Quote Originally Posted by metalman
Whenever I reason through matters of a spiritual nature I refer to Christ for my answer. First in His example which is the perfect example for ALL and second in His Word which is perfect in wisdom.
His example always encompassed BOTH of these priciples. He always answered with an IT IS WRITTEN, or THUS SAYETH THE LORD. He always used the Scripture for His answer.
Christ IS the Word. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Your answers to my questions utilize NEITHER of those principles but rely instead on human reasoning. I am deeply troubled by that fact. I am also troubled by the fact that your reasoning in some case contradicts the plain Word of Scripture sharply. Keep in mind I heartily endorse our God given freedom of concience and you are free to choose whatever ‘belief system’ that you wish and the subsequent outcome of that system…BUT…what does the Bible/Christ our example say with regard to the questions asked?
lol...i knew when you asked me those questions, this is how you were going to respond. and i am sorry that you are troubled by the fact that i think rationally about these subjects. but it goes back to what someone else said in this thread - you can't use the Bible as evidence for the validity of the Bible...

religion has been used to pull the wool over people's eyes throughout history, precisely because people are afraid to turn a critical eye to their beliefs. when i was a teenager and i came to find out how black people learned about christianity largely through the vehicle of slavery, i felt compelled to take a scrutinizing look at the religion that was used as one of the tools of enslaving my ancestors. what this meant was, i had to put aside all notions and biases that i picked up growing up, and critically look at christianity exactly as it stood...and it wasn't the easiest thing to do.

doing so put me on the road i am on now...and i have learned a great deal about the nature of spirituality and religion since then. probably the biggest lesson i've learned is that the "path to God" is a personal one, shaped by your experiences as you go through life. and it's not about the end result, nearly as much as it's about just trodding the path, because that's how you build that personal relationship with God, which is what's REALLY important.

the key thing we disagree on, i think, is that i no longer just accept the Bible as a 100% accurate document without question. when you study history and the evolution of the Bible, and see how man has had his hand in manipulating it, as well as the true origins for several of the ideas found there, i don't see how you can. you say we shouldn't rely on reason...but it's my opinion God gave us brains for a purpose.

it's cool that you look to the Bible for answers on all things spiritual, as that's your chosen guidebook. the Bible is excellent for that. what i am saying is that when a muslim does the same with the Koran, or a buddhist with his teachings from Buddha, or a witchdoctor with his oral traditions...really and truly...nobody has any real grounds to say one is right and the others are wrong. the only source of validation is experience - which is culturally shaped and totally subjective. all you can do is use what works best for you to build your relationship with God. that's all i'm saying...