Question about Muslims (Keep Civil Or Will Be Deleted)

[Brett]

i have seen some things of people denouncing the violence, its not just on the front page of the paper. my guess is because the news people feel the american people want a group to claim as "the bad guys" rather than say its a bunch of different groups.

also i think people over in the mid east arent going to stand up and say something, because they will be killed. would you stand up and say something like that in the mid east? i dont think most of us would.

But see, they are getting killed now over in IRAQ anyways, These extremeists are killing muslims now, So why as a group not stand up to not only to stop terrorism against us, but on thier OWN PEOPLE? All it takes is to show that Muslims will not back it, and make clear Islam teaches peace, and thier sins will not be met by god or accepted.

[Hulud]

But see, they are getting killed now over in IRAQ anyways, These extremeists are killing muslims now, So why as a group not stand up to not only to stop terrorism against us, but on thier OWN PEOPLE? All it takes is to show that Muslims will not back it, and make clear Islam teaches peace, and thier sins will not be met by god or accepted.

easier said than done, when you dont know whos good and whos bad in a country with no control you dont know who to trust. so if you dont know who to trust, your not going to speak your mind, cause yuo will get killed.

also you gotta remember they dont have the govt to protect them and if they say something that pisses people off, you will have people wanting to kill you

[SLOWLYbtngU]

easier said than done, when you dont know whos good and whos bad in a country with no control you dont know who to trust. so if you dont know who to trust, your not going to speak your mind, cause yuo will get killed.

also you gotta remember they dont have the govt to protect them and if they say something that pisses people off, you will have people wanting to kill you

Exactly, You do not know who is really on your side...So it is easier to stay out of it and jsut mind ur own business and pray that you are not the target of one of the crimes...

[LiL PaKi]

easier said than done, when you dont know whos good and whos bad in a country with no control you dont know who to trust. so if you dont know who to trust, your not going to speak your mind, cause yuo will get killed.

also you gotta remember they dont have the govt to protect them and if they say something that pisses people off, you will have people wanting to kill you

People claim they are Muslim and doing it for Islam.. i'm no one to judge, i'll leave that to God...

However, killing innocent people isn't Islamic nor acceptable in any religion... yes, it's there and how are u to stop people you can't find? (ie. Osama bin Laden and the taliban)

If the people try to fight back they may get shot. We are talking about poor countries and how they may not be ready to lose their families but they are doing it for Islam and to protect the name and God williingly they will be accepted into paradise.

This type of war/fight back would be considered Jihad, Jihad may reflect the war aspects in Islam. Jihad is as presented in war in the name of justice or Islam, to deter an aggressor, for self defense, and/or to establish justice and freedom to practice religion, would the Quran and any of the other scriptures implies the striving of spiritual good. This Jihad particularly involves change in one's self and mentality. It may concern the sacrifice of material property, social class and even emotional comfort solely for the salvation and worship of God Alone.

The day will come when every soul will serve as its own advocate, and every soul will be paid fully for whatever it had done, without the least injustice." (16:111).
" The day will come when each soul will find all the good works it had done brought forth. As for the evil works, it will wish that they were far, far removed. GOD alerts you that you shall reverence Him alone. GOD is Compassionate towards the people. " (3:30).

"You shall strive for the cause of GOD as you should strive for His cause. " (22:78).
In Brief; the meaning the media gives to this word (Jihad) is false. This word does not mean a holy war, for there is nothing holy about a war in Islam. There are times when war is tolerated, permitted and even, in some case, to a point accepted, but never considered holy. Islam is a religion of peace, no matter what certain media or deranged individuals say or claim.

[MongolPup]

There are times when war is tolerated, permitted and even, in some case, to a point accepted, but never considered holy. Islam is a religion of peace, no matter what certain media or deranged individuals say or claim.

Remember, the Christians are the same way. The first "Crusades" were indeed called by the pope, but then later people would just "call" them themselves. If we had had this conversation a couple hundred years ago, we would be saying "damn Christians, seems like every couple of years they go and fuck shit up."

Sadly I need to go to work, so if someone wants to refute this or w/e you may have to wait a bit.

