It's a question that all of you that know me know bothers me.
I'm curious about it.
What exactly is it that convinces you there is no God?
Athiest friends speak up. I'd like to know what the thought process is behind being an Athiest.
Why don't you believe in God?
It's a question that all of you that know me know bothers me.
I'm curious about it.
What exactly is it that convinces you there is no God?
Athiest friends speak up. I'd like to know what the thought process is behind being an Athiest.
i feel the bible has led me away from ever believing in a god. everything i have read in the bible seems to be very untrue to me. also its the way the church is set up, but thats just me. dont think that i HATE religion cause i dont but i hate people who will judge me for doing what i please, i dont judge them so they shouldnt judge me.
i just believe more in science. its nothing personal against religious people, just do what makes you happy!
Val for President
Give examples.Originally Posted by Hulud
Too many of you are clumping your dislike of "religion" based on a bad experience AT some church. Some of the most spiritual people don't preach from a pulpit in billion dollar churches. Some do. Where they preach is not as important as WHAT they preach. Too many people think that because they went to a fire and brimstone church or a pass the offering plate 3X church THAT is EVERYTHING "religion" stands for and that is simply not true.also its the way the church is set up, but thats just me. dont think that i HATE religion cause i dont but i hate people who will judge me for doing what i please, i dont judge them so they shouldnt judge me.
I could give 100 examples of how good churches help their communities and even internationally w/o resorting to extortion or scare tactics. Would that matter? Probably not, because some of you guys have your mind made up that ALL churches and ALL religion is what you see on TV. That is far from the truth.
Jaime, to tell the truth, I'm one of those people. Church people to be more exact.
I don't know that I don't beleive. I just have lots of questions that I will never get answers for as to the way He works. Later, QD.
FOR MORE INFO, CLICK THE PIC!!!
it was written by humans, the fact that they make ot humans to be supreme, noah and the ark, the bible basically 'scares' (not the best word) people into doing good (which doesnt work from what i can see out of most christians), makes people not live their lives to the fullest, the whole god always forgives thing, i could go on for hours, but ill stop there for now
Val for President
By all means, go on.. this is after all, the Religion room and religious discussions....
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
Name 1 book that WASN'T.......
the fact that they make ot humans to be supreme,
In my bible, GOD is supreme. Maybe YOU should try and READ the bible before you start a critique about it, huh????
Because we all know that non-Christians are sooooo perfect and do nothing wrong, huh????noah and the ark, the bible basically 'scares' (not the best word) people into doing good (which doesnt work from what i can see out of most christians)
People want things handed to them w/o any work. Work is not easy by definition or it wouldn't be work at all. You call it being "scared", I call it telling it like it is.
Name one real example of where a Christian DIDN'T "live" their life to the "fullest" simply BECAUSE they were Christian.makes people not live their lives to the fullest
You keep just saying things that are so general and mundane to try and prove something, but you don't give a single example of how it applies.
He does. What's the point?the whole god always forgives thing
i know but people believe in this book like the ones who wrote it would never exaggerate the truth to look better just how i feelName 1 book that WASN'T.......
yes god is supreme but it makes humans out to be better than anyother living organism on this planet. and the fact that animals serve humans? there only existance is to feed us, now thats a little farfetched for me to believeIn my bible, GOD is supreme. Maybe YOU should try and READ the bible before you start a critique about it, huh????
when did i say that?Because we all know that non-Christians are sooooo perfect and do nothing wrong, huh????
who said anything about handouts?People want things handed to them w/o any work. Work is not easy by definition or it wouldn't be work at all. You call it being "scared", I call it telling it like it is.
that most christians i have encountered act like they can do what they please and then worry about it later and repent for it, just seems kinds like a HUGE loop hole to meHe does. What's the point?
Val for President
i believe in somthing just not this "god" people speak of. and there is no real reason, other than i spent a large amount of time reseachng religion in general and come to some conclushions that point me in another direction. i am ANTI CHURCH, not anti religion (but i think religion should be somthing someone has themselves not at/with chuch) and i understand that some NEED to belive in stuff (ie. god or the general good of other people) i just dont see it.
i consider my self to be agnostic (basicly i believe in something but with out proof i am not willing to label it as anything, b/c i dont know; but on the other hand i dont truly care)
my opinion nothing more
I respect that, but like I said in the other thread that's like trying to put out a fire using gasoline. It just won't work.
