I acknowledge the possibility of it, but I don't believe it to be true at all really. The notion of a God has no effect on my life whatsoever. I just don't rule it out completely because personally I think it's ignorant to do that. It doesn't mean I'm not atheist, because I'm definitely not agnostic.Originally Posted by Maniako
nobody said they believe in satan. they're talking about the institution of "satanism" in and of itself, and the doctrines thereof (which were just listed) have nothing to do with the biblical antagonist satan figure.
I think you may be confused because I am definitely confused by what you're saying, no offense
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So why even put yourself in a category?
If you're not fully aware of what your stand on this is then why make a conclusion without first knowing? I think that I'm in between but tend to lean more towards atheism at times. You're obviously lost.
I think you read too much into it.
just wondering. because to acknowledge the existence of Satan, but not God (in a biblical sense) is a bit of a contradiction. a lot of a contradiction.
just clarifying.
...uh. did you even read my post? lol
i haet u so hard chris.
but i wub j00, variable banana timing and electronic peel control.
LOL
Shit I know what you mean I was confused about it for a while. This info is straight from the book, and I've found it in other resources as well.
Agnosticism-belief that it is equally likely that God exists or doesn't exist. Agnostics do not attempt to prove the existence of God, because they believe it can never be proven. My problem with agnosticism is that it ignores the factor of probability, so they essentially do not pay any attention to any evidence that God does not exist(or that God does in fact exist).
Atheism-Dawkins outlines different types. No atheist is absolutely certain God exists. This part I don't get personally, but it isn't just Dawkins that says this, the entire atheist community apparently regards belief in God's existence as part of "weak atheism." Even weak atheists, however, believe God's existence to be highly improbable. That's where I fall.
I am NOT agnostic. I definitely do not believe God exists, but I can't rule it out totally. If I was agnostic, I pretty much wouldn't have an opinion on whether or not God is real because they essentially don't care.
Maniak- I'm not lost. I understand how it would seem that way, maybe this cleared it up.
Alright so here's my understanding of what you're saying, in much simpler terms: "I definitely do not believe God exists, but I can't rule it out totally."
Is kind of like saying "I know for a fact that 2+2=4, but it could be 5..."
Just seems like you aren't as confident in your beliefs as you think you are. I can see how you wouldn't put yourself into the agnostic category but, it doesn't sound like you are a full blown atheist either.
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It's Maniac. LOL
She's a maniac, MAAAAAAAANIAC on the floor
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Look at it this way, Dawkins describes himself exactly as I do. We are both basically positive God is not real, but it technically cannot be proven even though evidence against God is pretty overwhelming. It's strange, I know.
Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.
Until I see it presented as such, I will be inclined to disbelieve.
Thats certainly what people of that confirmed philosophy are definitely hoping. The whole accountability/judgment thing would be a bitch.
They would prefer just to 'skip' it....IF possible.
Thats exactly what drives that method of thinking....If somehow God doesn't exist, then we are free to do as we see fit within our own mind without any eternal accountability.
The real problem with that philosophy, in addition to ignoring any physical or spiritual evidence, is that just acknowledging there could be a God, or might be, or accepting it once 'proven' in ones mind...won't be enough to save one from 'judgment'...IF there is a God...because to the naysayer sufficient 'proof' will come 'too late'...likely not at all, nothing will ever be convincing enough...as its the strong desire of such philosophy to disbelieve to begin with...in order to escape the consequences. A belief in a God would then require action...and thats where the problem is. Man would rather do his own will then the will of any God.I definitely do not believe God exists, but I can't rule it out totally.
The GOD I believe in is not christianity's version nor any other religions portrait of GOD.
But there does appear to be something divine about this world, and our universe. Like there's was a thought process behind it's creation. Like someone/something created it. Like GOD, whether it is a guy/girl, or whether GOD is several GOD's. Either way, something has to be out there, and whether one believes it or not, his existence doesn't depend on your faith, he is there, and transcends all.