[SLOWLYbtngU]

But see, they are getting killed now over in IRAQ anyways, These extremeists are killing muslims now, So why as a group not stand up to not only to stop terrorism against us, but on thier OWN PEOPLE? All it takes is to show that Muslims will not back it, and make clear Islam teaches peace, and thier sins will not be met by god or accepted.

NOt every group of people in this worls know how to come together...Amongst a community of thousands there are jsut as many personalities...Sure here in America we have the tendancy to unite...But think about it, normally something bad to extreme measures has to happen..

Besides once again, sure they cry and suffer but at the same time who is to say that these are not things that they have to endure in order to get to where they want to be in their religion??? Think about it in Christianity I am supposed to die to myself and therefore let God guide me...How do u know it isnt the same with them?

[4dmin]

But see, they are getting killed now over in IRAQ anyways, These extremeists are killing muslims now, So why as a group not stand up to not only to stop terrorism against us, but on thier OWN PEOPLE? All it takes is to show that Muslims will not back it, and make clear Islam teaches peace, and thier sins will not be met by god or accepted.

lol Brett how come you and the rest of the Bush nazi's sound like tree hugging hippies during discussion such as this... WAR is WAR there are no rules.... we waged war on them we shall reap the reward of such actions. shit we have more gun related deaths in our country then any other. turn on the news you will hear about atleast 1 rape, 1 murder, 1 kidnapping every night. wake up we have the same thing outside our doors being commited by White/Black suburban commandos; just our killers aren't motivated by religion

[Brett]

lol Brett how come you and the rest of the Bush nazi's sound like tree hugging hippies during discussion such as this... WAR is WAR there are no rules.... we waged war on them we shall reap the reward of such actions. shit we have more gun related deaths in our country then any other. turn on the news you will hear about atleast 1 rape, 1 murder, 1 kidnapping every night. wake up we have the same thing outside our doors being commited by White/Black suburban commandos; just our killers aren't motivated by religion

Dude, how does this have to do with Bush or my support of Bush? Im just saying in General I am with Jamie, that I dont understand why a religion does not stand up for what is going on in parts of the world and denounce the violence, etc. How is that tree hugging?

[Jaimecbr900]

lol Brett how come you and the rest of the Bush nazi's sound like tree hugging hippies during discussion such as this... WAR is WAR there are no rules.... we waged war on them we shall reap the reward of such actions. shit we have more gun related deaths in our country then any other. turn on the news you will hear about atleast 1 rape, 1 murder, 1 kidnapping every night. wake up we have the same thing outside our doors being commited by White/Black suburban commandos; just our killers aren't motivated by religion

Death may indeed be Death, but when you MURDER someone while shouting out that you are doing so for your FAITH, there is a difference.

How many of those "urban commandos" kill in the name of their God?

That's the difference.

[Brett]

Death may indeed be Death, but when you MURDER someone while shouting out that you are doing so for your FAITH, there is a difference.

How many of those "urban commandos" kill in the name of their God?

That's the difference.

THANK YOU!!! Thats what I am saying, We all know Paul that in war thier are no rules, But when killing people in terror attacks here or abroad in the name of Allah is bullshit, Im sorry if you dont agree, and I truley believe if a religion stood up and said "NO MORE" it might (MIGHT) make a difference, but when no one says anything, they feel they have the backing of the muslim world and that its okay to MURDER in the name if Islam.

[RandomGuy]

but when no one says anything, they feel they have the backing of the muslim world and that its okay to MURDER in the name if Islam.

hrm... so no one says anything... no one ever says "islam is a religion of peace"

Hrm, so its safe to conclude that we're terrorists since we're not fulfilling our "assigned religious duty" to speak out against negative media representation towards Islam? Kind of reminds me of Bush's: "If you're not with us, you're one of them" shit. If only we were like christians, with no sinful interpreters, no people who do immoral things in the name of god...

come to my mosque on friday .... listen to 1 speech.
thats all.

Anyways the ignorance in this thread is offensive. Especially from someone like Jamiecbr. [/serious RG]

[Jaimecbr900]

Anyways the ignorance in this thread is offensive. Especially from someone like Jamiecbr. [/serious RG]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[RandomGuy]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

i valued your fuckin opinions and judgements on lots of the other threads in the civil forum... But seriously, something like this, from you.

