The world may end in 2012 but

[Bajjani]

Capitalism started dying 2nite in America!

[thegovanator]

Agreed

[Mantooth]

I thought about making this thread. Man, this fucking sucks.

[Me86Rob]

??

[Bajjani]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/...ain/index.html

[thegovanator]

I got ninja'd

[RL...]

I'm not for gov. intervention unless on things that are needed like public education, but this bill doesn't seem to bad, and doesn't seem that it will affect me too much....They're not rasiing taxes(atleast not yet) they're merely reallocating the way they budget their money.

[Bajjani]

I'm not for gov. intervention unless on things that are needed like public education, but this bill doesn't seem to bad, and doesn't seem that it will affect me too much....They're not rasiing taxes(atleast not yet) they're merely reallocating the way they budget their money.

Income taxes are going to go up. Company side costs will skyrocket by over 100%. Companys will have to cut costs. That includes pay cuts, layoffs, and getting rid of things like 401k plans all together.

[RL...]

Income taxes are going to go up. Company side costs will skyrocket by over 100%. Companys will have to cut costs. That includes pay cuts, layoffs, and getting rid of things like 401k plans all together.

Is this speculation or do you have proof behind this? I can understand why you think this might happen but unless you have proof then it's neither here nor there. But realistically the companies will probably pass the added cost of covering insurance on to it's employees and customers....could be worse, we could be in China...

[japan4racing]

even if they dont raise your taxes they are raising ppls taxes that make alot of money(big business and some small business)....their taxes go up and the price of their product goes up...and who pays for that???? thats right..we do! so even if our taxes stay the same we still pay more...its simple economics.

[RL...]

even if they dont raise your taxes they are raising ppls taxes that make alot of money(big business and some small business)....their taxes go up and the price of their product goes up...and who pays for that???? thats right..we do! so even if our taxes stay the same we still pay more...its simple economics.

It doesn't sound like the gov. is going to directly raise taxes for big or small busniess from this bill. Maybe maybe not. The gov. could come up with ways to give companies subsidies to help offset the costs of inusring employees, or companies could find other means cutting costs such as increasing efficiency. If you have taken a basic econ class as I have you would know it's not as cut and dry as what you described. All we can do is speculate until we see the results of this bill, and that's all this is is speculation.

[Bacon]

making health insurance mandatory or else?!?! thats a bunch of horse shit.

[Got Milk?]

This is what caught my eyes"Most Americans will now be required to have health insurance or pay a fine. Larger employers will be required to provide coverage or risk financial penalties. Total individual out-of-pocket expenses will be capped, and insurers will be barred from denying coverage based on gender or pre-existing conditions."

[SlowEG9]

I just wander when the shits going to actually start taking place

[Bacon]

This is what caught my eyes"Most Americans will now be required to have health insurance or pay a fine. Larger employers will be required to provide coverage or risk financial penalties. Total individual out-of-pocket expenses will be capped, and insurers will be barred from denying coverage based on gender or pre-existing conditions."

Think the cost of insurance will go down? Shit ain't cheap for a family.

[SlowEG9]

Think the cost of insurance will go down? Shit ain't cheap for a family.

Hell no...Why would it go down if its required now? You know people gotta have it...

[Elbow]

Why do so many people cry about this? It's not a bad thing and won't really effect anyone here for the most part. Maybe this means I can get health insurance easier now. My trip to the ER the other night cost me $500 just to get in a room, $500 in blood work, $500 to the doctor, $75 monitoring fee even though I wasn't monitored for my five hour visit, and more.

[§treet_§peed]

Why do so many people cry about this? It's not a bad thing and won't really effect anyone here for the most part. Maybe this means I can get health insurance easier now. My trip to the ER the other night cost me $500 just to get in a room, $500 in blood work, $500 to the doctor, $75 monitoring fee even though I wasn't monitored for my five hour visit, and more.

Shit you got off cheap, real cheap.

[Elbow]

Shit you got off cheap, real cheap.

