Marijuana decriminalization bill gaining support in Congress

[BanginJimmy]

I guess I found all of the pot heads.

All of those gangs were making money selling illegal booze. No parrallels there, right?

Make them legal and there's no problem.

You forget that people are still smuggling cigs into the US. People are still smuggling and producing illegal alcohol and the ATF spends ALOT of money chasing them down. Like I said, this will simply become another black market industry.

This is just ignorant. You can, in no way, compair crack to pot. If you do, then you need to do some more research on the matter.

Actually I wasnt comparing the 2 at all. If you read the quote I was replying to you would understand that. My point was that just because something is readily available doesnt mean that it should be legal.

You really think the war on Drugs will be just as expensive with Marijuana possession excluded?

Actually I think it would be more expensive. The costs of regulating this industry would far outweigh the small amount brought in by taxes. The fact that there would no longer be any fear of arrest for being caught with it, I think it would increase usage and therefore it would increase demand for the illegal product sold at half the price.

[Lucky DAWG]

I guess I found all of the pot heads.



You forget that people are still smuggling cigs into the US. People are still smuggling and producing illegal alcohol and the ATF spends ALOT of money chasing them down. Like I said, this will simply become another black market industry.




Actually I wasnt comparing the 2 at all. If you read the quote I was replying to you would understand that. My point was that just because something is readily available doesnt mean that it should be legal.



Actually I think it would be more expensive. The costs of regulating this industry would far outweigh the small amount brought in by taxes. The fact that there would no longer be any fear of arrest for being caught with it, I think it would increase usage and therefore it would increase demand for the illegal product sold at half the price.

I don't understand you here Bangin Jimmy, usually i agree with you. I thought you were a through and through republican. We don't need the government upsizing itself to wage war on petty things and flood the jails.


I want my money to stay in my pocket, not supporting this kind of stuff.



I agree that we should be spending money on limiting the power of cartels bringing it into the country and therefore putting our money in the pockets of "bad people" in other countries. But its simply a changing of hands here usually for small quantities that is for personal use.



Why do i have to babysit someone who wants to throw their life away with a meth lab in their basement? Its called evolution, let them kill themselves off if they choose to live their life that way.



Drug usage is lower in the Netherlands and it is legal for "soft" drugs like marijuana and i think a few opiates, cocaine and the such are still illegal to my knowledge but still used less. I know a lot on this topic i had to write my college english paper on it.





Its petty and dumb, the government doesn't need to be any larger. By taxing this stuff if the same growers of medical marijuana would feed it into the market of consumers then that money would increase our tax revenue and lower tax burdens on the general population.




The drug war hurts both sides, sometimes you have to choose the battles you can win and this is not one of them. As long as drugs exist there will be a desire for them by certain groups of people.



Most if not ALL of the criminal activity due to drugs does not occur because of the effects of the drugs... it happens because the sales are criminalized and you can not call the police if someone steals your merchandise. So drug dealers take it to the streets and resort to drug wars for faster and bigger "get rich fast, live in the fast lane" lifestyles. Leaving hundreds of innocents dead with stray gunfire.




Its dumb and if you can't see this then you are living in a fantasy world.

[alpine_aw11]

I don't understand you here Bangin Jimmy, usually i agree with you. I thought you were a through and through republican. We don't need the government upsizing itself to wage war on petty things and flood the jails.


I want my money to stay in my pocket, not supporting this kind of stuff.



I agree that we should be spending money on limiting the power of cartels bringing it into the country and therefore putting our money in the pockets of "bad people" in other countries. But its simply a changing of hands here usually for small quantities that is for personal use.



Why do i have to babysit someone who wants to throw their life away with a meth lab in their basement? Its called evolution, let them kill themselves off if they choose to live their life that way.



Drug usage is lower in the Netherlands and it is legal for "soft" drugs like marijuana and i think a few opiates, cocaine and the such are still illegal to my knowledge but still used less. I know a lot on this topic i had to write my college english paper on it.