Firstly, you're saying that Islam is one sort of big unified religion. Hrm... if someone said "You aren't muslim if you do ___ and ___" (which has happened), then that same ideal would be accepted by all of the various other belief holding groups!? You know for a fuckin fact that, even in christianity, there are even fueds between different congregations, let alone different denominations.

Hrm but i forget that all of us "terrorists" are of the same breed or spawn, we walk holding hands, etc right? We make terroristic decisions in tandem. Unlike Christianity, which is one big peaceful and unified religion. All of them recognize the Pope don't they?


There are just as many denominations within Islam if not more, than Christianity, but they aren't as clear cut. Some of the SMALLER ONES... as in VERY SMALL percentage, the misguided ones are the ones which are causing headlines,and the Media is, intentionally, grouping us into the whole schema of things.

More specifically, why is it that we see public outcry from Muslims all over the world, even death threats, over a caricature and over some words said by the Pope but we don't see massive protests or outcry over bombings/beheadings/killing all done while clearly claiming to be doing so as an act of religious faith?

That's because it was offensive, they were showing so, (do you know how many NONVIOLENT protests there were?!)... But the headlines of course would portray the OTHER misled ones' actions.... and group them into the mainstream Muslims right?

[Brett]

hrm... so no one says anything... no one ever says "islam is a religion of peace"

Hrm, so its safe to conclude that we're terrorists since we're not fulfilling our "assigned religious duty" to speak out against negative media representation towards Islam? Kind of reminds me of Bush's: "If you're not with us, you're one of them" shit. If only we were like christians, with no sinful interpreters, no people who do immoral things in the name of god...

come to my mosque on friday .... listen to 1 speech.
thats all.

Anyways the ignorance in this thread is offensive. Especially from someone like Jamiecbr. [/serious RG]

Who here is being ignorrant? No one is bashing Islam or the muslim faith, Its just a question on why more people dont speak out when we all know the true teachings of Islam is peace, so the few who try and do wrong in the name of Islam dont get denounced, No one in here is saying Muslims as a whole are bad, Its a VERY FEW who are extremesists who take th eteachings and twist it to suit thier beliefs, we all understand that, What we are asking is why a large portion of a group doesnt stand up against the FEW who take it in the wrong direction.

[RandomGuy]

so the few who try and do wrong in the name of Islam dont get denounced,

ok if u say so

[4dmin]

Death may indeed be Death, but when you MURDER someone while shouting out that you are doing so for your FAITH, there is a difference.

How many of those "urban commandos" kill in the name of their God?

That's the difference.

movtives of the insane/misunderstood do not matter... if i killed you in the name of the devil would it make it any different if i just killed you. your still dead just b/c i put a iconic motive to it doesn't say anything.

the problem w/ this country is we have shot ourself in the foot... we put our selves in this situation now are are back pedaling out of it... countries like US, UK, have pushed for WAR and when WAR is brought to us we whine about it. just like the pope opening his mouth about muslims... that has to be the dumbest thing in the world to discuss... hey let me discuss politics in the middle of a religious war... why don't you just give them a nuke and key to your house.

[Jaimecbr900]

movtives of the insane/misunderstood do not matter... if i killed you in the name of the devil would it make it any different if i just killed you. your still dead just b/c i put a iconic motive to it doesn't say anything.

It would say a lot about devil worshipers if they stood by and said "hmmm, Ok this guy is killing and making us look bad.....nah, it's alright, let him keep doing it...." Yes sir, it does say a lot about someone.

the problem w/ this country is we have shot ourself in the foot... we put our selves in this situation now are are back pedaling out of it... countries like US, UK, have pushed for WAR and when WAR is brought to us we whine about it. just like the pope opening his mouth about muslims... that has to be the dumbest thing in the world to discuss... hey let me discuss politics in the middle of a religious war... why don't you just give them a nuke and key to your house.

Is that like the Elephant in the room thing?

So, let me get this straight: You are proposing that people stand perfectly still and hope that the wasp flying around doesn't sting you? What do you do when it gets ON you? Do you stand there and let it sting you or do you swat it?

So "speaking out" against crazy self proclaimed Muslims (because I don't think they're true Muslims) is a big NO NO because what? They're gonna get mad and kill people........hmmmm, anyone see the irony here?