Sometimes on a nice sunny day I'll just look up at the sky and feel like something is up there
Everything makes too much sense and is too balanced out. The food chain, how it takes a man and woman to reproduce. EVERYTHING. I don't believe all of this could've just happened.
But whether there isn't a GOD or there is, one hting is for sure, ALL religion is garbage, and completely false. It's the biggest scam ever invented.
I really have to laugh at that narrow minded statement.
Evidence totally surrounds us and is even within us of a thoughtful creative power beyond human comprehension. Saying it isnt so doesnt make it all go away. lol...
Of course...if one subscribes to philosophies without really honestly looking for evidence I would imagine it quite hard to then 'see' any evidence.
Its easy to ignore all of it (evidence) when its ones base desire to do so.
I've been meaning to pick that up.
I disagree. Religion in itself is a relatively good thing. It's when business and corrupt individuals get involved that things spin out of control. I'm not a fan of organized religion because it tends to produce too many sheep and zealots, but I have no problem at all with a religion or personal beliefs.
PLEASE elaborate. You're so hard-set on laughing at him because the evidence is "so obvious", and yet you give ZERO examples. I challenge you to produce ONE piece of evidence to support the presence of the omniscient Christian God... and I don't mean "Oh, well look how intricate and beautiful this plant is and how huge the universe is", etc, becuase that is not in any way evidence that there is a God. It is evidence that our world and universe is indeed very complex, and I can certainly understand how people could interpret that as a probable reason to believe in a divine God, but its NOT evidence. Saying "oh theres evidence but its beyond human comprehension" is a complete cop-out, because if something can't even be fathomed, it certainly can't be identified as evidence.
There IS, however, that grilled cheese sandwich with the Virgin Mary's face - now THAT is a sign
All jokes aside... Seriously, amuse me. Show me the proof.
I think religion is good on an individual level because it gives people something to cling to, and generally religion teaches followers to be good people. HOWEVER, religion from a holistic perspective is, in my opinion, a horrible thing. Religion has by far spawned more bloody wars and deaths than any other institution. Its an isolating element that polarizes the world and pits those of one belief against another. Essentially these people are blindly adhering to what they're told, and letting nothing stand in their way... if it means mercilessly slaughtering those who are clearly "wrong" in their beliefs, then by god, they'll do it.
Oftentimes Christians hear that and say, oh well CHRISTIANS dont do that. And you know, modern Christianity isnt a violent religion overall (or at least they dont START it anyways... Bush is a very devout and representative christian and hes led countless to death in the current war), but Christianity is historically a notoriously brutal doctrine. Crusades, anyone? Mass extermination of "heathens" because of differing beliefs is unacceptable for ANY religion.
Exactly! Any form of organized religion is a fraud. It was merely a form of early government, ethics/morals training, or peace keeping if you will in the days before organized law enforcement. I wouldn't have a problem with people finding solice in it, if it did not generate hatred or superior feelings over people of a different religion or none. There are wars that continue, and have been for decades all because of peoples false beliefs. I'm not saying there isn't a god, or creator but if you believe he had a son named Jesus that was sent to earth you're brainwashed just like millions of other people.There might or might be some supernatural entity that created everything, that is impossible to prove/dissprove. But religion, especially christianity is joke, and christianity is a rip off of egyptian mythology. Christianity has ripped off of so many religions it's just a big joke. Do some research, it's true.
The ONLY THING RELIGION OFFERS IS INTANGIBLE EMOTIONAL SOLICE FOR THOSE THAT REQUIRE IT, IT SOLVES NOTHING, IN FACT IT DOES QUITE THE OPPOSITE, IT CREATES PROBLEMS.
Using the term "brainwashed" is a bit harsh and unjustified I think.
Why is okay to accept the belief of a God or gods, but not okay to believe in a divine act or presence? I mean, it's perfectly fine for a deity to create the world and all existing creatures but for him to have a son is just too far fetched, right?
