Obama to tear apart the country

[AirMax95]

Very interesting post with good posts throughout.

My response to the topic is simple: I want to vote for the best candidate possible. I do not feel that Obama will worsen this country, but induce change in the minds of the Americans who are afraid of change. It will be a scary at the beginning, but by the end of his term we will ALL appreciate the progress.

About his said LACK OF EXPERIENCE: Every President has lacked in some aspect of the "Perfect" President. That is what the cabinet and advisors are for. If Obama chooses a good surrounding group of individuals, he will prevail, and start this country on the road to success.

About RACE: He spoke very well, in the most positive light, to leave race out of his campaign. He was pushed into a seemingly defensive position by the media and his opponent. His last speech literally destroyed the hype. He stood up, grabbed his twig and berries, and reminded everyone that he is human. He did not back down, conform, nor avoid the topic; he spoke the truth, addressed this country's issues, and laid a plan. THAT TO ME SHOWS PRESIDENTAL QUALITIES.

Hiliary is not bad at all, but she is tainted with her husbands former role as President.

McCain is a good guy, but seems to lack something. I can't pinpoint it just yet, but I will post again when I figure it out, lol.

[ahmonrah]

though, simply due to genetics, he's of african descent..even more so than most of us that were born here( african americans who's history disappeared due to slavery), but that should not matter because obviously he's seemingly competent enough to go sweeping across the country, getting votes that even jesse jackson didnt get, back when he campaigned.

this man has serious contention for presidency, and I PERSONALLY FEEL, that makes those used to a particular face in office nervous.

on the subject of religion. once again, born into it. his biological father was african/muslim, and for whatever reason, baracks' mother(white) chose to marry an indonesian/muslim...... AND YES, later on in life, he did have a choice to choose another religion, but how many of us have strayed too far from what we were taught.....really?

for those objecting to obamas' run for prez, due to religious/racial beliefs, someone taught you to be that way...should'nt you consider rethinking that which you were taught?
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but really, what is it about this man that makes people nervous? that's the real question.

1) does the thought of military men/women answering to an african/caucasian man as commander in chief make people squirm?

if so, remember that general(ret.) colin powell was secretary of state, chairman of joint chiefs of staff and no matter who we are, civilian/military, a person of such stature commands instant respect, race irrelevant... so long as they WERE COMPETENT IN THEIR GIVEN POSITION.
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for civilians, does the thought of seeing this face potentially giving our "STATE OF THE UNION ADRESS" and being the figurehead of this current "sole remaining global superpower" called the UNITED STATES make you squirm? why?
are the reasons because of some unspoken code, or concrete and verifiable performance reasons?
what negative impact did he make, while an ILLINOIS senator that disqualifies him as potential prez?
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these are the 3 basic qualifications needed for someone to run for president:

• be a natural-born citizen of the United States
• be at least thirty-five years old
• have been resident in the United States for at least fourteen years

i've got to make a quick run.....i'll finish this thought in a few.....never mind i'll finish it now.


there are really no real reasons that i myself see, regardless of him being "black" and of muslim background, that should keep him away from what he's doing now.
what i wrote about up top was NOT to keep the stupid issue of RACE burning, but to question those that are soooo twisted up about obama running for president. but giving no concrete performance-related reasons.






and please, strike the "presidential experience" thought from debate/conversation, it makes as much sense as saying you can't die without having "death experience"........

[blackshine007]

^^ Nicely put.

I think those who can't open their minds to someone other than caucasion running for president must have some sort of racism in them. I've read good things about Bill Richardson. If he were to run for president, I'd vote for him in a heart beat. I wouldn't have voted for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton is a joke. Obama in my opinion is the best man for the right time. But like I said if Obama don't make it, I'm still voting democrat this time around.

[ahmonrah]

precisely, this country, if looked at like i see the people i encounter when walking anywhere in atlanta, is a HUGE mixing bowl of people of COUNTLESS ethnic backgrounds.

this countries goverment should properly represent that. so long as those running for CITY, STATE AND GOVERMENT positions are cognizant of the fact they:

1) are compentent for what position they want
1a) represent the people that elect them

2) will perform the duties stated for the position, with the greatest ability they posess.

3) will strive to make a POSITIVE difference, for the people they represent, are also those that suffer or benefit from the decisions made while holding an office.


