Does a Good God exclude the possibility of a Bad World?

[bookthief]

First off, nice s14. I got a 97 and I love it

That's not his car

[bookthief]

I'm actualy quite embarrassed to say that bookthief is related to me after reading this thread.

But to answer the OP this is what I think.

Suffering is the price we pay for free will. For God to eliminate suffering he would have to override our free will. Since humans are morally free creatures, we are able to do wrong if we choose it. If I wanted to murder people, I can. This would cause suffering. How would God eliminate my ability to murder? He would have to undermine my free choice.

So ask yourself, what is the greater evil: A world where suffering exists, or a world where we would not possess free action, a world where we were puppets?

Suffering is unavoidable in a world with free choice.

As the buddhists say, suffering is real, but suffering is temporary. Buddhism teaches that there will be an end to suffering, where christianity teaches endless suffering in hell. I am clearly not a buddhist or a christian but I appreciate teachings like that. Also, there are a lot of dumbfucks in this thread who know very little about this topic who think they know what they're talking about. Sadly though they're looking like complete morons.

On the contrary, I should be the one to be mortified stating that you are related to me.
And uh...quick question..since you know both sides to "religion" which side are you on? I know you claim yourself an athiest/agnostic, whichever.. my point is-I actually think you are slowly, but surely falling into the 'real' side.

(If you catch my drift)

[bookthief]

everything you just stated only exists in your mind b/c i don't believe in your god nor your heaven/hell. furthermore a "god" who knows everything would have to be filled w/ good/evil b/c he purposely built his pets to fail.

i love how people talk like they hang out w/ god on a daily basis - the human mind can't even comprehend what a GOD is or what a GOD intended so thinking all of the answers to lifes mysterys are in the big book is a life not lived.

I don't have much of a faith. But I'll let you know, I have my own. Isn't that the ultimate meaning to life? Finding your own way, striving your path, and ultimately finding your own happiness? I've looked into the other faiths, I've looked at life. I take what I like, and I try and live by them. I don't need a single set of rules to hold me down and make me a good person. A person can have his or her own beliefs about the world.

[Paul]

I don't have much of a faith. But I'll let you know, I have my own. Isn't that the ultimate meaning to life? Finding your own way, striving your path, and ultimately finding your own happiness? I've looked into the other faiths, I've looked at life. I take what I like, and I try and live by them. I don't need a single set of rules to hold me down and make me a good person. A person can have his or her own beliefs about the world.

well you seem to be alot more open minded about your religion than you came off in some of your post. whatever works for you; for me God is Dead in this day in age.

[bookthief]

well you seem to be alot more open minded about your religion than you came off in some of your post. whatever works for you; for me God is Dead in this day in age.

That's just it Paul, I don't have a religion.
Whenever my mother claims that 'we' are christians, I just remain silent.
I don't know what to think/believe anymore

[sport_122]

That's just it Paul, I don't have a religion.
Whenever my mother claims that 'we' are christians, I just remain silent.
I don't know what to think/believe anymore

I honestly feel like in some ways this is better than being the person who just agrees to be Christian with no real thought to it. I just hope that whether you decide what faith is for you or not, that you really investigate and have a firm understanding of WHY you believe what you believe. On all sides of the theist, non-theist, and atheist debate there are too many people who just do it because they heard someone else who is just as uninformed and ungrounded say it and they have NO idea why they believe anything or why their understanding is such. This bothers me about the totality of the Christian faiths especially in America, and especially in the south.

[Maniacc]

Atleast now, you can admit you're a a dumbass.

Why is it that everytime I present people with some facts about their stupidity they automatically assume that somehow I'm full of shit?

Is it because they're tardfucks who can't handle being called incompetent one-eyed inbreds with a huge desire to be successful only to come to the realization a few seconds later that they just do not have the brain capacity to succeed?

Nissantuner, stop trying to crawl up behind me like a one-legged homeless man begging for change - it's embarrassing and quite frankly I'm tired of having you try soo hard to get my attention just so you can attempt to flame me only to look like a complete dumbass who's obviously having whirls of sexual confusion and trying to cover up this homosexual curiosity by making pinkpony threads and claiming to find girls attractive. Stop fronting faggot.

And stop acting like you know anything about religion. I haven't read any of your posts but just by reading some of your past posts I can already safely say that they contain about as much useful information as garbage man has to the study of neuroscience. Shit, even my little sister has out smarted you in this thread. So just shut the fuck up.

