LeVeyan Satanism? Interesting religion - I think most of us follow it too lol

[Atlblkz06]

To me, the definition of modern satanism is characterizes human instincts and desires as "Satan" and urges capitulation to such instincts and desires - called LaVeyan Satanism. As far as I'm concerned, Satanism is what we all FOLLOW RIGHT NOW. We do what we want, fulfill our own selfish desires (even if its at the expense of others). Hell, the Whoreslounge is THE perfect example of this. Its some sort of moral capitalism - full of twisted tales, lies and even some truth about people - all just to get a silly laugh (and some sort of twisted pleasure for some?). I think I just called 99% of IA Satanic but the definition seems to fit like a glove.

Here is a little excerpt I found interesting about the Church of Satan. They include some guy's explanation of them:

While the Church of Satan encourages individuality and the gratification of desires, it does not suggest that all actions are acceptable. The Nine Satanic Sins, published by Anton LaVey in 1987, target nine characteristics Satanists should avoid.

1. Stupidity

Stupid people do not get ahead in this world. Satanists strive to keep themselves informed and to not be fooled by others who seek to manipulate and use them.

2. Pretentiousness

Taking pride in one’s achievements is encouraged in Satanism. However, one should only take credit for one’s own accomplishments. Making empty claims about yourself is not only obnoxious but also potentially dangerous, leading to sin No. 4, self-deceit.

3. Solipsism

Satanists use this term to refer to the presumption many people make that other people think, act and have the same desires as themselves. It’s important to remember that everyone is an individual with his own individual goals and plans. To expect someone to treat you as you treat him is foolish. Instead, Satanists encourages you to treat people as they treat you. You should always deal with the reality of the situation rather than expectations.

4. Self-Deceit

Satanists deal with the world as it is. Convincing yourself of untruths because they are more comfortable is no less problematic than letting someone else deceive you.

5. Herd Conformity

Satanism exalts the power of the individual. Western culture encourages people to go with the flow, and to believe and do things simply because the wider community is doing such. Satanists attempt to avoid such behavior, following the herd only if it makes logical sense and suits one’s own needs.

6. Lack of Perspective

Remain aware of both the big and small pictures, never sacrificing one for the other. Remember your own important place in things, and don’t be overwhelmed with the viewpoints of the herd. On the flipside, we do live in a world larger than ourselves. Always keep an eye on the big picture and how you can fit yourself into it.

7. Forgetful of Past Orthodoxies

Society is constantly taking old ideas and repackaging them as new, original ideas. Do not be fooled by such offerings.

8. Counterproductive Pride

If it works, use it. You should never be embarrassed of your own accomplishments. However, if pride is getting in the way of getting things done with other people, you should set it aside until such time as it becomes constructive again.

9. Lack of Aesthetics

Beauty and balance are two things Satanists strive for. This is particularly true in magical practices but can be extended to the rest of one’s life as well. Avoid following that which society dictates is beautiful and learn to identify true beauty, whether or not others recognize it.


Thoughts?...

[The Creeper]

I thought satanists just slaughtered goats, rape and pillage the weak, and draw pentagrams everywhere

Good find. Bible huggers will get a kick out of it.

[StreetHazard]

This is interesting, I almost posted something like this myself. More often than not I find myself relating to Satanists more so than to many Atheists themselves, to a point where I explored the philosophy as a possible choice for my own guidance.

The only real difference that I personally see between Satanism and Atheism, is the "ritual" aspect. Satanism can offer a sense of Spiritualism that many Atheists still feel they can relate too and have a need for. I learned that I simply had no need or desire for it as well, and I also have a problem with using a moniker which is so closely related to the western abrahamic religions desert deity "SATAN"...if it is just utilizing the godless archetype as a name only. Which these are just about the only reasons I can still claim myself to be Atheist. More astute, knowledgeable Christian evangelists have spotted the trappings of this philosophy in my beliefs as well and mistakenly labeled me a Satanist, but the observation was so close I never even bothered to correct them.

I read the Satanic Bible, and I find it to be pretty sophomoric, the idea's put forth in it's contents to me read more like a childrens book for Atheism with the trappings of godless ritual to help cement his point, then containing any spiritual wisdom or any semblance of "enlightenment", then again I feel no real reason to pursue a sense of spiritualism or enlightenment at all, so it is again with my lack of understanding of such matters, with no real desire to understand.

most LaVeyans are atheistic "symbolic" Satanists, they claim the name in it's archetype form only, but hold concrete Atheist views. I have very close Atheist friends that have such a (morally nihilistic) view towards life on this earth they make Anton LaVey's ideas seem as harmless as a newborn kitten.


There are many other branches of Satanism besides LeVeyan. Like....


Paradigm Satanism

Pantheistic or Panentheistic Satanism

Polytheistic Satanism

Luciferianism and/or Gnostic Luciferianism

Christian-based duotheism <----this is just good 'ol fashioned devil worship "praise the goat, and hail satan"


the others I can elaborate on, but I have a feeling this thread will be dodged like the bubonic plague. But maybe I will be proved wrong.



