Atheist

[David88vert]

From reference.com:

An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings.

An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine.

No one can prove or disprove God's existence. Either you believe or you don't. For both believers and non-believers, you have to have faith in your own beliefs. An atheist has to believe there is no God, while an agnostic just says that they don't know enough to make a decision and thus are not required to believe either way.

[Vayda]

Right-o, I suppose my question is more whether or not an atheist denies the existence of ALL divine beings, or just the typical ones.

[David88vert]

Right-o, I suppose my question is more whether or not an atheist denies the existence of ALL divine beings, or just the typical ones.

By definition, it would be all. Otherwise, they would be a skeptic.

[bu villain]

Agnostic = No way to know know if there is a god or not
Atheism = There is no god

What pushed me from Agnosticism to Atheism was a simple thought experiment. I asked myself "Do I believe in [fairies, minotaurs, etc.)]?". The answer was no. Surely I can't know for a fact that they do not exist (agnosticism) but having seen 0 evidence means that I place the probability of it existing so low that for all intents in purposes I do not believe they exist (atheism).

[Vayda]

So you're claiming you know everything, then?

Man, you're such a know-it-all. :P

Or you're naieve and ignorant. You say that you've never seen something, so the probability of it existing is negligible. You've never seen my roommate, or my fiance, or my parents. So obviously they don't exist either, do they? You've probably never seen any evidence of them, except maybe my parents. But you've never seen any evidence that I have a 32" television in front of me. Does that mean I don't have one?

It's pretty impressive, for someone to know EVERYTHING, to the point where they can safely say that they know for sure that in all the universe something is nonexistant.


I don't think most self-proclaimed atheists are really atheists. I think they just don't believe in the Christian god, and extend that to all higher powers. Do you believe in Karma, Nirvana, or hell, Luck? Because ALL of those are higher powers.

[mad3nch1na]

Do you believe in Civil Religion?

[Vayda]

From Wiki:

In his book, Rousseau outlines the simple dogmas of the civil religion:

1. life to come,
2. the reward of virtue and the punishment of vice, and
3. the exclusion of religious intolerance.

So do i believe in the principles he's outlined? I suppose so, if this is the extent of it. This is another thing we need to define...

I know i'm annoying, asking for definitions, and what it means, but the problem is that we can't argue about anything until we're all arguing about the same thing. I can sit here and say "the sky is violet" where my definition of violet is the same as your definition of blue. But until we each know how the other defines their position, we're going to go in circles.

[Maniac1]

So you're claiming you know everything, then?

Man, you're such a know-it-all. :P

Or you're naieve and ignorant. You say that you've never seen something, so the probability of it existing is negligible. You've never seen my roommate, or my fiance, or my parents. So obviously they don't exist either, do they? You've probably never seen any evidence of them, except maybe my parents. But you've never seen any evidence that I have a 32" television in front of me. Does that mean I don't have one?

It's pretty impressive, for someone to know EVERYTHING, to the point where they can safely say that they know for sure that in all the universe something is nonexistant.


I don't think most self-proclaimed atheists are really atheists. I think they just don't believe in the Christian god, and extend that to all higher powers. Do you believe in Karma, Nirvana, or hell, Luck? Because ALL of those are higher powers.

OK, enough of this smartass attitude.

He wasn't claiming to know everything, none of us are. We're just saying that there hasn't been any evidence of a higher power ever existing, so therefore we base our beliefs into that! No god has ever been; seen, heard, felt, ect. thus there is no god.

You bringing up examples like your family doesn't prove a point. We all know human beings exist. So we won't argue that they don't exist, if you would have used something like the tooth fairy then maybe it would have been a good example, but you didn't. You're right about the atheists not really being atheists, because im sure alot of them do believe in luck, karma, and whatever else there is that falls into the same catagory.

If someone believes in hell than they have to believe in heaven, because there can't exist one without the other. Where there is evil there is good. So I don't know about the rest, but I disbelieve in jesus christ and everything that is in the bible is crap. But when you look at it and put alot of thought into it, there always has to be something greater than you out there.

I don't know why, but I do.

Don't know what it is or could be... thats how I see it.

Now im sure in the future we'll find the answers to these questions and come up with a new conclusion then. But til then we're left with what we know and believe in now. Which is really all we got, instead of looking for guidence from our past and seeking into the future by making prediction we should focus in the "now."

I've been wasting too many brain cells over this topic for a good week now, and im drained. LOL people are welcomed to post, but im staying out of it for the time being. Hopefully I still see some educated people posting in here. XD

[David88vert]

No god has ever been; seen, heard, felt, ect. thus there is no god.

... if you would have used something like the tooth fairy then maybe it would have been a good example...

Ok, let's take the tooth fairy. Since you haven't seen the tooth fairy, it must not exist, correct? Suppose you lose a tooth, put it under your pillow one night, and wake up the next morning to find a quarter in it's place? Do you believe:

A) The natural order of the universe is to replace teeth with quarters.
B) Pillows have a magical power to convert teeth to quarters
C) Some external force was messing with you and you want your damn tooth back because a quarter isn't worth anything anymore!