....AIGHT FOLKS, I'M OUT, GOTTA ERRAND TO DO ....

[1SICKLEX]

Even if you don't like Obama, its impossible for him to split the country because...


THE COUNTRY IS ALREADY SPLIT AND HASN'T BEEN THIS DIVIDED SINCE THE CIVIL WAR.

The last 2 elections in 2000 and 2004 were basically 50/50 with votes, Bush cheating his way in basically.

Sadly, this country is very split and if anything Obama can ONLY bring us back together again.

[Evil Goat]

he's an intelligent guy, ill admit that, and he's got his skin color going for him....


but how is he going to change anything? all i hear is im for change, we're for change, change change change......but he never says how....which is sort of an important part to the equation.

[japan4racing]

The last 2 elections in 2000 and 2004 were basically 50/50 with votes, Bush cheating his way in basically.

proof of said cheating?

[1SICKLEX]

he's an intelligent guy, ill admit that, and he's got his skin color going for him....


but how is he going to change anything? all i hear is im for change, we're for change, change change change......but he never says how....which is sort of an important part to the equation.

He has his skin color going for him? He is 1/2 white and 1/2 black. So what are you talking about?

[BB6dohcvtec]

he really doesn't have to explain the change right now....only thing he has to do is differentiate himself from hillary clinton on the issues that matter. If he gets the nominee then he will have some explaining to do on his "change" campaign.

[On_Her_Face]

Strangely, I see your point. Obama is indirectly devisive because of his race.. if you put the same man in white skin then this wouldn't even be an issue but people feel the need to tread lightly when it comes to him. Its dissapointing but true, anyone who believes in Barack is lying if they don't see this.. whether he likes it or not in this campaign he forces the issue of race to come up since every criticism has to be run through the race card scanner before it can be considered legit.

With that said.. I still think he's the best option. Hillary wants to mandate healthcare and go after wages in doing so, McCain wants to stay in Iraq. I don't think Obama goes far enough on some issues but to me.. he's the best candidate.

The only reason i AGREE with McCain is because we "broke" Iraq and need to fix it, just like if you go to Macy's you break a plate on display, you pay for (fix) it.

Soooo childish "He said I got a dumb attitude, so I got to tell say it back to him"

I don't even know why I'm explaining why your attitude is dumb, but here it is. You said you wouldn't support him from the jump if he became President. For what reason? He's not the president yet, so he hasn't fail us in anyway way. I could see if he was ****ing up as president to give you a reason not to support him, but you're already writing him off before he even has a chance to prove himself. How would you like it if you went for a job interview and you get decline before you open your mouth, or before you got a chance to show you're talents. It would be BS. So I say before disowning someone as your president, let them **** up before you disown them. As, for Bush, when he became president, I had no reason to dislike, but when he started ****ing up in office thats when I started to dislike him. Unlike you, you don't even wanna give a person a chance. That's why your attitude is dumb as hell and people like you are bring down this country.

Again with the personal attacks? Real class act there! I can say he will not be my president before he even gets to office if he does things I already do not like. Obama can and might be our greatest president but nobody knows that for sure, as for now, I'm assuming the worst.

In response to your comment about getting declined before you open your mouth or show your talent's that would be known as something called the real world, it happens daily.

He has his skin color going for him? He is 1/2 white and 1/2 black. So what are you talking about?

Meaning he can and will get votes for being half white or half black, sounds stupid but some people do vote that way.

[man]

How can someone that is not for what America stands for plus having a wife that is not, and has never been "proud" of this country bring this country closer together? She said she would only be proud if America elected a black president, I don't care what color the president is along as the person stands behind America. (IMO it is just a racist for electing a black president JUST because he is black, as it is to NOT elect a black president because he is black) But anyways, I think a lot of things are going to get torn apart if Obama becomes president...

Agreed, I wouldn't unnecessarily call it racist but definitely amplified by his race and religion, and I'm talking about a lot of the white people who support him. Not saying don't vote for him, but don't do it just so you can say "I'm not racist, I voted for Obama." Seems to be what's happening.

[d993s]

If Obama becomes president, he will be shot.
He doesn't offer anything more than your average google-er can come up with.