Well $2k in bills because of a sore throat isn't too cheap. lol

[David88vert]

In ten years, you won't even get to see a doctor for a sore throat. You will have wait times longer than they do in Canada.

[Elbow]

In ten years, you won't even get to see a doctor for a sore throat. You will have wait times longer than they do in Canada.

That comment is entirely untrue. You may want to do more reading.

[David88vert]

That comment is entirely untrue. You may want to do more reading.

It is true. I have Canadian friends that cross the border to pay for healthcare services. It's well-known. Here are their published times.
http://canadaonline.about.com/od/hea..._in_Canada.htm

In 2000, the WHO ranked the US #1 in quality of care for those receiving treatment, and Canada was #7.

[oneSLOWex]

If the already struggling businesses are required to provide health care....how do you think they are going to get the money for that? I don't see how anyone can be happy about this shit.

[Bacon]

No crying about it here because I have insurance, but if they are gonna make it mandatory they gotta make it easier price wise for the people to get it. It would make sense to do that, but then again it is our government we are talking about here.

[Vteckidd]

Why do so many people cry about this? It's not a bad thing and won't really effect anyone here for the most part. Maybe this means I can get health insurance easier now. My trip to the ER the other night cost me $500 just to get in a room, $500 in blood work, $500 to the doctor, $75 monitoring fee even though I wasn't monitored for my five hour visit, and more.

You obviously have no idea how this works. You can get insurance for under $100 a month I guarantee if you don't smoke. You choose to not pay that money and go uncovered. That's your fault. Furthermore er for a sore throat is stupid. You should have gone to a minute clinic an you would have paid $75 for visit and meds.

It is a big deal it effects everyone, taxes will rise, premiums will rise, private companies will go out of business, unemployment will rise, recession will drag on

[Vteckidd]

That comment is entirely untrue. You may want to do more reading.

You run a business right? You can't expand coverage by 15-20% more people and keep the existing staff which is already understaffed and expect the same or faster wait times. That's just dumb.

[Elbow]

You obviously have no idea how this works. You can get insurance for under $100 a month I guarantee if you don't smoke. You choose to not pay that money and go uncovered. That's your fault. Furthermore er for a sore throat is stupid. You should have gone to a minute clinic an you would have paid $75 for visit and meds.

It is a big deal it effects everyone, taxes will rise, premiums will rise, private companies will go out of business, unemployment will rise, recession will drag on

I can't get insurance obviously if I only had to pay $100 a month I would, why wouldn't I? I get turned down for "previous health reasons." There are no 24 hour clinics in Athens that I found and the pain was INSANE, I broke my foot in HALF and it wasn't even half the pain my throat was so yeah it was kind of necessary. I'm not complaining about the bill it was worth it for the pain to stop.

Small companies will not go out of business because of this, taxes who cares? I don't. Unemployment won't rise because companies won't close. The recession will drag on but that's not because of this. I'm not saying I'm ENTIRELY for this there are better ways but people are making it out to be the worst thing that's happened.

[Paul]

I think anyone who has had to deal w/ any type of hardship medically was very glad they had insurance. I don't see anything wrong with us extending coverage to 30+ million people. Independent studies have shown this is the right course of action so I don't see what the big deal is. The same group who researched this plan has been used by both Dem/Rep in the past. They have gov funded healthcare all over the world and it works well - people who say it doesn't work I would love to know how many have been to countries w/ such a system. (and when i say all over the world i mean europe, south america, etc)

[Bajjani]

I'm tired of hearing you fucking retards tell me this isn't going to affect me or I won't see change. Do you have any fucking clue what you're talking about or are you talking out of your ass because you want some fuckin handouts? I'm serious, this shit pisses me off beyond belief.

Let me break it down for you, factually, from the business standpoint.