If you cannot detect something physically, does that mean it is not real? What about the concepts of love and hate? What about all concepts? You cannot physcially measure love, does that mean that it does not exist? Especially since "God is love" in the Bible - does that mean that you really don't want to believe in love? Also, what about hate, faith, hope, justice, etc? Do they exist? What makes them real to you?

[Blitanicle99]

I started reading your thread in order to understand whats going on. Then I got ADD as **** and said screw it.
Im not very religious... I have alot of friends that are and thats their choice. Everyone has the right to their own opinion and some people dont believe anything untill they see it.
But in a sense, I had that whole thread about haunted **** and all that. I completely believe in ghosts/demons and have had plenty of experiances. And with that, I could not understand how that could be possible and some sort of "god" or "higher being" was not possible. When you posted the Zietheist (spelling?) movie I watched it a few times. It was pretty cool not gonna lie. But the one point I did like that it emphasized that with good, there is always bad and vise versa. So with all my experiances ghost hunting or whatever you wish to call it, I absolutely believe in a god or higher power. I am not into religion that much, nothing has really touched/caught my attention/called to me that I have seen so far.

I seriously want to make friends with some native americans, and ask them about it. I mean, chillin around a fire, smoking a "peace pipe" might cause you to see some crazy ****. You never know untill you try lol

[Vayda]

If you believe in ANY higher power, then BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION, you are not an atheist.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

And if Heaven and Hell have to exist in tandem, you should go talk to some Jewish people, because they only believe in one.


More or less my point is that unless you claim to know everything, you can't say there's DEFINITELY no god. Now, if you wanna say you don't believe in Christianity, Jesus, and whathaveyou, that's a different story. And we can argue about that all day long, with much better results.

And aside from that, just because YOU haven't seen, heard, or experienced any physical evidence of a god doesn't mean other people haven't. Consider the tooth fairy, if you want to use that example. We all know that's not true, and yet you HAVE experienced evidence that it is. So why is the reverse not true? It seems like a leap of logic to say that because you haven't seen any evidence of something that in the whole wide universe it doesn't exist.


I'm getting bored with reading the same arguments over and over. Can we start a thread about whether or not Heaven exists? Because I'd like to hear some thoughts on that....what it is, what it takes to get there, if it exists at all, you know.

[Revmaynard]

I'm an atheist who was raised Baptist for thirteen years. I feel as much of a presence of a ''god'' as hurricane Katrina survivors did of the gov't.

When you've never been given any substantial proof of something it's easy to have no faith in it. I really can't believe people who believe in karma and luck, wtf, is that supposed to be magic? You didn't win the lottery because you have good luck, you ****ing had good odds.

[Vayda]

^^ That's an atheist.

No karma, no luck, no god.

*applause* reps to you. Not that i'm worth much.

[Revmaynard]

^^ That's an atheist.

No karma, no luck, no god.

*applause* reps to you. Not that i'm worth much.

That made me LIRL. Thanks I guess.

[Maniac1]

I'm getting bored with reading the same arguments over and over. Can we start a thread about whether or not Heaven exists? Because I'd like to hear some thoughts on that....what it is, what it takes to get there, if it exists at all, you know.

Why don't you start it? I'd post my opinion...

[Vayda]

I might. Maniac, did you see my thread in the whoreslounge about Lambuel? There's an awesome picture of you in it.

[bu villain]

So you're claiming you know everything, then?

Man, you're such a know-it-all. :P

Or you're naieve and ignorant. You say that you've never seen something, so the probability of it existing is negligible. You've never seen my roommate, or my fiance, or my parents. So obviously they don't exist either, do they? You've probably never seen any evidence of them, except maybe my parents. But you've never seen any evidence that I have a 32" television in front of me. Does that mean I don't have one?

Not making that claim at all. What I am saying is that I do not believe in something for which I have no evidence for. If you say you have a TV in front of you, I will likely believe you because I have seen a TV before, know they are common, and see no reason for you to lie (though I would accept that I could not know for sure). If you continued and said it was 1000 inches, spherical, and pink then I would not beleive you. It is the specific features people attribute to God (omniscient, omnipotent, self-concious, etc.)which make it unbelievable to atheists. If you are saying you believe something or not, those kind of details are important.

It's pretty impressive, for someone to know EVERYTHING, to the point where they can safely say that they know for sure that in all the universe something is nonexistant.


I don't think most self-proclaimed atheists are really atheists. I think they just don't believe in the Christian god, and extend that to all higher powers. Do you believe in Karma, Nirvana, or hell, Luck? Because ALL of those are higher powers.

