Here is some good reading...
http://www.seesharppress.com/20reaso...#numberfifteen
20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity
Here is some good reading...
http://www.seesharppress.com/20reaso...#numberfifteen
its all good and well, but if those 20 reasons really makes someone not believe than that person is not believing for wrong reasonsOriginally Posted by admin
but i do agree with most of it
Val for President
That's dumb. Any completely one sided argument is dumb. I can see being the devil's advocate but...Christians are evil, Jews are wicked, Blacks this, Hispanics that, Muslims are this because of this. It just doesnt add up to anything in my book.
On a couple points...
Generally, I have found from careful study of the original languages and meanings that the so called "contradictions" in the Bible are in the minds of the uneducated reader only. Also the idea that Christ/God etc are real yet the Bible is inaccurate is to accept the notion that an all powerful God who can create the world is somehow unable to preserve the integrity of his only Book or truly inspire and direct it's authors. This isnt even logical.
As for slavery...it is true that Columbus, a devout Catholic, introduced slavery to this hemisphere with the blessing of the church which regard heathen as heritics deserving of death anyway. It is also true that southern protestants were steeped in the tradition/greed of slavery. In truth our whole country has suffered because of it and it continues to effect us to this day....which stands to reason...."...visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..."...the effects of sins are passed down.
I hate that picture. I would probably beat the shit out of that guy if I saw him, but yes I know everyone had their own opinions. I knw I know.
Well, first of all, it's easy to present a case strictly on pulling out PORTIONS of any text and twisting it to fit your needs. Notice how none of the quoted text the author uses to prove a point ever has any notations to previous context that either preceeded it or followed it. In other words, it's convinient to take things out of context and make it seem like what you wanted it to say. We all could do that. I'm sure we could do the same treatment to his work if we wanted.
Second, just about every point he brings up can actually be agreed with even by the Christian side. Why deny there is a Heaven and a Hell? IF you're scared of one or the the other, what's wrong with that? Now, I agree with him that a preacher shouldn't get up on a pulpit and fire down at parishoners with "scare tactics", ie. fire and brimstone sermons. But truth is an absolute defense IMO. If someone were to ask me if there is a "hell", I'd answer yes. If they inquired more as to what I believed it was like, I'd tell them. If after all that THEY were scared, that's like shooting the messanger. Some things are scary. Death is scary to most, yet it doesn't change the FACT that it happens, right? So, why would telling someone about it make it any worse? It just IS.
Finally, and more importantly, people will believe what they want to believe the majority of the time. If they have ingrained in their psychy that God doesn't exist, they will find supporters of their beliefs to agree with them. It's only natural. So, for him to generalize certain things as : Christopher Columbus= Catholic; Christopher Columbus used slaves= Christianity abdocates slavery and therefore Christianity is bad.....is ridiculous. Where is this guy from? I'm willing to bet just about anything that somewhere in HIS background generations ago HIS ancestors probably had an example of either having or using slaves. What's that got to do with him today? Does that put in question the validity of HIS work because of that mere fact?
This author merely showed a very 1 sided view and gave absolutely no credence to the other side. Ironically enough, that's exactly what fire and brimstone preachers and followers do for the most part....How can one be right and not the other?
They are just there to take your money no joke.
"A single death is a tragedy;A million deaths is a statistic."
-Joseph Stalin 1945
i'm just wondering here are you disputing the fact that christians supported slavery for centurys? that would be like stating that you don't believe molestation ever happened in the catholic churches... religion is slavery to begin with
You didn't answer my question, so I guess you misunderstood.
I'm not arguing one way or another if something happened centuries ago. I'm merely saying that to make the leap forward of tying that to religion today is ludicrous. In other words, just because an ancestor of yours did something how does that relate to YOU today? Isn't a far leap to assume it makes you and your ancestor one in the same? Therefore, how can you glob religion the same way? Every single religion in the entire face of the earth has had someone commit something irrevocably wrong while shouting out their name.
Look at the case of Islam right now. Islam is said to be a peaceful religion. I've seen and agreed with many people that defend that viewpoint. What does mainstream think though? That ALL Islam advocates is violence for anyone that doesn't follow it's beliefs. How right is that? It's actually LESS of a leap to tie since there have been beheadings and suicide bombers who clearly by their own admissions did their deeds in the name of "Islam".
So for the author of that to loosely tie that Christianity as a whole condones slavery because Christopher Columbus had slaves on his ships (as EVERY ship routinely did) and since he was a Catholic that means Christianity CONDONED it is far fetched at best. Does that mean that if you buy something made in China, you are FOR child labor violations? See what I mean?
that dude with the sign is my hero!