Its petty and dumb, the government doesn't need to be any larger. By taxing this stuff if the same growers of medical marijuana would feed it into the market of consumers then that money would increase our tax revenue and lower tax burdens on the general population.




The drug war hurts both sides, sometimes you have to choose the battles you can win and this is not one of them. As long as drugs exist there will be a desire for them by certain groups of people.



Most if not ALL of the criminal activity due to drugs does not occur because of the effects of the drugs... it happens because the sales are criminalized and you can not call the police if someone steals your merchandise. So drug dealers take it to the streets and resort to drug wars for faster and bigger "get rich fast, live in the fast lane" lifestyles. Leaving hundreds of innocents dead with stray gunfire.




Its dumb and if you can't see this then you are living in a fantasy world.

QFT. However, it seems pretty obvious to me that the government isn't fighting this pointless war on drugs due to the safety of our citizens, as it does provide quite a lot of funding for them. It just seems odd to me that after we removed the Taliban from Afghanistan that we did nothing to stop the rampant growth in heroin production, yet over here weed is a huge concern. The US government has actually helped and funded drug lords in other countries(ex.-the president of Afghanistan's brother, who is one of the largest heroin dealers in the world-at least 80% of heroin here comes from this source which we allowed to be created). This petty drug war does nothing but imprison the innocent, and has done absolutely nothing to prevent drugs from getting into our hands. I could get weed anytime I wanted to with a couple phone calls, wouldn't take more than a couple minutes. Maybe if it was actually working I could understand their motives, but the actions taken by the government have done nothing but put a tiny dent on the drug trade.

[Lucky DAWG]

QFT. However, it seems pretty obvious to me that the government isn't fighting this pointless war on drugs due to the safety of our citizens, as it does provide quite a lot of funding for them. It just seems odd to me that after we removed the Taliban from Afghanistan that we did nothing to stop the rampant growth in heroin production, yet over here weed is a huge concern. The US government has actually helped and funded drug lords in other countries(ex.-the president of Afghanistan's brother, who is one of the largest heroin dealers in the world-at least 80% of heroin here comes from this source which we allowed to be created). This petty drug war does nothing but imprison the innocent, and has done absolutely nothing to prevent drugs from getting into our hands. I could get weed anytime I wanted to with a couple phone calls, wouldn't take more than a couple minutes. Maybe if it was actually working I could understand their motives, but the actions taken by the government have done nothing but put a tiny dent on the drug trade.

exactly.


As long as their is lucrative money involved in drug trading, then people will assume the risk. I think the creativty and desperation of most people to make a lot of money quick is underestimated.


The drug dealers as a whole are usually ahead of the government. You may get a few big fish in the pond, but they will always regroup and just have someone else take the other guy's spot.



Its simple economics, by eliminating competition all they do is just make another cartel more lucrative.

[BanginJimmy]

I don't understand you here Bangin Jimmy, usually i agree with you. I thought you were a through and through republican.

not a republican at all. I am a conservative.

We don't need the government upsizing itself to wage war on petty things and flood the jails.

the DEA isnt going anywhere whether or weed is legal, but the govt would be larger if it was legalized for the regulatory bodies that would need to be set in place.

I want my money to stay in my pocket, not supporting this kind of stuff.

again, legalizing it would mean more money out of your pocket, not less.

I agree that we should be spending money on limiting the power of cartels bringing it into the country and therefore putting our money in the pockets of "bad people" in other countries. But its simply a changing of hands here usually for small quantities that is for personal use.

legalizing it would increase the power of the cartels. Not only would their product be legal, but it would also be more widely used. This would eliminate 1 more level of secrecy in the chain.

Why do i have to babysit someone who wants to throw their life away with a meth lab in their basement? Its called evolution, let them kill themselves off if they choose to live their life that way.

this is a joke right?

