/c i put a iconic motive to it doesn't say anything.

the problem w/ this country is we have shot ourself in the foot... we put our selves in this situation now are are back pedaling out of it... countries like US, UK, have pushed for WAR and when WAR is brought to us we whine about it. just like the pope opening his mouth about muslims... that has to be the dumbest thing in the world to discuss... hey let me discuss politics in the middle of a religious war... why don't you just give them a nuke and key to your house.

[Brett]

Why wouldn't someone standing up and saying "hey, these people are using MY PEACEFUL and RIGHTEOUS RELIGION to hide behind THEIR OWN agenda and I don't like it....."

Which in turn would take away the very thing terrorists truley believe they are fighting for.

[4dmin]

What makes you think that Christians didn't denounce witch hunts back when they occured?

What about the almost instant denouncement of abortion clinic bombings? I believe even the Pope got involved in that one if memory serves me correct.

I'm 1000% sure that if there was some type of organized outcry from the Muslim community just about anywhere in the free world, it would show up on the news. I'm not talking about speaking to a single person for a news bleep. I'm talking about the type of organized outcry such as the one over the caricature or the Pope speaking the other day. THAT made the news. Why wouldn't someone standing up and saying "hey, these people are using MY PEACEFUL and RIGHTEOUS RELIGION to hide behind THEIR OWN agenda and I don't like it....."

bahhhhhhh denoucement they churches designed witch hunts so who are the people denoucing... the ones burning?

as for abortion clinics you name the pope... the same guy who stood by while known sex offenders are running his churches. sounds like a credible guy.

do you guys honestly think any MUSLIM group is going to speak out... hello their mosque are being watched already w/ a close eye by our gov'ts and they already have a civil war going on between their people. why would you speak out tell me what will it gain you?

[LiL PaKi]

easier said than done, when you dont know whos good and whos bad in a country with no control you dont know who to trust. so if you dont know who to trust, your not going to speak your mind, cause yuo will get killed.

also you gotta remember they dont have the govt to protect them and if they say something that pisses people off, you will have people wanting to kill you

People claim they are Muslim and doing it for Islam.. i'm no one to judge, i'll leave that to God...

However, killing innocent people isn't Islamic nor acceptable in any religion... yes, it's there and how are u to stop people you can't find? (ie. Osama bin Laden and the taliban)

If the people try to fight back they may get shot. We are talking about poor countries and how they may not be ready to lose their families but they are doing it for Islam and to protect the name and God williingly they will be accepted into paradise.

This type of war/fight back would be considered Jihad, Jihad may reflect the war aspects in Islam. Jihad is as presented in war in the name of justice or Islam, to deter an aggressor, for self defense, and/or to establish justice and freedom to practice religion, would the Quran and any of the other scriptures implies the striving of spiritual good. This Jihad particularly involves change in one's self and mentality. It may concern the sacrifice of material property, social class and even emotional comfort solely for the salvation and worship of God Alone.

The day will come when every soul will serve as its own advocate, and every soul will be paid fully for whatever it had done, without the least injustice." (16:111).
" The day will come when each soul will find all the good works it had done brought forth. As for the evil works, it will wish that they were far, far removed. GOD alerts you that you shall reverence Him alone. GOD is Compassionate towards the people. " (3:30).

"You shall strive for the cause of GOD as you should strive for His cause. " (22:78).
In Brief; the meaning the media gives to this word (Jihad) is false. This word does not mean a holy war, for there is nothing holy about a war in Islam. There are times when war is tolerated, permitted and even, in some case, to a point accepted, but never considered holy. Islam is a religion of peace, no matter what certain media or deranged individuals say or claim.

[Dragonfly5338]

My take on it is, I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of muslims in the middle east who don't agree with the extremists. However, if the situation was reversed and you were put in the position that if you publicly stated you didn't agree with what was happening, you'd be putting your children's or family's lives in danger?

If they don't care about beheading innocent american civilians, why would they care about beheading an innocent muslim who spoke his mind about what they were doing?