GeckoSquad / Skull Platoon
leap forward... hmmm there is still slavery, racisim, seperatism, today... what leap are you refering to... that black people can vote, own land, etc... what are we talking about 50 years?
also you are christian, you already have sin in you from the original... so if you have to carry such a burden why wouldn't you carry the burden of all mankind or christians who came before you? you live with what they haev done everyday, why would this be different?
yes i buy things from china and if they come from labor camps, guess what... one i wouldnt' know b/c i'm not from china, two nothing i can do will change the fact i'm going to buy products from there regardless.
i'm not even gonna bother reading the 20 reasons...
but one reason to LIVE FOR JESUS is because HE DIED FOR YOU!
#1- Name a place where slavery is still allowed today.
#2- Black people weren't the only race that was ever enslaved.
#3- My point wasn't that something happened or it didn't, it was that because someone did it doesn't mean his/her RELIGION condoned it or preached it was right.
Because "sin" is something that can only be carried or forgiven by the individual. I can't pay for your sins any more than I can of my own children.also you are christian, you already have sin in you from the original... so if you have to carry such a burden why wouldn't you carry the burden of all mankind or christians who came before you? you live with what they haev done everyday, why would this be different?
Therefore, what does the sin of other people from generations ago have to do with my choices now? They either live or die by their choices as will I.
yes i buy things from china and if they come from labor camps, guess what... one i wouldnt' know b/c i'm not from china, two nothing i can do will change the fact i'm going to buy products from there regardless.
So therefore according to your's and the author's logic, you are condoning and even supporting child labor camps then. He says "Christianity" advocates slavery because some people that were "Christians" had or used slaves. How is you buying a pair of tennis shoes made by the hands of some 9 yr old in some 3rd world country going to be any reflection on YOU? THAT is exactly my point. How is the action of one have to do with the ideology of another?
Like I said, it's far fetched and loosely connected at best. Either way, it's a weak argument since I'm willing to bet there's not a single Slave owner todaythat is a true Christian. Hell, anything can be loosely connected if we dig far enough and make enough assumptions.
Plain and simple - Those 20 "reasons" are nothing are nothing more than that one person's opinion. He is entitled to his opinion, but those opinions are nothing more than hate propoganda - equilant to the teachings of the Third Reich. If you choose to listen to it and repeat his opinions as your own, that is your perogrative. But that does not mean that it is not preaching hatred (of Christianity).
wtf?! what a Hater! why would you post something like that?
ya know Christians started out as slaves. Just because man does something and is a Christian doesn't make it the "policy" of God.
what happened to you to be such an asshole? attacking christians for no reason. come on what happened? did your kitten get ran over by a car when you were a kid? after all if God is good and loving why would he let your kitty get ran over?
ever heard the saying, "There's no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole."? I guarntee if you find yourself in that situation you'll only have 1 reason to change your mind.
where the hell is admin attacking christianity?
and this argument is classic"why are you not christian, you must think why would god do this" damn that is the most ignorant comment you can make about an atheist. yea man the reason i dont believe in a god is because i can't believe my kitty died
thank you, i guess because if you are in a war you automatically become religiousever heard the saying, "There's no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole."? I guarntee if you find yourself in that situation you'll only have 1 reason to change your mind.
Last edited by Hulud; 03-14-2006 at 07:32 AM.
Val for President
so would you say that a lot of "christians" in the US pre-civil war were not REAL christians, because they either 1. owned slaves or 2. were racist?Either way, it's a weak argument since I'm willing to bet there's not a single Slave owner today
Val for President
did you read the 1st post in this thread? what are you dense? maybe I'm wrong and he's not lmk I'll apologize.where the hell is admin attacking christianity?
and this argument is classic
you said it
no but if you're about die in a guresome way I bet you will.thank you, i guess because if you are in a war you automatically become religious
umm i can name two right off hand the africa and the middle east
ummm ok, like i stated the catholic church has known for 100's of years their priest have been molesting young boys... i'm guessing that is the burden of the individual not the church? :jerkit:#3- My point wasn't that something happened or it didn't, it was that because someone did it doesn't mean his/her RELIGION condoned it or preached it was right.
do you not believe you are born in sin? and why are we born in sin? ok then, so my point is valid you have to live every day w/ the sins of past generations.what does the sin of other people from generations ago have to do with my choices now?
Christians made themselves slaves by rebelling against the empire.
How am i an asshole, b/c i don't believe in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, or that guy you like to glorify hanging on a cross?
and you statement about how god is "good and loving" has to be the dumbest statement ever... read your bible god has allowed evil to take over earth and he is more than capable of doing such.
no i've never heard that and i hope your at my death bed so you can see me curse the name of your god once again
EAD h8ter.
This is true. Not only have they been molesting boys but women as well. Abraham Lincoln was involved in a court proceeding where he acted as defense lawyer for a priest who TRIED to blow the whistle on the sexual abuses of women/children by other priests. The response of the church? They paid a woman to say she was "molested" by the whistle blower in an attempt to destroy his character and credibility.
