I think you may be confused because I am definitely confused by what you're saying, no offenseOriginally Posted by alpine_xj
I think you may be confused because I am definitely confused by what you're saying, no offense
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Shit I know what you mean I was confused about it for a while. This info is straight from the book, and I've found it in other resources as well.
Agnosticism-belief that it is equally likely that God exists or doesn't exist. Agnostics do not attempt to prove the existence of God, because they believe it can never be proven. My problem with agnosticism is that it ignores the factor of probability, so they essentially do not pay any attention to any evidence that God does not exist(or that God does in fact exist).
Atheism-Dawkins outlines different types. No atheist is absolutely certain God exists. This part I don't get personally, but it isn't just Dawkins that says this, the entire atheist community apparently regards belief in God's existence as part of "weak atheism." Even weak atheists, however, believe God's existence to be highly improbable. That's where I fall.
I am NOT agnostic. I definitely do not believe God exists, but I can't rule it out totally. If I was agnostic, I pretty much wouldn't have an opinion on whether or not God is real because they essentially don't care.
Maniak- I'm not lost. I understand how it would seem that way, maybe this cleared it up.
Alright so here's my understanding of what you're saying, in much simpler terms: "I definitely do not believe God exists, but I can't rule it out totally."
Is kind of like saying "I know for a fact that 2+2=4, but it could be 5..."
Just seems like you aren't as confident in your beliefs as you think you are. I can see how you wouldn't put yourself into the agnostic category but, it doesn't sound like you are a full blown atheist either.
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Look at it this way, Dawkins describes himself exactly as I do. We are both basically positive God is not real, but it technically cannot be proven even though evidence against God is pretty overwhelming. It's strange, I know.
I really have to laugh at that narrow minded statement.
Evidence totally surrounds us and is even within us of a thoughtful creative power beyond human comprehension. Saying it isnt so doesnt make it all go away. lol...
Of course...if one subscribes to philosophies without really honestly looking for evidence I would imagine it quite hard to then 'see' any evidence.
Its easy to ignore all of it (evidence) when its ones base desire to do so.
PLEASE elaborate. You're so hard-set on laughing at him because the evidence is "so obvious", and yet you give ZERO examples. I challenge you to produce ONE piece of evidence to support the presence of the omniscient Christian God... and I don't mean "Oh, well look how intricate and beautiful this plant is and how huge the universe is", etc, becuase that is not in any way evidence that there is a God. It is evidence that our world and universe is indeed very complex, and I can certainly understand how people could interpret that as a probable reason to believe in a divine God, but its NOT evidence. Saying "oh theres evidence but its beyond human comprehension" is a complete cop-out, because if something can't even be fathomed, it certainly can't be identified as evidence.
There IS, however, that grilled cheese sandwich with the Virgin Mary's face - now THAT is a sign
All jokes aside... Seriously, amuse me. Show me the proof.
What he said.PLEASE elaborate. You're so hard-set on laughing at him because the evidence is "so obvious", and yet you give ZERO examples. I challenge you to produce ONE piece of evidence to support the presence of the omniscient Christian God... and I don't mean "Oh, well look how intricate and beautiful this plant is and how huge the universe is", etc, becuase that is not in any way evidence that there is a God. It is evidence that our world and universe is indeed very complex, and I can certainly understand how people could interpret that as a probable reason to believe in a divine God, but its NOT evidence. Saying "oh theres evidence but its beyond human comprehension" is a complete cop-out, because if something can't even be fathomed, it certainly can't be identified as evidence.
There IS, however, that grilled cheese sandwich with the Virgin Mary's face - now THAT is a sign
All jokes aside... Seriously, amuse me. Show me the proof.
And when I say no evidence that there is a God, I mean in the sense of how God is presented by various religions. Imo it is ridiculous to believe in a supreme intelligent being as defined by Christianity, Hinduism, etc... and for that there is no proof whatsoever. If you have any, then please divulge it to the world because religions have been trying for a couple thousand years now and it hasn't worked out.
I, personally, think the Prophecy of Babylon in the book of Isaiah is pretty good evidence of some sort of divination. Is it proof of God? Eh, not specifically but it's pretty strange how a prophecy (that was documented hundred of years before the actual event) were able to tell where the battle would happen, how it would happen, why it would happen, how there would be so few casualties on one side, and even gives the commanding general's identity by name. It also specifically states that no city or structure would be erected in it's place and, as you know, Babylon is still a desolate wasteland to this day.
Just something I found to be interesting.