But excellent thread post Atlblkz06, reps too you! and I will stick around.

[Starrfire]

Sounds like a pretty good way to be, minus the stepping on people to get what you want. But other than that it sounds like Levayan Satanists sound like an intelligent sort of people.
Sounds at sometimes shallow, but much less than the other side of the spectrum.

[StreetHazard]

Sounds like a pretty good way to be, minus the stepping on people to get what you want. But other than that it sounds like Levayan Satanists sound like an intelligent sort of people.
Sounds at sometimes shallow, but much less than the other side of the spectrum.

It is more of a "wolf in a field of sheep" concept than any deliberate attempt to subvert someone else's life just to achieve the individual satanist's personal goals. the Satanist is also fully aware of the possible consequences of their actions which also help shape their morality.

A satanist believes that if their actions "indirectly" cause another individuals (loss of freedom, loss of wealth, or any other personal hardship, and even loss of life) it is the fault of the individual's NOT the satanist. For it is the individuals fault for not being wiser in their decision making and stronger in their ability to survive in this world.

but this wouldn't mean say an example would be (if the satanist got drunk and drove his/her car onto a bunch of kids) that the satanist would not feel remorse, and fully accept the consequences of their actions.

the degree's in between are determined by the individual Satanists morality...which varies widely, and also makes practicing Satanism a deeply personal choice and not widely shared with others.

another example may be (a Satanist may steal another man's wife, as obviously that man was not strong enough to keep her)

[Starrfire]

So Leveyan satanism is basically summed up to, "Don't hate the player, hate the game".

[StreetHazard]

So Leveyan satanism is basically summed up to, "Don't hate the player, hate the game".

that sounds too tame for the moral viewpoint of a satanist. It would be more akin to "survival of the fittest" but if you intentionally interfere with their goals, they will flat out destroy you.

[Atlblkz06]

Thanks for the detailed response!

I was going to say that this is sort of like "applied capitalism" to life or "Survival of the fittest". Its purely mathematical/tactical and does not involve lame things like feelings. I like your example about the wife - its logically sound but we apply our "morals" to it and screw it up Funny though, there are tribes out there that have elaborate festivals designed to allow men to "steal" away other's wives! Its pretty crazy.

You're right though - it does seem to be highly personal and even flexible. You could possibly have a "good" Satanist who is merely viewed as someone who is "cold and weird". On the other hand you have the extremists who run the risk of being ostracized by "regular" society.

It is more of a "wolf in a field of sheep" concept than any deliberate attempt to subvert someone else's life just to achieve the individual satanist's personal goals. the Satanist is also fully aware of the possible consequences of their actions which also help shape their morality.

A satanist believes that if their actions "indirectly" cause another individuals (loss of freedom, loss of wealth, or any other personal hardship, and even loss of life) it is the fault of the individual's NOT the satanist. For it is the individuals fault for not being wiser in their decision making and stronger in their ability to survive in this world.

but this wouldn't mean say an example would be (if the satanist got drunk and drove his/her car onto a bunch of kids) that the satanist would not feel remorse, and fully accept the consequences of their actions.

the degree's in between are determined by the individual Satanists morality...which varies widely, and also makes practicing Satanism a deeply personal choice and not widely shared with others.

another example may be (a Satanist may steal another man's wife, as obviously that man was not strong enough to keep her)

[bodhi]

I've never met anybody who self-identified himself as a Satanist who wasn't a complete douchebag or a pathetic loser in denial. (Ditto for Christians, Atheists, etc.)

My theory is that if you have to go ask somebody else what you should think and how you should behave, you're too weak and cowardly to make it work for your own life. I read the Satanist Bible right around the time I was interested in Chaos Magic.
My thoughts on it, like any religion is that certain ideas sound good, but there is a lot of superstitious mambo jumbo.

Are Satanist's misunderstood as a religion?
Of course they are, but they did choose Satan as an avatar because he is the scapegoat of Christianity.

If people buy La Vey's book you will find the first half of the book an interesting read, the last half which is about rituals is lame as fuck. It's a classic situation of becoming what you hate. In this case all their rituals resemble Christian rituals but with a "dark twist." It's shit a 16 year old would think of.

In the end it's just like any other idea, religion or philosophy.
If it works, people will use it, if not, they won't. I won't do anything just because that's what it says to do in the Satanic Bible or anywhere else. I make up my own mind, who I am, and what I think and what I'll do. And anybody who thinks different is an obstacle in their own path.
So sayeth The Bodhi, Grand Poobah of Spiritual Retardedness, and author of the book: 10 Rules For Becoming The Bodhi, available wherever books are sold.