What he said.PLEASE elaborate. You're so hard-set on laughing at him because the evidence is "so obvious", and yet you give ZERO examples. I challenge you to produce ONE piece of evidence to support the presence of the omniscient Christian God... and I don't mean "Oh, well look how intricate and beautiful this plant is and how huge the universe is", etc, becuase that is not in any way evidence that there is a God. It is evidence that our world and universe is indeed very complex, and I can certainly understand how people could interpret that as a probable reason to believe in a divine God, but its NOT evidence. Saying "oh theres evidence but its beyond human comprehension" is a complete cop-out, because if something can't even be fathomed, it certainly can't be identified as evidence.
There IS, however, that grilled cheese sandwich with the Virgin Mary's face - now THAT is a sign
All jokes aside... Seriously, amuse me. Show me the proof.
And when I say no evidence that there is a God, I mean in the sense of how God is presented by various religions. Imo it is ridiculous to believe in a supreme intelligent being as defined by Christianity, Hinduism, etc... and for that there is no proof whatsoever. If you have any, then please divulge it to the world because religions have been trying for a couple thousand years now and it hasn't worked out.
I, personally, think the Prophecy of Babylon in the book of Isaiah is pretty good evidence of some sort of divination. Is it proof of God? Eh, not specifically but it's pretty strange how a prophecy (that was documented hundred of years before the actual event) were able to tell where the battle would happen, how it would happen, why it would happen, how there would be so few casualties on one side, and even gives the commanding general's identity by name. It also specifically states that no city or structure would be erected in it's place and, as you know, Babylon is still a desolate wasteland to this day.
Just something I found to be interesting.
Just in case folks want to follow up on this, a pretty good website is: http://www.infidels.org
It is very secular, but a lot of the conversation that occurs is half decent.
I'm agnostic, but several of their recommended readings are always interesting, too.
Again, some here demand 'evidence' of a God when they are in fact living with such evidence within them. The very demand of evidence is laughable. Its all AROUND US.
One can START by considering one minuscule item....say the endocrine system of the human body. The extremely delicate nature of the balance of body chemistry where just one minor detail being off screws up and/or kills the whole thing. Study that awhile.....Then add to that the millions of other lifeforms and THEIR delicate systems, all which must be in harmony with each other for life to continue...how each one fits perfectly within the system...and on and on. Eventually we'll get around to details within the earths foundation that are evidence of instant creation etc but for now just start with the stupidly obvious.
But of course...one might say...this all came about accidentally?? By chance???? Yeahhhhhhhh sure. Now thinking that is some faith if I ever saw it. Talk about faith in the face of evidence otherwise! LOL..
The list of EVIDENCE is virtually endless. One may prefer to read into that evidence what conclusion makes them happy...BUT to suggest that there is no evidence is plainly stupid.....and WISHFUL THINKING put forth by people who prefer that there be no God/Creator and subsequent accountability.
Also...using the fact that man has free moral choice to act as evidence that there is no God is seriously flawed reasoning. That again is another piece of evidence that the Creator God of the Bible just may exist.
Please dont take any of this as an personal attack against anyone who might be atheist. I fully understand the typical reasons that persons often embrace that belief beyond a hope that there is no accountability. In my experience most have a reason...that typically being the misuse of religion and/or distortion of it.
I know what you're getting at, but personally I believe in evolution and that things did in fact grow and change from tiny insignificant organisms to produce what we are today. I have a big problem with the idea that God is the proverbial kid with a magnifying glass standing over an anthill. I do not think the Earth was created with human beings as a part of it, nothing has been found that points to any evidence of human life ever existing until fairly recently, considering the age of the Earth. If there is in fact, a creator, which I've stated is not impossible and I have not ruled it out, I wouldn't like to view it in the aspect that religion has put forth in that the Earth simply popped up with human life included. I don't believe in the Gods of religions because quite simply the way God is presented makes him/her/it to be a childish and maniacal douchebag with no concerns other than fulfilling self interest and power. It's not about accountability, it is about exclusively cherishing the life that we are given and not wasting it on living it to God's standards in fear of our day of judgement. I would rather value the time I am given here than spend it waiting for a supposed eternal life and being accountable for fulfilling God's wishes.Again, some here demand 'evidence' of a God when they are in fact living with such evidence within them. The very demand of evidence is laughable. Its all AROUND US.