The problem is though is that this has nothing to do with true Christianity. The roman catholic church is not a Christian entity but masquerades as one. It makes up its own nonsensical teachings/dogma by its own "authority" and does not submit to Scriptural principles and/or teachings. Its even so presumptious to think that God must "act" upon its "authority".
Nothing related to its behaviour/history should surprise you.
Alot of people have trouble with what God "allows". I sympathize with that sentiment.
However, to me it isnt that confusing...God created mankind but allowed mankind to choose. He could have created robots who served him without any means to do otherwsie but He didnt. Man had the choice to obey God, respect Him or not. Man choose to disobey in spite of being warned and told of the results. The results are exactly what God said they would be...the evil that has taken over the earth as you have described.
God has allowed all of the universe to see by virtue of allowing mans choice that His way is in fact the right way and choosing other ways only lead to misery, destruction & death. He has also allowed the whole universe to see that he in indeed a God of mercy in that he has provided a way out to ANYONE that accepts it.
We all have that choice available to us...we can accept it or not. This is why I hate these religions that try to force "morality" through the government. Choice is a God given right, even up to and including cursing Him.
^dumbest statment ever^Christians made themselves slaves by rebelling against the empire.
How am i an asshole, b/c i don't believe in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, or that guy you like to glorify hanging on a cross?
and you statement about how god is "good and loving" has to be the dumbest statement ever... read your bible god has allowed evil to take over earth and he is more than capable of doing such.
no i've never heard that and i hope your at my death bed so you can see me curse the name of your god once again
EAD h8ter.
[/PUSSY] get some
hmm quite interesting, i'd jump into this great discussion but i have class soonishso i won't have time to defend my self lol
No siggy as of right now
said it
he's right... think about it... when somethin bad happens to you... what do u say... (wether it's in vain for not) 9 out of ten people will say the name JESUS! or GOD! or OH MY GOD! now where most people say it for the wrong reason, your still calling out to the one person who will always hear you, and the only one who can always help! or solve ANY problem!
it's human nature to call out to your maker.... like when ur a little kid and u call for ur mommy or daddy... same concept..
so i was created by "french fries".. also if you think about it. as children you have an open mind. you pick up words from what is constantly said to you. most parents say mommy, mom, dad, daddy and so forth more than any other word. it's the stereotypical "first word" because parents want to feel special if their child says their "name" first... if i were to say penis allthe time the child will probably say penis as their first words... it's all what you push on the child.. your thesis = bust
No siggy as of right now
I hope there's a christian at your death bed too man!
but not one that's there to watch u die,... but to help u live.
i don't know you at all, and u don't know me... but it only takes one small act of God to change your mind completely.... And i know HE can change yours... i watched over 10,000 non believers get saved this weekend... one person won't be too hard for HIM!
i personally don't have any problem w/ christians, just their religion. there isn't anything for me to want to worship. i do not believe in your heaven/hell/god so it doesn't phase me the outcome some my think i will have.
if i'm wrong then i will be getting a nice sun tan for eternity, but if i'm right lol... you better hope there is room in my heaven for ya
No, that's just it. Hell is worse than anything imaginable. Total darkness,screaming,falling,burning,burning,burning ... FOREVER! Our "fleshly" minds can't comprehind eternity. What if you are, in fact, wrong? Ever though about that? There's is nothing you can do... And it's forever.
If I'm wrong (which I have experienced God's power and know it's real), what have I got to lose? I'll die, rot, and become part of this earth... Oh well, it's not demonic torture for eternity.
no its not, its learned
Val for President
i think you're the one jmping to conclusionsdid you read the 1st post in this thread? what are you dense? maybe I'm wrong and he's not lmk I'll apologize.
you said it
he never said anything other than hers some good reading
since you know me and allno but if you're about die in a guresome way I bet you will.
Val for President
Sorry thanx for playing... your view on things is quite 1 sided... you think just b/c your believe in GOD 1) your going to heaven 2) if your wrong then you'll just rot... what if your wrong you can still meet a hell in your afterlife which may be far worse than what your christian books tell you.
so make sure you choose your heaven wisely... i have made peace with my self if i am wrong; you should do the same for it might not be as easy as rotting and becoming earth
read genius... i didn't say a childs first words and i don't mean kids that can barely talk either.... and Jesus wasn't something drove into my life by my parents like other words may have been....