[StreetHazard]

I fell into the same conclusion as well, though I am not so sure that every Satanist came to be one by reading the Satanic Bible™. The philosophies of living for yourself and rejecting the unprovable false threats of damnation by Abrahamic religion and the ideas of subjective VS. objective morality relate very well into their lives, and mine as well. But like you, I also find no real need to even attempt to classify myself into any group of religion or philosophy except as a means to help explain my point of view. which is explained in (#5. Herd Conformity) of the Satanic Sins listed above.

Satanism has evolved well passed the ideas put forth in the Satanic Bible™, into something that doesn't even resemble a religion at all, it resembles more of a "philosophy towards life" of completely accepting the human nature in all of it's desires. And many modern self identified Satanists do not even attempt to relate to the ritual aspect of it at all. It fails as being a called a "religion" as much as (creationism is a form of science) or (Islam and Christianity are a religion of peace and tolerance)...Basically saying that attempting to describe them as such, words tend to lose all of their meaning.

I still have not gotten a straight answer out of self-identified Satanists on why even call yourself such as you do not pay homage to any form of deity. but what I have learned, it seems to have more with the ease of describing your beliefs to others by attaching some kind of title too it, and they have adopted one that everyone knows is the absolute rejection of everything having to with god, gods establishments and everything religion stands for, while also embracing free-thought and wisdom with little bit of rebelliousness.

Theistic Satanists are closer to "good old fashioned devil worship" than modern satanists. Theistic Satanists actually do believe in the concept of God and the Devil, of heaven and hell. But view Satan as a positive necessary destructive force in this world, like Yin and Yang, the way forest fires are necessary for the regrowth of new vegetation.

Lucifer is a Latin word, literally meaning "light-bearer", which in that language is used as a name for the dawn appearance of the planet Venus, heralding daylight. in the same way in modern times we refer to the Morning Star. He is used as the god of wisdom and enlightenment where his opposing counterpart Yahweh is the embodiment of ignorance and destruction.

Theistic Satanists in my opinion really are as completely full of shit as their christian counterparts, except Theistic Satanists tend to be a lot more open-minded.



But let us not forget....they are Satanists, so by definition they make all Christians very, very uncomfortable if not outright hostile. Which is why I would be very surprised if a christian posted in here desiring to learn more, if only at least it was to help them understand their enemy. but this line of reasoning, philosophy and thought is like Kryptonite to Superman. It smashes everything a Christian thinks they know about life and the human condition, and is directly opposed to everything they hold sacred in their beliefs.

So Satanist's can't be all to bad in my book. I'll still buy them a beer.

[Nerdsrock22]

As a Christian, I wouldn't consider a Satanist any enemy any more than any other human being on the planet (not at all).

How's that for your "EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN IS OUT TO KILL GAYS AND BULLY PEOPLE" philosophy on life.

[mocha latte cupcake]

As a Christian, I wouldn't consider a Satanist any enemy any more than any other human being on the planet (not at all).

How's that for your "EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN IS OUT TO KILL GAYS AND BULLY PEOPLE" philosophy on life.

second this.

[StreetHazard]

As a Christian, I wouldn't consider a Satanist any enemy any more than any other human being on the planet (not at all).

How's that for your "EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN IS OUT TO KILL GAYS AND BULLY PEOPLE" philosophy on life.

when was that said? if you are referring to the statement I made about the irony of the black christians of this country helping to elect the 1st 1/2 black president, while at the same time denying homosexuals basic civil rights of marriage due to their bigoted beliefs....essentially making them sit in the back of the bus.

I stand by that statement because it is true, and very, very sad. Also the fact that this nation is still so afraid of ancient irrelevant gods it would never elect an atheist president for fear he or she would not help support the religious dogma that has plagued this world like a cancer, has created wars, also held us back from science, learning and evolving our mental state at least 500 years.

look at the poll here

do you believe in God

Yes - 66.24 %

No - 23.89 %


that means almost 67% of the people on this site are capable of believing in boogeymen, and unicorns.

[Nerdsrock22]

when was that said?

I'm assuming.

Every single time you say anything about Christians, it's

A. They are out to get someone.

B. They are trying to brainwash someone.

C. They are plotting revenge on their evil doppelganger's, the Satanists.

I mean seriously dude, you sit here and talk about open-mindedness and liberal thinking, but you can't even look past some false archetype you have of us because of some bad experience you had as a kid or some article you read on atheist.com.

And don't take any of this as me saying you are uneducated or foolish, I'd love to sit down have debate/conversate with you. But seriously, you are taking a 2000 yr old world religion and boiling it down to one very specific version that's convenient for your argument.

[Nerdsrock22]

But let us not forget....they are Satanists, so by definition they make all Christians very, very uncomfortable if not outright hostile. Which is why I would be very surprised if a christian posted in here desiring to learn more, if only at least it was to help them understand their enemy. but this line of reasoning, philosophy and thought is like Kryptonite to Superman. It smashes everything a Christian thinks they know about life and the human condition, and is directly opposed to everything they hold sacred in their beliefs.

So Satanist's can't be all to bad in my book. I'll still buy them a beer.