[d993s]

......but, it goes to show how many stupid people we have in America who are willing to vote for him while ignoring the fact that he is nothing more than another black guy who gives good speeches.

[imbored]

this post is alittle too extreme don't you think? lmao!

......but, it goes to show how many stupid people we have in America who are willing to vote for him while ignoring the fact that he is nothing more than another black guy who gives good speeches.

[blackshine007]

......but, it goes to show how many stupid people we have in America who are willing to vote for him while ignoring the fact that he is nothing more than another black guy who gives good speeches.

I guess you can say the same for every other guy who made the effort to stand up for what he/she believes and try or did make an attempt to make a change for our great nation. Ok, so we had a few mess ups. We've had a few great ones. . If you look at it, Bush senior gave a good speech, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Charter, and many of the others before him. Your comment wasn't very well thought out. The idiot card is in your hands and shows your racism for what it is. Look at life from a different and bigger perspective. Maybe you might see something you completely overlooked.

[The12lber]

How can someone that is not for what America stands for

Can you explain why he is not for what America stands for?

[The12lber]

Agreed, I wouldn't unnecessarily call it racist but definitely amplified by his race and religion, and I'm talking about a lot of the white people who support him. Not saying don't vote for him, but don't do it just so you can say "I'm not racist, I voted for Obama." Seems to be what's happening.

You know he's a Christian... which is the mainstream religion in this country... right... RIGHT?

[tony]

The only reason i AGREE with McCain is because we "broke" Iraq and need to fix it, just like if you go to Macy's you break a plate on display, you pay for (fix) it.

We broke Vietnam and Japan but that didnt mean stay there and allow our soldiers to be killed for years to come along with billions of dollars spent.

[tony]

he's an intelligent guy, ill admit that, and he's got his skin color going for him....


but how is he going to change anything? all i hear is im for change, we're for change, change change change......but he never says how....which is sort of an important part to the equation.

He states it in every time he says change.. again the media spins it as all he says is change and nothing more and those who do not take the initiative believe it.

He talks about changing partisan politics, he has sponsored legislation to create a barrier between lobbyists and lawmakers. Change in Iraq obviously, healthcare.. the list goes on and on.

[man]

You know he's a Christian... which is the mainstream religion in this country... right... RIGHT?

I know, that's not really how I meant it, I was slightly intoxicated last night. But people see this stuff in the media and it drives some away and some closer.

[On_Her_Face]

We broke Vietnam and Japan but that didnt mean stay there and allow our soldiers to be killed for years to come along with billions of dollars spent.

Yes but how many more men were loosing per day in vietnam? Also i believe we fixed Japan..

[The12lber]

I know, that's not really how I meant it, I was slightly intoxicated last night. But people see this stuff in the media and it drives some away and some closer.

A fair majority of the people I talk to about politics casually around campus and whatever think he is a muslim, and seem slightly put off by this. I think its funny how this demonstrates two things at once... the tremendous degree to which people of voting age are uninformed and how common deep seated xenophobia is.

[The12lber]

Yes but how many more men were loosing per day in vietnam? Also i believe we fixed Japan..

"Fix" Japan? It was never broken it in the first place. They had imperial ambitions and they paid the price of failure. That's it.

[The12lber]

We broke Vietnam and Japan but that didnt mean stay there and allow our soldiers to be killed for years to come along with billions of dollars spent.

Just for the record sir, isn't that exactly what we did in Vietnam?

[On_Her_Face]

"Fix" Japan? It was never broken it in the first place. They had imperial ambitions and they paid the price of failure. That's it.

Atomic Bomb = BROKEN

[On_Her_Face]

Just for the record sir, isn't that exactly what we did in Vietnam?

I believe Tony is making a relation to the war in Iraq, that we need to get out of Iraq and stop wasting money. (not staying like we did in Vietnam for so long)

[Motivation]

If we pull out all of the troups in Iraq at once, the soldiers that have lost their life in the war (for what they believe in, THEY joined for a reason, THEY knew what was going on, THEY thought it was worth risking there lives for), what did they die for? It would all be in vain imo... I agree, the war has turned into something different that the reason it started... But if we pull out now we could be making things worse. I know it's a saying every one has seen but, "Fight them there, or fight them here."
But everyone's view is going to be different. That's what makes this world.

[Motivation]

Can you explain why he is not for what America stands for?