Just like Paul said, our minds can't LOGICALLY comprehend and omnipotent God naturally. So unless you try and comprehend it in other ways, it will never make "sense" to you.
I still respect that though.
b/c the human mind can't comprehend GOD, and the true question is who is GOD? To many this question is completely answered different. I personally don't need to live my life in fear of the future, i will embrace death or the afterlife as it may come to me.
in all respect to your beliefs.... Hell is not something you can just embrace.... and i'm not stating that you're going to hell. but from what i've gathered from you you're a non believer, and to me a non believer goes to hell.... But that's for God to decide.
Great post, but i don't believe in YOUR HELL OR YOUR GOD for that matter,so i will embrace what is brought before me(no disrespect meant)
I understand, but just because you don't believe doesn't mean it doesn't exist.... and now your going to say... "just because u do believe doesn't mean it does exist". lol... either way we could both be wrong but my point is no matter what the circumstances really are... not believing doesn't exclude anyone from anything....Great post, but i don't believe in YOUR HELL OR YOUR GOD for that matter,so i will embrace what is brought before me
now back on topic.....
I honestly have had my doubts because it just seems so far fetched... So i know what kinds of thoughts those that don't believe have, but this world is WAY too organized for it not to have been planned out.
I look at it this way, if i'm right and your wrong then you have been idolizing a false god, and your would come crashing down on you. If you right and i'm wrong then i am willing to deal w/ the future, but i don't fear it b/c if your GOD is real then he has predetermined my future for me and he already knows the out come.
Question though: Do you really think that things are earned or just given?
sorry???
I beleive there is some kind of God Up there. =) so im going to heaven..not hell.
That's good, but not good enough for what you're hoping for. You don't get to Heaven thru good deeds alone, so just believing there's "some kind" of God isn't going to be good enough either.
the devil and all his demons believe that God exsists too
'I beleive there is a God and a devil. I know right now i'm not exactly in the right position to say that I am a true believer but I believe that one day, everyone will see the truth. I think it just scares people because we are so used to seeing everything with our eyes than with our faith. "walk by faith, not by sight."
I don't know what to believe. I think that's why I'm a little afraid to die...that's what Dan says anyways. I just feel like...if God wants us to believe in him and he created us, why did he give us the mind that he did? The mind to make choices? Why am I the type of person that has to know things from the beginning to the end to believe? Why am I the type of person who hasn't been "struck" by God or "seen the light" like some people say? If he created me and he loves me and knows me, why doesn't he show himself to me because that's what he knows I need? Why haven't I been struck or seen the light? People who say those types of things seem to have had a very serious experience that they just couldn't deny. That hasn't happened to me. Some people say you just have to have faith. Well you know, I have had faith in a lot of things in my life....and a lot of those times I was let down. Faith just doesn't get it for me.
I also wonder how did the virgin mary have a baby and why doesn't god have more babies like that now? OR How did Jesus rise from the dead and why has no one else done this? Did the people who crucified Jesus go to hell? How did Moses split the Red Sea just because he felt like it? What about the story of Daniel? Just because he believed in God, he lived after being thrown into a lions den. That was the only reason??? Maybe the lions had just eaten and they weren't hungry. There are tons of people who believe in God and that doesn't save them from death. What about all of the people who died because of the storm? Do you really think that not one of those people had a true faith in God...I guess "it was just their time to go". That sounds like a cop out to me. How did the 3 wise men just know that there was a baby that they should give gifts to and worship? Did someone call them on the telephone??
I'm not trying to be smart. These are just the types of things I think about.
God doesn't want robots. He wants us to have enough faith so we choose Him in our own free will. I know this has been played out, but I thought I would mention it.
And BTW your not the only one who has to see things to believe them.