Oh my, somebody believes something different than I! My feeble brainwashed Christian mind has been crushed to pieces! Where shall I turn now?

[Atlblkz06]

As a Christian, I wouldn't consider a Satanist any enemy any more than any other human being on the planet (not at all).

How's that for your "EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN IS OUT TO KILL GAYS AND BULLY PEOPLE" philosophy on life.

That was the point I was trying to explore - a LONG time ago I thought Satanists were out to "get people" and that they were bad people in general. Then I started thinking - whats the point of being a bad person unless there is personal gain? In today's society - its a harsh living if you're too different from the mainstream crowd.

Then after some research it seems to me that many branches of "Satanism" has nothing to Satan. This kinda kinda like Buddhism and the Buddha - Buddhists don't pray to Buddha but rather lead their lives based on his ideas. But then - Satan has no ideas on life that he handed down so "Satanism" doesn't exist! It should be called "selfishism" or something

[StreetHazard]

Oh my, somebody believes something different than I! My feeble brainwashed Christian mind has been crushed to pieces! Where shall I turn now?

try inward, you wouldn't even be a christian if you were raised in Saudi Arabia or Iran, you would be a Muslim. If you were raised in India chances are you would be a Hindu. Unless you want to delude yourself into thinking that you would have always found the glory of the true faith of Jesus Christ.

that topic is being beat to death like a baby seal elsewhere, and faith will always lose when faced against reason and logic, which is obviously being proven (yet again) there.

[Nerdsrock22]

try inward, you wouldn't even be a christian if you were raised in Saudi Arabia or Iran, you would be a Muslim. If you were raised in India chances are you would be a Hindu. Unless you want to delude yourself into thinking that you would have always found the glory of the true faith of Jesus Christ.

that topic is being beat to death like a baby seal elsewhere, and faith will always lose when faced against reason and logic, which is obviously being proven (yet again) there.

Cool story bro. I had no idea religions developed regionally. I need to learn me more from dem science books.

And I appreciate the advice to look inward. I had never considered thinking critically about my faith and all, seeing as I was born in the South, was indoctrinated from an early age in VBS (Vacation Brainwashing Seminar), and punished brutally by my God-fearing parents until I succumbed to the will of God (HAVE YOU READ MY AUTOBIOGRAPHY?).

Here's a website of more christian cliches you can use.

I'm sorry that my attendance at a weekly community worship service, decision to live morally as best I can, study of scripture, and monthly visit to assist in an Atlanta-based food shelter holds back the advancement of the human race. I tell you what; I'll stay home from church on Sunday and see if y'all book-learnin' folks can't cook up a cure to AIDS or solve the global energy crisis.

[StreetHazard]

I have forgotten what the argument is, or even if there was one in the first place.

Ask a question and let someone answer.

or either one of us could just rant and rave somewhere else.


my severe dislike for ALL religion is not really up to debate and well beyond argument, and most likely so is your faith.

[Nerdsrock22]

Fair enough. Now that I graduated college I don't really get to rant and rave about issues very much anymore. I don't hope you take it personal, not my intention.

As far as Satanism goes, I agree with StreetHazard () about Theistic Satanists. If you are going to worship a God that originates from the Judeo-Christian tradition, at least choose the winning side.

As far as what I consider non-traditional Satanism, which from what I've read and seen (which I admit to be minute and disparate), it appears to be little more than Joker-esque moral anarchy, a.k.a. just being an asshat.

I agree that more people than most folks reckon, including Christians, end up teetering on this closer than they'd like (selfishism).

As far as the list of Satanic sins, I honestly believe that most of that stuff could be gleaned from the Bible just as easily.

[StreetHazard]

I'm assuming.

Every single time you say anything about Christians, it's

A. They are out to get someone.

B. They are trying to brainwash someone.

C. They are plotting revenge on their evil doppelganger's, the Satanists.

I mean seriously dude, you sit here and talk about open-mindedness and liberal thinking, but you can't even look past some false archetype you have of us because of some bad experience you had as a kid or some article you read on atheist.com.

And don't take any of this as me saying you are uneducated or foolish, I'd love to sit down have debate/conversate with you. But seriously, you are taking a 2000 yr old world religion and boiling it down to one very specific version that's convenient for your argument.

I was born and raised in western society, which also means I was born and raised into the religious dogma that helped shape it's society. Abrahamic religious thought is taught to us by every means of communication possible, yet somehow it is still tax except. It's on the airwaves, it's idea's and teachings are reshaped in literature, it is on our televisions and I could walk to the corner of my street and throw a rock and possibly hit about 5 different churches, to door to door salesman from the religious institutions and even evangelicals at car shows .