Drug usage is lower in the Netherlands and it is legal for "soft" drugs like marijuana and i think a few opiates, cocaine and the such are still illegal to my knowledge but still used less. I know a lot on this topic i had to write my college english paper on it.

We arent the netherlands though, the US has a tendency of taking any simple freedom and abusing it to the point that its legality should be questioned.

Its petty and dumb, the government doesn't need to be any larger. By taxing this stuff if the same growers of medical marijuana would feed it into the market of consumers then that money would increase our tax revenue and lower tax burdens on the general population.

the added costs of regulation would easily surpass the taxes added. Then add in the fact that law enforcement would have no leverage on the users so they can work up the chain to the dealers and suppliers.

Heres another one for you. A smoker is paying $4.00 for a pack of Marlboros from the gas station. One day he learns that Joe down on the corner has illegally packaged Marlboros for $2.00 a pack. Where do you think the smoker is going for his next high?

The drug war hurts both sides, sometimes you have to choose the battles you can win and this is not one of them. As long as drugs exist there will be a desire for them by certain groups of people.

I agree. I could also say the same thing for any number of illegal activities. I will bring up child porn because I just learned a bit about it on Friday. 10k+ arrests are made every year for possession of child porn. Law Enforcement knows who several of the sources are, but because they are overseas they cant be touched. Should child porn be legal also because there will always be a supply and demand for it?
Yes I know its a drastic leap from weed to child porn, but it is the same concept.

Most if not ALL of the criminal activity due to drugs does not occur because of the effects of the drugs... it happens because the sales are criminalized and you can not call the police if someone steals your merchandise.

wrong, most drug related crimes are robberies and burglaries so they addicts can get the money for their next fix. The number of people killed as retaliation is barely worth mentioning in comparison.

So drug dealers take it to the streets and resort to drug wars for faster and bigger "get rich fast, live in the fast lane" lifestyles. Leaving hundreds of innocents dead with stray gunfire.

not at all, most larger dealers keep as low a profile as possible. Its mostly the small timers that live in the last lane.

Its dumb and if you can't see this then you are living in a fantasy world.

I live in the real world, you are the one in the fantasy world.

[Lucky DAWG]

not a republican at all. I am a conservative.




the DEA isnt going anywhere whether or weed is legal, but the govt would be larger if it was legalized for the regulatory bodies that would need to be set in place.




again, legalizing it would mean more money out of your pocket, not less.





legalizing it would increase the power of the cartels. Not only would their product be legal, but it would also be more widely used. This would eliminate 1 more level of secrecy in the chain.





this is a joke right?





We arent the netherlands though, the US has a tendency of taking any simple freedom and abusing it to the point that its legality should be questioned.








the added costs of regulation would easily surpass the taxes added. Then add in the fact that law enforcement would have no leverage on the users so they can work up the chain to the dealers and suppliers.

Heres another one for you. A smoker is paying $4.00 for a pack of Marlboros from the gas station. One day he learns that Joe down on the corner has illegally packaged Marlboros for $2.00 a pack. Where do you think the smoker is going for his next high?






I agree. I could also say the same thing for any number of illegal activities. I will bring up child porn because I just learned a bit about it on Friday. 10k+ arrests are made every year for possession of child porn. Law Enforcement knows who several of the sources are, but because they are overseas they cant be touched. Should child porn be legal also because there will always be a supply and demand for it?
Yes I know its a drastic leap from weed to child porn, but it is the same concept.





wrong, most drug related crimes are robberies and burglaries so they addicts can get the money for their next fix. The number of people killed as retaliation is barely worth mentioning in comparison.




not at all, most larger dealers keep as low a profile as possible. Its mostly the small timers that live in the last lane.






I live in the real world, you are the one in the fantasy world.

Your entire argument is void considering you keep telling me it will cost MORE money. You explain to me how just another sales tax is going to cost MORE money then the hundreds of operations under way resulting in dead agents, millions in technology, millions in pay of preperation for busts and so forth.