[4dmin]

It would say a lot about devil worshipers if they stood by and said "hmmm, Ok this guy is killing and making us look bad.....nah, it's alright, let him keep doing it...." Yes sir, it does say a lot about someone.




Is that like the Elephant in the room thing?

So, let me get this straight: You are proposing that people stand perfectly still and hope that the wasp flying around doesn't sting you? What do you do when it gets ON you? Do you stand there and let it sting you or do you swat it?

So "speaking out" against crazy self proclaimed Muslims (because I don't think they're true Muslims) is a big NO NO because what? They're gonna get mad and kill people........hmmmm, anyone see the irony here?

Ok let me break it down... imagine your a "black man"... would you walk into a Nazi biker bar and call them out?

Sorry not going to happen... anyone in their right mind isn't going to speak out against terrorist in their back yard. Ever seen the Godfather? yup.

[Dragonfly5338]

It would say a lot about devil worshipers if they stood by and said "hmmm, Ok this guy is killing and making us look bad.....nah, it's alright, let him keep doing it...." Yes sir, it does say a lot about someone.




Is that like the Elephant in the room thing?

So, let me get this straight: You are proposing that people stand perfectly still and hope that the wasp flying around doesn't sting you? What do you do when it gets ON you? Do you stand there and let it sting you or do you swat it?

So "speaking out" against crazy self proclaimed Muslims (because I don't think they're true Muslims) is a big NO NO because what? They're gonna get mad and kill people........hmmmm, anyone see the irony here?

The same thing is happening in this country though, albeit in a very smaller scale. What happened when the war first started and people protested? They were told "Get the fuck out of this country if you don't support it" by a MINORITY of people who have an EXTREMIST mindset about how this country should be run.

Now take that, multiply it by a thousand, and give them guns, bombs, knives, etc.

Muslims did stand up and call the pope an idiot when he opened his mouth and showed his ignorance. They DID stand up and protest when 9/11 happened.

You're wanting people who have been thrown in a middle of a war without their choosing to stand up and publicly protest?? I'd be more worried about my ass getting bombed on accident, to be honest.

Plus, do you REALLY think USA today is going to have a front page paper with "Peaceful Muslims say Terrorists are Bad"?? No, they go for the good stuff about extremists blowing themselves up and blowing up school buses.

[4dmin]

ThPlus, do you REALLY think USA today is going to have a front page paper with "Peaceful Muslims say Terrorists are Bad"?? No, they go for the good stuff about extremists blowing themselves up and blowing up school buses.

val you have no idea what your talking about... usa today covers butterfly covered meadows filled w/ unicorns and cute shit... thats what sells magazines... oh that and Tom Cruise's new baby pix

[Jaimecbr900]

The same thing is happening in this country though, albeit in a very smaller scale. What happened when the war first started and people protested? They were told "Get the fuck out of this country if you don't support it" by a MINORITY of people who have an EXTREMIST mindset about how this country should be run.

Now take that, multiply it by a thousand, and give them guns, bombs, knives, etc.

I said in the very beginning that I figured this was one of the reasons for not standing up, but again not all Muslims live in the Middle East either. I can understand those guys being scared and rightly so. I totally understand that.

But what is the reason in other parts of the world where a threat like that is not there?

Maybe I'm just simply not seeing something that is in fact there. Maybe I'm reading the wrong publications or maybe I just don't watch the news as often as I should to see it. I'm not necessarily saying it hasn't been done, I'm just saying I'm not seeing it myself and if it's there would someone please point me to it so I can see it. I'm not trying to be an ass, just trying to get some insight.

Muslims did stand up and call the pope an idiot when he opened his mouth and showed his ignorance. They DID stand up and protest when 9/11 happened.

Again, it may very well be just me being misinformed, but I just haven't seen the type of outcry towards terrorism as I have seen towards a caricature.

Plus, do you REALLY think USA today is going to have a front page paper with "Peaceful Muslims say Terrorists are Bad"?? No, they go for the good stuff about extremists blowing themselves up and blowing up school buses.

I think that may be part of the problem too. I know some "good news" don't sell as blood guts do.

[Vteckidd]

the problem w/ this country is we have shot ourself in the foot... we put our selves in this situation now are are back pedaling out of it

No i think the Muslim Extremists bombing our embassys, and the WTC once, and the flying 3 planes into our building killing 3000 people put us in this situation.