I was referring to the flag and saluting it. The flag is not supposed to just be looked at as some colorful material hanging from a pole, window, a sticker on a car, etc. We should be able to be proud when we see the flag flying...

[BanginJimmy]

We broke Vietnam and Japan but that didnt mean stay there and allow our soldiers to be killed for years to come along with billions of dollars spent.

we still have bases in Japan and we spent hundreds of billions of dollars there in the late 40's thorugh the end of the 50's. In todays terms that would have been well into the trillions.

Vietnam and Iraq have several things in common.
1. Interference from an enemy of the US. In Viet-Nam it was the Chinese and Russians. In Iraq it is the Iranians and foreign fighters.

2. Politics getting in the way of the military. Anytime you get politicians involved in military operations you only get bad things happening. Iraq is a glaring example of that. If the military was able to do their job without any political intervention we could get this job done.

3. Media embedded with military units. It became popular in Viet-Nam with the body counts and such, and it is happening again now. This only works to get in the way of the military units and to vilinize them.

[The12lber]

we still have bases in Japan and we spent hundreds of billions of dollars there in the late 40's thorugh the end of the 50's. In todays terms that would have been well into the trillions.

We didn't spend that money fighting a hard earned battle with Japanese nationalists fighting our occupation. We spent those dollars in Japan creating military infrastructure because the ability to stage our military assetts there was extremely valuable at the time. I'll let you be a big boy and figure out why!

Vietnam and Iraq have several things in common.
1. Interference from an enemy of the US. In Viet-Nam it was the Chinese and Russians. In Iraq it is the Iranians and foreign fighters.

2. Politics getting in the way of the military. Anytime you get politicians involved in military operations you only get bad things happening. Iraq is a glaring example of that. If the military was able to do their job without any political intervention we could get this job done.

Those pesky fools, always asking tough questions when we choose to sacrifice thosuands of American lives, billions (going on trillions) of American dollars and further destabilizing an already unstable region. We should let it go regardless of what it is or isn't accomplishing and who's lives it is wasting . Like in Vietnam... we were fighting to prevent the domino effect from taking hold... and we won and it didn't. Oh, wait, we lost and it didn't? And Communist Vietnam hasn't started anything with anyone since? Damn, tough break America.

3. Media embedded with military units. It became popular in Viet-Nam with the body counts and such, and it is happening again now. This only works to get in the way of the military units and to vilinize them.

Yes, because you know, the military is always faultless and we should always assume so. The My Lai massacre and that time those soldiers gang raped the teenage Iraqi girl and then killed her whole family, reporting on stuff like that definitely unjustly portrays those soldiers as villains. And we shouldn't know about it.

u r smrt

[The12lber]

I believe Tony is making a relation to the war in Iraq, that we need to get out of Iraq and stop wasting money. (not staying like we did in Vietnam for so long)

He was making a relation, just the other way around.

[The12lber]

If we pull out all of the troups in Iraq at once, the soldiers that have lost their life in the war (for what they believe in, THEY joined for a reason, THEY knew what was going on, THEY thought it was worth risking there lives for), what did they die for? It would all be in vain imo... I agree, the war has turned into something different that the reason it started... But if we pull out now we could be making things worse. I know it's a saying every one has seen but, "Fight them there, or fight them here."
But everyone's view is going to be different. That's what makes this world.

The rational that they would die in vain if more Americans didn't throw away their lives too is total bull****.

Its not "fight them there, or fight them here." THERE WERE NO ISLAMIC EXTREMIST TERRORIST GROUPS IN IRAQ BEFORE THE INVASION. Saddam hated them and they hated Saddam. Unfortunately for them, Saddam has the upper hand in this mutually unfriendly relationship as Saddam had an iron grip on all the country but the north. "Fighting them over there" only created another area for them to operate and another way to gain more recruits.

Another stunning revelation, the vast majority of violence in Iraq... not the work of Islamic extremists. I know the media likes to throw around the A.Q. name all the time. The actual activity level of Al-Qaeda? Army intelligence estimates they account for around 3-5% of the violence in Iraq as of late last year. Most of the violence is sectarian violence or the work of ordinary Iraqis who just want us out.