What i got from your argument is that we should get rid of sales tax because it takes too much "regulation". And you are the one pushing Fair Tax.




Please explain to me where this logic comes from.

[The12lber]

not a republican at all. I am a conservative.

Actually, based on the kind of things you've said throughout the posts I've seen you make, you fall in line more with neo-conservative political ideology. This is viewed by political scientists to be a liberal political ideology, especially considering that its origins are with prominent disenfranchised liberals of the 70s.

[The12lber]

legalizing it would increase the power of the cartels. Not only would their product be legal, but it would also be more widely used. This would eliminate 1 more level of secrecy in the chain.

You are insufferably stupid. Do you know why illicit drugs are produced by drug cartels, roaming the jungle/desert (Afghanistan is the world's largest opium exporter, after all) in armed militias, refining their product in underground labyrinths or at remote airstrips?

BECAUSE IT IS ****ING ILLEGAL AND THEY HAVE TO MAKE IT THAT WAY.

When something becomes legal, its producers become corporations and business. When prohibition ended did the mob gain more power? No, they lost revenue. They had to rely on their racketeering and gambling/white slavery/whatever the **** else they had going on. When legitimate business can produce a product, there's no niche for the criminal underworld to produce it. NONE.

Are there violent groups of criminals, roaming Texas, setting up illicit oil derricks and refineries?

[DrivenMind]

not a republican at all. I am a conservative.

Big surprise there... You do drive a lowered American SUV after all.

the DEA isnt going anywhere whether or weed is legal, but the govt would be larger if it was legalized for the regulatory bodies that would need to be set in place.

How would it need to be larger? Law enforcement agencies across the country already have huge portions of their precincts dedicated to busting those harmlessly "crazed" marijuana smokers. It would take a lot less resources and man power to make a few regulatory laws regarding the sale and distribution of cannabis, than it would to keep trying to push prohibition, and forced prosecution on a substance that more than 50% of the countries population has tried.

again, legalizing it would mean more money out of your pocket, not less.

Wrong. It costs $19,000 annually per inmate in the US. Considering in 2006 alone, 800,000 people were arrested for "marijuana" violations that seems like a pretty quick way to save some bank. Not to mention the businesses, and industries that could be created if hemp were allowed to create some competition within the textile industry. Do you really believe that it costs the government less to hunt, and prosecute violators? You realize despite the aging war on drugs cannabis use is at an all time "high". Clearly the drug war isn't working.

Since 1992, six million tax paying Americans have been locked up for deciding to smoke a little weed. Does that number not sound outrageous to you?

legalizing it would increase the power of the cartels. Not only would their product be legal, but it would also be more widely used. This would eliminate 1 more level of secrecy in the chain.

Wrong again. He's an unlikely idea, what if it turned them into legitimate business people, who contributed more of thier profits into taxes to help fuel our economy. Just because a drug is legal doesn't mean it's any more widely abused. I wonder if the people over at Budwiser were called "cartels" during alcohol prohibition.

And could you also explain to me, where in the medical industry they require patients to ingest alcohol. Or inhale cigarette delivered nicotine.

this is a joke right?

Yea, the war on drugs has been a joke since the foul criminal Nixon introduced it in 1971.

"This scourge will stop!"
No it won't. You'll just blow a lot of our money trying to stop it.

We arent the netherlands though, the US has a tendency of taking any simple freedom and abusing it to the point that its legality should be questioned.

Did you just say that? It's not a freedom if you can get arrested for doing it. How can you abuse a freedom, that isn't a actually freedom? It's legality should be questioned because it ISN'T a freedom.

the added costs of regulation would easily surpass the taxes added. Then add in the fact that law enforcement would have no leverage on the users so they can work up the chain to the dealers and suppliers.