Fact of the matter is that we are at WAR, we have always been at war . The only problem with this WAR is that we dont know who the enemy is, or, where they live. We know they are Muslim, we know they are EXtremists, we know they reside in the middle east and in the USA, but we dont know who is who and who is on our side. IMHO.

We had a chance to end all this 8 years ago with Clinton. He had the intel and the means to bomb bin laden, and he chose not to. He chose to watch football instead cause he had NO BALLS. Clinton was great at what he did, make people think everything was ok. He was a great politician, he was a horrible leader.

Now the left will say we went to war because Bush lied about WMDs. Yeah, so what. We had semi decent intelligience that said that Iraq had SOMETHING or they were TRYING to get something SOON. So maybe he POLITICIZED it a little to get approval. I think whats even more funny about that is the fact that even so fresh after 9/11 , some of the country still needed a reason to go after another potential threat.

Had we NOT gone to war, and removed Saddam, what if he wuld have gotten a nuke, or funded ANOTHER terroist attack against the US? then people would have said "oh bush didnt do ENOUGH to stop this". so you guys cant have your cake an eat it too.

Now the democraps say we need to pull out of IRaq. Oh yeah, thats smart. Leave a massive power vacuum to be filled by someone WORSE than saddam and all our soldiers that have died have died in vein. Why dont you guys come up with a plan, oh wait, they dont have one. Their platform is "bush is the devil, we need to change the policy in IRAQ, but we have no idea what that should be".

... countries like US, UK, have pushed for WAR and when WAR is brought to us we whine about it. .

again, its the democrats that have no balls that are whining.

Now people will say that bush caused the 9/11 attacks with no credible proof, conspiracy theories, etc. Believe whatever you want. But freedom isnt free. I just think our generation is so lazy we dont want to fight for it. We just all want to work 10 hours a week an make 100,000 a year. We want so much from this country, but dont want to give anything back. 16 year olds can have $80,000 cars , but ask to fight for your country an its "fuck that".

I lvoe you paulina

to Jaime, your on to something. Ill say something thats gonna piss alot of people off, but i have had ALOT of muslim friends. Its a weird religion. Lots of people are very mellow. but, they dont want to stand up against the bad guys. They are very complacent. Most come to the US an milk it for all its worth, bad mouth us, but still lvie here . I dont get it. The religion as a whole has no balls IMO. They dont care for the most part. Many of my muslim friends, WHO ARE REALLY GOOD FRIENDS OF MINE, still think that Israel needs to perish. ANd since we support israel, we are targets. thats the heart of the whole matter, they cant let shit go. they are arguing over fucking rubble and will kill for the next 4000 years over it cause they are too stupid to wake up an say "this is a war that will never end".


/Corveys sermon

[RandomGuy]

The religion as a whole has no balls IMO.

yet according to you, these same "terrorists" strap themselves to bombs?

[Vteckidd]

yet according to you, these same "terrorists" strap themselves to bombs?

yeah , suicide is for pussys. and im referring to the "good muslims" who rarely stand up or out the "bad muslims".

[4dmin]

No i think the Muslim Extremists bombing our embassys, and the WTC once, and the flying 3 planes into our building killing 3000 people put us in this situation.

Fact of the matter is that we are at WAR, we have always been at war . The only problem with this WAR is that we dont know who the enemy is, or, where they live. We know they are Muslim, we know they are EXtremists, we know they reside in the middle east and in the USA, but we dont know who is who and who is on our side. IMHO.

We had a chance to end all this 8 years ago with Clinton. He had the intel and the means to bomb bin laden, and he chose not to. He chose to watch football instead cause he had NO BALLS. Clinton was great at what he did, make people think everything was ok. He was a great politician, he was a horrible leader.

Now the left will say we went to war because Bush lied about WMDs. Yeah, so what. We had semi decent intelligience that said that Iraq had SOMETHING or they were TRYING to get something SOON. So maybe he POLITICIZED it a little to get approval. I think whats even more funny about that is the fact that even so fresh after 9/11 , some of the country still needed a reason to go after another potential threat.

Had we NOT gone to war, and removed Saddam, what if he wuld have gotten a nuke, or funded ANOTHER terroist attack against the US? then people would have said "oh bush didnt do ENOUGH to stop this". so you guys cant have your cake an eat it too.