Healthcare is now MANDATORY and they just removed the cap on how much insurance companies can charge. Not only do businesses have to provide healthcare to the EMPLOYEE, but also his entire family. For a twenty million a year revenue company with approx. 150 employees, you're looking at a cost change from 200-300k, to 500-800k. First off, the economy is already struggling, business is down, businesses are struggling and making huge cuts, look at our fucking unemployment. So this is the bottom line affect people are putting on companies. That means above said company will have to generate another 300-500k GROSS PROFIT just to cover medical cost to make no changes and make the same bottom line. That means 300-500k after we pay for taxes, labor, equipment, material, subs, whatever other costs may be incurred to generate that revenue. That means realistically you're looking at a required increase in revenue of about 1.2-1.5 million, minimum. That is just to cover the change in cost of medical. Companies are not going to be able to just say, oh well lets just go do more business, its not that easy. That means companies have to raise their prices to pay for a portion of it, cut benefit programs such as 401k, and here is the best one, LAYOFFS!!

So then what happens? Well, we have more unemployed people so businesses can stay afloat, but healthcare is free for people w/o jobs so the cost goes up again, but this time not as much. The majority of companies that survive are the huge corporations and the tiny tiny stores (under a half a million-million revenue). These companies have few enough employees the cost, but the middle ground companies, the 1-100million range, they'll suffer. MANY of them will not be able to incur these costs and stay afloat, that means more unemployed. The bigger corporations will pick up the new business and hire. Long term affect possibility is that we head more towards socialism. Reasoning being that as these large corporations pick up all the mid sized companies business, they became monopolies and closed markets. The government doesn't like those and the government will step in. MY THEORY is if this shit continues the government will say this is a mess we need to run it for you. Eventually we'll end up as a socialist country. I know my ass will be moved to the UK way before that happens though.

[Bajjani]

I think anyone who has had to deal w/ any type of hardship medically was very glad they had insurance. I don't see anything wrong with us extending coverage to 30+ million people. Independent studies have shown this is the right course of action so I don't see what the big deal is. The same group who researched this plan has been used by both Dem/Rep in the past. They have gov funded healthcare all over the world and it works well - people who say it doesn't work I would love to know how many have been to countries w/ such a system. (and when i say all over the world i mean europe, south america, etc)

I have, it doesn't work.

[Paul]

You obviously have no idea how this works. You can get insurance for under $100 a month I guarantee if you don't smoke. You choose to not pay that money and go uncovered. That's your fault. Furthermore er for a sore throat is stupid. You should have gone to a minute clinic an you would have paid $75 for visit and meds.

It is a big deal it effects everyone, taxes will rise, premiums will rise, private companies will go out of business, unemployment will rise, recession will drag on

your 100$ insurance doesn't cover shit nor will it cover preexisting conditions i'm sure of. i don't buy into the far right fear factor you want to sell - this system has been used all over the world in countries who economies are better than ours currently. they aren't slashing jobs due to this. most companies are small businesses and have less than 50 employees so this will have not effect on them.

[Vteckidd]

You realize that businesses must now incur and extra expense or pay a fine right? That cost will get cycled into 1) cost of goods 2)employees

history has shown us that when you raise the expenses of a business they find a way to pass that cost on. Now if we weren't in a recession and unemployment was around 4% and economy was booming not a big deal IMO, but in this climate all they did was insure a longer recovery or maybe even a collapse.

If you are already cash strapped business and now you must provide healthcare to your employees, that business will either lay more people off resultig in higher unemployment, or close it's doors resulting in higher unemployment, or raise it's prices on it's services or goods which hurts all Americans

they will be single handedly destroying private insurance companies. This is a step to a single payer system Obama has said it all along this is just the beginning. This bill breaks the backs and puts insurers out of business. How many people are employed by the insurance companies

yeah I think your head is in the sand

[Paul]

I have, it doesn't work.

really what country are you a citizen of that you have gov funded healthcare?

