Question about Muslims (Keep Civil Or Will Be Deleted)

[Brett]

Death may indeed be Death, but when you MURDER someone while shouting out that you are doing so for your FAITH, there is a difference.

How many of those "urban commandos" kill in the name of their God?

That's the difference.

THANK YOU!!! Thats what I am saying, We all know Paul that in war thier are no rules, But when killing people in terror attacks here or abroad in the name of Allah is bullshit, Im sorry if you dont agree, and I truley believe if a religion stood up and said "NO MORE" it might (MIGHT) make a difference, but when no one says anything, they feel they have the backing of the muslim world and that its okay to MURDER in the name if Islam.

[RandomGuy]

but when no one says anything, they feel they have the backing of the muslim world and that its okay to MURDER in the name if Islam.

hrm... so no one says anything... no one ever says "islam is a religion of peace"

Hrm, so its safe to conclude that we're terrorists since we're not fulfilling our "assigned religious duty" to speak out against negative media representation towards Islam? Kind of reminds me of Bush's: "If you're not with us, you're one of them" shit. If only we were like christians, with no sinful interpreters, no people who do immoral things in the name of god...

come to my mosque on friday .... listen to 1 speech.
thats all.

Anyways the ignorance in this thread is offensive. Especially from someone like Jamiecbr. [/serious RG]

[Jaimecbr900]

Anyways the ignorance in this thread is offensive. Especially from someone like Jamiecbr. [/serious RG]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[RandomGuy]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

i valued your fuckin opinions and judgements on lots of the other threads in the civil forum... But seriously, something like this, from you.

Firstly, you're saying that Islam is one sort of big unified religion. Hrm... if someone said "You aren't muslim if you do ___ and ___" (which has happened), then that same ideal would be accepted by all of the various other belief holding groups!? You know for a fuckin fact that, even in christianity, there are even fueds between different congregations, let alone different denominations.

Hrm but i forget that all of us "terrorists" are of the same breed or spawn, we walk holding hands, etc right? We make terroristic decisions in tandem. Unlike Christianity, which is one big peaceful and unified religion. All of them recognize the Pope don't they?


There are just as many denominations within Islam if not more, than Christianity, but they aren't as clear cut. Some of the SMALLER ONES... as in VERY SMALL percentage, the misguided ones are the ones which are causing headlines,and the Media is, intentionally, grouping us into the whole schema of things.

More specifically, why is it that we see public outcry from Muslims all over the world, even death threats, over a caricature and over some words said by the Pope but we don't see massive protests or outcry over bombings/beheadings/killing all done while clearly claiming to be doing so as an act of religious faith?

That's because it was offensive, they were showing so, (do you know how many NONVIOLENT protests there were?!)... But the headlines of course would portray the OTHER misled ones' actions.... and group them into the mainstream Muslims right?

[Jaimecbr900]

i valued your fuckin opinions and judgements on lots of the other threads in the civil forum... But seriously, something like this, from you.

Firstly, you're saying that Islam is one sort of big unified religion. Hrm... if someone said "You aren't muslim if you do ___ and ___" (which has happened), then that same ideal would be accepted by all of the various other belief holding groups!? You know for a fuckin fact that, even in christianity, there are even fueds between different congregations, let alone different denominations.

#1. Thank you for that, although you did use the past tense in that verb up there so......

#2. I'm not trying to glob anyone together. All I'm trying to say is that why don't people like you who are obviously on the "good" side of the Muslim religion simply say, "hey, these crazy people are making all of US look bad by association (right or wrong), so I'm going to stand up and say that's NOT WHAT A TRUE MUSLIM is about!!!!" You will never be able to convince everyone that is closed off to the idea, but you will show considerably more that this in fact is NOT how your religion views the world. See, right now they (the crazy ones) have a louder bull horn than you do, although there are more of you than them. Why not change that?

Hrm but i forget that all of us "terrorists" are of the same breed or spawn, we walk holding hands, etc right? We make terroristic decisions in tandem. Unlike Christianity, which is one big peaceful and unified religion. All of them recognize the Pope don't they?

The only sect of Christianity that follows the Pope is the Catholics. I'm not Catholic, although most of my family is, so I don't recognize the Pope as "my" leader.

I do understand what you're saying because I guess it would be hard for any religion to merely unite into any cause. Maybe I'm wording it incorrectly or like I said before maybe I'm just merely not seeing those public outcries that are/were in fact there. That's why I'm asking. Someone please help me see that and I will be glad to learn something I didn't know.

There are just as many denominations within Islam if not more, than Christianity, but they aren't as clear cut. Some of the SMALLER ONES... as in VERY SMALL percentage, the misguided ones are the ones which are causing headlines,and the Media is, intentionally, grouping us into the whole schema of things.

Learned something new today. I had no idea that there were lots of Islamic denominations per se. I understood that just like in any religion there are extreme rights and lefts, while most are somewhere in the middle. I guess Islam is the same.

That's because it was offensive, they were showing so, (do you know how many NONVIOLENT protests there were?!)... But the headlines of course would portray the OTHER misled ones' actions.... and group them into the mainstream Muslims right?

I didn't follow you here.

[RandomGuy]

#1. Thank you for that, although you did use the past tense in that verb up there so......

Didn't mean that was just heated after seeing something like that.

#2. I'm not trying to glob anyone together. All I'm trying to say is that why don't people like you who are obviously on the "good" side of the Muslim religion simply say, "hey, these crazy people are making all of US look bad by association (right or wrong), so I'm going to stand up and say that's NOT WHAT A TRUE MUSLIM is about!!!!" You will never be able to convince everyone that is closed off to the idea, but you will show considerably more that this in fact is NOT how your religion views the world. See, right now they (the crazy ones) have a louder bull horn than you do, although there are more of you than them. Why not change that?