One can START by considering one minuscule item....say the endocrine system of the human body. The extremely delicate nature of the balance of body chemistry where just one minor detail being off screws up and/or kills the whole thing. Study that awhile.....Then add to that the millions of other lifeforms and THEIR delicate systems, all which must be in harmony with each other for life to continue...how each one fits perfectly within the system...and on and on. Eventually we'll get around to details within the earths foundation that are evidence of instant creation etc but for now just start with the stupidly obvious.
But of course...one might say...this all came about accidentally?? By chance???? Yeahhhhhhhh sure. Now thinking that is some faith if I ever saw it. Talk about faith in the face of evidence otherwise! LOL..
The list of EVIDENCE is virtually endless. One may prefer to read into that evidence what conclusion makes them happy...BUT to suggest that there is no evidence is plainly stupid.....and WISHFUL THINKING put forth by people who prefer that there be no God/Creator and subsequent accountability.
Also...using the fact that man has free moral choice to act as evidence that there is no God is seriously flawed reasoning. That again is another piece of evidence that the Creator God of the Bible just may exist.
Please dont take any of this as an personal attack against anyone who might be atheist. I fully understand the typical reasons that persons often embrace that belief beyond a hope that there is no accountability. In my experience most have a reason...that typically being the misuse of religion and/or distortion of it.
read it loved it
Its just a bodykit
You make some good points. But I still feel all religion is bad. You're right when you said religion gives people something to cling to, emotional solice, but that's all religion offers. And not every one needs it. I feel it is a coping mechanism to deal with the stress of everyday life, much like a drinker would take to a bottle, one might take to a prayer. While that is better than drnking, lol, whether you pray or not it will not change the outcome of anything.
I believe religion is one of the foundations for corruption. As are money, and politics.
You make some good points. But I still feel all religion is bad. You're right when you said religion gives people something to cling to, emotional solice, but that's all religion offers. And not every one needs it. I feel it is a coping mechanism to deal with the stress of everyday life, much like a drinker would take to a bottle, one might take to a prayer. While that is better than drnking, lol, whether you pray or not it will not change the outcome of anything.
I believe religion is one of the foundations for corruption. As are money, and politics.
Do you believe having a personal religion is a bad thing? Is Deism bad? Or do you think mainly more widespread religions are "bad"? I wouldn't say religion is a foundation of corruption, but that human involvement can cause it, instead of it being a rooted principle.
DNA, Physics, and Mathematical Probability - just to start. Study it and determine the mathematical probability that it all happened by chance. They are almost completely impossible (nothing is completely impossible).PLEASE elaborate. You're so hard-set on laughing at him because the evidence is "so obvious", and yet you give ZERO examples. I challenge you to produce ONE piece of evidence to support the presence of the omniscient Christian God... and I don't mean "Oh, well look how intricate and beautiful this plant is and how huge the universe is", etc, becuase that is not in any way evidence that there is a God. It is evidence that our world and universe is indeed very complex, and I can certainly understand how people could interpret that as a probable reason to believe in a divine God, but its NOT evidence. Saying "oh theres evidence but its beyond human comprehension" is a complete cop-out, because if something can't even be fathomed, it certainly can't be identified as evidence.
There IS, however, that grilled cheese sandwich with the Virgin Mary's face - now THAT is a sign
All jokes aside... Seriously, amuse me. Show me the proof.