I hear ya. I already mentioned the faith thing. That's what everyone says when I ask. I mean, I have faith that my brother will get off drugs someday..have for years. When should I expect this to happen if it's all about having faith. We are working on 16 years of faith in this circumstance. See what I mean? How long do you have to have faith before you feel something or before something happens??? Let me guess...I am being taught a lesson.
Well of coarse there is a "sunday school" slogan for all of life's problems. "Because Jesus' wants it to be." "Because it is in God's timing." The list goes on and on. The key is not always have an simple answer for every problem.
As far as your brother, all you can do is offer help. If you meet someone on the street and want him to raise his hands above their head, you could dance, sing, beg, pleed, cry, bribe, or do anything you can think of, but unless they want to do it, they won't. You can make anyone do anything they don't want to do.
I know. You are doing exactly what every person does when I ask about religion. I have been there for my brother and I know that he has to want to want it. The point is not really about my brother, it's about faith. I hjave faith that he will "want to" get off drugs. How long should I keep this faith if in 16 years my faith has done nothing obviously. I believe there is some type of God. I have faith in that. How long do I have to wait before I am struck by him? Before I feel as strongly about it as some people do? Before I don't just feel like the Bible is a good novel written many years ago?
John 3:12
Romans 10:14
I also wonder how did the virgin mary have a baby and why doesn't god have more babies like that now?
Luke 1:28-28
She was chosen. Just like any other miracle, if it happens all the time people will dismiss it as normal.
God rose Jesus from the dead to prove to non-believers that he could, and therefore prove the possibility of live after death.How did Jesus rise from the dead and why has no one else done this?
Peter 1:3
Not sure, but Jesus did ask for their forgiveness "for they not know what they are doing".Did the people who crucified Jesus go to hell?
It wasn't because he just felt like it. He did it to escape from the Egyptians who were sent to kill him and the Israelites slaves he'd led out of Egypt.How did Moses split the Red Sea just because he felt like it?
He parted the Red Sea, crossed safely, and then when the Egyptians tried, the Sea drowned them.
Exodus 14:16- God tells him HOW to do it.
Exodus 14:17-18- God tells WHY to do it.
Exodus 14:21- Moses DID it.
Exodus 14:22- Israelites crossed.
Exodus 14:27- Moses closes the Sea back again.
Exodus 14:28- Pursuing Egyptians perish.
What about the story of Daniel? Just because he believed in God, he lived after being thrown into a lions den. That was the only reason??? Maybe the lions had just eaten and they weren't hungry. There are tons of people who believe in God and that doesn't save them from death.
Yes, that's it in a nutshell.
Daniel questioned the King's decree that anyone that asked anything from any god, other than him, would be thrown in with the lions. For doing so, the King tried to make an example out of him and told him that his "God" would save him if he were real (Daniel 6:12). He was then thrown in and a boulder blocked his escaping back out (Daniel 6:17). The King woke up the next morning only to find that Daniel was just fine (Daniel 6:20). He then "believed" in the power of Daniel's "God" and as punishment he threw in Daniel's accusers whom were quickly eaten by the lions (Daniel 6:24).
Death, although inevitable, is difficult to understand and as has been said before, we don't have a clue as to what God has planned for us other than he just has plans.What about all of the people who died because of the storm? Do you really think that not one of those people had a true faith in God...I guess "it was just their time to go". That sounds like a cop out to me.
Matthew 2.How did the 3 wise men just know that there was a baby that they should give gifts to and worship? Did someone call them on the telephone??
The wise men came from the East looking for "the new king of the jews" that was just born in accordance to prophecy. The King found out about this and tried to scheme to kill Jesus (Matthew 2:8). The 3 wise men left, following the star (per the prophecy), until they found Jesus in the manger (Matthew 2:9). They had a dream that they should not return to their land via Herod, so they left and went back another way. King Herod got really mad when the wise men tricked him back (remember, he was trying to trick them into telling him where Jesus was) and so started killing all the first born boys born around the approximate age of what Jesus would be (Matthew 2:16).
No offense taken. Valid questions. I hope any of those answers helped.I'm not trying to be smart. These are just the types of things I think about.
Last edited by Jaimecbr900; 09-01-2005 at 03:15 PM.
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So I read all of this and all you did was refer me back to what I was asking. It's like a big circle.