Now the democraps say we need to pull out of IRaq. Oh yeah, thats smart. Leave a massive power vacuum to be filled by someone WORSE than saddam and all our soldiers that have died have died in vein. Why dont you guys come up with a plan, oh wait, they dont have one. Their platform is "bush is the devil, we need to change the policy in IRAQ, but we have no idea what that should be".




again, its the democrats that have no balls that are whining.

Now people will say that bush caused the 9/11 attacks with no credible proof, conspiracy theories, etc. Believe whatever you want. But freedom isnt free. I just think our generation is so lazy we dont want to fight for it. We just all want to work 10 hours a week an make 100,000 a year. We want so much from this country, but dont want to give anything back. 16 year olds can have $80,000 cars , but ask to fight for your country an its "fuck that".

I lvoe you paulina

to Jaime, your on to something. Ill say something thats gonna piss alot of people off, but i have had ALOT of muslim friends. Its a weird religion. Lots of people are very mellow. but, they dont want to stand up against the bad guys. They are very complacent. Most come to the US an milk it for all its worth, bad mouth us, but still lvie here . I dont get it. The religion as a whole has no balls IMO. They dont care for the most part. Many of my muslim friends, WHO ARE REALLY GOOD FRIENDS OF MINE, still think that Israel needs to perish. ANd since we support israel, we are targets. thats the heart of the whole matter, they cant let shit go. they are arguing over fucking rubble and will kill for the next 4000 years over it cause they are too stupid to wake up an say "this is a war that will never end".


/Corveys sermon

its funny everyone wants to always point the finger at Clinton... this is the issue w/ that... where were we when Afganistan was being invaded by russia? who invaded Iraq once already and didn't finish the job... the problems w/ the middle east started over 20 years ago...

you want the answer to the problem look in the mirror. we have put your selves there... idiots like bush telling people what they can/can't do w/ their country is why we are in this situation... muslims have been here as long as christians and shit we are in is only 20+ years old so you can't say muslims are the problem... hello why are are really in the middle east? what next iran, korea, pakistan, etc? next it won't just be muslims

we as a country need to fix our own problems at home before we start spreading our selves so thin... look at New Orleans... we can't even protect our selves from our selves

[MachNU]

I might be a little to late in throwing in my two cents, but from reading Vtecs long responce pretty much said it all. But hey...

its funny everyone wants to always point the finger at Clinton... this is the issue w/ that... where were we when Afganistan was being invaded by russia? who invaded Iraq once already and didn't finish the job... the problems w/ the middle east started over 20 years ago...

you want the answer to the problem look in the mirror. we have put your selves there... idiots like bush telling people what they can/can't do w/ their country is why we are in this situation... muslims have been here as long as christians and shit we are in is only 20+ years old so you can't say muslims are the problem... hello why are are really in the middle east? what next iran, korea, pakistan, etc? next it won't just be muslims

we as a country need to fix our own problems at home before we start spreading our selves so thin... look at New Orleans... we can't even protect our selves from our selves

yes in all reality this all started with Clinton, that left wing liberal cocksucker started all this. Now you have all the democrats sitting here saying that "oh the war is bad, we need to pull out, it is accomplishing nothing...". I mean think about it, in i blieve 92, Osama, attacked the World Trade Center, by parking a U-haul full of explosives near the towers entrances to blow the place up, and pretty much failed. it was still attacked, but not that badly... So what happens Clinton pulls his dick out of Monica and signs a quick peace aggrement with Sadam.

But then when Bush is in office and Osama attacks again, with some proof that Sadam helped, and they suspected another peace aggrement, but no, Bush attacks back. That is the american way. Freedom is not free. This may be a bad look for the United States saying its nothing more than trying to take over more lands, or to conqure a land with oil. Is all bullshit. I love how all the democrats said that we went over for oil, but yet gas prices keep going up, guess Bush is just storing it for his own personal supply.

But yet after 5 years of this war, terrorism seems to be a scary thought...to manly terrorist. Becuase over the last 5 years attacks have started going down at a good rate. Even accross the world, attacks are alot less frequent. This war is a good thing, its showing that this nation will not stand up for attacks against its land, be it on our own soil, or the soil under the feet of our own troops.

