xMAS and Christianity???

[Wodihor]

new to forum but well hell hi, and this is my opinion.

I have looked over some of what was said here ... i didn't read it all.

the holiday Christmas is celebratied by christians (beleivers in Christ the son of God). then where did the tree come from ... baby in a manger is all about Christ? The tree i beleive comes more from the "pagan" or celtic days of worship. It is winter solstic or something like can't rember off the top of my head, maybe equanox. and how about the presents?? well also to my understanding they came fomr some some town that infact had a "santa clause" although he is dead now the "spirit" of Christmas lives on. this man gave coal and switches to bad little boys and girls.

Here is problem 1. we live in america where we have the freedom to worship who we choose to, but we were founded and have been run by "prodostent"(sp) or Christian followers. all presidents have followed the path of christianity in some shape or form. we have never had a pagan, hindu, or any other religion represented as a president in this country. laws and moral right are all bias imho. Christians DO NOT like pagans. they are heitherns and are of witchcraft, according to the old testiment.

but really as far as the holiday goes. i don't much care at all... my family gets togeather... and we are just about to the point of not buying gifts anymore. we eat, have a good time catching up on everything and everyone. there are extrem people on all ends of the spectrem. I do not think that it is right to put Christ into every holiday. Easter is another one that is a pagan hoiday. it is the day celebrated for fertility and new growth. it is not for everyone the death and reserection of Jesus.

about the blood on hands deal. i would vote to say that 75% or more of all wars have steemed from some religious movment. and as far as the US goes... we do the same thing... we just call it a democrocy(sp). we as the US have infact inposed on many many religions. native americians to jsut hit the nail on the head from the get go...it is a religious war. always will be. spain killed because of religion a long time ago. well what about religions killing... "Christions"(US government) is stamping out a religion or part of it because they are a warring religion/tribe and appose us. Jews marched on cities and took the over according to the old testiment. it is not just the Roman empire but the Roman Chatholic Empire.

As much stand offish and touchy and sensitive a subject as religion is... peoples views of things will always hurt people that view differently and always will there be arguments. until all are one religion, ie the time of babolon in the bible. and if that time comes again then we will see end of days, also according to the bible. Christians will war because we are "spreading the word of God" to the people and converting the masses. and we do it mytholicaly to the point where we as a country appear to be right.

damn i knew i should have started posting to this... sorry for the rant... sorry to offend. peace and love to all merry meet and blessied be, happy chuinica(sp), and Merry Christmas. and any other peps out there i missed.

[ISAtlanta300]

new to forum but well hell hi, and this is my opinion.

I have looked over some of what was said here ... i didn't read it all.

the holiday Christmas is celebratied by christians (beleivers in Christ the son of God). then where did the tree come from ... .....

Dunno. Christians did not "invent" the christmas tree though..

baby in a manger is all about Christ?

Yes. He is believed to have been born in a manger or grotto, after nobody offered lodging.

..... and how about the presents??

What presents? Christians did not invent the "tradition" for presents under the x mas tree. Some allege that the present represent the presents given to baby Jesus by the three wise men, who bought him Gold and other stuff. Christians believe more in the "spirit" of christmas, which is about remembrance of His birth, Celebration of His birth, and peace to mankind, not about Santa Claus, presents and Macy's.

well also to my understanding they came fomr some some town that infact had a "santa clause" although he is dead now the "spirit" of Christmas lives on. this man gave coal and switches to bad little boys and girls.

That is but one of the many "theories" of gift giving. Some believe that there actually was a "bishop" named "Nicolas" who was known for his charitable spirit and gift giving. The Dutch celebrare "Saint Nicolas", which may have become "Santa Claus" when the Dutch emigrated to NY. And Saint Nicolas or "Sinterklaas" actually gives gifts on his birthday, December 5th. Again, it has nothing to do with Christmas as Christ's observed birth.

