Ok, this should get this section going AR-15 VS AK-47

[Truegiant]

Ok.. I just voted. Shit I just hoped on to ia for the first time and found this forum. I read the whole thread and will hit a few key notes tomorrow. I am about to head to bed.

- stock ergonomics is a big factor because when I wear my gear my stock is in a different location then when i am not.

- Rail Accessory interface is a huge factor. On my weapon at work I have a PAQ2 / mars / flashlight / pen flare adaptor/ buis/ fufis. All are necessary for any mission you go on when deployed

- ergonomics is a huge factor. not only when you have to carry it for 8-10 hours a day on patrol but when doing things like slicing the pie, over unders, mout, ebcr, you want the most compact weapon platform.

To hit on the reliability point here. Most people that own ar's and have ftf/fte problems are shooting cheap ammo, using shit magazines, and have not lubbed up there weapon. I am not saying the ar is better here. I will be the first to admit that an ak is more reliable. We had back up "truck" guns in iraq that we had captured from insurgents. They were ak's. At any point in time you could pick one up and it would fire. But do no be mistaken when i say that i have come across my fare share of shit ak's.

I have shot several variations of ar's. SBR, SDM, 6.5, 6.8, 308, etc.. I would love for my team leaders to carry atleast a 6.8 for there room brooms and my rifleman the standard 5.56 , the only problem with that is if one runs out of ammo they dont interchange. I feel both are compatible in there own right. I have three ar's in my gun cabinet as we speak. I do not currently own an ak because i am in the process of having some of my own custom peices machined for public sale on the ar platform and i needed some test beds.

You all have a good night.

[Truegiant]

Oh incase anyone cares.

US ARMY Infantry. I have many more schools both in the military and out involving weapons if anyone is wondering where I have formed my opinions from.

[VTECking]

Shot for shot, a 7.62 is tearing shit up and the 5.56 is just cutting a nice little hole.

Not necessarly true, when the 5.56 penetrates its target it tumbles and shatters leaving the target with a shit load of lead throughout the point of impact and around it. So dont completely bag on the 5.56 saying that its small and wouldnt do anything, thats the mistake that the vietcong made in the Vietnam conflict when the M16 A1 first came out, and they obvioulsy thought wrong. So essencially the 5.56 is tearing shit up, and the 7.62 is knocking shit down and punching a decent sized hole in its target.

[Frög]

Not necessarly true, when the 5.56 penetrates its target it tumbles and shatters leaving the target with a shit load of lead throughout the point of impact and around it. So dont completely bag on the 5.56 saying that its small and wouldnt do anything, thats the mistake that the vietcong made in the Vietnam conflict when the M16 A1 first came out, and they obvioulsy thought wrong. So essencially the 5.56 is tearing shit up, and the 7.62 is knocking shit down and punching a decent sized hole in its target.

AK-47 won the war.. Swamp, mud, rice fields, we couldn't shoot.. They could.. Maybe if we had a better gun, we wouldn't have lost that war..

[Danny]

the ar platform has changed alot since vietnam, its a whole new weapon in terms of reliability compared to back then.

[VTECking]

AK-47 won the war.. Swamp, mud, rice fields, we couldn't shoot.. They could.. Maybe if we had a better gun, we wouldn't have lost that war..

If we had a foward assist on the M16A1 for the first half of the conflict, the gun would have been alot more deadly too. But I do agree with you, the AK is definatley more durable gun. But Id still take a AR over an AK any day just because of the accuracy, and you can carry more ammo on you because the 5.56 is alot smaller than the 7.62, and all you have to do is clean it and the gun will be just as good durability wise as the AK.

[Frög]

1st, the AK is just as accurate up to 200yards.. So really the accuracy argument isn't valid.. And comabt is done well withing 200 yards.. 2nd you are comparing later AR versions to the AK 47, the first version.. You should be comparing it to the later AK 47 variants like the AK 74 which is more accurate..

LOL the AR is NEVER and will never be as reliable as an AK no matter what.. Clean it? Well the mere fact that you have to clean it every time you shoot a bullet makes it inferior and a bad design.. An assault rifle used in war shouldn't be something you baby and clean all the time.. It should be something you throw around, drop in the sand, never clean, but will ALWAYS shoot no matter what..

If we had a foward assist on the M16A1 for the first half of the conflict, the gun would have been alot more deadly too. But I do agree with you, the AK is definatley more durable gun. But Id still take a AR over an AK any day just because of the accuracy, and you can carry more ammo, all you have to do is clean it and the gun will be just as good durability wise as the AK.