I mean the muslim religion is even promoted that if you kill an "infidel" you will be rewarded in the afterlife. I mean any religion that promotes killing people who dont aggre with you is a VERY bad thing. Granted not all believers of this religion, do that, but any one that promotes that is wrong.

Then saying that we need to qorry about problems on our own lands is stupid. What problems do we have...Katrina, and New Orleans....thats ignorant. I am sorry but WHO THE FUCK BUILDS A CITY BELOW SEA LVL.....WITH A BIG ASS MUD DAM, stopping shit loads of water. They should have just made a Lake orleans out of the place. I mean give it a few more years another big ass dam hurricane is going to come through and wipe the place out again. There are very few problems this nation has, that cant be dealth with politics, police, firefighters, and paramedics. Let them handle theys problems while our soldiers handle other problems!!!!

This might have been more of a rant, and at some points off topic, but hey!!!!!!

[C22H19N3O4]

The religion as a whole has no balls IMO. They dont care for the most part.

That comment ranks you right up there with Echo419 and Tasuki Civic. Your post consisted of nothing more than a lame diatribe about Clinton, Saddam, and how Muslims have no balls. Just of curiosity, why do you associate yourself with people that allegedly have no gumption to bring about reform within their faith? Your comment ALONE is enough to fuel this anti-Muslim "discussion." I sincerely doubt it was Jamie's original intent to make disparaging remarks about Muslims.


I find it funny that our unyielding "war" on terrorism didn't prevent former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami from speaking at Harvard a couple of weeks ago. Someone had to approve his Visa and authorize security protection.

For a pat on the back, name the person that wrote the following statement in 1998 after the 1991 Gulf War:

"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under the circumstances, there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different — and perhaps barren — outcome."

[Jaimecbr900]

I sincerely doubt it was Jamie's original intent to make disparaging remarks about Muslims.

I think the world is actually coming to an end....I've agreed with both Hulud and pharm_teg and even 2jzkidd in one week......

That is exactly right. I NEVER made this thread in order to open a door for ANYONE to bash Muslim nor Islam. THAT IS NOT MY PURPOSE AT ALL. PLEASE STOP DOING SO OR THIS WILL GET LOCKED!!!!

I want to learn and get deeper than the normal US vs THEM BS.



Once again, only a couple of you have started to answer my questions directly, but quickly reverted to a Christians vs Muslims or Democrats vs Republicans.

What do Christians have to do with the perception that the Muslim community condones terrorism? To me, it would seem the media would be brought up wayyyy before any religion. That's a possible angle, right?

What do Republicans or Democrats have to do with beheadings and murder of innocent people? I know, I know this will spark the great "war" debate. Got it. But isn't that just mere finger pointing? How do 2 wrongs make it right? They are allegedly retaliating for "us" being there, right? Can they not do that in a civilized manner? It is one thing to take up arms against an opponent, but it is something totally different and barbaric to sneak up on an ususpecting and innocent victim and slit his throat on TV to prove your point, isn't it? There should be outrage against things like that. Weren't there lots of Anti-War demostrations all over the world that did NOT include beheadings?

Why is it that according to records there are millions of Muslims all over the world, not only in the Middle East, yet the ones that are relatively "safe" from persecution don't seem to be very vocal about attrocities and barbarism?

Why is it that 99% of the debates where this topic is discussed never answer the question directly? Why does it always go back to, "hey you did it so why can't I?"....or....."hey I don't like it but what can I do?"....or...."hey they started it...."

Every point of view will have a totally different perspective on the exact same situation. Noone is 100% right, but barbaric attrocities are barbaric attrocities no matter WHO commits them. There isn't a religion, God, or diety in this world that condones or even advocates MURDER. So we all KNOW that the Extremist of ANY "religion" are working outside what is truly taught in ANY religion. We ALL get that. We ALL should acknowledge that. THAT is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

Only two people in this discussion have remotely touched on that and said "yes there is outrage and denouncement in the Muslim community" (although I'd really like to see concrete evidence of that, not because I'm doubting it but because I've personally not seen it before). Everything else being thrown around doesn't even remotely come back to my original question. It's all smoke and mirrors.

[HvyArms]

I wish I could respond to this, but Im working.