Law enforcement has the ultimate leverage on dealers already anyway. It's called a prison sentence. You keep saying the added costs of regulation would surpass the taxes added, as if you're deliberately ignoring the fact that there would be a reduction in costs when the government isn't spending it's time prosecuting almost a million extra non-violent "offenders".

Heres another one for you. A smoker is paying $4.00 for a pack of Marlboros from the gas station. One day he learns that Joe down on the corner has illegally packaged Marlboros for $2.00 a pack. Where do you think the smoker is going for his next high?

Depends. If the smoker knows he's going to get a reliable quality product from the gas station every time, why would he waste his time sourcing out another distributor just to save $2 a pack? Most people would pay the extra $2 just to avoid the risk of having to deal with the potential law involvement.

I agree. I could also say the same thing for any number of illegal activities. I will bring up child porn because I just learned a bit about it on Friday. 10k+ arrests are made every year for possession of child porn. Law Enforcement knows who several of the sources are, but because they are overseas they cant be touched. Should child porn be legal also because there will always be a supply and demand for it?
Yes I know its a drastic leap from weed to child porn, but it is the same concept.

No it's not, that's absolutely ****ing ridiculous.

wrong, most drug related crimes are robberies and burglaries so they addicts can get the money for their next fix. The number of people killed as retaliation is barely worth mentioning in comparison.

Source your information. This is blantant intellectual dishonesty. You're talking about junkies. Usually it's the opiate addicts that behave this way. Not pot heads. You think a "lazy, unmotivated" pot head is going to commit a burglary so he can get smoke?

I live in the real world, you are the one in the fantasy world.

This is false too. You might exist in the real world, but you're living in the conservative propoganda day dream.

[Total_Blender]

And could you also explain to me, where in the medical industry they require patients to ingest alcohol.
.

Alcohol is administered in cases of antifreeze poisoning. It is also one of the main ingredients in over the counter cough remedies. And its been proven in many studies that red wine is good for people with heart disease.

But all that is beside the main point

[The12lber]

Yea, the war on drugs has been a joke since the foul criminal Nixon introduced it in 1971.

In all fairness, overall, Nixon was in actuallity probably the best postwar (you know, the big one) President of 20th century.

Did you just say that? It's not a freedom if you can get arrested for doing it. How can you abuse a freedom, that isn't a actually freedom? It's legality should be questioned because it ISN'T a freedom.

Yeah, that's the whole deal with America. We have freedoms here, not privileges. You don't ban things simply because something is considered immoral by a select few, but it can't logically be explained why. You don't ban things because said things in question might be dangerous to them Smoking is literally sentencing yourself to premature death, I don't see a ban on tobacco. People are given the responsibility to make their own choices here. If people don't feel comfortable for this, they should look up Authoritarianism/Totalitarianism on Wikipedia and move accordingly. China and North Korea, especially, would be lovely choices

A short list of things that would have to be banned if we followed this rule (banning things that are potentially unsafe to the participant or considered immoral by some) in all cases
-Bicycles
-Motorcycles
-Cars
-Planes
-Swimming (you could drown)
-Pleasurecraft (your boat could sink, see above)
-Christianity
-Islam
-Jeudaism
-Pre-marital sex
-Homosexuality
-Buttsecks
-Fellatio
-****, everything but missionary
-Unprotected sex
-Standing up
-Fishing
-Hunting
-Eating meat (meat is murder, PETA told me so)
-Lying down

[TIGERJC]

Drug usage is lower in the Netherlands and it is legal for "soft" drugs like marijuana and i think a few opiates, cocaine and the such are still illegal to my knowledge but still used less. I know a lot on this topic i had to write my college english paper on it.

Those drugs are still illegal, but the gov't still gives those drugs out at gov't owned clinics and supplies clean needles. Also they try to counsel the users while they are there, and because they look at it as a disease and they know that this is really the only way to help them get better or least live a somewhat decent life