[The12lber]

Atomic Bomb = BROKEN

Sorry, but you are wrong. All the atomic bombs did is this - destroy a lot of building and lives. It didn't destroy anything else. Not the government and not stability within the nation. There wasn't a guerilla war against our occupying troops or sectarian violence within the nation. There was nothing about the situation "broken" in the same sense Iraq is broke or any sense at all really. The only thing broken in Japan in 1946 was the peopple's pride. If you're going to talk about history at least get the basics down.

[On_Her_Face]

Sorry, but you are wrong. All the atomic bombs did is this - destroy a lot of building and lives. It didn't destroy anything else. Not the government and not stability within the nation. There wasn't a guerilla war against our occupying troops or sectarian violence within the nation. There was nothing about the situation "broken" in the same sense Iraq is broke or any sense at all really. The only thing broken in Japan in 1946 was the peopple's pride. If you're going to talk about history at least get the basics down.

We still payed for the things we "broke"

that's basically what i meant

[The12lber]

We still payed for the things we "broke"

that's basically what i meant

I'm unsure of the specifics but I'm reasonably certain we didn't pay for any of the damage we did with the atomic bombs because that would have set the precedent that we should rebuild everything destroyed in the firebombing campaign etc.

[tony]

Just for the record sir, isn't that exactly what we did in Vietnam?

Do you really believe we left Vietnam because of victory?

[tony]

Sorry, but you are wrong. All the atomic bombs did is this - destroy a lot of building and lives. It didn't destroy anything else. Not the government and not stability within the nation. There wasn't a guerilla war against our occupying troops or sectarian violence within the nation. There was nothing about the situation "broken" in the same sense Iraq is broke or any sense at all really. The only thing broken in Japan in 1946 was the peopple's pride. If you're going to talk about history at least get the basics down.

WTF??? 200,000 citizens isn't broken? What.. 3,000 people died in the world trade center bombings and we dropped 2 NUCLEAR BOMBS on men, women and children not to mention the environmental implications of nuclear weapons. You've got to be ****ing kidding me.. I'm sorry, and not that my opinion matters but you just lost all credibility on this subject.

we still have bases in Japan and we spent hundreds of billions of dollars there in the late 40's thorugh the end of the 50's. In todays terms that would have been well into the trillions.

Vietnam and Iraq have several things in common.
1. Interference from an enemy of the US. In Viet-Nam it was the Chinese and Russians. In Iraq it is the Iranians and foreign fighters.

2. Politics getting in the way of the military. Anytime you get politicians involved in military operations you only get bad things happening. Iraq is a glaring example of that. If the military was able to do their job without any political intervention we could get this job done.

3. Media embedded with military units. It became popular in Viet-Nam with the body counts and such, and it is happening again now. This only works to get in the way of the military units and to vilinize them.

1. A good portion of Iranians actually adore American Culture and completely respect it. The current administration would like you to believe Iran hates us when that is far from the truth, as I said in the other thread Iranian soldiers fought alongside ours in Afghanistan after 9/11..

2. The military is run by the government and the president is Commander and Chief.. kind of hard to take the politics out of that.

3. I agree here..soldiers should be able to do their job without worry of the media.

If we pull out all of the troups in Iraq at once, the soldiers that have lost their life in the war (for what they believe in, THEY joined for a reason, THEY knew what was going on, THEY thought it was worth risking there lives for), what did they die for? It would all be in vain imo... I agree, the war has turned into something different that the reason it started... But if we pull out now we could be making things worse. I know it's a saying every one has seen but, "Fight them there, or fight them here."
But everyone's view is going to be different. That's what makes this world.

The war was in vain from the start. You are fighting a political war against a religious army. This doesn't end with just a few battles, something of this magnitude requires diplomacy not military force.

[MistaCee]

Do you really believe we left Vietnam because of victory?

My thought exactly

[On_Her_Face]

I'm unsure of the specifics but I'm reasonably certain we didn't pay for any of the damage we did with the atomic bombs because that would have set the precedent that we should rebuild everything destroyed in the firebombing campaign etc.

We paid then war reparations afterwards, not just for the atomic bomb

[On_Her_Face]

Anyway this thread is getting way of topic, overall I think that we can all mostly agree that IF Obama becomes president then is a good chance that Obama can divide the nation even more. Not just because of his actions as President, but because of the racist people and the media.