xMAS and Christianity???

[Malana]

Your right. Its not his birthday. The problem is, there is no reason to celebrate it. The Bible doesnt command, suggest or even hint at such a celebration.
The only reason there is such a celebration is because it was a pagan festival that was adopted by the catholic church. For anyone who cares adopting pagan rituals is forbidden in the Bible. Christmas is a catholic invention. If you are a catholic that may understandably matter to you. If a protestant, then it shouldnt have much significance just like many other meaningless made-up catholic rituals.

To me its an enjoyable secular "holiday" for family, friends, and giving.

That is true that the celebration was timed to coincide with a pagan festival. This was done not only by the Roman church because it was a way to hide what they were doing and not get prematurely martyred but also by the Eastern Orthodox churches. It was eventually adopted by everyone.

I know many protestants who find meaning in Roman Catholic rituals. God's creation could not function and be so well sustained without the infinite diversity that he designed. Just as there are a hundred ways for different types of birds to build their nests, there are a hundred ways for God's people to worship him. Some of us need ritual. Some of us do not.

I'm glad you are able to find some joy in the celebration of Christ's birth even if it is only as a secular holiday. I consider Christmas celebration's which preceed Christmas day to be secular and only celebrate Christmas from Christmas Day to Epiphany. Right now, I am celebrating Advent.

I am curious. Do you know or remember if you were baptised in the name of the father, son and holy ghost? Or were you baptised in Jesus name only?

I don't know about the rest of you but I find it difficult to write about religion with the little smiley faces misbehaving on the right side of the screen. The little red guy and the two busy yellow folks are just disturbing.

[ISAtlanta300]

"Celebration" is not the word I would use either. It is to acknowledge His birth and more for remembrance.

[metalman]

That is true that the celebration was timed to coincide with a pagan festival. This was done not only by the Roman church because it was a way to hide what they were doing and not get prematurely martyred but also by the Eastern Orthodox churches. It was eventually adopted by everyone.

I know many protestants who find meaning in Roman Catholic rituals.

I think you are slightly misinformed. History is quite clear, the catholic church has through the centuries has been the organization doing the killing and making martyrs. It is true that other churches which are based on the same pagan rituals as catholicism share its festivals. The birthday of Tammuz, the roman saturnalia etc were simply renamed and added to catholcisms long list of nonsensical rituals.

Earlier in this country's history protestants generally abstained from christmas celebrations and regarded them as catholic pagan nonsense. It was with the influx of immigration that these "celebrations" caught on in protestant churches in America.

"Rituals" for christians have been spelled out clearly in the Bible. Adding to them (in a worship sense) is forbidden by the same Book.

If you dont beleive in christmas dont celebrate it. Just that simple. Quiting trying to make it into something its not.

"Making it into something its not" is the whole basis of christmas.
Its not the birthday of Christ yet people have attempted to make it into that.
It would still be called the brthday of Tammuz (or other sun gods in different cutlures) if not "made into" something its not.

As for the public debate over the name...christmas or holiday..its the same difference...although I would continue to call it christmas.

[Malana]

I think you are slightly misinformed. History is quite clear, the catholic church has through the centuries has been the organization doing the killing and making martyrs.

We must be reading different history books. There is no religion or denomination that does not have blood on its hands when it comes to killing in the name of God and the making of martyrs.

Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. What does this mean to you? I would not like for anyone to ever tell me that beliefs and rituals I hold dear are nonsensical and pagan. Since I am a Christian, this is something I do not do.

"Rituals" for christians have been spelled out clearly in the Bible. Adding to them (in a worship sense) is forbidden by the same Book.

That is your opinion. Have you ever attend a service in a Jewish Temple? How can rituals and traditions be wrong if they were inherited from Judaism?

I respect that a form of devotion devoid of ritual is what works for some.
I obviously experience ritual in a different way. It facilitates my relationship with God. I do not feel close to God when I attend a protestant church where the service seems to revolve most around entertaining people in an audience. This is not worship to me. It is merely community. To me it is like going out to dinner and only having dessert. Eventually, I have to go get me a nice piece of meat.

I believe that my loving God wants me to worship in whatever way works for me the best.

[metalman]

We must be reading different history books. There is no religion or denomination that does not have blood on its hands when it comes to killing in the name of God and the making of martyrs..

To say that NO demoniations are free from 'blood on their hands' is certainly not based in historical fact. It is true that other so called christian churches have engaged in killing but nearly in the extreme sense and for the lengthy history the catholic church has. Multiple millions have been slain at the papacys hands. I realize this isnt politically correct to mention but I care not for PC'ness. Such notions call for history to be rewritten. I prefer the facts even if ugly.

Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. What does this mean to you? I would not like for anyone to ever tell me that beliefs and rituals I hold dear are nonsensical and pagan. Since I am a Christian, this is something I do not do.

The golden rule is a good one to live by. It means treat others how you wish to be treated. I love catholics. Some of my own family are catholic. I can honestly say there are many honest, God fearing people in that organization...theyre just honestly mistaken or have been mislead by their priests/popes. Telling them the truth is a very kind and loving thing to do. Certainly WAY better then letting them believe lies. For example...praying to Mary for forgivness of sin. Biblically, this is blasphemy. Mary is dead. She cant hear any prayers. She cant forgive anyone. Only God can. I have seen many a catholic rejoice in knowing the teachings of the Bible as opposed to catholic tradition. It was an overwhelming relief to them in many ways.

That is your opinion. Have you ever attend a service in a Jewish Temple? How can rituals and traditions be wrong if they were inherited from Judaism?

I respect that a form of devotion devoid of ritual is what works for some.
I obviously experience ritual in a different way. It facilitates my relationship with God. I do not feel close to God when I attend a protestant church where the service seems to revolve most around entertaining people in an audience. This is not worship to me. It is merely community. To me it is like going out to dinner and only having dessert. Eventually, I have to go get me a nice piece of meat.

The majority of meaningless nonsensical rituals of the catholic church were not inherited from the jews. I have intently studied catholic theology and that much is clear. In fact, in hardline catholic theology the jew is regarded as deserving death. Obviously, I do not concur.

The jewish religion has its own nonsensical rituals.

Jesus even told the jews that they made his religion of none effect by their traditions. He chided them for substituting the commandments of men for the doctrines of God. For this they killed him.

The "habit" of prayers, meetings etc or other worship wasnt what I was addressing.

The Bible is very clear on the principle of adding/adopting pagan rituals to worship God. The Bible says the things pagans do to worship their gods "He hates" and doing such is an "abomination". The Christian is supposed to have nothing to do with such.

I believe that my loving God wants me to worship in whatever way works for me the best.

Well you can certainly believe and practice what you wish but I can assuredly tell you without hesitation that the Scripture says otherwise.
And I mean no disrespect to you at all. Nor am I questioning your sincerity.