I do understand what you are saying. I didn't mean to sound so "one-sided". But because I have truely experienced God in my life, I know He is real. However because you haven't, you don't. I don't think I'm going to heaven just because i "believe in God", I think I am because I live my life for Him.Sorry thanx for playing... your view on things is quite 1 sided... you think just b/c your believe in GOD 1) your going to heaven 2) if your wrong then you'll just rot... what if your wrong you can still meet a hell in your afterlife which may be far worse than what your christian books tell you.
so make sure you choose your heaven wisely... i have made peace with my self if i am wrong; you should do the same for it might not be as easy as rotting and becoming earth
Topic Title, the pic, and the link to the website. what was I thinking?i think you're the one jmping to conclusions
he never said anything other than hers some good reading
since you know me and all
it'd be like if I started a thread titled, "20 reasons to shoot a kitten" then had a pic of a guy w/a gun pointed at a kitten and then gave a link to a website with 20 Reasons to shoot a kitten you wouldn't think I liked/wanted to shoot a kitten?
maybe it's just me
i wouldn't think that. i'd think it was just some interesting reading. if i found something interesting i'd post it(unless someone else already did)
No siggy as of right now
Look, if our Christianity bothers you so much... Quit talking about it. We're not trying to offend or preach to you guys until YA'LL bring it up. But when I see you guys post stuff like whoever it was that posted that pic saying "If Jesus comes back, kill him again"... That really offends me. If you guys think we're so immature and simpleminded for believing this stuff, keep it to yourselves- that would be the mature thing to do. Why flip out and try to start arguments? It's so pointless! We all believe how we want to believe and we're not gonna change until WE want to... Geezzz....
But this is how I feel... An awesome poem/video trailer by an awesome man of God.... I'll call this 100+ Reasons to ADOPT Christianity.
My King was born King; the Bible says He's the seven-way King.
He's the King of the Jews- that is a racial King.
He's the King of Israel - that's a national king.
He's the King of righteousness,
He's the King of the ages,
He's the King of heaven,
He's the King of glory,
He's the King of kings and
He is the Lord of lords.
Now, that's my King.
"Well, I wonder if you know Him do you know Him?
Don't try to mislead me - do you know my King?
David said, "The heavens declare the glory of God
and the firmament shows His handiwork."
My King is the only one, whom there is no means of measure can define His limitless love.
No far-seeing telescope can bring into visibility the coastline of His shoreless supplies.
No barriers can hinder Him from pouring out His blessing.
He's enduringly strong, He's entirely sincere, He's eternally steadfast, He's immortally graceful, imperially powerful, He's impartially merciful.
That's my King. He's God's Son, He's the sinner's Saviour. He's the centrepiece of civilisation, He stands alone in Himself. He's awesome, unique, unparalleled -
He's unprecedented.
He's the miracle of the age. He's the superlative of everything good that you choose to call Him. He is the only one able to supply all of our needs simultaneously. He supplies strength for the weak. He's available for the tempted and the tried. He sympathises and He saves.
He foreguards and He guides.
He heals the sick.
He cleanses the lepers.
He forgives sinners.
He discharges debtors.
He delivers the captives. He defends the feeble. He blesses the young. He serves the unfortunate. He regards the aged.
He rewards the diligent, and He beautifies the meek. Do you know Him?
Well, my King is the King of knowledge.
He's the wellspring of wisdom, He's the doorway of deliverance.
He's the pathway of peace, He's the roadway of righteousness, He's the highway of holiness, He's the gateway of glory.
He's the Master of the mighty, He's the Captain of the conquerors, He's the Head of the heroes and He's the Leader of the legislators!
He's the Overseer of the overcomers, He's the Governor of the governors.
He's the Prince of princes, He's the King of kings, and He's the Lord of lords.
That's my King.
His office is manifold and His promise is sure. His light is matchless,
His goodness is limitless.
His mercy is everlasting and His love never changes.
His Word is enough, His grace is sufficient.
His reign is righteous, His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
Well, I wish I could describe Him to you, but He's indescribable!
He's incomprehensible, invincible, irresistible.
I'm trying to tell you the heaven of heavens cannot contain Him,
let alone a man explain Him!
You can't get Him out of your mind. You can't get Him off of your hands.
You can't outlive Him and you can't live without Him!
Well, Pharisees couldn't stand Him but they found out they couldn't stop Him.
Pilot couldn't find any fault in Him.
The witnesses couldn't get their testimonies to agree and Herod couldn't kill Him.
Death couldn't handle Him and the grave couldn't hold Him.
That's my King!
He always has been and He always will be.
I'm talking about, He had no predecessor and He'll have no successor.
There was nobody before Him and there will be no one after Him.
You can't impeach Him and He's not going to resign.
That's my King!
Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory.
Well, all the power belongs to my King.
We around here talk about black-power, and white-power, and green-power, but it's God's power! Thine is the power and the glory!
We are trying to get prestige and honour and glory for ourselves but the glory is all His.
Yes, Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever and ever
and ever (how long is that?) and ever
and ever and ever and ever.
And when you get through with all of the forevers, then - "Amen!"
amen.... amen!
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