To claim that I do not have full command of the ideas put forth by the character of Jesus Christ and the mockery the church has become of his teachings, would be the same as claiming I lack the understanding of how to breathe in and out...frankly it's insulting to anyone of average intelligence. Religion IS my Satan. When I hear gods name, I smell sulfur, when I hear his words, I smell death. I can see that his filthy religion has polluted the world I have to live in far more thoroughly than any fossil fuel could ever dream of. And I can see that everything about this God has been purposely designed to poison our experience of life on Earth....NOT to enhance it. To keep us fearful. To suppress knowledge. To curtail freedom and creativity. And to celebrate death. It's nothing less than the dumbing down of the human race. Not to mention the cancer at the heart of it....Jerusalem. That jewel in the desert, that celestial piss-hole in the sand, from which the spiritual black death of the Middle Eastern desert has oozed and spread throughout this world like a vile oil slick, coating and contaminating everything it touches with a thick slime of pious ignorance.....only we don't call it ignorance, we call it faith. The current wars in the Middle east are perfect current examples of these gifts that just keep on giving.

The entire concept of faith should hold no more meaning in our lives than astrology, tarot card reading or sooth-saying with a crystal ball and anyone taking these practices seriously should expect nothing less than to be openly mocked and ridiculed until that individual does some serious re-evaluation of their mental state. But THAT is NOT happening. Instead the free pass that we consistently give to this fake virtue of faith, religion is now completely out of control. The fact their are even blasphemy laws to protect people from hearing words that might crowbar their minds out of the stone age is a perfect illustration of the cowardly immaturity of the religious mind and the emptiness of religion itself.

If I published or spoke these words in almost EVERY other nation in the world at the very LEAST I would be imprisoned and in others I would be killed. In the United Kingdom On 5 March 2008, an amendment was passed to the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 which abolished the common law offences of blasphemy and blasphemous libel in England and Wales. (Common law is abolished, not repealed.) The Act received royal assent on 8 May 2008, and the relevant section came into force on 8 July 2008. That was only last year! In Islamic countries under Sharia Law the sentence is death. This is the nature of Abrahamic Religion.

If religion contained any truth, it could be ridiculed, insulted, even defiled, without being diminished in any way. Its truth would shine through, undimmed, unblemished, shaming those who abused it into silence. But that's just not how things are. The only true thing about religion is that it's false. Its claim to higher knowledge is laughable. It doesn't even have any lower knowledge. Not one of its ludicrous claims about reality would have a hope in hell of standing up in a court of law.....and it's just about time we stop treating them as if they do.

As a Christian, I wouldn't consider a Satanist any enemy any more than any other human being on the planet (not at all).

How's that for your "EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN IS OUT TO KILL GAYS AND BULLY PEOPLE" philosophy on life.

Satan: it's literal translation in Hebrew means "the accuser", in Arabic al-Shaitan means "the adversary" al-Shaitan is the equivalent of Satan in Islam and Jinn, "Iblis" is the personal name of the Devil who is mentioned in the Qur'anic account of Genesis. But I do agree that there are only a few instances in the Bible where Satan is described as having a significant impact on human affairs. So your viewpoint of not considering them as an adversary is commendable. But I also think you are more of an exception and not the resounding consensus.

Mark 3:29 "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never be forgiven, but is guilty of eternal sin."

Again you can reference the blasphemy laws listed above in my previous response and find many instances of imprisonments and death sentences issued for blasphemous speech from many governments across the world.

It was also reported on 21 May 2008 that in Kenya that a mob had burnt to death at least 11 people accused of witchcraft.

And instances of moral panic in the modern West have some similarities to the earlier (and later) witch-hunts. Notably, the hysteria surrounding Satanic ritual abuse, prominent in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere during the 1980s, employed much of the same occult and conspiratorial imagery. We term it "the Satanic Panic"

Cool story bro. I had no idea religions developed regionally. I need to learn me more from dem science books.

And I appreciate the advice to look inward. I had never considered thinking critically about my faith and all, seeing as I was born in the South, was indoctrinated from an early age in VBS (Vacation Brainwashing Seminar), and punished brutally by my God-fearing parents until I succumbed to the will of God (HAVE YOU READ MY AUTOBIOGRAPHY?).

Here's a website of more christian cliches you can use.

I'm sorry that my attendance at a weekly community worship service, decision to live morally as best I can, study of scripture, and monthly visit to assist in an Atlanta-based food shelter holds back the advancement of the human race. I tell you what; I'll stay home from church on Sunday and see if y'all book-learnin' folks can't cook up a cure to AIDS or solve the global energy crisis.

Sarcasm so I will not address this. But this I will

"and monthly visit to assist in an Atlanta-based food shelter holds back the advancement of the human race"

I have as well personally helped out strangers I thought were in need, I personally paid for the mortgage of an individual refered to me from a friend to keep his families home out of foreclosure. I just refuse to help ingrates or those that are unwilling to help themselves, and I also did not need to read it in the bible to help guide my goodwill. I have other instances of this, but this example was the most recent.