[Frög]

the ar platform has changed alot since vietnam, its a whole new weapon in terms of reliability compared to back then.

The AK 47 was made in 47, and we are comparing it to the latest model AR's? We should be comparing it to later AK variants then..

[_Christian_]

Not necessarly true, when the 5.56 penetrates its target it tumbles and shatters leaving the target with a shit load of lead throughout the point of impact and around it. So dont completely bag on the 5.56 saying that its small and wouldnt do anything, thats the mistake that the vietcong made in the Vietnam conflict when the M16 A1 first came out, and they obvioulsy thought wrong. So essencially the 5.56 is tearing shit up, and the 7.62 is knocking shit down and punching a decent sized hole in its target.

You can get the 5.56 in the ak100 series. The even smaller 5.45 round found in the ak-74 tumbles as well.

The AK 47 was made in 47, and we are comparing it to the latest model AR's? We should be comparing it to later AK variants then..

x2 on that.

[Danny]

1st, the AK is just as accurate up to 200yards.. So really the accuracy argument isn't valid.. And combat is done well withing 200 yards..

Marines and soldiers can and do engage at ranges around and over 200m. Marines somewhat prefer this and it shows, just look at how the equip their typical squad (lots of full length M16s). And accuracy has way more to it than the where the first shot lands, follow up shots are just as important (if not more important) and the m16/m4 has the upper hand here. Giving it the upper hand in both CQB and medium range.

I am not saying the ak cant hit the broad side of a barn, but for you to say accuracy makes no difference in the argument is pure bs.

And for the varient argument, i wasnt saying the ak hasnt changed over the years. But a typical ak fanboy argues using the veitnam war as support, and suggests or flat out lies about those problems not being addressed.

[SiRed94]

I own both. Personally I like the AK better. They are both equally accurate at sub-200 yard shots. Anything more than that, I'm going to be using my hunting rifles anyways. I have never had my AK jam once, even when I am shooting the shit out of it. My AK looks just as cool as my AR. AK variants are way cheaper than AR's and I can find parts for them cheaper than the AR. Stock for stock, I like the lighter weight of the AR, especially if I were going to be lugging it around all day. But both have their pros and both are great guns overall.

[eraser4g63]

Sorry to do this but im gonna come in from left field here with he M14 or the Mini14
M14=

Mini14=

Sorry just personal preference. Though if i had to pick between the two i would go AR.

[green91]

For accuracy ill buy a walther wa2000

[Truegiant]

Sorry to do this but im gonna come in from left field here with he M14 or the Mini14
M14=

Mini14=

Sorry just personal preference. Though if i had to pick between the two i would go AR.

i just sold one of these. there def. bad!

[Frög]

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE POSTING ANYTHING OTHER THAN AK's AND AR's?


SHOULD I POST A PIC OF A FAMAS? Fuck this is a AK vs. AR thread, is this topic/concept really too complicated?

[Truegiant]

I guess its as complicated as you being french. Anywho.. more ar porn is on the way.

[81911SC]

Eraser, get that gay shit out of here.

[VTECking]

1st, the AK is just as accurate up to 200yards.. So really the accuracy argument isn't valid.. And comabt is done well withing 200 yards.. 2nd you are comparing later AR versions to the AK 47, the first version.. You should be comparing it to the later AK 47 variants like the AK 74 which is more accurate..

LOL the AR is NEVER and will never be as reliable as an AK no matter what.. Clean it? Well the mere fact that you have to clean it every time you shoot a bullet makes it inferior and a bad design.. An assault rifle used in war shouldn't be something you baby and clean all the time.. It should be something you throw around, drop in the sand, never clean, but will ALWAYS shoot no matter what..

Okay, actually we can compare the AK-47 with the best varients of the AR's because the AK has pretty much not changed since '47, but the latest and greatest AR's are still AR's, they have just evolved from its more primitive state. But you cant compare the AK-74 with the AR in this debate because the AK-74 is a completely different rifle than the AK-47, the AK-74 shoots a round thats even smaller than the 5.56, it shoots a 5.45. Sure the AK-74 vs. the AR would be a better debate than the AK-47 vs AR "because of accuracy and round similarities of the AK-74 and AR", but this gun is still not the AK-47 even though its similar to it. That would be like me bringing up a HK-416 vs the AK, sure the 416 is similar to the AR, but it's also completely different. Heres a vid of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpZryZEiY4

[koukis14]

Sig 556

[Frög]

I guess its as complicated as you being french. Anywho.. more ar porn is on the way.