Moses parted the red sea...can I go part the red sea if I believe in God? Can you part any sea cuz you have faith???
Has anyone else had a miracle virgin conception since Mary???
I know the bible says why Jesus rose from the dead, but has anyone else been able to rise from the dead in modern times?
You can't just refer me back to the bible when I'm asking questions about the bible and what it says. I already know what it says and it still doesn't make sense.
That's like me asking you to help me with a calculus problem and you referrring me back to the same equation. Dan does that all the time with calc. He's like...it's right there. Can't you see it??!!! With no explanation.
John 3:12 says "If I have told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things?"
Romans 10:14 says "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?"
In other words, I felt that was addressing your question. You were wondering how someone is to "believe". I chose those two passages because to me they are saying "doubters will always doubt, until someone teaches them any different". I'm not smart enough to teach anything about the Bible, but to me those passages are saying that in order to truly understand God, you have to study it. Follow?
You have to read the full story. Moses didn't part the Red Sea just because he was faithful. He parted the Red Sea as a direct order from God in order to escape persecution. I suppose if you God chose you to lead slaves out of Egypt, he'd give you whatever powers you'd need to do that too.Moses parted the red sea...can I go part the red sea if I believe in God? Can you part any sea cuz you have faith???
There's only ONE Jesus, so why would there be a need for another one?Has anyone else had a miracle virgin conception since Mary???
Same answer as above. There is only ONE Jesus. If there were many, there would be no way to tell the real from the fake.I know the bible says why Jesus rose from the dead, but has anyone else been able to rise from the dead in modern times?
I quoted things from the bible because to me they explain some of the questions you have. I was hoping they'd do the same for you. Unfortunately, I'm no Bible scholar so I don't have the tools to explain any further than that. Maybe you should ask a priest or preacher and see if they give you an answer that makes sense to you.You can't just refer me back to the bible when I'm asking questions about the bible and what it says. I already know what it says and it still doesn't make sense.
Dan's smarter than you and I, so I can't help you there.That's like me asking you to help me with a calculus problem and you referrring me back to the same equation. Dan does that all the time with calc. He's like...it's right there. Can't you see it??!!! With no explanation.
I hear ya on some of this stuff. I have talked to preachers and priests and they basically do the same thing. Explain things by pointing you right back to the Bible.John 3:12 says "If I have told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things?"
Romans 10:14 says "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?"
In other words, I felt that was addressing your question. You were wondering how someone is to "believe". I chose those two passages because to me they are saying "doubters will always doubt, until someone teaches them any different". I'm not smart enough to teach anything about the Bible, but to me those passages are saying that in order to truly understand God, you have to study it. Follow?
You have to read the full story. Moses didn't part the Red Sea just because he was faithful. He parted the Red Sea as a direct order from God in order to escape persecution. I suppose if you God chose you to lead slaves out of Egypt, he'd give you whatever powers you'd need to do that too.
There's only ONE Jesus, so why would there be a need for another one?
Same answer as above. There is only ONE Jesus. If there were many, there would be no way to tell the real from the fake.
I quoted things from the bible because to me they explain some of the questions you have. I was hoping they'd do the same for you. Unfortunately, I'm no Bible scholar so I don't have the tools to explain any further than that. Maybe you should ask a priest or preacher and see if they give you an answer that makes sense to you.
Dan's smarter than you and I, so I can't help you there.
I know there is only 1 Jesus. Why can't we have another if he was such a good thing??? It's been long enough and we have a lot of problems that maybe another Jesus could help us with by dying.
I did read the story about Moses. So is it like rhetorical or for real....because who has powers like parting the sea? Only Moses or people from his generation aparently.
Johns and Romans can tell us all they want about earthly things...but we are not using their language anymore. Who's to say that whoever had to rewrite the bible didn't interperate things the way he thought it should be said? Not all words or sentences, for that matter, translate directly so that means someone has to interpret it. Why can't Jaime testify to any of these types of things happening? Because you've never seen it, right? You just read the Bible and hope that it's true. You've never experienced it for yourself and I don't mean the feeling of having God in your life. I mean a for real, seen it with your own eyes experience. It's like reading the internet, just because you read it and someone says it's true doesn't mean it is. Now if you see a video potsed then all of a sudden you can fathom it.