[Starrfire]

I personally HATE all religion. It is the cancer of our society in general, always holding everyone back, just like "no child left behind". I grew up in a Christian family, but it didn't make any sense, and after enough of the bull crap and actually listening to what they were saying, I thought to myself, "this is a load of crap", so I never returned. It is actually sad to think that people don't believe in carbon dating, radioactive half life, dinosaurs etc. simply because someone with no scientific background said, "this isn't true". I feel pain for how stupid they really are but laugh on the inside at the same time. I call no religion my own, but can appreciate the core values that all currently being discussed imply. But as with No Child Left Behind, they are performed poorly to feeble minds willing to absorb their words like a sponge, and dispel all other ways of thinking.

[Nerdsrock22]

Your thoughtful and intelligent responses are appreciated and commendable.

I'll handle mine with the same respect.

In regards to your words about criminal punishment for blasphemy, I completely agree that any legal or social punishment dealt out to non-practicioners of a religion is an abomination to what I believe are the true teachings of Christ. The vast majority of Jesus Christ's rebukes (as recorded in the New Testament) were towards those of his own religion. It is my belief that any person or government who uses force to propel one's own belief system into dominance is both wrong and, if Christian or Jew, guilty of sin.

That goes for Constantine, that goes for the Crusaders, that goes for the Spanish Inquisition, and that goes for the United States government. I assure you, you will find no greater advocate of the separation of church and state than I.

If religion contained any truth, it could be ridiculed, insulted, even defiled, without being diminished in any way. Its truth would shine through, undimmed, unblemished, shaming those who abused it into silence. But that's just not how things are. The only true thing about religion is that it's false. Its claim to higher knowledge is laughable.

This argument doesn't get very far with me.

This same argument could have been used by the Catholic Church pre-Enlightment in regards to science. Just because the modern dictators of truth don't agree that some idea is true, that hardly means that its a throwaway.

I have as well personally helped out strangers I thought were in need, I personally paid for the mortgage of an individual refered to me from a friend to keep his families home out of foreclosure. I just refuse to help ingrates or those that are unwilling to help themselves, and I also did not need to read it in the bible to help guide my goodwill. I have other instances of this, but this example was the most recent.

I would expect nothing less than that. My argument was not to suggest that Christians hold sole ownership of goodwill, only that there are Christians that exist who have aligned themselves with the words of Christ and fight for the goodwill of man, rather than the advancement of a civil religion.

Furthermore, I share your concern with who you refer to as the "ingrates or those that are unwilling to help themselves". I have been involved with enough churches, food pantries, and soup kitchens to know that while a solid handshake is always available, the availablity of certain resources is limited, and must be handled with temperance and effectiveness. Believe me, I've handed out bread to a man who opened the back hatch of his Escalade with a keyfob twenty yards away; however, I do not know that man's story and stand in no place to judge his needs. While I certainly won't be offering any money for his car payments, I will not refuse him goodwill.

[SampaGuy]

I agree with almost all of those "Satanic Sins" yet I'm far from being a satanist. This is like labeling everyone that is left-handed as homosexuals, or saying people that eat donuts have aids. One thing has nothing to do with the other. None of those "Sins" have anything to do with praising satan or being evil.

[geoff]

[QUOTE]To claim that I do not have full command of the ideas put forth by the character of Jesus Christ and the mockery the church has become of his teachings, would be the same as claiming I lack the understanding of how to breathe in and out...frankly it's insulting to anyone of average intelligence. Religion IS my Satan. When I hear gods name, I smell sulfur, when I hear his words, I smell death. I can see that his filthy religion has polluted the world I have to live in far more thoroughly than any fossil fuel could ever dream of. And I can see that everything about this God has been purposely designed to poison our experience of life on Earth....NOT to enhance it. To keep us fearful. To suppress knowledge. To curtail freedom and creativity. And to celebrate death. It's nothing less than the dumbing down of the human race. Not to mention the cancer at the heart of it....Jerusalem. That jewel in the desert, that celestial piss-hole in the sand, from which the spiritual black death of the Middle Eastern desert has oozed and spread throughout this world like a vile oil slick, coating and contaminating everything it touches with a thick slime of pious ignorance.....only we don't call it ignorance, we call it faith. The current wars in the Middle east are perfect current examples of these gifts that just keep on giving.

The entire concept of faith should hold no more meaning in our lives than astrology, tarot card reading or sooth-saying with a crystal ball and anyone taking these practices seriously should expect nothing less than to be openly mocked and ridiculed until that individual does some serious re-evaluation of their mental state. But THAT is NOT happening. Instead the free pass that we consistently give to this fake virtue of faith, religion is now completely out of control. The fact their are even blasphemy laws to protect people from hearing words that might crowbar their minds out of the stone age is a perfect illustration of the cowardly immaturity of the religious mind and the emptiness of religion itself. /QUOTE]



i love this. you sit hear and put down any religion and all faith and say that it is a sort of way to kill and steal and what not yet, we live in a Godless nation where the moto is save the trees, kill the children. are you serious man? religion should be taken as tarot cards and crystal balls? RELIGION is messed up, its been twisted by man and been indoctrinated with selfish brainwashing poisons. BUT, that does not mean that christianity or my God is rubbish. you refuse Christ and His teachings cuz you didnt agree with what you were taught as a child, your grown now, search for truth in your own way and you will find Christ at the end my friend.