Wow, good one.. I mean really? Not so bright I see..

[Frög]

Okay, actually we can compare the AK-47 with the best varients of the AR's because the AK has pretty much not changed since '47, but the latest and greatest AR's are still AR's, they have just evolved from its more primitive state. But you cant compare the AK-74 with the AR in this debate because the AK-74 is a completely different rifle than the AK-47, the AK-74 shoots a round thats even smaller than the 5.56, it shoots a 5.45. Sure the AK-74 vs. the AR would be a better debate than the AK-47 vs AR "because of accuracy and round similarities of the AK-74 and AR", but this gun is still not the AK-47 even though its similar to it. That would be like me bringing up a HK-416 vs the AK, sure the 416 is similar to the AR, but it's also completely different. Heres a vid of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpZryZEiY4

Same can be said otherwise! AK has evolved from its primitive state..

The AR was improved where it needed to.. It didn't need or couldn't really change the round..

The AK had nothing to fix except their slight accuracy.. To improve this, (and improvement, just like the AR's) they went with a smaller round.. Still the same gun..

AR still today has major reliability issues especially in deserts.. The gun has to be cleaned, can't touch sand, can't get a grain of sand anywhere near the rifle..

The AK is dropped in sand and never cleaned.. Yet, it will shoot, every time.. A luxury AR owner cannot share..

The AK-47 should be compared to early version AR's.. AK-74 to later versions.. Of course, AR fan boys will disagree because the AK is better in both comparisons.. Saying that you can't compare them is preposterous..

AK-47 = AK
Ak-74 = AK

[Truegiant]

Wow, good one.. I mean really? Not so bright I see..

Ouch.. Someone isnt feeling the sarcasm I take it. Stupid, huh. I guess a Civil Engineering degree from Georgia Tech is stupid. Hmm.. Not sure I see your point nor do I care. I am glad that you feel it necessary to degrade people over the internet. Anywho.. You wanted more ar porn.. here it is.

[Truegiant]

Same can be said otherwise! AR still today has major reliability issues especially in deserts.. The gun has to be cleaned, can't touch sand, can't get a grain of sand anywhere near the rifle..

Do you have any first hand experience with this? I do. ALOT! I never had a problem with the m4 platform during my entire deployment.

[BB4_to_DC2]

Same can be said otherwise! AK has evolved from its primitive state..

The AR was improved where it needed to.. It didn't need or couldn't really change the round..

The AK had nothing to fix except their slight accuracy.. To improve this, (and improvement, just like the AR's) they went with a smaller round.. Still the same gun..

AR still today has major reliability issues especially in deserts.. The gun has to be cleaned, can't touch sand, can't get a grain of sand anywhere near the rifle..

The AK is dropped in sand and never cleaned.. Yet, it will shoot, every time.. A luxury AR owner cannot share..

The AK-47 should be compared to early version AR's.. AK-74 to later versions.. Of course, AR fan boys will disagree because the AK is better in both comparisons.. Saying that you can't compare them is preposterous..

AK-47 = AK
Ak-74 = AK

The AR is by Far the better over all weapon i have both so i am not a fan boy of the black rifle or the AK but if you compare the early ARs to the Ak you might be surprised. the early models were given to us military advisers in Vietnam (Green Berets) the loved them they and they told the military the top brass thought that the 223 was to small but a lot of lobbing got them to get the ar a test run but the brass was not done the fucked the rifle all up when they issiued it to our troops saying it never had to to be cleaned bull shit every gun has to be cleaned even your ak
also the tolerance to sand is not as bad FROG says i served in Iraq and i can say i hardly had a problem with dust and sand yes the ak is very great for reliability but the accurcy sucks the only poeple i have meat that can shoot the rifle good are Special Forces Operators but that comes from years of training and E36_ACE is right about 47/74 they are completly different. AK stands for Avtomat Kalashnikova thats it bumb ass they are to different weapons so i can say the AR 6.8 piston drivin system is the the same as the AR15 because it is an AR and any way Frog how do you know any thing about AR/AK your French the only thing you guys are good for is surrendering and wiping the UNs ASS

[SiRed94]

Fuck this debate, no matter what the outcome, I win because I own both. MUAHAHAHA

[Truegiant]

Fuck this debate, no matter what the outcome, I win because I own both. MUAHAHAHA

I concur.. Its another debate where one person feels there opinion is superior and everyone else is wrong. Anywho.. I am just in this thread for the gun porn.