Story:
A woman at the age of 21 has a baby girl. She goes in shortly afterwards to have her tubes tied and removed. Four years later, she decides that she wants to have a baby boy. She talks to a doctor (no surgery) and the doctors said, there is no use, there is nothing we can do, go adopt. She prays diligently for months. Nothing happens. She keeps praying for the impossible. Everyone told her she was wasting her time. She got pregnant again at the age of 26. Doctors said the baby would never live, and to have an abortion. She said there was no way, she prayed to hard for him. The baby boy was born and lived. The doctors said the tubes must of regrown or somehow pressed together. They go in to do surgery, and yet no tubes. The doctors said there has never been an account recorded of this where the baby lives and is not a vegetable with the tubes apart for that long. The woman laughs and says, I think God can handle it.
That woman was my mother, and the baby was me.
So you see miracles do happen, just not as visual and well known like they do in the Bible. Awesome thread guys, I can't wait to finish reading the whole thing.
Just to add to this:
An 8 month old baby was found to have two cancerous tumors. One tumor was on the base of the spine(size of a golf ball) and the other was on her brain (size of a half dollar). Now keep in mind that an 8 month old baby cannot take any kind of treatments or be operated on to remove any of tumor. My whole church brought the baby to the front and we came foward and prayed over the baby. At last report the tumor on the spine had completely disappeared and the one on the brain has shrunk down to the size of a pea. The doctors are baffled by this.
A woman was diagnosed with breast cancer and came before the church to be prayed over. She went in the following week (before any treatment was started but the size and location was noted) to have a biopsy done. The cancer had shrunk to the point they had to look to find it. Once they found it, it was so small they had a hard time getting a sample for the biopsy. Once the doctors were able to get the sample and put it under the microscope, it disintergrated in front of their eyes. They examined her again and there were no signs of cancer.
Both of these examples show what God is capable of and I truly believe in him. And yes this is coming from the ex-Porn King
there is no such thing as a concrete religion because everyone believes what they want to believe.
here's a much better question for you. is there a right and wrong way to live your life when it comes to religion? is it wrong to be a muslim, or a buddhist, or practice some other backwoods african tribe's religion? after all, they may believe in something, but it's not YOUR god.
Just out of curiousity, how many times has the bible been re-written since its inception? As for the amount of times it has been re-written who is to say that after so many years someone along the lines wrote it to fit what they wanted versus what god wanted? I know that religion is based on faith and the beleif that it is exactly what it (the bible) says it is, but damn thats a whole lot of faith into one person who has no "proof" of anything. I guess I just seem to rely on more science than belief. As much as I was raised in a very heavy Southern Methodist background, I just have my own reservations about a lot of questions no one has been able to answer for me. All I have ever been able to get for an answer from anyone is that I just have to believe its the truth. Thats just too hard to swallow.
The XUV !!!
You are a bit too late to the party. This has been discussed already. It was not "re-written" as you put together but more like "translated" and put together. A lot of history books are also "rewritten" Who knows? Maybe Castro is really a good person, but is portrayed as "bad" for propaganda against communism? (Disclaimer: This is just an example and does not state that I believe Castro is a good person LOL)
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
nice post.. wasn't even thinking along those lines
about Hell???
Basically everything that has been discussed here. I knwo you havent told all of your thoughts and feelings on the questions and statements previously stated. Come on with it..
Everytime I think of about time not having a beginning or an end, my brain hurts. It's like I can think of a long long time from now, but I know is not even the start of it. I mean, I can say it all I want, but thinking about it is totally different. Just goes to show you how short life is.
Only thing I have to say about hell is that in revelation it talks about there being two hells. "Hades" is the present hell, and "Gehenna" which hell will be also known as the "Lake for Fire". It has been awhile, but I do remember something about a person dies twice, the second time gets cast in the lake of hell that only God has the keys, if your name isn't written in the book of life.
Time for me to go to some reading, it's been awhile for revelation.
"better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven"
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