[StreetHazard]

I agree with almost all of those "Satanic Sins" yet I'm far from being a satanist. This is like labeling everyone that is left-handed as homosexuals, or saying people that eat donuts have aids. One thing has nothing to do with the other. None of those "Sins" have anything to do with praising satan or being evil.

Again, Its teachings are based on individualism, self-indulgence, and "eye for an eye" morality. Unlike Theistic Satanists, LaVeyan Satanists are atheists, agnostics, and Deists who regard Satan as a symbol of man's inherent nature. According to religioustolerance.org, LaVeyan Satanism is a "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies"

Anyone that lives their life Godless by the Abrahamic religious point of view, could almost concider themselves Satanic.That would be up to the individual to decide whether or not they self-identify with the philosophies put forth by the concept of Modern Non-Thestic Satanism.

Here are more


The Nine Satanic Statements

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all.
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years![16]

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. (see sexual harrassment.)
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved. (see stealing.)
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm young children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

[StreetHazard]

sorry about the color of the copy and paste, I am very busy sinning over this winter solstice and I am way to fucked up to figure out how to change the color.

[StreetHazard]

i love this. you sit hear and put down any religion and all faith and say that it is a sort of way to kill and steal and what not yet, we live in a Godless nation where the moto is save the trees, kill the children. are you serious man? religion should be taken as tarot cards and crystal balls? RELIGION is messed up, its been twisted by man and been indoctrinated with selfish brainwashing poisons. BUT, that does not mean that christianity or my God is rubbish. you refuse Christ and His teachings cuz you didnt agree with what you were taught as a child, your grown now, search for truth in your own way and you will find Christ at the end my friend.

I think you also might need to re-read what I wrote before. There really shouldn't be any question of where I get my viewpoint from, they are from what I perceive as real life. I will address this "a Godless nation where the moto is save the trees, kill the children".

Genesis 22:1-24 the story from the Bible in which God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac, on Mount Moriah when god was testing Abraham to see if he would actually kill his own son as a test of his loyalty. If you take your god at his word, and this falsely wise (if not jealous, wrathful, vindictive, hateful, obviously inhuman and down right vicious and evil) god obviously had no problem with ordering one of his own adhearents to kill his own son. Then why would you have such a problem with child killing? Your phony virtue and fake morality is meaningless to me...

A godless nation? I desire a godless world where this story holds no more weight than ones to be found in greek mythology, and next to it is exactly where the "Holy" Bible belongs. A god like this and the ignorance and hate his "wisdom" breeds in his believers are my enemy and whose ideas go against everything I know of right and wrong. Just rereading the "word of god" to place it here filled me with revulsion. And when it comes to your sacred imaginary character Jesus Christ.

For one it would take a far strech of the imagination to even believe that Christ even exisited at all, there is no evidence of his life outside of your bible even with all of his legendary accomplishments. His prophesied birth, his miraclous conception from a virgin, all of the miracles he performed, the life changing sermons he performed with his apostles to finally his ultimate masochistic act of allowing himself to be nailed to plank for our "sins". You would think someone of his time would have taken notice of all of these accomplishments, yet there is no mention of any of this from any scholars or historians of his time. We have records of other notable figures that are mentianed in the bible, but none of the individual the entire body of work is centered upon.

Even if Jesus was and somehow still (is) real, I just wish he would have asked us first before he went through with his cruxifiction. Because now I feel like I am being "billed for something I never ordered", or "being forced to pay for something that I already own". He killed himself for our "sins", for our human nature. And the message we are left with is if we do not give out lives over to him and his father we will roast in the fiery pits of hell for eternity, and I do not do very well existing under threats of punishment and damnation. Now there certainly is some wisdom to impart from his teachings, but definatly not enough for me to give my life over to him and call him my lord and master, I will sooner take a bullet straight through my skull than call ANYONE or ANYTHING my lord and master. No thank you Jesus but I am doing quite fine on my own.

If Jesus walked through my front door right now wearing TEVO sandles, dragging his bloodied cross and told me.

"I am here, I am real, give your life to me and follow my path, I will grant you joy and peace in this life and you will be in the house and kingdom of my father YAHWEH in the afterlife."

I would say

"Is your father home? Because THAT guy is a fucking asshole, and HIS house is the last place I want to go!"

[Starrfire]

^^^Well, at least to the last part that would give you something that Christianity lacks..."proof". I like what I'm seeing with this whole new glimpse into the so called nemesis of Christianity, whose views are not as different as those implied by the other.

[ash7]

StreetHazard is posting in this thread like he's trying to prove something to himself.