Now that does not say that it is the Christian version of God, or actually a "deity", rather, the odds of this universe coming into existence without some sort of external influence are very unlikely mathematically.
Also, just because something is beyond your capability to comprehend it, does not mean that no one else can.
Belief in the Christian God is completely taken on faith, and nothing else. Likewise, belief that the universe spontaneously came into being from nothingness must also be taken on faith, as it cannot be completely proven or disproven currently.
It's actually easier to disprove evolutionary theory than religion. Evolution involves finite observations, while religion only requires faith. Evolutionary theory as it currently exist is fatally flawed, as many observations poke huge holes in it. Granted, it is still an amazing hypothesis, and was written in a time when we did not have the power to observe and calculate as we do today. I am sure that it will be rewritten again and again as they gather more data. Only with observation and time can they determine if they wish to stick to a theory.
Theory this theory that.
When it comes to a scientific theory, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory#Science it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Or that it's a theory with no evidence to back it up. Evolution, the big bang, they're all events that 'could've' taken place and just because someone says that it covered in flaws doesn't disprove it. Big bang - http://www.deusdiapente.net/science/bbt.php
Lemme add something else.
A lot of people may say that evolution has yet to be observed. Well, so much for THAT argument, eh? http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...n-the-lab.html
I mean, if you guys want to see a monkey give birth to a human.
Then the type of evolution that you guys are looking for just can not be observed. And asking for it would be idiotic.
It'll be pretty retarded to say that everything happened by chance and that everything was created by nothing. I understand why people will argue this. It's dumb and just doesn't make sense. But saying that the 'God' mentioned 'in' the bible was responsible for all of 'this' is also pretty dumb.Again, some here demand 'evidence' of a God when they are in fact living with such evidence within them. The very demand of evidence is laughable. Its all AROUND US.
One can START by considering one minuscule item....say the endocrine system of the human body. The extremely delicate nature of the balance of body chemistry where just one minor detail being off screws up and/or kills the whole thing. Study that awhile.....Then add to that the millions of other lifeforms and THEIR delicate systems, all which must be in harmony with each other for life to continue...how each one fits perfectly within the system...and on and on. Eventually we'll get around to details within the earths foundation that are evidence of instant creation etc but for now just start with the stupidly obvious.
But of course...one might say...this all came about accidentally?? By chance???? Yeahhhhhhhh sure. Now thinking that is some faith if I ever saw it. Talk about faith in the face of evidence otherwise! LOL..
The list of EVIDENCE is virtually endless. One may prefer to read into that evidence what conclusion makes them happy...BUT to suggest that there is no evidence is plainly stupid.....and WISHFUL THINKING put forth by people who prefer that there be no God/Creator and subsequent accountability.
Also...using the fact that man has free moral choice to act as evidence that there is no God is seriously flawed reasoning. That again is another piece of evidence that the Creator God of the Bible just may exist.
Please dont take any of this as an personal attack against anyone who might be atheist. I fully understand the typical reasons that persons often embrace that belief beyond a hope that there is no accountability. In my experience most have a reason...that typically being the misuse of religion and/or distortion of it.
Your example is that of a bacterium having a mutation, not the creation of a new species - they are still bacterium. There is a huge difference between the two. There are lots of mutations in this world, in fact, plenty of humans have them also. But that does not mean that you suddenly can go form homo sapiens to homo erectus. In fact, they can't even map all the genetic differences between the 2 species yet.
Show me a genetic change from one species to another. That is the core belief that one species can give birth to a new improved species. Show me one species that you can definitively show transformation through natural genetic mutation. Science has yet to find an observable link between 2 species as such. Currently, all "links" are not substantiated by genetics. They have yet to show that a naturally occuring genetic mutation improves a species, and can be passed on to future offspring, to the point of creating a new species.
On this, I understand your point completely. It is not necessarily the Christian God that created everything - if you are using scientific observation.
Any belief in a deity is just that - faith. And that is up to the individual.
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