DNA, Physics, and Mathematical Probability - just to start. Study it and determine the mathematical probability that it all happened by chance. They are almost completely impossible (nothing is completely impossible).PLEASE elaborate. You're so hard-set on laughing at him because the evidence is "so obvious", and yet you give ZERO examples. I challenge you to produce ONE piece of evidence to support the presence of the omniscient Christian God... and I don't mean "Oh, well look how intricate and beautiful this plant is and how huge the universe is", etc, becuase that is not in any way evidence that there is a God. It is evidence that our world and universe is indeed very complex, and I can certainly understand how people could interpret that as a probable reason to believe in a divine God, but its NOT evidence. Saying "oh theres evidence but its beyond human comprehension" is a complete cop-out, because if something can't even be fathomed, it certainly can't be identified as evidence.
There IS, however, that grilled cheese sandwich with the Virgin Mary's face - now THAT is a sign
All jokes aside... Seriously, amuse me. Show me the proof.
Now that does not say that it is the Christian version of God, or actually a "deity", rather, the odds of this universe coming into existence without some sort of external influence are very unlikely mathematically.
Also, just because something is beyond your capability to comprehend it, does not mean that no one else can.
Belief in the Christian God is completely taken on faith, and nothing else. Likewise, belief that the universe spontaneously came into being from nothingness must also be taken on faith, as it cannot be completely proven or disproven currently.
Thats certainly what people of that confirmed philosophy are definitely hoping. The whole accountability/judgment thing would be a bitch.
They would prefer just to 'skip' it....IF possible.
Thats exactly what drives that method of thinking....If somehow God doesn't exist, then we are free to do as we see fit within our own mind without any eternal accountability.
The real problem with that philosophy, in addition to ignoring any physical or spiritual evidence, is that just acknowledging there could be a God, or might be, or accepting it once 'proven' in ones mind...won't be enough to save one from 'judgment'...IF there is a God...because to the naysayer sufficient 'proof' will come 'too late'...likely not at all, nothing will ever be convincing enough...as its the strong desire of such philosophy to disbelieve to begin with...in order to escape the consequences. A belief in a God would then require action...and thats where the problem is. Man would rather do his own will then the will of any God.I definitely do not believe God exists, but I can't rule it out totally.
The GOD I believe in is not christianity's version nor any other religions portrait of GOD.
But there does appear to be something divine about this world, and our universe. Like there's was a thought process behind it's creation. Like someone/something created it. Like GOD, whether it is a guy/girl, or whether GOD is several GOD's. Either way, something has to be out there, and whether one believes it or not, his existence doesn't depend on your faith, he is there, and transcends all.
Sometimes on a nice sunny day I'll just look up at the sky and feel like something is up there
Everything makes too much sense and is too balanced out. The food chain, how it takes a man and woman to reproduce. EVERYTHING. I don't believe all of this could've just happened.
But whether there isn't a GOD or there is, one hting is for sure, ALL religion is garbage, and completely false. It's the biggest scam ever invented.
I disagree. Religion in itself is a relatively good thing. It's when business and corrupt individuals get involved that things spin out of control. I'm not a fan of organized religion because it tends to produce too many sheep and zealots, but I have no problem at all with a religion or personal beliefs.
I think religion is good on an individual level because it gives people something to cling to, and generally religion teaches followers to be good people. HOWEVER, religion from a holistic perspective is, in my opinion, a horrible thing. Religion has by far spawned more bloody wars and deaths than any other institution. Its an isolating element that polarizes the world and pits those of one belief against another. Essentially these people are blindly adhering to what they're told, and letting nothing stand in their way... if it means mercilessly slaughtering those who are clearly "wrong" in their beliefs, then by god, they'll do it.
Oftentimes Christians hear that and say, oh well CHRISTIANS dont do that. And you know, modern Christianity isnt a violent religion overall (or at least they dont START it anyways... Bush is a very devout and representative christian and hes led countless to death in the current war), but Christianity is historically a notoriously brutal doctrine. Crusades, anyone? Mass extermination of "heathens" because of differing beliefs is unacceptable for ANY religion.
You make some good points. But I still feel all religion is bad. You're right when you said religion gives people something to cling to, emotional solice, but that's all religion offers. And not every one needs it. I feel it is a coping mechanism to deal with the stress of everyday life, much like a drinker would take to a bottle, one might take to a prayer. While that is better than drnking, lol, whether you pray or not it will not change the outcome of anything.
I believe religion is one of the foundations for corruption. As are money, and politics.
You make some good points. But I still feel all religion is bad. You're right when you said religion gives people something to cling to, emotional solice, but that's all religion offers. And not every one needs it. I feel it is a coping mechanism to deal with the stress of everyday life, much like a drinker would take to a bottle, one might take to a prayer. While that is better than drnking, lol, whether you pray or not it will not change the outcome of anything.
I believe religion is one of the foundations for corruption. As are money, and politics.
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