Here is problem 1. we live in america where we have the freedom to worship who we choose to, but we were founded and have been run by "prodostent"(sp) or Christian followers. all presidents have followed the path of christianity in some shape or form. we have never had a pagan, hindu, or any other religion represented as a president in this country. laws and moral right are all bias imho. Christians DO NOT like pagans. they are heitherns and are of witchcraft, according to the old testiment.

It is not about not liking pagans. It is about taking "Christ"'s observence, and bastardizing it, claiming it your own and then having the audacity to challenge its name. If you are not Christian, then you do not have to celebrate Christmas. Period. Just like Christians will not interfere with Kwanzaa or Hannukah. Call the tree whatever you want, call is Season's Greetings if you wish. But do not take Christmas from the Christians and try to coin it as your own Holiday, and pretend like you invented the "holiday" tree, and the "holiday of pines" or some shit.

I do not think that it is right to put Christ into every holiday

Nobody is putting Christ into your holidays. It is everybody else who wants the same holidays, but do not want to acknowledge their origin. Somehow, the Christians are always the target of this. "They have off on Good Friday. I want to have off too !! But I am not Christian, so let us call it "Bunny Rabit Friday"

Maybe you should call Yom Kippur "Mid week holiday day off day" or something? No. It IS YOM KIPPUR. It is what it is.

Easter is another one that is a pagan hoiday. it is the day celebrated for fertility and new growth. it is not for everyone the death and reserection of Jesus..

For Christians is it as much about the resurrections as it is pagan to everyone else. You chose to celebrate fertility and growth with the easter bunny, Christians celebrate it with Christ's resurrection. But IT IS WHAT IT IS. EASTER is about the resurrection of Christ. If you want to call it bunny day and hunt for eggs, so be it.

As much stand offish and touchy and sensitive a subject as religion is... peoples views of things will always hurt people that view differently and always will there be arguments. ..

Yes indeed. That is the way it unfortunately is. The thing that gets me is that nobody is questioning Hannuhak, No one is turning an eye at Kwanzaa. Christians have been tolerant and have virtually ignored how people chose to celebrate their holiday. But to try and take "Christ" out of Christmas is absurd. Like I said. If you want your own atheist holiday, you are free to do so. Make your own movement or own religion. Tell the government to give you a holiday called "PineTree Snowbirth day". You do not have to celebrate christmas if you don't want to. But don't try to tell christians how to celebrate and call their holiday.

[Malana]

Dunno. Christians did not "invent" the christmas tree though..

The short answer is that the Celts and the pagan Romans pretty much everybody pre-Christian, saw the winter solstice as a great time to party. The only way to get us... I mean them... *Malana wonders if her freckles and pale skin are showing* to stop running around naked under the full moon and having lots of sex was to give us something else to do like cutting down a tree and making lots of handcrafted thingies to hang on it.

The long answer is that evergreens have been a symbol of rebirth from ancient times. Bringing greenery into your house at winter solstice symbolized life in the midst of death in many cultures. The christmas tree was probably a descendent of the Yule tree. We think the word is a descendent of the Anglo-Saxon word 'geol' which eans feast. Probably the time of winter solstice for the Celts, Angles and Saxons was the time of a great feast. Solstices both Winter and Spring were celebrated with dancing and merrymaking.

The Romans also decked their homes with evergreens. They celebrated Saturnalia, which was a festival honoring the god of agriculture. Relaxed morality, general merrymaking, feasting and gift giving were all associated with Saturnalia. These tradtions and the traditions of other cultures were assimilated by Christians and given Christian meanings.

[metalman]

The Romans also decked their homes with evergreens. They celebrated Saturnalia, which was a festival honoring the god of agriculture. Relaxed morality, general merrymaking, feasting and gift giving were all associated with Saturnalia. These tradtions and the traditions of other cultures were assimilated by Christians and given Christian meanings.

Yes indeed...pagan festivals of fertility & sun worship "given christian meanings"...or more accurately meanings invented by the roman catholic church and followers. These days werent included in any so called christian "worship" until the 3rd century AD during the Constantine era when much of the Truth of the Bible and Jesus Christ was sacrificed in favor of meaningless rituals of pagan orgin.