[Vteckidd]

I think anyone who has had to deal w/ any type of hardship medically was very glad they had insurance. I don't see anything wrong with us extending coverage to 30+ million people. Independent studies have shown this is the right course of action so I don't see what the big deal is. The same group who researched this plan has been used by both Dem/Rep in the past. They have gov funded healthcare all over the world and it works well - people who say it doesn't work I would love to know how many have been to countries w/ such a system. (and when i say all over the world i mean europe, south america, etc)

Those 30 million can wait 4 years for coverage you know that right. But they can start paying NOW

[Vteckidd]

I think anyone who has had to deal w/ any type of hardship medically was very glad they had insurance. I don't see anything wrong with us extending coverage to 30+ million people. Independent studies have shown this is the right course of action so I don't see what the big deal is. The same group who researched this plan has been used by both Dem/Rep in the past. They have gov funded healthcare all over the world and it works well - people who say it doesn't work I would love to know how many have been to countries w/ such a system. (and when i say all over the world i mean europe, south america, etc)

Those 30 million can wait 4 years for coverage you know that right. But they can start paying NOW

why are we ranked #1 if everyone else is so great

[Paul]

You realize that businesses must now incur and extra expense or pay a fine right? That cost will get cycled into 1) cost of goods 2)employees

history has shown us that when you raise the expenses of a business they find a way to pass that cost on. Now if we weren't in a recession and unemployment was around 4% and economy was booming not a big deal IMO, but in this climate all they did was insure a longer recovery or maybe even a collapse.

If you are already cash strapped business and now you must provide healthcare to your employees, that business will either lay more people off resultig in higher unemployment, or close it's doors resulting in higher unemployment, or raise it's prices on it's services or goods which hurts all Americans

they will be single handedly destroying private insurance companies. This is a step to a single payer system Obama has said it all along this is just the beginning. This bill breaks the backs and puts insurers out of business. How many people are employed by the insurance companies

yeah I think your head is in the sand

if you work for a company w/ over 50 employees who isn't offering healthcare currently strapped for cash they aren't built for a recession anyway. my company works on cash alone and we offer healthcare... why? b/c it is ran fiscally responsible where other companies aren't. the notion that 30+ million new consumers to the market is bad is crazy! all private healthcare companies will make money off of this and you are crazy to think other wise.

[Vteckidd]

your 100$ insurance doesn't cover shit nor will it cover preexisting conditions i'm sure of. i don't buy into the far right fear factor you want to sell - this system has been used all over the world in countries who economies are better than ours currently. they aren't slashing jobs due to this. most companies are small businesses and have less than 50 employees so this will have not effect on them.

Bullshit care to see my policy? I have aetna

Economies better than ours? Bullshit prove it, France? Brazil? Chile? China? Greece? Germany?

Define "better" since USA is consistently ranked #1 in care and access

no right wing rhetoric here I'm not republican , this is just simple mathmatics

[xxbckiexx]

This is what caught my eyes"Most Americans will now be required to have health insurance or pay a fine. Larger employers will be required to provide coverage or risk financial penalties. Total individual out-of-pocket expenses will be capped, and insurers will be barred from denying coverage based on gender or pre-existing conditions."

where did you see this?

[Vteckidd]

if you work for a company w/ over 50 employees who isn't offering healthcare currently strapped for cash they aren't built for a recession anyway. my company works on cash alone and we offer healthcare... why? b/c it is ran fiscally responsible where other companies aren't. the notion that 30+ million new consumers to the market is bad is crazy! all private healthcare companies will make money off of this and you are crazy to think other wise.

I guess 300-500k in extra costs is in the example above is chump change. Hey can't make money the rules have changed. They will be told what to charge and now they have to cover more people for LESS money

That's like saying 30million new people will buy a $20000 car from ford but now ford can only charge $10000. It's fuzzy math and you know it

I don't buy the comment that you're not recession proof if you don't provide healthcare. Totally untrue look how many huge institutions have failed. You realize 50 -200 employees is extremely small business right? If people aren't buying they aren't buying period that hurts everyone. Raising costs will hurt everyone

I'll bet you $100 unemployment goes up not down and business site healthcare as th reason. I'll bet you premiums rise too

[Elbow]

where did you see this?

In the article posted, however you can tell he didn't read it all or else he wouldn't of posted that.