[Frög]

Ouch.. Someone isnt feeling the sarcasm I take it. Stupid, huh. I guess a Civil Engineering degree from Georgia Tech is stupid. Hmm.. Not sure I see your point nor do I care. I am glad that you feel it necessary to degrade people over the internet. Anywho.. You wanted more ar porn.. here it is.

Then you should know that what you say is a direct indaction of how people percieve you.. And you tell me this, how smart do you think this comment makes you look:

I guess its as complicated as you being french. Anywho.. more ar porn is on the way.

If you can't figure out with your GT degree that this is a dumb comment, and an extremely dumb/weak response to my post, regardless how smart you are, you must be slow after all.. Do I feel it necessary to degrade people over the internet? No, just keep your ignorant comments out.. Sarcasm not found..

I mean, I was right.. The guy posts pics of a m-14 in an AR vs. AK thread..

[Frög]

The AR is by Far the better over all weapon i have both so i am not a fan boy of the black rifle or the AK but if you compare the early ARs to the Ak you might be surprised. the early models were given to us military advisers in Vietnam (Green Berets) the loved them they and they told the military the top brass thought that the 223 was to small but a lot of lobbing got them to get the ar a test run but the brass was not done the fucked the rifle all up when they issiued it to our troops saying it never had to to be cleaned bull shit every gun has to be cleaned even your ak
also the tolerance to sand is not as bad FROG says i served in Iraq and i can say i hardly had a problem with dust and sand yes the ak is very great for reliability but the accurcy sucks the only poeple i have meat that can shoot the rifle good are Special Forces Operators but that comes from years of training and E36_ACE is right about 47/74 they are completly different. AK stands for Avtomat Kalashnikova thats it bumb ass they are to different weapons so i can say the AR 6.8 piston drivin system is the the same as the AR15 because it is an AR

PUBLIC EDUCATION = FAIL..

You claim to be American and can't even write a full sentence.. Just for example, you can't tell the difference between "meet" and "meat".. You are an idiot.. Seriously, reading this gives me a headache..

and any way Frog how do you know any thing about AR/AK your French the only thing you guys are good for is surrendering and wiping the UNs ASS

LOL we will see how good you do in this war buddy.. Maybe it would of been a better idea to follow the French's advice here about Iraq don't you think cowboy?

[Truegiant]

PUBLIC EDUCTION = FAIL..

You claim to be American and can't even write a full sentence.. Just for example, you can't tell the difference between "meet" and "meat".. You are an idiot.. Seriously, reading this gives me a headache..



LOL we will see how good you do in this war buddy.. Maybe it would of been a better idea to follow the French's advice here about Iraq don't you think cowboy?

I think its public education.. but I am slow remember.

I am pretty sure your sentence should be as follows:

You claim to be an American but you cannot even write a full sentence.

[Truegiant]

Anywho.. Enough of the BS.. Lets keep this on point!!

[Frög]

I think its public education.. but I am slow remember.

I am pretty sure your sentence should be as follows:

You claim to be an American but you cannot even write a full sentence.

That was not directed to you.. Was it? It was to BB4_to_DC2..

BTW if you correct me, please do so correctly.. You can use either, "but" is better, but "and" isn't grammatically wrong..

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm

Anywho.. Enough of the BS.. Lets keep this on point!!

Just like I have been saying..

[Truegiant]

That was not directed to you.. Was it? It was to BB4_to_DC2..

BTW if you correct me, please do so correctly.. You can use either, "but" is better, but "and" isn't grammatically wrong..

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm



Just like I have been saying..

PM inbound.. thread on track!

Couple of my photos from my playtime in the sandbox.
I am trying to find my sniper/counter sniper photos!

[Frög]

PM inbound.. thread on track!

Couple of my photos from my playtime in the sandbox.
I am trying to find my sniper/counter sniper photos!

BTW, thank you for the AR porn.. Because I do love AR's, I just happen to like AK's a tad more..

[Danny]

more sandbox photos ASAP!!!!

[Truegiant]

most of them are on my other laptop and external. i have to be up at 0430 and i will do it when i get off tomorrow.

[Danny]

dam thats early. hit the rack dude.

[Truegiant]

I just got out of the shower. 0430 isnt early. Its when the alarm goes off everyday for me.

[Danny]

well if your used to it, thats a different story. Me, im not so used to it lol.

when we gonna do some training?

[twinj]

AK more reliable. Those things are like rocks

Exactly. AR's are delicate compared to to AK's.

[Frög]

Exactly. AR's are delicate compared to to AK's.

Which would be a favorable characteristic in a woman.. Not an assault rifle..