Just for the record, Where do you get your information? The media, right? Well as I already said, the Media is not on our side. What you do not know (and also the reason I invited you guys to my mosque)... Is to hear the surmons. How angry they are at the people who have made Islam portrayed in this light. They give many, many ways to help... Many people even go overseas at the source... as sort of "missionary" type missions... But get found with "ties to al-queda". (you'd be surprised with how many people get these)
ON MANY MANY DIFFERENT OCCAISIONS THE MAINSTREAM MUSLIM POPULATION DENOUNCES 'TERRORISM' OR VIOLENT ACTS BY OTHER 'MUSLIM INDIVIDUALS
My friend's dad is a high up at the giant mosque in down town, he gives many speeches, etc. You should def attend one.

The only sect of Christianity that follows the Pope is the Catholics. I'm not Catholic, although most of my family is, so I don't recognize the Pope as "my" leader.

the denotes sarcasm

I do understand what you're saying because I guess it would be hard for any religion to merely unite into any cause. Maybe I'm wording it incorrectly or like I said before maybe I'm just merely not seeing those public outcries that are/were in fact there. That's why I'm asking. Someone please help me see that and I will be glad to learn something I didn't know.

And plus there are many more facets to this debate... Lol but i do not want to get into that, not here, specially when i don't have links to sources on hand.
But this whole issue is a mixture of two issues... Two completely separate issues... which are, again, grouped up into 1. It is both a religious issue, as well as a political issue. For example, a US soldier kills someone. This person is
merely a soldier in duty, right? Now say a Palestinian civilian-militia member kills invaders encroaching upon his territory. The conflict between political parties (in the region) is based on religion, right? This is irrelevant with the killing. Just by the fact that he is Muslim, he is immediately labeled a terrorist. It is this that the media has achieved. And MOST DEFINITELY INTENTIONALLY.

Learned something new today. I had no idea that there were lots of Islamic denominations per se. I understood that just like in any religion there are extreme rights and lefts, while most are somewhere in the middle. I guess Islam is the same.

yessir.

I didn't follow you here.

As far as the Danish cartoons go, for example. There was an outrage, yes. Now as far as "violence". How many muslims are there in the world? Those "violent" incidents could be counted on your hands... yet the media blew it up for it to apply to all of Islam, Why?



Another thing that heats my balls is the term terrorism. But thats another thread.

[Brett]

hrm... so no one says anything... no one ever says "islam is a religion of peace"

Hrm, so its safe to conclude that we're terrorists since we're not fulfilling our "assigned religious duty" to speak out against negative media representation towards Islam? Kind of reminds me of Bush's: "If you're not with us, you're one of them" shit. If only we were like christians, with no sinful interpreters, no people who do immoral things in the name of god...

come to my mosque on friday .... listen to 1 speech.
thats all.

Anyways the ignorance in this thread is offensive. Especially from someone like Jamiecbr. [/serious RG]

Who here is being ignorrant? No one is bashing Islam or the muslim faith, Its just a question on why more people dont speak out when we all know the true teachings of Islam is peace, so the few who try and do wrong in the name of Islam dont get denounced, No one in here is saying Muslims as a whole are bad, Its a VERY FEW who are extremesists who take th eteachings and twist it to suit thier beliefs, we all understand that, What we are asking is why a large portion of a group doesnt stand up against the FEW who take it in the wrong direction.

[RandomGuy]

so the few who try and do wrong in the name of Islam dont get denounced,

ok if u say so

[Brett]

ok if u say so

Case and point, You are trying to twist a simple question into what you want it to be and and act like people are attacking a faith here.

[RandomGuy]

Case and point, You are trying to twist a simple question into what you want it to be and and act like people are attacking a faith here.

...

Why is a religion that is said to be peaceful not stand up against violence that is perpetrated by people claiming to be of that religion?

dissect that sentence. Tell me that is not blatantly attacking a faith.

Why is a religion that is said to be peaceful

what does that imply? (just look at how the sentence is structured).... Hrm... You're right.

[Jaimecbr900]

...



dissect that sentence. Tell me that is not blatantly attacking a faith.

How so?

[Jaimecbr900]

To be honest, noone has yet to answer my question directly.

We have discussed and gotten way off course from Islam to Christianity to witch hunts to stereotypes.

My question is this:

How come we see the "Islamic" community very upset about a caricature and about what the Pope said, but we don't see the same type of outcry for atrocities being done in the name of their own religion?

Is it because of the bias media?

Is it because I'm ill informed?

Is it because its not there?

Is it because they are afraid to speak out due to threats?

Is it because there in fact has been outcry but we just don't know?

That and any other variation is what I'm looking for. I said since the very beginning this was not an Us vs Them debate.

I don't defend pedophile priests. I don't condone violence in the name of my religion. I only follow what I feel is right. I don't try and convert anyone to my belief system at all. That's not what this discussion is about. I'm merely trying to get to the bottom of why things like this look like this. I know it has to be much deeper than what the bias media makes it out to be. Hence why I asked.

I knew we had a bunch of terrori.....ooops, I mean cool level headed Muslims in this bunch so I knew I'd get honest responses.......btw, that was an attempt at a joke so noone get all bent out shape about it OK>

[RandomGuy]

How come we see the "Islamic" community very upset about a caricature and about what the Pope said, but we don't see the same type of outcry for atrocities being done in the name of their own religion?

therein lies the answer.