[Maniacc]

On the contrary, I should be the one to be mortified stating that you are related to me.
And uh...quick question..since you know both sides to "religion" which side are you on? I know you claim yourself an athiest/agnostic, whichever.. my point is-I actually think you are slowly, but surely falling into the 'real' side.

(If you catch my drift)

Only thing you need to be mortified about is your daily trip to the restroom. You know. Where there's mirrors 'n shit?

Now sit down and pay attention because I'm not going to drag this on and on until I just completely make you look like a retarded shit covered dildo. Not with you. Your whole argument doesn't amount to shit because it's nothing but your own opinion on it. You can't provide us with facts that God exists nor that he provides us with free will. PERIOD!

So all your babbling and facts are irrelevant because you can't prove shit and only go by your faith and beliefs.

[Maniacc]

I can't really agree with the free will thing. If you are basing it on what the Bible says then suffering is a product of sin not free will. Much like punishing your child when he does something wrong. He doesn't get punished for making ANY choice, ONLY when he does what you told him not to. With your statement "Suffering is unavoidable in a world with free choice." What if everyone made the right choice? That is why it doesn't work. Also I think if you use either one of these definition, it shows that there are consequences to decisions which means that there is something universal about right and wrong.

Wake up. Living organisms have an agenda which is to survive. S U R V I V E!

Pretty simple. Eat the weak and survive. You'll evetually get killed by a stronger, younger being thus causing the cycle of life to continue. There is no mysterious phenomena occurring here! Just life.

If you can't comprehend that then just stop trying me. Because I've debated religion for a long long time! On IA, in person, in church, you name it. I can go on for days and days. You think you can provide me with some entertainment? Lemme tell you something. NO one on IA can which is why I don't even bother to debate it anymore.

Because it's a waste of my time.

People commit evil because we're not some pansy fucks who would rather live in a garden of flowers drinking tea and talking about the times we helped build a new school/church, gave food to charity, ect. That's all gay shit. We would rather act like animals in one way or another. Which is why people drink, smoke do bad, fuck random girls/guys, commit murder... because we're not a peaceful species. And that's the truth.

I believe (this is subjective and you don't have to agree) suffering is unavoidable in a world with sin. i think that suffering is a product of sin, and sin is a product of disobedience, whether its God or its your parents beating your butt when you disobey the point is you get punished. I believe that somehow all suffering is a product of sin. ONLY because I believe that there is universal law and breaking those laws causes damage.

No. It's because we're curious fucks.


....

PS: If you don't know me, know that I'm a very very big douchebag. Don't take what I say to heart - religion is just a subject that bugs the fuck outta me. Especially when I think the other person's retort is filled with stupidity.

[RL...]

Why is it that everytime I present people with some facts about their stupidity they automatically assume that somehow I'm full of shit?

Is it because they're tardfucks who can't handle being called incompetent one-eyed inbreds with a huge desire to be successful only to come to the realization a few seconds later that they just do not have the brain capacity to succeed?

Nissantuner, stop trying to crawl up behind me like a one-legged homeless man begging for change - it's embarrassing and quite frankly I'm tired of having you try soo hard to get my attention just so you can attempt to flame me only to look like a complete dumbass who's obviously having whirls of sexual confusion and trying to cover up this homosexual curiosity by making pinkpony threads and claiming to find girls attractive. Stop fronting faggot.

And stop acting like you know anything about religion. I haven't read any of your posts but just by reading some of your past posts I can already safely say that they contain about as much useful information as garbage man has to the study of neuroscience. Shit, even my little sister has out smarted you in this thread. So just shut the fuck up.

I get more attractive girls than you have masturbated to maniac, get off my nuts and go find qd. He's into that type of thing ya know...

[Maniacc]

I get more attractive girls than you have masturbated to maniac, get off my nuts and go find qd. He's into that type of thing ya know...

Only time that I masturbate is when I'm about to shoot a huge warm load into my girlfriend's mouth. I'm sure you know what that's like. Only difference is that when this goes down with you, you're the one on the opposite side of the dick taking that warm load like a champ. Admit it your fucksticle. You love the dick and just reading this is making your mouth water.

Seriously dude just stop.

This isn't the whores lounge which means there really isn't anyone here that'll laugh at you so this doesn't entertain me. So just stop trailing behind me like a lost dog and just hop onto that road of failure and fuck off.

[bookthief]

I honestly feel like in some ways this is better than being the person who just agrees to be Christian with no real thought to it. I just hope that whether you decide what faith is for you or not, that you really investigate and have a firm understanding of WHY you believe what you believe. On all sides of the theist, non-theist, and atheist debate there are too many people who just do it because they heard someone else who is just as uninformed and ungrounded say it and they have NO idea why they believe anything or why their understanding is such. This bothers me about the totality of the Christian faiths especially in America, and especially in the south.