The key word is TERRORIST here, not muslim. These people are NOT following the muslim faith, but they have power over people who are true muslims. How do they get this power? Fear, oppression and threats. I sure as heck wouldn't stand up (key word here is publicly) and say our government is wrong if two days later my child or myself could end up dead.

We've grown up in a world where we've been taught to question authority, and to not take things at face value. Our philosophy would be MUCH different if we weren't taught that, hence the many muslims brought up in America who actively voice opposition to the acts the extremists are commiting in the name of their religion. You notice most of the people doing this are Muslim-americans? Because they're not scared.

Y'all can talk all you like about how us as Americans would look at muslims in a better light if they would stand up and protest what's happening, but until you're in that situation you have no room to talk, especially from your comfy chair in your nice office, knowing your wife and children are safe at home.

[LiL PaKi]

The key word is TERRORIST here, not muslim. These people are NOT following the muslim faith, but they have power over people who are true muslims. .

[4dmin]

My take on it is, I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of muslims in the middle east who don't agree with the extremists. However, if the situation was reversed and you were put in the position that if you publicly stated you didn't agree with what was happening, you'd be putting your children's or family's lives in danger?

If they don't care about beheading innocent american civilians, why would they care about beheading an innocent muslim who spoke his mind about what they were doing?

The key word is TERRORIST here, not muslim. These people are NOT following the muslim faith, but they have power over people who are true muslims. How do they get this power? Fear, oppression and threats. I sure as heck wouldn't stand up (key word here is publicly) and say our government is wrong if two days later my child or myself could end up dead.

We've grown up in a world where we've been taught to question authority, and to not take things at face value. Our philosophy would be MUCH different if we weren't taught that, hence the many muslims brought up in America who actively voice opposition to the acts the extremists are commiting in the name of their religion. You notice most of the people doing this are Muslim-americans? Because they're not scared.

Y'all can talk all you like about how us as Americans would look at muslims in a better light if they would stand up and protest what's happening, but until you're in that situation you have no room to talk, especially from your comfy chair in your nice office, knowing your wife and children are safe at home.

dayum straight FUCK OPRAH val for president

[LiL PaKi]

well time to finish studying i'll respond later...

[LiL PaKi]

dayum straight FUCK OPRAH val for president

i second that.. hehe

[RandomGuy]

but when no one says anything, they feel they have the backing of the muslim world and that its okay to MURDER in the name if Islam.

hrm... so no one says anything... no one ever says "islam is a religion of peace"

Hrm, so its safe to conclude that we're terrorists since we're not fulfilling our "assigned religious duty" to speak out against negative media representation towards Islam? Kind of reminds me of Bush's: "If you're not with us, you're one of them" shit. If only we were like christians, with no sinful interpreters, no people who do immoral things in the name of god...

come to my mosque on friday .... listen to 1 speech.
thats all.

Anyways the ignorance in this thread is offensive. Especially from someone like Jamiecbr. [/serious RG]

[RandomGuy]

The key word is TERRORIST here, not Muslim.

hrm i thought that was synonymous

[HvyArms]

I wish I could respond to this, but Im working.

[Hulud]

IF you are truly a "peaceful" religion, why would you kill someone for merely not going along with your agenda?

Also, there are Muslims all over the world, not just the Middle East or third world countries. There are Muslims right here in Atlanta. Is not like those people would be in direct jeopardy of being tortured for standing up and denouncing terrorism, right?

i dont know man, maybe your just not looking for them speaking out

[{X}Echo419]

The key word is TERRORIST here, not muslim. These people are NOT following the muslim faith, but they have power over people who are true muslims. How do they get this power? Fear, oppression and threats. I sure as heck wouldn't stand up (key word here is publicly) and say our government is wrong if two days later my child or myself could end up dead.

dayum straight FUCK OPRAH val for president

why don't you(or anyone else for that matter) accept the so called "Christians" bombing abortion clinic the same way?

side: you can't excuse someone's bad behavior with someone elses bad behavior?