Does a Good God exclude the possibility of a Bad World?

[sport_122]

i have a question for the OP...

is the thought of a god really rational? or any more rational than the conclusion you mentioned in the first post?

not trying to change your beliefs or preach or anything, but alot of the stories told by the bible are EXTREMELY irrational and far-fetched, with the only explanation being that it is "gods work". that essentialy explains an impossible series of events by using an opinion, or an un-proven and impossible to prove basis, which SCIENTIFICALLY makes the answer to that question invalid. its very similar to someone asking "why is an e30 better than an e36?" with the answer being "because i like them better". whether people want to believe it or not, science is the basis of all things and the only way to 100% prove anything, yet theres no scientific proof or evidence that god does or doesnt exist.

Science does not really prove anything. The scientific community itself does not even agree on many things so it cannot be viewed as authoritative on anything. Science is subjective like most things. It asks a question and answers it. but its very foundations are often made up of things that are not really testable because the tests themselves require the use of things that are not fully known. More questions arise from scientific study than answers. The chain of questions never end with science, and there is ALWAYS infinite things to be known, and science cannot grasp it.

Science is split on the idea of the origins of man, and scientific laws don't even have to be proven. They can be proven wrong and in some cases still called a law. Some things are not even understood, but called laws because they are highly observed.

Even the very nature of science has its misconceptions as to how valid its studies, tests etc are so trying to use science to prove anything is pointless. Also, for the things that we know about this world, many of them were known long before the age of reason and the scientific method.

[/QUOTE]... MANY people that let their religions influence them in a good way, but too many others who use it to discriminate, belittle, and hurt others. in my opinion, there is no such thing as a wrong or right religion, but there is people out there who act in ways that the founders and fathers of the churches etc. never EVER intended. the bible, koran, etc are all VERY similar and are more like stories with morals that have alot to teach about humanity and that have alot to teach to people, until they are misconstrued into negative things.[/QUOTE]

I mostly agree on this, which is why I think it is important to do your own research on the foundations of faith, and scientific study before coming to a conclusion that a faith is wrong, because more than likely its the individual.

I do believe there are wrong or false religions out there.

[Thighs]

Science does not really prove anything. The scientific community itself does not even agree on many things so it cannot be viewed as authoritative on anything. Science is subjective like most things. It asks a question and answers it. but its very foundations are often made up of things that are not really testable because the tests themselves require the use of things that are not fully known. More questions arise from scientific study than answers. The chain of questions never end with science, and there is ALWAYS infinite things to be known, and science cannot grasp it.

Science is split on the idea of the origins of man, and scientific laws don't even have to be proven. They can be proven wrong and in some cases still called a law. Some things are not even understood, but called laws because they are highly observed.

Even the very nature of science has its misconceptions as to how valid its studies, tests etc are so trying to use science to prove anything is pointless. Also, for the things that we know about this world, many of them were known long before the age of reason and the scientific method.

... MANY people that let their religions influence them in a good way, but too many others who use it to discriminate, belittle, and hurt others. in my opinion, there is no such thing as a wrong or right religion, but there is people out there who act in ways that the founders and fathers of the churches etc. never EVER intended. the bible, koran, etc are all VERY similar and are more like stories with morals that have alot to teach about humanity and that have alot to teach to people, until they are misconstrued into negative things.[/QUOTE]

I mostly agree on this, which is why I think it is important to do your own research on the foundations of faith, and scientific study before coming to a conclusion that a faith is wrong, because more than likely its the individual.

I do believe there are wrong or false religions out there.[/QUOTE]

i never said faith was wrong. i do, however, believe that 90% of the stories in the bible are just as they seem, stories. stories that should be read and DEFINITELY learned from, but still stories.

the difference between using science vs. faith to explain things is this:

science CAN be proven 100%. it may not have been so far, but it CAN be. everything that happens naturally is an "effect" to a "cause", and it creates a pattern that will be repeated until the end of time. religion cannot and will not ever be proven, unless there is some sort of LARGE and obvious event that proves it.

[sport_122]

science CAN be proven 100%. it may not have been so far, but it CAN be. everything that happens naturally is an "effect" to a "cause", and it creates a pattern that will be repeated until the end of time. religion cannot and will not ever be proven, unless there is some sort of LARGE and obvious event that proves it.

This is not true. All scientist realize that for any question that is answered several more will arise. Scientist do not approach study with the idea that they are going to know everything about the way something works when that study is complete. Which is one of the reason that many scientist are starting to call science a religion. Because they realize that they have to use faith in what they do as well. To take the concepts from one study that is not 100% and to apply them to another only increases margin of error. The very nature of human development and understanding tells us that science is NEVER 100%. The way we understand something in an experiment today, can be completely different a year from now. Therefore anything revealed from that experiment has to be re-interpreted to be understood and it was not 100%. Which goes back to my statements about knowledge in its existence being eternal yet we cannot grasp it through science because it comes after revelation, only through revelation (things being made known over a period of time)

There are many scientific theories and laws that have been retracted.

can you provide an example of a 100% correct science/scientific study? Is there a chance that this study could be proven false or inaccurate? If so then I will completely retract my statement. Feel free to ask a professor or a science teacher.

[Paul]

This is not true. All scientist realize that for any question that is answered several more will arise. Scientist do not approach study with the idea that they are going to know everything about the way something works when that study is complete. Which is one of the reason that many scientist are starting to call science a religion. Because they realize that they have to use faith in what they do as well. To take the concepts from one study that is not 100% and to apply them to another only increases margin of error. The very nature of human development and understanding tells us that science is NEVER 100%. The way we understand something in an experiment today, can be completely different a year from now. Therefore anything revealed from that experiment has to be re-interpreted to be understood and it was not 100%. Which goes back to my statements about knowledge in its existence being eternal yet we cannot grasp it through science because it comes after revelation, only through revelation (things being made known over a period of time)

There are many scientific theories and laws that have been retracted.

can you provide an example of a 100% correct science/scientific study? Is there a chance that this study could be proven false or inaccurate? If so then I will completely retract my statement. Feel free to ask a professor or a science teacher.

modern science even w/ its short existence will explain life/man a lot quicker than religion will with fact based questions/answers. religion is far from being able to give the human race such - it just satisfies the need people have for questions.