I think you are absolutely right that no Atheist can believe in Hell, but they can believe in luck and karma. Of course, as I was saying before it depends on your definition. I would say luck is just beating the odds, it is not something people are endowed with, it is just a way of describing odds and outcomes. Karma is just recognition that actions have consequences even if they are not immediately apparent.

[bu villain]

Ok, let's take the tooth fairy. Since you haven't seen the tooth fairy, it must not exist, correct? Suppose you lose a tooth, put it under your pillow one night, and wake up the next morning to find a quarter in it's place? Do you believe:

A) The natural order of the universe is to replace teeth with quarters.
B) Pillows have a magical power to convert teeth to quarters
C) Some external force was messing with you and you want your damn tooth back because a quarter isn't worth anything anymore!

If you cannot detect something physically, does that mean it is not real? What about the concepts of love and hate? What about all concepts? You cannot physcially measure love, does that mean that it does not exist? Especially since "God is love" in the Bible - does that mean that you really don't want to believe in love? Also, what about hate, faith, hope, justice, etc? Do they exist? What makes them real to you?

On the tooth fairy example, my answer would be C. Some external force most likely did it. But it seems much more likely that the external force was your parents rather than a magical fairy. Further investigation would be needed to be truly confident (say set up a video camera) but without that evidence it is more logical to believe it was your parents.

Not being able to physically detect something does not necessarily mean it isn't real. Hate, faith, justice, etc are only "real" because they are the words we use for feelings. If you define God as a feeling you have then God would be real in the same sense. However, the common meaning of God is not described this way.

[David88vert]

Hate, faith, justice, etc are only "real" because they are the words we use for feelings. If you define God as a feeling you have then God would be real in the same sense. However, the common meaning of God is not described this way.

Real is either 0 or 1. There is no "real" (quasi-real). It is either detectable in this universe and is finite, or it is not. Now you want to say that non-measureable, infinite items are "real", but a god is not? Interesting....

[bu villain]

Real is either 0 or 1. There is no "real" (quasi-real). It is either detectable in this universe and is finite, or it is not. Now you want to say that non-measureable, infinite items are "real", but a god is not? Interesting....

I guess I wasn't clear then. Hate, love, etc. are NOT REAL, they are abstract concepts used to describe REAL brain functioning (feelings).

[Magnus213]

I watched "Jesus Camp" yesterday. Holy hell. I realize that it's pretty much the worst of Christianity short of Westboro Baptist, but it was scary.

[David88vert]

I guess I wasn't clear then. Hate, love, etc. are NOT REAL, they are abstract concepts used to describe REAL brain functioning (feelings).

So you have no hate or love? Interesting....

[Maniac1]

So you have no hate or love? Interesting....

Like he said, those are feelings. Love and hate have two different definitions but they're both really just the same. Both are feelings created by our brain. Just like when you're cold or hot, our body is affected by the temperature around us, thus acting in strange ways. They're all just brain functions.

[{X}Echo419]

I'm not an atheist and I don't care if anyone is. so there.

[Turbo04]

I'm not an atheist and I don't care if anyone is. so there.

Exactly. Although I would view it as a rather bleak existance to have the outlook that nothing is beyond this physical world. You die thats it, nothing else. Kinda puts a damper on life in general...I mean how would you stay motivated to know that when you die everything you've worked for and done with your life is for nothing? I'm not sure I could NOT believe in something else past this life...be it heaven/hell/ coming back as some type of animal etc.....

but everyone should be allowed to believe or not believe what they choose.

[David88vert]

Like he said, those are feelings. Love and hate have two different definitions but they're both really just the same. Both are feelings created by our brain. Just like when you're cold or hot, our body is affected by the temperature around us, thus acting in strange ways. They're all just brain functions.

So knowledge and friendship don't exist either, correct? So you can't be described as anyone's friend, and you can't be labelled as smart either (eince there is no such thing as knowledge to you).
And what tells the brain if it is love or hate? The difference has to be defined, as the brian can only detect neurosignals, and then interprets them based on its definitions. What is defining these responses? Does it exist physically? Can you measure it, or show me the location of the definitions?
And if you went through long-term sensory deprivation, would that lower your capability to love or hate? Could you measure that?

[Vayda]

What is "real"? How do you define "real"? If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.

And while we're at it...

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

[autumnk5]

i remember one day in class we were discussing skepticism. and it was getting pretty deep. it's like what y'all are talking about with love, hate, friendship, and knowledge.

my fingers are touching the keys right now? or are they? how do i know they aren't just pressing the air around the keys making the key press in? how do i know i'm not touching other particles that are on top of the key, which would make it press in?

pretty deep stuff. and that's like the question of god. many people say they dream of god. how do they know it's god? for all they know it's just a man saying he's god. i can say i'm god. but does that mean i'm god? no. it just shows how skeptic you are about things.

and the spoon bending? how do you know the spoon is bent? how do you know it's not just your mind playing tricks on you?

i'm very skeptic about things i guess. if you read about it, it gets pretty deep and philosophical.