I hear ya...I can honestly say I am bewildered by 'religion' all around.
So much variety it's not even funny--it's scary.
Many people are easily duped, they follow and believe anything or anyone they hear. They have no minds of their own. And I definately don't want that happening with me. I guess I'll just try and live by the way, I think is right and see where it ends up...

[bookthief]

Only thing you need to be mortified about is your daily trip to the restroom. You know. Where there's mirrors 'n shit?

Now sit down and pay attention because I'm not going to drag this on and on until I just completely make you look like a retarded shit covered dildo. Not with you. Your whole argument doesn't amount to shit because it's nothing but your own opinion on it. You can't provide us with facts that God exists nor that he provides us with free will. PERIOD!

So all your babbling and facts are irrelevant because you can't prove shit and only go by your faith and beliefs.

1970 called--they want their mirror joke back.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
I know its an opinion, everyone has one, including you, gunt.
'You can't provide us with facts'/'So all your babbling and facts are'

^^which one is it?


Look Alex, I'm not gonna argue with you either. Im so fed up with this bologna. I know with all the documents you see and hear on T.V. or read on the internet, has driven you to believe in whatever it is you believe.
Im not with you and im not against you. I just want you to make money and have a good life with your future wife.
Just like you have opinions/beliefs, so does everyone else. Don't always try and be the 'right one' or the top dog, relating to such an inexplicable topic.
you will contradict others and vis-versa.

[Maniacc]

1970 called--they want their mirror joke back.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
I know its an opinion, everyone has one, including you, gunt.
'You can't provide us with facts'/'So all your babbling and facts are'

^^which one is it?


Look Alex, I'm not gonna argue with you either. Im so fed up with this bologna. I know with all the documents you see and hear on T.V. or read on the internet, has driven you to believe in whatever it is you believe.
Im not with you and im not against you. I just want you to make money and have a good life with your future wife.
Just like you have opinions/beliefs, so does everyone else. Don't always try and be the 'right one' or the top dog, relating to such an inexplicable topic.
you will contradict others and vis-versa.

I guess I should have empathized 'facts' huh? Maybe then you could have sensed my sarcasm when I said 'So all your babbling and facts are irrelevant.' I thought you would be smart enough to catch it but I guess you fooled me.

I'm not trying to put you or your beliefs down by posting to you the way that I am. You're smarter than this which is why I'm embarrassed to read you trying so hard to sound smart. It's just too adorable. Now shut up and stop putting my business out there on teh web - I has no wife, k.

[bookthief]

I guess I should have empathized 'facts' huh? Maybe then you could have sensed my sarcasm when I said 'So all your babbling and facts are irrelevant.' I thought you would be smart enough to catch it but I guess you fooled me.

I'm not trying to put you or your beliefs down by posting to you the way that I am. You're smarter than this which is why I'm embarrassed to read you trying so hard to sound smart. It's just too adorable. Now shut up and stop putting my business out there on teh web - I has no wife, k.

Laugh out fuckin loud...
Ever thought maybe, I was making a funny as well?
It's just comical to me when you say I have beliefs--I don't.
Like I said, I don't know anymore, and I don't really care.
Im not even trying.
Like you.
Now be a good little boy and clean the house before the girlfriend gets home

[RL...]

Only time that I masturbate is when I'm about to shoot a huge warm load into my girlfriend's mouth. I'm sure you know what that's like. Only difference is that when this goes down with you, you're the one on the opposite side of the dick taking that warm load like a champ. Admit it your fucksticle. You love the dick and just reading this is making your mouth water.

Seriously dude just stop.

This isn't the whores lounge which means there really isn't anyone here that'll laugh at you so this doesn't entertain me. So just stop trailing behind me like a lost dog and just hop onto that road of failure and fuck off.

Wow you are delusional aren't you...I think you confuse your sexual habits with mine, you're the cocksucker, not me...

[Maniacc]

Wow you are delusional aren't you...I think you confuse your sexual habits with mine, you're the cocksucker, not me...

I've listened to atheist arguments from nearly every source; such as Richard Dawkins, Penn Jillette, and even my college roommate. This is the best evidence I've ever seen for the absence of a God.

[RL...]

I've listened to atheist arguments from nearly every source; such as Richard Dawkins, Penn Jillette, and even my college roommate. This is the best evidence I've ever seen for the absence of a God.

Your 2 inch pecker dick should be attributed the best evidence for the absence of god....