Call me a "bad Christian" or whatever, but i avoid conversations with people like this as they'll allllways have something smart to say simply because my faith is exactly that - FAITH.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Hebrews 11:1

Which means that while i cannot prove what i believe with physical evidence, i can see the workings of Christ in others lives, as well as my own. Satanism, (regardless of the "brand" referred to) is just good ol' fashioned Narcissism. It's a very easy religion to follow as it adheres to the "every man for himself" principle instead of the "every man for others" mindset.

If i may refer to the OP, i believe he is correct. From a Christian's point of view, things of this world (example: the WL), is not of Christ. Therefore it is of Satan. The Bible clearly draws this line in 1John 4:4 which says: "You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world."

There are two entities at work in this life, the darkness and the light. I have made my decision, and do my best to live by example in order to lead others to salvation.
-jonathan

[StreetHazard]

If I belived in something, but never proved it by acting on it...then that would make me full of shit. And I like writing and sharing ideas, I am just glad I am protected by that whole "freedom of speech" thing or this page alone could get me killed.

[Starrfire]

The downfall of Christianity is that it is not living for others for MOST Christians. If it was, it would be like the entire country would be enacting the entire movie, "Yes Man". Living for yourself has such a much smaller gray area, not to say that you can't help someone out every now and then. But to claim to live for others is in my eyes not what 97% of Christians are doing, making the religion as a whole faulty in my eyes.

I believe that people are put on this planet to do a job, and to serve others with their work. Not to be their welfare but do a service that they can use/buy. I am not a Christian but like their values and the Satanic values alike, I pick and choose how I live and it isn't because someone wrote it down and said, "this is how IT IS because I said so, and I don't have any proof either".

Religion is moral cancer.

[geoff]

no proof of Jesus ever existing or His miracles huh?


Cornelius Tacitus,Flavius Josephus,Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian. there are also numerous writings from jewish historians and philosophers that wrote about Jesus the man and the miracles He did but from a non believer point. there is no arguing that a man named Jesus was born and started a ministry and performed great things and preached and was crucified and that christianity was founded by Him. its faith that He was God in flesh and the same God of the jews that christians believe.

now before you say this has no standing or that you just blow it off, consider this, do you know that george washington was real or king tut or julius caesar, ect...any historical figure that died before modern technology? no you dont, you believe because there is historical writings of them by credible sources.

[StreetHazard]

no proof of Jesus ever existing or His miracles huh?

is that all Geoff?

sigh....for those that are lazy, maybe not for biblical researchers (which is almost a contradiction in terms like claiming creationism is a form of science) but historical scholars.

His story almost mirrors exactly those found in more ancient religions like Mesopotamia, in Greek mythology and in the worship of Mithras. so why should I believe the one portrayed in the new testament as the "true" story? But sadly all of this doesn't really matter at all....because you believe I will burn in the fiery pits of Hades, in terrible agony...for all eternity because I have turned my back on the Son, the father, and the Holy spirit, which also makes any point you are trying to make the equivalent of taking a shit in a glass of water and expecting me to drink it.

I could cure Cancer, AIDS, develop technology that ends world hunger and colonize mars, but I would STILL be judged into eternal damnation by your narcissistic, murderous and jealous god. So you see, it does not really matter if he existed or not.

[geoff]

1. that link actually supports my side
2. there are similarities of the stories, EXCEPT for the part of Jesus being real and eye witnesses to His life and miracles. whether some want to argue the authenticity of parts or some words, they can all agree that Jesus was real. can they say that about mohamed or buhda or kirshna or who ever else......no
3. did you really try and use wikipedia to prove something?
4. what exactly did you teach me here?

[StreetHazard]

Geoff....I am not going to continue this if you refuse to read what I said

I will even go so far as say Jesus IS real and he outside of my house waiting for me to pull the nails out of his arms.

[IMPORTchic]

EDIT!!!!!!! RAM AKA ATLBLKZ06 hacked my computer right in front of me! I have no dogs in this fight!!!!!

[jorgen]

and the flesh will wage war against the soul.

just two sides to the same story.

[Total_Blender]

2. there are similarities of the stories, EXCEPT for the part of Jesus being real and eye witnesses to His life and miracles.

Tell me about the specific texts within which eyewitnesses on Jesus Christ wrote about him in his own lifetime. The main one touted by Christians that I am aware of is Josephus, and that has been debated by modern scholars as the original text has not survived and the existing text may have been altered by a translator. Also, the Testimonium Flavium was not written during the Earthly lifetime of Jesus, and is not an eyewitness account.

All of the other Roman accounts such as Pliny, etc are about the Early Christians and not so much about the man Christ himself, as these accounts were written after Christ's death (and "resurrection" if that's what you believe). I am unaware of any first-person eyewitness account of Jesus Christ from a Roman source.

[geoff]

can you give me an eyewitness account of socratese, plato, or on many of the big historical figures. just as with some composers and painters, most writings of these people, bethoven, van goh, picaso, Jesus, ect...were not of the great things they did while they were alive but it was when these great men were gone that more interest and the writings happened.